posted December 12, 2016 08:49 PM            

*wave*

posted December 12, 2016 09:02 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by maira:
For Faith

...but you do sound critical, and it's ok, I understand; I looked at the second thread you posted; and when I say "looked", I mean literally that, I looked at it, I cannot read it, it hurts my eyes, Amor and Cupido; no one with a minimal knowledge of astrology would ever take that seriously; never; the question is - why would you?

---

I like asteroid astrology but come at it from a totally different angle than Ami does.

My thoughts here: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum35/HTML/006296.html

quote:

---

Originally posted by maira:
Of course, not to sound critical. In the trenches of my pluto transit, I learned that everything that bugs us ( ranging from mild annoyance to raging madness) is a projection

---

Tr Pluto still conjunct my sun, 0.31° orb if my birth time is correct. Tr Pluto square my Jupiter with only 0.17° orb; quincunx Mars 0.17° orb.

I see what you mean but still think certain issues can be differentiated and addressed in a manner appropriate to their specific nature. It's not all just a blob of my own projections.

quote:

---

Originally posted by maira:
; and frankly, the charlatan in me is smiling at that post. And she also makes money from that; and it is not my problem. I'll just keep on pressing skip until she makes me worth my time.

---

posted December 12, 2016 09:24 PM            

Ya think?

------------------
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posted December 12, 2016 09:34 PM            

Still an iceberg.

posted December 12, 2016 10:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Yes, this is a good point. I suppose the proposal is to categorise Astro 2.0. into 2 separate forums.
...

What do you feel would help Gemini?

---

Hmmm...

One thing I've noticed in my career with computers and file servers and networks and the like... Computer networks are like living organisms. They grow. They evolve. Parts that were once useful become a burden to carry into the next iteration. A network with a file server and 5 workstations grows to 3 specialized servers and 15 workstations. Then a new server takes over the duties of some but the old ones are kept because some function couldn't be transfered. It's the same with folders in your own computer or email (just look at your Outlook or Gmail sometime...

Perhaps instead of adding more subforums, it's time to look at archiving the lot and starting with a fresh set. Perhaps divide by intent... Say... General Info, Specific Chart Questions, Theory Craft, Hanging Out for example. Not that I'm specifically saying these categories, just giving an example.

The point is, perhaps we should give some thought to more than just adding on here.

The other side of it is that all the redesign in the world doesn't do any good if the users, especially the casual users, don't know and don't care to learn where to post. I'm sure that's part of why everything gets posted to 2.0. It has to be simple and obvious. The other part is response time. I'm not interested in posting in Personal Readings if nobody (or nobody but the tarot readers) responds to my astrology request. I'm going to post the next one in 2.0.

posted December 12, 2016 10:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Hi GB

*wave*

---

posted December 12, 2016 11:50 PM            

Honestly, I don't know that adding another forum or section will solve anything. Maybe its good to achieve some kind of consensus about what is expected of those doing readings or offering interpretation: re: ethics and errors/corrections.

So why not discuss it and come to a consensus and petition Randall to make it a standard?

By the way, I AM an professional astrologer. I come into this forum using my real name and putting my real reputation as an astrologer on the line. The worldwide web is my office and these forums my break room and water cooler.

I'll remind folks that Linda Goodman was a very spiritual person who believed that Love overcomes all. The focus of her life's work as a writer and astrologer seems to have been understanding others, loving them, growing in self-awareness, and succeeding in a purposeful life. Maybe some contemplation of that would help us here.

posted December 13, 2016 04:41 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
Personally, I believe that everyone should aim for accuracy and truthfulness when interpreting astrology. I also think that if someone does make a mistake or something of that nature, that they apologize and amend the problem. Also, that criticism should be helpful and polite. Criticism always sucks, but the key is to see it as helpful and to try and become more knowledgeable.
Just my 2 cents.

---

This.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b] it looks like I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.

Ya think?

[/B]

---

Shush Ami, you don't understand what the fuss is all about. You are like Trump, and it's all fun and games until it isn't - he looked terrified at the meeting with Obama, he must have been thinking "I can't believe they bought it", and not in a gloating way, trust me. You want to become an authority? Then start taking yourself seriously.

