posted February 10, 2021 08:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chanterelle:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dumuzi:
[B] maybe you're looking for them then 😁

Maybe so... maybe it’s a consequence of being really reluctant to make those kinds of judgments. I never assume that people are static or simple, and I work pretty hard at not taking things personally and assuming the worst, but sometimes I feel like my life is one of those choose-your-own-adventure novels and I’m trying to follow all the potential plot twists at the same time. Instant judgment sounds so simple and easy in comparison, I can almost see the appeal.

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funny i've had this discussion about fate vs free will and life being like a choose your own adventure novel several times over (once for about 12 hours with friends but that was... extreme overkill, literally slept in between and came back to the discussion) though i get it i see it like an all roads lead to rome sort of thing personally

but a few friends see it as a you have x amount of possibilities, book already written you just get choices at certain places for the story

in my view you can choose the path, but some things are just fated and unavoidable, meant to be and will be brought about however you choose to move when choices are available (the entire discussion hinged on one friend insisting free will and fate can't co-exist which everyone else disagreed with, to great lengths, turned out he didn't even believe that he just wanted to discuss it for a book he's writing)

you made me think of being a kid though, folding the pages down to read all the possibilities instead of making a hard choice

i don't take things personally because even if someone has **** against me it's partially going to be about their own **** , or hell maybe it's legit can't please everyone 🤷‍♀️ but in that case i kind of feel like **** 'em, i don't like people who don't like me 😁

that's actually always true i've noticed people who i actively dislike are the ones who have issues with me, there's something in them that doesn't click with me and it's mutual and i'm good with that

though that being said how we can react to others is partially due to our own experiences and where we're at in life, and isn't personal

hard to feel that way when you're going through a hard time with others but true all the same

i don't make assumptions, i can intuit and guess but i always still make it a point to get to know their side of things if the opportunity presents itself

posted February 10, 2021 10:16 PM            

Yes some of these tendencies are innate (maybe all, who's to know) but they play out in human interactions-- they can be reinforced or alleviated based on how we live our lives. And we as human beings, with reasoning and agency can ALWAYS choose to behave in way that is different from how a moon sign (or id if we're getting freudian) would suggest. I've always agreed with the notion that the stars impel but the do not compel. I believe that you can make the best of any placement if you understand it and that there is an inherent duality to astrology. Nothing is all bad or all good.

I agree that BPD can be similar to the scorp moon. Natives are usually so sensitive, so receptive that it almost backfires on them:

"It has long been recognized that individuals with BPD seem to possess an uncanny sensitivity to other people’s subconscious mental content — thoughts, feelings, and even physical sensations...Despite their enhanced empathic ability, many people with BPD have difficulties navigating social and interpersonal situations. Without the ability to regulate their emotions and manage attachment relationships, their hypersensitivity may end up showing up as emotional storms and mood swings (Fonagy, Luyten, & Strathearn, 2011), being easily triggered by stressful situations and a constant fear abandonment and rejection (Fertuck et al., 2009). This phenomenon is known as the "borderline empathy paradox""

I'm gonna log off now so I can decompress and smoke some pot, but if you want to keep arguing tomorrow lmk :P

posted February 11, 2021 02:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chanterelle:
Yeah, I don’t feel like I have much of an issue with that when it’s a one-on-one discussion. It’s really more of a matter of assessing group dynamics, — if something feels off and no one else seems to notice it I get really worried about the accuracy of my own perceptions. Usually I’ll just ask a friend “is it just me, or is there something weird about this?” If they tell me it’s probably just me, I try to listen.
I think you’re right, though, about there being times when you have the freedom to choose and times when things just fall into place no matter what you try to do. When I think about some of the bizarre chains of events that have led me where I am now, it really boggles my mind. Choose your own adventure! When a homeless guy hands you a box full of beads and tells you to take it to Hawaii, what do you do?
(Edit: I suppose I ought to note that I don’t have a Scorpio moon: Mercury, Pluto, Saturn & Venus.)

