posted January 08, 2017 10:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by neptunicity:
Yeah, some just want to see everything in rose colored glasses especially when it comes to themselves. Astrology IS fatalistic. If you can't relate to a certain aspect, it's either it hasn't happened yet or either the relationship was good or bad, so you can't relate to the positive or negative side that didn't play out.

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I interview every client who comes to me and I turn away quite a few, sometimes even half. I don't want to deal with people in denial. I won't do it, if I have a choice.
Sometimes, you don't have a choice lol

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posted January 08, 2017 11:12 AM            

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posted January 08, 2017 12:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by neptunicity:
That's good to know. I assume most astrologers also do that as hobby or passion. Because astrology isn't really mainstream, so they focus on a regular day job.

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Yea, I am blessed. I have total freedom

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posted January 08, 2017 07:39 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yea, I am blessed. I have total freedom

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posted January 08, 2017 10:33 PM            

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posted January 09, 2017 01:47 AM            

So basically anyone that has plants on the angles, especially 1st, 10th where one can come off as powerful, and dominant.

Justin bieber is also very successful... so basically having a polarizing effects on ppl (Pluto in 1st or 7th or MC). Saturn or sun in 10th, where the individual likes to take charge of their destiny will face resistance from the top.

Also moon-Pluto, sun-Pluto people who like to dig out the dirt can have immensely intense effects on others and when these ppl can't cope with these effects, they become angry or resentful.

Venus square Pluto is notorious for having an antagonistic relationship with women.

posted January 09, 2017 03:01 AM            

Both of which I have. I notice that people either love me or hate me, in person. I am very distrustful and private - amplified by my Sun-Pluto and Mercury-Pluto aspects (currently set off by Pluto aspecting my Sun).

posted January 09, 2017 09:23 AM            

My friend, mother and myself have planets at this point and have experienced "hatred" for no apparent reason.

posted January 09, 2017 10:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by theunknown:
Hatred comes from an intense reaction that reflects anger, contempt, sometimes jealousy.

So basically anyone that has plants on the angles, especially 1st, 10th where one can come off as powerful, and dominant.

Justin bieber is also very successful... so basically having a polarizing effects on ppl (Pluto in 1st or 7th or MC). Saturn or sun in 10th, where the individual likes to take charge of their destiny will face resistance from the top.

Also moon-Pluto, sun-Pluto people who like to dig out the dirt can have immensely intense effects on others and when these ppl can't cope with these effects, they become angry or resentful.

Venus square Pluto is notorious for having an antagonistic relationship with women.

Plutonic ppl in general have a tendency to distrust first so others will mirror just that.

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posted January 09, 2017 11:07 AM            

I have sun-square pluto, sun conjunct saturn as well as aries moon (which i do think tend to have antagonistic relationships)

lots of people hate on me but lots of people vouch for me and protect me. I do not have any illusion about me not being a lone island.

posted January 09, 2017 04:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sulkyarcher:
Chiron conjunct the Ascendant is one too. I heard it attracts bullying.

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I have it and never experienced bullying, but bullying wasn't a thing back in my HS years and in my country.

posted January 09, 2017 05:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by theunknown:
Hatred comes from an intense reaction that reflects anger, contempt, sometimes jealousy.

So basically anyone that has plants on the angles, especially 1st, 10th where one can come off as powerful, and dominant.

Justin bieber is also very successful... so basically having a polarizing effects on ppl (Pluto in 1st or 7th or MC). Saturn or sun in 10th, where the individual likes to take charge of their destiny will face resistance from the top.

Also moon-Pluto, sun-Pluto people who like to dig out the dirt can have immensely intense effects on others and when these ppl can't cope with these effects, they become angry or resentful.

Venus square Pluto is notorious for having an antagonistic relationship with women.

Plutonic ppl in general have a tendency to distrust first so others will mirror just that.

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Hm it's quite strange to assume that all instances when people are being "hated" are the fault of the "others" while most instances when people are being "hated" by others are due to serious issues the "hated" has and needs to change when it comes to their social interactions.

While there are exceptions, people don't "hate" others without good reason.

Some people do provoke strong reactions, for good or bad, but the real issue here is that people, as a group, hate TRAITS in others (social behavioral patterns, perceived personality), not people. Anyone can experience the miracle of changing their popularity by changing their behavior. No one will be universally loved, but it is in everyone's hands to experience genuine love, acceptance and popularity in a peer group (it's mostly about choosing these peers and how one treats oneself and the peers).

Good points about the planets on angles though

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted January 09, 2017 07:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by neptunicity:
Astrology IS fatalistic.