The key to integrating those Gemini energies of yours is Saggittarius energy, seeing the big picture; and a constant searching for the truth. A gemini who realizes that the truth matters is a gemini who mastered himself. Until then, you'll just feel bad that people don't understand you/like you/condone you. It's gotta hurt.

posted December 13, 2016 06:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gemini Blues:
Hmmm...

One thing I've noticed in my career with computers and file servers and networks and the like... Computer networks are like living organisms. They grow. They evolve. Parts that were once useful become a burden to carry into the next iteration. A network with a file server and 5 workstations grows to 3 specialized servers and 15 workstations. Then a new server takes over the duties of some but the old ones are kept because some function couldn't be transfered. It's the same with folders in your own computer or email (just look at your Outlook or Gmail sometime...

Perhaps instead of adding more subforums, it's time to look at archiving the lot and starting with a fresh set. Perhaps divide by intent... Say... General Info, Specific Chart Questions, Theory Craft, Hanging Out for example. Not that I'm specifically saying these categories, just giving an example.

The point is, perhaps we should give some thought to more than just adding on here.

The other side of it is that all the redesign in the world doesn't do any good if the users, especially the casual users, don't know and don't care to learn where to post. I'm sure that's part of why everything gets posted to 2.0. It has to be simple and obvious. The other part is response time. I'm not interested in posting in Personal Readings if nobody (or nobody but the tarot readers) responds to my astrology request. I'm going to post the next one in 2.0.

Just things to think about...

---

Thank you for sharing this Gemini. You make a good point about functionality and how it is sometimes warranted to simply archive and redesign. I like the idea of condensing and making descriptions/standards clear. I am thinking of forum development like writing a paper - you have a series of drafts, with each draft condensing further until the salient points are emphasised and clear.

posted December 13, 2016 06:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mergoatsun:
Personally, I believe that everyone should aim for accuracy and truthfulness when interpreting astrology. I also think that if someone does make a mistake or something of that nature, that they apologize and amend the problem. Also, that criticism should be helpful and polite. Criticism always sucks, but the key is to see it as helpful and to try and become more knowledgeable.
Just my 2 cents.

---

posted December 13, 2016 06:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kannon McAfee:
There's been a lot of good discussion here.

Honestly, I don't know that adding another forum or section will solve anything. Maybe its good to achieve some kind of consensus about what is expected of those doing readings or offering interpretation: re: ethics and errors/corrections.

So why not discuss it and come to a consensus and petition Randall to make it a standard?

By the way, I AM an professional astrologer. I come into this forum using my real name and putting my real reputation as an astrologer on the line. The worldwide web is my office and these forums my break room and water cooler.

I'll remind folks that Linda Goodman was a very spiritual person who believed that Love overcomes all. The focus of her life's work as a writer and astrologer seems to have been understanding others, loving them, growing in self-awareness, and succeeding in a purposeful life. Maybe some contemplation of that would help us here.

---

Kannon,
a consensus of ethical conduct from this discussion to communicate to Randall is what I was hoping for. If this can be rolled out then perhaps new forums wouldn't be required. Although I think the discussion about new forums was also to address the fact that the forums aren't really functioning as optimally as they could be, but yes, this could be addressed with agreed standards that are perhaps stickied in the relevant forum.

posted December 13, 2016 07:02 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
[b] it looks like I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.

Ya think?

[/B]

---

posted December 13, 2016 07:08 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cinnamon sky:

Otherwise, I know I'm very new here, but I'd like to add my view on this.

I see astrology as a blend between science and art, logic and intuition, as some said above.
And also, as others said above, I think that the responsibility for taking in and discerning information is individual, and how everyone digests it, that's their own business. Again, if I look around I see loads of information everywhere, that's the age we live in, and yeah, it's overwhelming, and chaotic. But I believe that this has in itself the amazing opportunity and push towards everyone taking back the authority to themselves and realising that they have the power and the responsibility to decide and own what they believe in, and not rely on an outside authority imposing knowledge on them. I think everyone finds their own teacher every time they need a lesson. And sometimes that lesson is that you need to research and discern yourself to find your own "truth".