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i'll ask for confirmation with things too, product of being gaslit as a child

yeah everything that's led me to this point has been pretty crazy honestly, very winding path but i keep following signs seeing where they'll lead

i'm the sort of person who will get signs in a dream or whatever and just see where that goes

it's how i ended up doing hospice work and stuff along with people ive been with a situation im currently in and so on

but they're very odd things as well

also how i ended up learning astrology and so on

posted February 11, 2021 02:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
What I said: "Scorpio moons FEEL A LOT and have often been through some sort of emotional trauma."
What you said in response: "any moon sign can have a traumatic life or a good one, trauma is indicated in many places in a chart, sign is irrelevant"
It implies that I said that a scorpio moon=trauma, when that is in now way what I said. That would be the strawman. Also, I think sign is relevant in the sense that what might just be a really ****** Tuesday in the life of say a Leo moon, might feel like trauma to the scorpio moon.

Yes some of these tendencies are innate (maybe all, who's to know) but they play out in human interactions-- they can be reinforced or alleviated based on how we live our lives. And we as human beings, with reasoning and agency can ALWAYS choose to behave in way that is different from how a moon sign (or id if we're getting freudian) would suggest. I've always agreed with the notion that the stars impel but the do not compel. I believe that you can make the best of any placement if you understand it and that there is an inherent duality to astrology. Nothing is all bad or all good.

I agree that BPD can be similar to the scorp moon. Natives are usually so sensitive, so receptive that it almost backfires on them:

"It has long been recognized that individuals with BPD seem to possess an uncanny sensitivity to other people’s subconscious mental content — thoughts, feelings, and even physical sensations...Despite their enhanced empathic ability, many people with BPD have difficulties navigating social and interpersonal situations. Without the ability to regulate their emotions and manage attachment relationships, their hypersensitivity may end up showing up as emotional storms and mood swings (Fonagy, Luyten, & Strathearn, 2011), being easily triggered by stressful situations and a constant fear abandonment and rejection (Fertuck et al., 2009). This phenomenon is known as the "borderline empathy paradox""

I'm gonna log off now so I can decompress and smoke some pot, but if you want to keep arguing tomorrow lmk :P

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-emotional-intensity/201805/the-unexpected-gifts-inside-borderline-personality
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/science-the-border/200907/borderline-empathy-revisited

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by saying most scorpio moons have experienced trauma you're applying trauma to most scorpio moons like a feature of the moon sign

also trauma generally has a specific meaning (abuse, rape, early death of family members etc and so on) not something arbitrary like what one sign might interpret as trauma over another

if something could be a really ****** tuesday for another person and another person makes that a huge deal it's not the situation that's traumatic itself and trauma would be the wrong word for it if you're speaking from an objective and detached point of view

this boils down to a semantics discussion and you using the word "trauma" in a way i disagree with rather than me building a strawman (which would be an intentional misrepresentation of what was said, at no point have you said something different than "most scorpio moons experience trauma" it's only when you frame trauma in a way no one detached speaking objectively would normally use it that it fits and then it's a nature thing)

i could really go for some weed, have to wait a few days though don't have a connection in the area

drinking just isn't good enough and no pills out of kratom and tired of recreational benadryl

btw never said they only express the negative traits everything has multiple possibilities signs aspects etc, they don't all manifest the same way

posted February 11, 2021 09:05 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chanterelle:
Yay semantics! Framing it in terms of cognitive empathy vs. emotional empathy makes so much sense. If you can feel someone else’s emotional state but don’t have a context for understanding it — or if you haven’t learned to differentiate your own emotions from other people’s — then of course the obvious response would be to make up a story to explain it to yourself.
Re: trauma... I wonder if there’s a different term for the subjective experience. If not, there should be, because if trauma weren’t subjective at all, then people would be basically incapable of hurting one another by accident.

