posted June 13, 2016 11:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Astra:

You can have all of the gun laws you want, but only law-abiding people will obey these laws. Criminals are not going to say "oh! This is a gun free zone, so I better not bring my gun here. I have to find another way to kill these people." Criminals [b]don't obey laws. That's what makes them criminals. If a criminal wants to become a mass shooter, then they will find a way to do so.

[/B]

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By that logic, there should be no laws (on any subject) at all.

I'd rather take my chances against a knife or even a 6 shooter type pistol instead of an AR-15 that shoots 30 bullets in less than 30 seconds (or whatever the actual number is).

posted June 13, 2016 12:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Astra:
You can have all of the gun laws you want, but only law-abiding people will obey these laws. Criminals are not going to say "oh! This is a gun free zone, so I better not bring my gun here. I have to find another way to kill these people." Criminals [b]don't obey laws. That's what makes them criminals. If a criminal wants to become a mass shooter, then they will find a way to do so.

That being said, I feel terrible for all of the victims and their families in Orlando. They were all innocent and were expecting a night of fun, not death and destruction. Unfortunately, I think it's only a matter of time before this happens again on U.S. soil.

[/B]

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Yes, Astra. Well said, as always!

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posted June 13, 2016 03:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by DopGang:
Do Not forget.... the Unibomber, the anthrax that was distributed in the mail, the Boston bombing, the Oklahoma City bombing, and 9-11.
None involved guns at all that we can be sure of.
Among numerous other, smaller incidents involving individuals or 5-10 people that never made headlines and so not many are aware of.

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But assault weapons should be banned. There is no justification for letting these be available to anyone. As of now, people can order them through the mail, as far as I know. They can go to a store and legally purchase them. That should be a no-no.

posted June 13, 2016 05:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ilunatique:
These are all just events coordinated so that they can eventually enact martial law, gun control, and total control. Can't trust police, FBI, or media to tell you the truth. The world is all a big scene.

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posted June 13, 2016 05:29 PM            

Btw, just FYI, the deadliest school massacre in the US wasn't even done by a gun. While I'm not against AR-15s being banned completely, and stricter measures applied to those who wish to own and operate firearms of any kind, even if it were managed it wouldn't stop things like this. Sooner or later, the methods would change (similar to how Israel stopped school shootings--very different from school shootings in the USA, btw, which means the same solution won't necessarily work--by arming teachers with military training, and the terrorists targeting the schools then switched to suicide bombers instead, that is treat the symptom only and the disease will keep on ravaging you), though it might be awhile as I can't help notice how unimaginative and incompetent most would-be mass murderers are.

posted June 13, 2016 05:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ilunatique:
These are all just events coordinated so that they can eventually enact martial law, gun control, and total control. Can't trust police, FBI, or media to tell you the truth. The world is all a big scene.

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"...But I can't help wondering why these New World Order types should bother with an armed takeover. I mean, considering how nowadays people are slugging away at two and three jobs to make ends meet, how Mr. and Mrs. Average American are working until mid-May every year just to pay their federal income tax, and then after those they got to fork over sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, and surcharges, not to mention all the hidden expenses passed on in day-to-day prices jacked up by licenses fees and endless streams of regulations from OSHA and all the other two-bit government regulatory agencies.

"By the time Mr. and Mrs. Citizen are through they've surrendered 75% of their earnings to the bureaucracy. Seems to me the NWO boys have already got you right where they want you."

"No, no, no!" Kenway said, his face reddening as he shook his head. "An armed takeover! That's how it will happen! That's how they'll take away our freedoms and make us slaves, make us property!"

"As I see it, that's pretty much what you already are. If and when this takeover comes, the only difference will be you'll no longer be able to kid yourself that you're not property." --F. Paul Wilson, Conspiracies

More on this:
http://youtu.be/Xbp6umQT58A?t=8m33s

posted June 13, 2016 06:28 PM            

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Originally posted by Delilah423:
While I understand the appeal of the "if more people had guns they could have stopped this" argument, it simply isn't supported by the evidence. The more guns that exist in a population, the more people die from gun violence whether accidental, suicides, or murders. Very few people have the expertise to defend against automatic weapons that shoot dozens of bullets in seconds. If a heavily armed citizenry helps, America would have the lowest number of mass shootings in the world. Instead, we have the highest.