Now, on a more specific level, if there is a need for a more advanced forum section, sure, by all means, go ahead, that sounds great.
I would vote for keeping this (or some) section as it is now though, you know, free and open. I like that we can discuss astrology and other stuff, life experiences, whatever, in the same time, under the same roof, of course, an astrological roof. And then everyone can take away their own conclusions. I love that.

Also, yeah if someone has something to say or have the need to correct some information, of course. I will do it as well, when I feel the need to. That's cool. Also I hate cold jokes that make fun of people. And I will always speak up when I see something like that. This is what I believe in.

Otherwise I think change has already happened, just by having these discussions, in an organic way. People get their own conclusions and they decide who and what to believe in.

---

posted December 13, 2016 07:26 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Thanks for sharing Maira. So, do you feel that the problem is more a lack of personal responsibility at the level of the individual astrologer, and that instead of the site creating clear standards, the astrologer should improve their methods?

You know, I agree with this. The problem is that if individuals won't change their methods, then we must look to the environment to see if through changing it, we can encourage a change in methods.

And I don't feel this is all about Ami. I feel this would be a significant step in the evolution of LL, for astrology becoming more respectable and research becoming more concrete.

---

not addressed to me, but I think that if a site want to ensure integrity of data, solid research prestige, etc, it muss do something to ensure that. this is like thinking that if you do not have police nobody will commit crime. Law enforcement exist for one reason.

personally i never visited this site searching for academic astrology, i use astrology as a hobby and my expectations are not high regarding this site. however, I do understand (especially from the professional astrologers here) that if this website want to be perceived in the external and internal community as much more than a place people come to speculate without base then standards should be in place and be enforced.

do we want all the sections of the place to be academic? not me. I wish an area like this one where I can exchange ideas without having to go to the exact page where i read something to be able to quote the source. a more freely discussion forum. but, do I want all discussions to be like that? hum... I would prefer to see articles with solid standards and be able to ask question to the author. to enrich my knowledge! so as I have said previously and some others here, I would like two sets of standards: 1 for forum discussion (etiquette rules apply) and one for articles posted (with academic standards). and both type of sections with disclaimers differentiating both.

then we have the issue of beginners versus advanced. at this point, better to have just 1 all level discussion (brainstorming) forum and forget about beginners versus advance forum. at the end everybody will always come to advance no matter how much they are pushed toward beginners.

posted December 13, 2016 07:40 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Violets:
Really, I think that anyone here who is charging money for their services should probably be held accountable to a different set of structures and guidelines, regardless of which forum they're posting in.

Not to be all crazy controlling about it, but it would REALLY solve a lot of problems, in my opinion.

What those structures and guidelines would look like would be an interesting thing to talk about.

Disclaimers when stating opinions that cannot be supported with credible sources would be a good idea for professionals, I think.

Just my thoughts, though.

---

the only counterargument I have about this proposal is that where do you put a line between professional and non professional. should we say that standards apply only to professionals? then the rest (me included) will not need to follow these standards?

I am just afraid that if we apply same academic standards to any forum section it will become too rigid. and if we apply only these standards to professional charging for services then standards will be personalized and not equal for everybody. I would like to be able to discuss things in a sort of speculative fashion in one part of the forums. Would that be possible in a forum with academic standards? To be honest, I dont know and I am open to be convinced.

posted December 13, 2016 07:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
also think it is a good idea to keep a forum simply for astrological discussion, such as Astro 2.0. and have the two learning forums on either side - Beginners and Advanced.

---

If I understand correctly we are talking of 3 forums. 1 for learning beginners, 2 general discussion or brainstorming, 3 learning advanced.

I am right to assume that the standards (academic or similar) would apply to forum 1 and 2 since they are aimed toward guidance and learning. instead number two forum would be a free space for speculation and bringing about ideas that can become part of a research or something more serious to be published either in 1 or 3 forum?

posted December 13, 2016 07:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Creating standards that govern articles and posts claiming researched "facts" would apply across the board, so it wouldn't be marginalising one person.

