posted December 23, 2016 07:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cottonball:

You cannot be serious. First someone says women like being raped, now we like being kidnapped. Wonderful, just wonderful

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posted December 23, 2016 07:55 PM            

For example, in a previous post, you quoted just a single sentence and said, "Finally, something we agree on" and dismissed everything else. And I didn't see that prior post because it posted as I was commenting. But, it still shows how rigidly you're clinging to this idea that you're right instead of taking in what other people are saying.

IF you really understood and agreed with what I said when I said "Persephone is a symbol of surviving abuse", you wouldn't still be dragging out this argument. Then, you would be able to see this subject differently and come to another conclusion, instead of endlessly repeating yourself. So, I don't really believe you when you say we agree.

You still are taking this myth WAY TOO LITERALLY. Nobody is saying that a Plutonian relationship means that it's okay to be raped, that consent is not allowed, etc. I mean, how many times do I have to say this? Myths are meant to be taken as symbolism. Myths about Hercules have also been used in astrology as comparisons or metaphors. Does that mean that someone is saying that a person with super-strength can perform miraculous feats because they have a certain placement? No.

I think your own personal bias is preventing you from looking at this topic objectively. Again, I understand the discomfort. But, Plutonian subjects are uncomfortable. You really don't get it and it has nothing to do with our Mercuries because you're responding to a few others the exact same way: jumping to conclusions about what they mean or not really listening to what they say. I think you need to study this subject more before you speak on it.

posted December 23, 2016 08:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:
Nobody is saying that a Plutonian relationship means that it's okay to be raped, that consent is not allowed, etc. I mean, how many times do I have to say this?

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posted December 23, 2016 08:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cottonball:
this is really creepy and I’m tired of seeing it.

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I just went through 5 sites. Not a single one of them romanticized it (unless I count the one of a feminist retelling where Persephone actually elopes with Hades as a ploy to escape her controlling parents and become a queen, which sounds like a reimagining that you'd like), it's seen as symbolic of the the process of life and death and rebirth (of course the Greeks would phrase it the way they did). So I wonder if I'm on my fifth site where I haven't yet seen it romanticized that a man abducts and rapes a child, then what sites are you visiting that you're seeing this so much as to become creeped out by it?

posted December 23, 2016 08:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I just went through 5 sites. Not a single one of them romanticized it (unless I count the one of a feminist retelling where Persephone actually elopes with Hades as a ploy to escape her control

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posted December 23, 2016 08:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cottonball:

Flippant and distasteful. Those astrologers chose to use a mythical story of an abused girl as symbolism to consenting relationships. It's disgusting and misogynistic. I'm sorry you feel the need to defend them.

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Your use of "consent" makes it sound like you think the usage of the Persephone myth glorifies a lack of consent. If not, why would you say it?

Newflash: abuse happens in consenting relationships. In fact, it could be even more prevalent in consenting relationships. And not just rape. Emotional/verbal abuse and physical abuse. And it can happen to anyone and when you least expect it, in a situation that once seemed great and lovely. Metaphorically, that is in line with Persephone, who is pulled down into the Underworld when she least expects it.

So, what is your point exactly? Also, abuse knows no gender. Even though the abused person in this myth is a woman, how is it misogynistic if it is being used to speak of survivors of abuse of both sexes?

posted December 23, 2016 08:11 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:
makes it sound like you think

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posted December 23, 2016 08:17 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cottonball:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the89freespirit:
[b] makes it sound like you think

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[/B][/QUOTE]

I'm still waiting for you to respond to anything in this thread beyond going back to the same point over and over.

What you want to do is just vent your outrage and force your opinions on to other people. Many people have made many excellent points and asked for a further discussion. Yet, you just want to cling to your one overly simplistic and unoriginal idea, all while ignoring their comments. Again, you chose one sentence out of an entire post because you really have nothing else to say.

By the way, if you're trying to call me out for projecting on to you, don't you think this whole thread is a projection in and of itself, since no one is "romanticizing" anything but because you're all offended, you're convinced they are?

posted December 23, 2016 08:21 PM            

"Those astrologers chose to use a mythical story of an abused girl as symbolism to consenting relationships. It's disgusting and misogynistic."