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It appears though that we choose our own incarnation and what we will experience, hence our chart. Which makes it the opposite of fatalistic, it's deliberate. Our chart is the clay we need to build our own archetype.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted January 09, 2017 08:12 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Hm it's quite strange to assume that all instances when people are being "hated" are the fault of the "others" while most instances when people are being "hated" by others are due to serious issues the "hated" has and needs to change when it comes to their social interactions.

While there are exceptions, people don't "hate" others without good reason.

Some people do provoke strong reactions, for good or bad, but the real issue here is that people, as a group, hate TRAITS in others (social behavioral patterns, perceived personality), not people. Anyone can experience the miracle of changing their popularity by changing their behavior. No one will be universally loved, but it is in everyone's hands to experience genuine love, acceptance and popularity in a peer group (it's mostly about choosing these peers and how one treats oneself and the peers).

Good points about the planets on angles though

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I don't disagree. I don't think anger as a reaction is by default the reactor's fault. That's be crazy. Justin Bieber himself admitted that the hate was initiated by his behaviors as well,just as an example.

However, if we're speaking in astrology terms, venusians and neptunian tend to be more "popular" because they don't project conpetetive/Martian/Plutonian behaviors.

As a society, we tend to react even more to Martian women.

I'm making these comments assuming that the OP is asking why some individuals are hated more even though they're not exactly more immoral. Why some ppl just attract more hate?

Also some ppl just attract hate from their peer groups but not in a leadership position or vice versa

I'm also presuming that we have many rightful reasons to dislike dictators, criminals, etc

posted January 09, 2017 09:48 PM            

OP is asking about a hypothetical person who is seriously unpopular and hated. Very few of them exist. Lots of people go through life and never found the spotlight but to be seriously hated the whole time is hard, because we all kinda learn from our mistakes and eventually try to avoid these kinds of traumatic experiences.

The types that do not attract "serious" hatred tend to have mercurial, Venusian, jupiterian or solar qualities, where one is willing to look to the right and the left and see how one can fit in or entertain.

The types that do basically reflect a tendency to have full control of their life, either because they are not interested in considering others' interests (martian/uranian), or dislike spontaneity/disorderliness, reflecting a need for control (Saturnian/Plutonian). So their expressions of their preferences provoke a reaction in people.

An example for these cases is Quentin Crisp (Cap sun, pluto conjunct node, venus in 8th, scorpio mars in 7th). He got beaten up his whole life. But with uranus on the MC, being odd is THE way, and don't you dare to question that.

http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Quentin_Crisp

Lots of functional individuals who provoke these types of reactions from others tend to be very popular in certain circles ... So I don't know if the OP's hypothesis still applies.

The non-functional individuals (in cases of serial killers, those with psychopathic tendencies) often do not attract hatred in every circumstance. Lots of them have Neptunian and mutable energies, allowing one to slip away easily.

In general, I'd add too that virtually every chart has its issues. I am in agreement that astrology is not fatalistic but it does reflect a native's energy. Siblings see their childhood differently because they have different personalities. They have different tendencies. One might be more dominant, thus more difficult, but possibly more likely to push oneself to be successful.

People do like to romanticize certain influences like Pluto or Neptune but most of us prefer to hang out with the non-confrontational, easy-going types.

Popularity/hatred is also a part of group-think. Many popular people are not well understood. History has seen figures like Hitler finding their ways to the top, because they finally upped their Pluto and Neptune game when it comes to managing images. And mortal human beings are just looking for a direction, so they give their power to someone who was once a failing, unpopular artist. And if these popular people scapegoat someone else who is a bit too rash, too brave, too unaware, a witch hunt can start very easily.

I never cease to be fascinated by how much hate Anne Hathaway receives. She's not like amazing but is she really that horrible?

posted January 09, 2017 10:00 PM            

Behaviors and energies are disliked and unpopular, not people.

There is a difference between being disliked by an individual and being disliked by peers or a group.

There is something "healthy" and natural in what the mob dislikes and it generally is related to two instances 1. bad or 2. different. It could be both So the astrological instances are likely to be different.
"Bad" is bad for the social norms of that group. The group needs to feel challenged or attacked by the person in some way for the person to experience this kind of "hatred".
"Different" can be anything unusual enough to challenge the norm.
I'm pointing this out because on a personal level, in order to understand and change a situation when we feel unpopular and hated we need to understand what it is about us that rightfully challenges that particular group. Is it something that we could do better? Which of our social trait is dysfunctional? (do we gossip, are we mean, too shy, selfish, arrogant, domineering, fake etc? if we are, you bet the group will dislike us!)
Or it could be that we are being our best, for example, we are promoting new ideas or habits and we will be crucified by the group, but we stick to it because popularity is secondary to the cause, we stick to being heretics.
Or we simply are temporary in the wrong group.
But my point is that it's wrong to approach unpopularity as victimhood.
To be honest, most people that I know who are generally disliked are actually dislikable because of their social behavior. The instances when I felt unpopular, there was a good reason behind them, from the group's POV. (one that I was willing to embrace or not, depending on the situation)

For instance, we mentioned Pluto. While it is true that evolved Pluto energy leads to the ability to face our shadow, but also bring it out in others for purging, just like we do with ourselves, and this triggers screams and fighting and assault or defensiveness, the lower Pluto frequency brings about genuine bullying behavior, envy and jealousy taken to the extreme and overall nasty.