That's the good thing that can come out of conflict - improvements, recommendations, honing and fine-tuning

---

posted December 13, 2016 08:01 AM            

This is what I think. Faith has a witch hunt for me. She sees it as her "purpose" to kick me off here and she does not care if she is banned to do so. That is why she is escalating. She has people of low character joining her because humiliating and demeaning someone like they do me defines low character. She is a bully but cowers when she is criticized by people such as Nordic Soul, CF, Cinnamon and others.

Here is what I think of the "verifying"

I know you were trying to be an amazing person and you really are, Voix, but it would ruin the whole site.

I have to be honest. I think it is a terrible idea.

I am saying it straight because I try to talk straight.

I would never come here because I come for FUN, SHARING, FRIENDS, WARMTH and a COMMUNITY.

I have a BA from Duke and a MA from University of Va.

I have seen all the egghead work I want to see.

If people have esoteric astrology, I don't bother them.

If I have my simple, fun, teaching astrology, it shows a MISERABLE, COWARDLY person who will bother me--try to get me kicked off etc

I am the head of many Astrology groups on other sites with about 6000 people, who love what I do.

All the while Faith is bombarding me with insults and disparaging, I have had so many loving and appreciative things said to me that I had to really crack up.

BUT, I love LL and I love Randall and I love most people on here.

I don't "hate' Faith.

I just will not play along in her plan to kick me out.

I have made that clear.

She thinks when I ignored her I was weak.

I knew that it I stood up and posted how she treated me, she would do this, and I hoped to avoid it.

However, when she started calling me mentally ill, a liar, which she has done many, many times and making her want to throw up, I thought she should not be allowed to do so, anymore.

I write things I find on the web, in various places, in which there are DIFFERENT Ascendants listed for people.

I mixed up one couple in synastry.

I see people are exemplifying ASCs, being classic for Ascendants, as I clearly state, too i.e being prototypical of an Ascendant or another placement, not necessarily having it.

That is what there "ostensible" issue is with me

Can you believe it?

I have over 4000 articles. I am an earth void. I have many typos. I read voraciously and have found various info on the web on people's Ascendants.

I will tell you the real truth. When Faith et al attack me, I GET STRONGER, not weaker.

I will stay at LL if it is free like it is.

If it becomes a police state in any way, I will leave because I am Like Nordic soul.

If people cannot discern for themselves, they need to move to a communist country.

That is it.

I am super glad nothing got closed so people could see what I have been silently dealing with with Faith for well over a year.

Love you guys LOADS!!

------------------
Want to Read Simple, Fun,Sexy Articles on Astrology? Check Me Out, DUDE.

posted December 13, 2016 08:03 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Yes, this is a good point. I suppose the proposal is to categorise Astro 2.0. into 2 separate forums. One for exploring astrology and generating ideas (would probably get the most traffic) and another for advanced or deeper discussion, articles and planning/conducting/sharing research.

Which one I would choose to visit would depend on my motives.
Do I have an idea I want to share?
Do I have an aspect I don't understand?
Have I developed a theory I want to discuss or test?
Do I want deep discussion or brain-storming?

What do you feel would help Gemini?

---

posted December 13, 2016 08:10 AM            

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted December 13, 2016 08:21 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
I second this. so to be clear, you mean the learning forum which are supposed to be with these academic standards. in your proposal forum 1 and 3. and 2 would be a brainstorming forum.

---

Yes, I think this could be effective.
Although, a less intrusive idea, would be along the lines of what others have suggested about the members coming to agreement of standards, and which forums they should govern, and having these clearly stated in the descriptions.

I personally prefer revamping the forums into the 1., 2. and 3. as stated before, but several people have made valid points about the lack of traffic to certain forums and difficulties finding what they want already. It may be that archiving and condensing the forums as someone else suggested before could work.

-- Perhaps Beginners could be an article forum with agreed standards regarding accuracy, with the articles open to discussion for the purposes of learning.