Final point: She doesn't think persephone should be considered "good", cause some astrologers use it and compare to normal people, consenting normal relationships, and act like it's all special and holy (the aspect). saying persephone and hades is a special relationship, therefore the synastry if you have those is a good thing.

She is saying it should be recognized that it's a bad thing, maybe.

posted December 23, 2016 08:26 PM            

The reality of life is that some relationships can be really messed up. The Persephone-Hades dynamic can represent that. But, if the Scorpio/Pluto person is conscious enough and empowered enough, maybe they can grow from that experience and emerge from the Underworld to have their "6 months in the light."

Dividing everything up into "all good" or "all bad" is way too simple-minded. I have been through some terribly upsetting stuff in my life. But, I would not be the person I am today and have the positive traits I have today without that.

I think that's something that really only a Scorpio/Pluto influenced person can understand. So, I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't have a strong influence of that sign in her chart. To others, it can just seem "creepy" or depressing or wrong. To the Plutonian person, it's a rite of passage (as strange as that sounds) because it ends up enriching you and strengthening you.

That's what being a survivor of abuse is about, anyway. So, really, the OP is just talking in circles.

posted December 23, 2016 08:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by soren:

^^^ i dont know if astrologers actually do act like its a special awesome relationship in synastry (hades to persephone) but i'm assuming that's what she is suggesting they say. i wouldnt know i dont look up them. interpretations.

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posted December 23, 2016 08:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cottonball:
Thank you for your contribution to this post the89freespirit. Varying points of views are a good thing in discussions, everyone should be allowed an opinion You seem distressed and I hope I didn't offend you. I stand by my opinions, you're free to stand by yours. It's all good.

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Hmmm. Okay. It's a public message board. I'm well aware that everyone is free to voice an opinion, as is everyone else on here. So, that's really not necessary nor is thanking me for my contribution.

And I honestly don't think you've been that open to the discussion. But, I'm definitely not offended, though. Disagreements happen on here all the time. It'll soon be forgotten.

posted December 23, 2016 08:33 PM            

So from cottonball:

Persepona-hades, is looked at as a special bond (if u have it synastral )

to her: no that is disgusting. they had a terrible bond and should be looked at as a bad thing

freespirit: they are a bad thing, they represent your unleashed anger

and they represent bad relationships, that happen all the time.

most astrologers apparently: it is a sacred relationship. if u have persephone-hades it is AMAZING

posted December 23, 2016 08:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
I've often found this interesting when I see such positive interpretations of Pluto, considering the raping. Albeit, some do warn of possessiveness and stalking, but overall it is seen as a good thing to have Pluto aspects in synastry.

I think if interpretations focused more on the transformational energy of these myths, it would make more sense, however, like someone mentioned, it is really questionable how much transformational power a female had in those days. TBH, it was pretty much make the best of it or suck it up, unless she was a queen, and even then, she would defer to a king in most cases.

I wonder if it is time to rewrite the stories of the stars. A modern astrology if you like. Women have come a long way since the myths, where we now actively speak out and protect ourselves against subjugation and violence. It's a shame for us to continue to linger under the shadow of stories of slavery in times when we did not have a voice. Yes, there is still abuse, rape, violence and subjugation, however, we are no longer silent - and that changes a lot.

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I feel you and I have questioned too how good is it truly to have Pluto active in synastry or composite bc it does draw you in strongly making you feel attached quickly and very attracted but it also brings to the surface so you can see clearly all your psychological baggage and often involves some kind of trauma whether it is the actual death of the relationship which impacted you so much it felt traumatic or it brings out aggressiveness in one or both of the partners, or obsessiveness, compulsions or extreme jealousy ECT...But it forces you to deal with your issues and if done so leads to tremendous growth leading to a shedding of your skin so to speak, it does make you confront your darkness/psychological issues and it is a painful hard process bc change is hard and growth is hard hence the saying 'growing pains.'

posted December 23, 2016 08:43 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:
Hmmm. Okay. It's a public message board. I'm well aware that everyone is free to voice an opinion, as is everyone else on here. So, that's really not necessary nor is thanking me for my contribution.

And I honestly don't think you've been that open to the discussion. But, I'm definitely not offended, though. Disagreements happen on here all the time. It'll soon be forgotten.