Perhaps it's easier to approach this subject by analyzing third parties then move to ourselves, to see what triggers the group negative response and if the group is "right".

Another thing I want to underline is that app 70% of people I have known to complain about being "unpopular" or even hated are seriously mistaken about it In most cases, they feel this way because they have very high, ambitious or in some instances distorted standards about what it means to be popular or liked. For example, some people consider themselves unpopular when they are not the center of attention, because this is how they picture popularity, for various reasons. Many ambitious kids who were "unpopular" in school feel this way because it reminds them of those moments. On the other hand, shyness and insecurity are the more frequent reasons for someone to exacerbate distortions or dreams of popularity. I am not trying to offend anyone, just explaining my strong belief that our social acceptance is directly proportionate to our social input, also as someone who was a very shy kid for a while, who experienced social dissonance;, but also as a Plutonian who has experienced strong reactions in groups of people. It is normal to be less popular when one is shy or projects any kind of insecurity, Adler has a great theory about it, you don't have to take it ad literam, but you get the idea

"Adler identifies the source of basic mistakes as an “inferiority complex,” which is behaving “as if” one was of lesser stature (emotional, physical, intellectual) than others, and then creating a style of life based on this belief. The inferiority complex is more than just a cognition or an attitude. It is a form of self-centeredness and is self-defeating. If one solely pursues self-originated objectives then one tends to self-isolate and to avoid risk. People have a self-concept, which is one’s belief about who one is. People also have a self-ideal, which is a belief about how one should be. One experiences dissonance between these two ideations. The greater the tension between them, the greater one’s feelings of inferiority, because one is acting primarily to preserve one’s concept of self.

Feelings of inferiority in turn lead to self-aggrandizement and the pursuit of a useless style of life. They result in the promotion of self-interest over social interest. Social interest is more important than individual interest; put slightly differently, the best expression of individual interest is to veer towards social interest. Only after recognizing one’s basic mistakes and taking prophylactic action to mitigate against them can one then segue to a useful style of life. Undeveloped or underdeveloped social interest is evidenced by poor performance of basic life tasks. Reorienting oneself to pursue one’s social interest in turn reorganizes one’s style of life and enables one to avoid committing further basic mistakes. In this way the goal of Adlerian therapy is to eradicate one’s “inferiority complex” and to awaken ones undeveloped or underdeveloped social interest."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Adler

In contemporary terms, the "social interest" is actually finding one's place in the world from a giving position.

In other words, "Be like the Sun and all will see you" (which takes us back to the classics)

Which takes me to the idea that the cherry on top of the mystery (the solution) will be the Sun in the chart.

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted January 09, 2017 10:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by theunknown:
At Leeloo's prompt, I just want to address this question with more formality than thumbing things away via my cell phone

OP is asking about a hypothetical person who is seriously unpopular and hated. Very few of them exist. Lots of people go through life and never found the spotlight but to be seriously hated the whole time is hard, because we all kinda learn from our mistakes and eventually try to avoid these kinds of traumatic experiences.

The types that do not attract "serious" hatred tend to have mercurial, Venusian, jupiterian or solar qualities, where one is willing to look to the right and the left and see how one can fit in or entertain.

The types that do basically reflect a tendency to have full control of their life, either because they are not interested in considering others' interests (martian/uranian), or dislike spontaneity/disorderliness, reflecting a need for control (Saturnian/Plutonian). So their expressions of their preferences provoke a reaction in people.

An example for these cases is Quentin Crisp (Cap sun, pluto conjunct node, venus in 8th, scorpio mars in 7th). He got beaten up his whole life. But with uranus on the MC, being odd is THE way, and don't you dare to question that.

http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Quentin_Crisp

Lots of functional individuals who provoke these types of reactions from others tend to be very popular in certain circles ... So I don't know if the OP's hypothesis still applies.

The non-functional individuals (in cases of serial killers, those with psychopathic tendencies) often do not attract hatred in every circumstance. Lots of them have Neptunian and mutable energies, allowing one to slip away easily.

In general, I'd add too that virtually every chart has its issues. I am in agreement that astrology is not fatalistic but it does reflect a native's energy. Siblings see their childhood differently because they have different personalities. They have different tendencies. One might be more dominant, thus more difficult, but possibly more likely to push oneself to be successful.