-- Astro 2.0. could remain as exploratory forum.

posted December 13, 2016 08:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Voix

This is what I think. Faith has a witch hunt for me. She sees it as her "purpose" to kick me off here and she does not care if she is banned to do so. That is why she is escalating. She has people of low character joining her because humiliating and demeaning someone like they do me defines low character. She is a bully but cowers when she is criticized by people such as Nordic Soul, CF, Cinnamon and others.

I have a BA from Duke and a MA from University of Va.

If people have esoteric astrology, I don't bother them.

All the while Faith is bombarding me with insults and disparagements, I have had so many loving and appreciative things said to me that I had to really crack up.

However, when she started calling me mentally ill, a liar, which she has done many, many times and making her want to throw up, I thought she should not be allowed to do so, anymore.

I mixed up one couple in synastry.

---

Faith is not doing a witch hunt on you- no one of "us" (who you are referring to? Most of us don't even have contact outside LL) but you are nothing but playing the victim card and calling us bullies when your lies are revealed. You lied multiple times on here, you even lied about your own birth chart!

And so, calling others cowards, bullies, being of low character is no bullying and no witch hunt?!

What does holding academic degrees anything to do with this discussion and your lies? For my part, i too hold an academic degree. This doesn't make me an astrologer.

The others did not care to diligently read the reasons why some said that you lied and that you are not integer. They just eat your victim card

posted December 13, 2016 08:35 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Voix

This is what I think. Faith has a witch hunt for me. She sees it as her "purpose" to kick me off here and she does not care if she is banned to do so. That is why she is escalating. She has people of low character joining her because humiliating and demeaning someone like they do me defines low character. She is a bully but cowers when she is criticized by people such as Nordic Soul, CF, Cinnamon and others.

Here is what I think of the "verifying"

I know you were trying to be an amazing person and you really are, Voix, but it would ruin the whole site.

I have to be honest. I think it is a terrible idea.

I am saying it straight because I try to talk straight.

I would never come here because I come for FUN, SHARING, FRIENDS, WARMTH and a COMMUNITY.

I have a BA from Duke and a MA from University of Va.

I have seen all the egghead work I want to see.

If people have esoteric astrology, I don't bother them.

If I have my simple, fun, teaching astrology, it shows a MISERABLE, COWARDLY person who will bother me--try to get me kicked off etc

I am the head of many Astrology groups on other sites with about 6000 people, who love what I do.

All the while Faith is bombarding me with insults and disparagements, I have had so many loving and appreciative things said to me that I had to really crack up.

BUT, I love LL and I love Randall and I love most people on here.

I don't "hate' Faith.

I just will not play along in her plan to kick me out.

I have made that clear.

She thinks when I ignored her I was weak.

I knew that it I stood up and posted how she treated me, she would do this, and I hoped to avoid it.

However, when she started calling me mentally ill, a liar, which she has done many, many times and making her want to throw up, I thought she should not be allowed to do so, anymore.

I write things I find on the web, in various places, in which there are DIFFERENT Ascendants listed for people.

I mixed up one couple in synastry.

I see people are exemplifying ASCs, being classic for Ascendants, as I clearly state, too i.e being prototypical of an Ascendant, not necessarily having it.

[b]That is what there "ostensible" issue is with me

Can you believe it?

I have over 4000 articles. I am an earth void. I have many typos. I read voraciously and have found various info on the web on people's Ascendants.

I will tell you the real truth. When Faith et al attack me, I GET STRONGER, not weaker.

I will stay at LL if it is free like it is.

If it becomes a police state in any way, I will leave because I am Like Nordic soul.

If people cannot discern for themselves, they need to move to a communist country.

That is it.

I am super glad nothing got closed so people could see what I have been silently dealing with with Faith for well over a year.

Love you guys LOADS!!

[/B]

---

I think others also share your concerns that LL shouldn't be an academic site across the board, as this would limit exploration.

But I think that having standards of a level of accuracy for teaching materials, such as articles, and also at least having one section where we *can* be academic and do hard research appeals to several people. And these people are from both sides of any issue between yourself and Faith, so their opinions don't appear to be driven by the conflict itself, but by their needs as individual members.