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posted December 23, 2016 08:46 PM            

Just because a relationship is described as this "intense, passionate meeting of destiny" does not mean that people are saying this is a good thing. There is such a thing as being drawn to someone, thinking it's love, when it's really actually destroying you. But, in the process of being destroyed, you're rebuilt and you figure out how to transform yourself and your life. So, that relationship is very fateful and important. But, not because this is going to be the love of your life who helps you find ultimate happiness.

Sometimes, the most important relationships are the ones that break your heart into a million pieces or that result in a lot of pain. Not because they are "good" but because you, hopefully, learn so much from it.

posted December 23, 2016 08:47 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:
Again, it's not that simple.

Just because a relationship is described as this "intense, passionate meeting of destiny" does not mean that people are saying this is a good thing. There is such a thing as being drawn to someone, thinking it's love, when it's really actually destroying you. But, in the process of being destroyed, you're rebuilt and you figure out how to transform yourself and your life. So, that relationship is very fateful and important. But, not because this is going to be the love of your life who helps you find ultimate happiness.

Sometimes, the most important relationships are the ones that break your heart into a million pieces or that result in a lot of pain. Not because they are "good" but because you, hopefully, learn so much from it.

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posted December 23, 2016 08:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cottonball:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the89freespirit:
[b] Hmmm. Okay. It's a public message board. I'm well aware that everyone is free to voice an opinion, as is everyone else on here. So, that's really not necessary nor is thanking me for my contribution.

And I honestly don't think you've been that open to the discussion. But, I'm definitely not offended, though. Disagreements happen on here all the time. It'll soon be forgotten.

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But you disagree, and that's totally fine. I just noticed you were getting a little flustered and decided to rein in my charge! It's all good! [/B][/QUOTE]

I have a very Plutonian Venus. My Venus is in Scorpio, in the 8th house, and conjunct Pluto in Scorpio.

posted December 23, 2016 08:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cottonball:

I'm a Taurus and stubborn as hell

But you disagree, and that's totally fine. I just noticed you were getting a little flustered and decided to rein in my charge!

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quote:

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Originally posted by the89freespirit:
There is such a thing as being drawn to someone, thinking it's love, when it's really actually destroying you. But, in the process of being destroyed, you're rebuilt and you figure out how to transform yourself and your life. So, that relationship is very fateful and important. But, not because this is going to be the love of your life who helps you find ultimate happiness.

Sometimes, the most important relationships are the ones that break your heart into a million pieces or that result in a lot of pain. Not because they are "good" but because you, hopefully, learn so much from it.

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helpful. sure it happens. possibly happened to me one time.

posted December 23, 2016 09:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by cottonball:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by the89freespirit:
[b] Hmmm. Okay. It's a public message board. I'm well aware that everyone is free to voice an opinion, as is everyone else on here. So, that's really not necessary nor is thanking me for my contribution.

And I honestly don't think you've been that open to the discussion. But, I'm definitely not offended, though. Disagreements happen on here all the time. It'll soon be forgotten.

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But you disagree, and that's totally fine. I just noticed you were getting a little flustered and decided to rein in my charge! It's all good! [/B][/QUOTE]

Why would you change mythology to reflect modern times? That's the power of a myth. It has a larger-than-life quality. I mean, if you want to take everything about this story at face value, you also have to believe that someone can be literally swooped down into Hell while still alive and that there is an actual King of Hell named Hades and all the rest of it. It's a story. Its real power lies in what it represents. If that's the case, then Christians might as well change the story of Jesus' crucifixion because people are not literally crucified anymore (and as far as I know, people don't actually rise from the dead three days later).

And of course it's often not a "happy" relationship. But, in all honesty, how many people are really, truly happy in their lives? I think questions like that disturb people because we live in a society that loves to stay shallow and pretend like everything is great. This is a myth that will particularly disturb or offend you if you are too scared of darker, deeper realities. But, it represents archetypes that can still be found in the present day. Just not always so literally. A man would be thrown in jail today for marrying his "child-niece". So, I don't know why you keep insisting on that point, as if that discredits the entire story.

I wasn't riled up, though. And, again, I'm fully aware that it is totally fine to have my own opinion. No need to keep telling me.