People do like to romanticize certain influences like Pluto or Neptune but most of us prefer to hang out with the non-confrontational, easy-going types.

Popularity/hatred is also a part of group-think. Many popular people are not well understood. History has seen figures like Hitler finding their ways to the top, because they finally upped their Pluto and Neptune game when it comes to managing images. And mortal human beings are just looking for a direction, so they give their power to someone who was once a failing, unpopular artist. And if these popular people scapegoat someone else who is a bit too rash, too brave, too unaware, a witch hunt can start very easily.

I never cease to be fascinated by how much hate Anne Hathaway receives. She's not like amazing but is she really that horrible?

---

I was writing myself, and answered to your previous post, didn't see this, many common points here.

I've seen Anne Hathaway in a few group interviews, she is quite obnoxious talkative, informal and overbearing, it can be a professional habit to steal the spotlight, but perhaps people know or can feel that about her?

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted January 09, 2017 10:48 PM            

I want to point out something else too in relations to your point about inferiority complex, which is often seen in immature sun-pluto, or uranian types. When you place yourself in contrast to others and insist that your way is the high way, you are essentially asserting that you lack empathy, or at least some efforts to understand and consider why others are choosing their ways (sympathy).

This perceived lack of empathy provokes people to shove down your throat something that you don't like, because they are mirroring what you are doing to them.

I have seen times and times again that highly plutonian types are very serious about what affect them but much more cruel about what affects others. All the rules about boundaries and respect are tested until others are at the brink of insanity. So all the talk about not crossing the lines with them sounds completely hypocritical.

posted January 10, 2017 12:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by theunknown:
^^^ haha, but from annoyed to hatred is quite a jump to me ...

I want to point out something else too in relations to your point about inferiority complex, which is often seen in immature sun-pluto, or uranian types. When you place yourself in contrast to others and insist that your way is the high way, you are essentially asserting that you lack empathy, or at least some efforts to understand and consider why others are choosing their ways (sympathy).

This perceived lack of empathy provokes people to shove down your throat something that you don't like, because they are mirroring what you are doing to them.

I have seen times and times again that highly plutonian types are very serious about what affect them but much more cruel about what affects others. All the rules about boundaries and respect are tested until others are at the brink of insanity. So all the talk about not crossing the lines with them sounds completely hypocritical.

Those with more easy-flowy charts might not be very "deep" but plutonians rarely admit that these people have more empathy and sympathy for strangers than they do

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Yes, very true, it is normal for all kinds of arrogance to trigger antipathies. I don't think empathy is a concern for what you describe though, but the need to convince or impose oneself against which people rightfully react.

You are right, in order to experience lack of popularity, one has to either be the aggressor (coming on too strong) or the invisible (the shyness example).

Very true that unevolved Pluto energy can make one cruel for the sake of domination. Pluto is the bully, after all. Boundaries are deliberately pushed. And a distinct characteristic of low frequency Pluto and Scorpio energy is exactly this: double standard when dealing with oneself and others (self-indulgence coupled with authoritarianism). This happens when Pluto is over-externalized, not yet internalized. When this happens, Plutonians usually face tough external life events and challenges until they internalize Pluto. There is a higher frequency of Pluto energy where Plutonians are as tough with others as they are to themselves, also on purpose, because Pluto energy brings no concern for empathies and sympathies, but only transformation and change and there can be no boundary to that for Pluto. Pluto's spot is not civil. Empathy and sympathy are not the role of Plutonian energy in one's chart. Other planetary energies will compensate for this part.
Higher frequency Pluto can only happen in connection with deep self-awareness of one's flaws and tangible power for good and Phoenix-like transformation. Otherwise, it translates into power struggles, external destruction and repeated unending life events forcing the native into this Phoenix cycle.

Perhaps the most brilliant part of Adler's theory is the idea that our inferiority complex actually masks our desire to be superior, to stand out, it's greed. It's a form of self-centeredness (when one is busy with what one brings to the group, this dilemma disappears naturally). He describes in the book how shyness emerges when we as children go to kindergarten and expect to be the center of attention just like we are with mommy and daddy and we discover that we actually have to earn love and popularity. The manner in which we process this discovery shapes our social destiny.

Why do you think she is hated? I noticed her "obnoxiousness" myself, if she were to be a friend, but I can't say I hate her or feel people hate her, it's an overstatement, imo. She is a talented, successful, versatile, popular actress, with great roles that I like many others enjoy watching, critically acclaimed as actress and professional, one doesn't have to feel the need to take her home vs hating her

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

posted January 10, 2017 04:18 PM            

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I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...