And there is plenty of evidence that gun control helps; it is simply false to state it does not. I'm not for banning all guns, but military assault weapons that have no purpose other than killing people in war should not be in the hands of anyone (except the military and certain SWAT teams).

Gun control can't prevent all murders, but it certainly can make mass murder more difficult and reduce the number of deaths.

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quote:

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Originally posted by sunflower-moon:
Agreed! Anything that can reduce gun violence, even if it only prevents one death, should be looked at! Not to mention the fact that if we did have proper gun laws this guy not only wouldn't have been able to purchase an assault rifle but he wouldn't have been able to purchase weapons in the first place since he was on the terrorist watch list.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TensionEmpire:
Guns are meant to shoot at ppl it is symple, more guns more ppl shot!

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posted June 13, 2016 06:57 PM            

I'm bisexual and this mass shooting made me incredibly depressed, but more determined to march in pride parade this week. I will never go back into hiding. I may be in a heterosexual relationship but that does not diminish my bisexual identity. This was a hate crime plain and simple. Please give the LGBT community support.

That's all I will say

posted June 13, 2016 09:08 PM            

That being said, firearms should never be allowed in an establishment serving alcohol with the exception of a well trained security staff. Unfortunately, most security staff are paid around $10 per hour and do not have active shooter training.

I have worked in many nightclubs and was part owner of a music venue for a few years. I'm very familiar with these dynanmics.

I am an ally, grew up in a gayborhood, and have a preteen child who is not heteronormative. I haven't hurt this horribly since the Newtown, Connecticut massacre of children (my child was of that age).

I'm hearing chatter Omar Mateen was a regular at Pulse. Self loathing gay man? I may be wrong, but it is not unheard of.

I'm interested in seeing his progressed chart at first and then a synastric event chart.

posted June 13, 2016 11:05 PM            

Hate. It will use any weapon -- words, knives, character assassination. This man's homophobia was enough to drive him to kill. That is why he targeted this club. It is hate that drives one to this degree of madness, and possibly madness that opens the door to it.

Incompetence. The US government knew about this guy and could have prevented him from getting weapons of this sort since he was on the terrorism watch list.

Greed. It made your weapons. We can complain all we want about the military-industrial complex, but capitalism American style likes to make lots and lots of guns, and explosives, and 'spy' gear for people who fancy themselves battle ready, or those who are engaged in paramilitary dress up for grown-ups (so-called militias). If we want to stop the military industrial complex, we have to do it first at home. Which brings us around to ...

Karma.

The USA is going through the progression of Pluto contra-parallel natal Venus and Mars.

Power struggles, war, violence -- and a resulting values shift (Venus). The Venus end of this progression is being more emphasized now. What will come of it? We know the USA must change to a more balanced way, but with its position of dominance on the world scene, there is little motivation.

Things will get worse before they get better. I hope we are at the 'worst' but I suspect Americans have not suffered enough yet.

posted June 13, 2016 11:15 PM            

Light a candle http://www.gratefulness.org/light-a-candle/

posted June 14, 2016 06:12 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ilunatique:
These are all just events coordinated so that they can eventually enact martial law, gun control, and total control. Can't trust police, FBI, or media to tell you the truth. The world is all a big scene.

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Very true.
Unfortunately most fear or are even still too comfortable where they are which makes it difficult to expand their mind and see the truth behind decades of bs propaganda

posted June 14, 2016 07:02 AM            

Fellow Floridians, let's pray for no copycats

I work in an airport so this concerns me greatly

quote:

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Originally posted by Astra:
You can have all of the gun laws you want, but only law-abiding people will obey these laws. Criminals are not going to say "oh! This is a gun free zone, so I better not bring my gun here. I have to find another way to kill these people." Criminals [b]don't obey laws. That's what makes them criminals. If a criminal wants to become a mass shooter, then they will find a way to do so.

That being said, I feel terrible for all of the victims and their families in Orlando. They were all innocent and were expecting a night of fun, not death and destruction. Unfortunately, I think it's only a matter of time before this happens again on U.S. soil.

[/B]

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posted June 14, 2016 02:49 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
I honestly don't know ~ I hate violence ~ but I like to think there is some truth in the saying, "An armed society is a polite society." Seriously if he went into a bar in my neck of the woods and tried that, he probably would've gotten shot before it became a shooting spree.

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Girl! I hate violence too , we can probably compete on who hates violence more lol.. I hate war and torture, I truly have a big big problem with it and with all violence in general...

But yes gun control just doesn't work so why do people keep insisting on this as a solution? they think that this would magically make this problem go away.

posted June 14, 2016 03:21 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by hypatia238:
Girl! I hate violence too , we can probably compete on who hates violence more lol.. I hate war and torture, I truly have a big big problem with it and with all violence in general...

But yes gun control just doesn't work so why do people keep insisting on this as a solution? they think that this would magically make this problem go away.

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No one thinks it's magically going to make the problem go away? The point is that if we banned assault rifles, and made the vetting process more complex for those with a mental illness history or those who are on a watch list, it would be more difficult for them to acquire the weaponry to carry out their attacks.

Absolutely everything that can be done to possibly reduce deaths attributed to gun violence/terrorist attacks/whatever the case may be should at least be considered. Even if it's only one life that's saved. I don't think gun control is the answer to all these problems. The true solution is far more complex and would involve a serious upheaval of the current bigotry and hate against different ethnicities, races, religions, sexual orientations, etc. that we experience these days. I don't think anyone knows how to really address that in a way that will show an immediate effect (and, really, I think it will take years, if not decades, to see improvements) so all "solutions" have been focused on dealing with the side effects of the real problem, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. There should be more focus on the actual root of the problem, though. It's just a hard issue to address due to it's complexity. Just my two cents.

posted June 14, 2016 06:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sunflower-moon:
No one thinks it's magically going to make the problem go away? The point is that if we banned assault rifles, and made the vetting process more complex for those with a mental illness history or those who are on a watch list, it would be more difficult for them to acquire the weaponry to carry out their attacks.

Absolutely everything that can be done to possibly reduce deaths attributed to gun violence/terrorist attacks/whatever the case may be should at least be considered. Even if it's only one life that's saved. I don't think gun control is the answer to all these problems. The true solution is far more complex and would involve a serious upheaval of the current bigotry and hate against different ethnicities, races, religions, sexual orientations, etc. that we experience these days. I don't think anyone knows how to really address that in a way that will show an immediate effect (and, really, I think it will take years, if not decades, to see improvements) so all "solutions" have been focused on dealing with the side effects of the real problem, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. There should be more focus on the actual root of the problem, though. It's just a hard issue to address due to it's complexity. Just my two cents.

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posted June 14, 2016 09:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by sunflower-moon:
No one thinks it's magically going to make the problem go away? The point is that if we banned assault rifles, and made the vetting process more complex for those with a mental illness history or those who are on a watch list, it would be more difficult for them to acquire the weaponry to carry out their attacks.

Absolutely everything that can be done to possibly reduce deaths attributed to gun violence/terrorist attacks/whatever the case may be should at least be considered. Even if it's only one life that's saved. I don't think gun control is the answer to all these problems. The true solution is far more complex and would involve a serious upheaval of the current bigotry and hate against different ethnicities, races, religions, sexual orientations, etc. that we experience these days. I don't think anyone knows how to really address that in a way that will show an immediate effect (and, really, I think it will take years, if not decades, to see improvements) so all "solutions" have been focused on dealing with the side effects of the real problem, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. There should be more focus on the actual root of the problem, though. It's just a hard issue to address due to it's complexity. Just my two cents.

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posted June 14, 2016 09:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soren:
the true solution is world unity. canada and the US merging. I dont want to merge. But they deserve to. their country is over populated and high-strung.

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posted June 14, 2016 10:36 PM            

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Originally posted by TensionEmpire:
I agree with u
canada and us merging? like north america one country? what country is overpopulated? USA or Canada?
but hey, we are alredy united hahaha

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