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being hurt by accident or even in general isn't quite the same as trauma unless you're talking about trauma being triggered with **** like cptsd and ptsd (but then that's literally called triggering not traumatizing) , the word trauma doesn't extend to things like someone saying something ****** that kind of hurt but they didn't mean it

the definition of trauma is physical injury in the case of physical trauma, or a deeply disturbing experience like death/rape/abuse etc

it's not "so and so accidentally hurt my feelings the other day" this can suck but it's by no means a traumatic event on par with the actual definition of the word

that's just being hurt, something being ****** etc

but yeah scorpio empathy in my experience is often like bpd empathy to a large scale maybe they can tell what someone else is feeling but it won't extend to them feeling it with them or even necessarily thinking other people's feelings matter as much or more than all of theirs

so it can get distorted and they'll lash out and so on at perceived slights and everything

the whole point in language and using words correctly though is to communicate effectively and "trauma" isn't an arbitrary thing that can just mean whatever someone wants it to, it's not subjective and refers to specific ****

i've never made up a story to explain myself when i've felt what someone else is feeling 🤷‍♀️ i just listen to them and maybe i'll cry with them or something but if i can't level with their **** i don't try

though i've got enough true abuse (all kinds), loss, addiction, severe illness stories etc to go around if it comes down to it

edit: btw i think it minimizes the actual severity of trauma causing events to compare it to something like anything that could be considered just a ****** day to someone or an accidental slight

and that's kind of a ****** thing to do

posted February 11, 2021 11:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
Ok dude. That was slight exaggeration to make a point. But yeah there is such a thing as emotional trauma. Also, emotions are not based on logic. It would be great to be able to just feel a certain way based on objective inputs, but we don’t all feel things the same way. It seems like no matter what I say you want to believe that all scorpios are self absorbed and delusional. You must have had some bad experiences with Scorpios. I hope you’re well.

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i never said there wasn't such a thing as emotional trauma though, i acknowledged it and pointed out what constitutes as the definition of it

mentioned ptsd and cptsd and spoke about the damage gaslighting can cause in this thread

i said it isn't a word with an arbitrary definition

i never said emotions are based in logic either, or that they should be, what i said is trauma refers to something specific

this isn't about my personal life, all i did was say an individual's moon sign doesn't imply they may have been through some sort of trauma (which is literally what you said) and explained that the definition of what constitutes as trauma is something specific

i didn't say all scorpios have only negative traits or anything like that

i've had good and bad experiences with scorpio placements, i said there's no one size fits all thing

you didn't make an actual point though at any rate which is why you're bringing up my personal life now (it has no place here this is an impersonal semantics discussion)

edit: also yeah that's exactly what astrology is for every sign and aspect that's why i made that comparison

posted February 11, 2021 11:39 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
I brought it up because 1. You mentioned your Scorpio ex earlier in this thread in a negative way and 2. You seem very passionate about Scorpios. I was wondering why and made a guess. But you want to keep it semantic, let’s do that.

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it was about semantics

yeah my ex sucked, so? i also have a good friend who's a scorpio moon and a good friend with other scorpio placements who i interact with near daily

i never once said anything about scorpios as a whole, i spoke about the projection tendency and the dangers of thinking you're always right about another person's feelings and what's behind everything they say/do

do you have scorpio placements or some **** ?

edit: well all that and the real definition of "trauma" and why it isn't adequate to use in the context you used it in

going all ad hominem in a discussion about word definitions makes no sense, neither does assuming i only think negatively of scorpio placements when i explicitly stated otherwise

saying emotions can cloud their perceptiveness isn't some attack just a way things manifest in my experience

and when they're perceptive about strangers then apply that to situations where their emotions are clouded it can lead to very real issues with trusting the self over anyone else to a point of detriment

posted February 11, 2021 12:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
I'll show you mine if you show me yours.

The more you respond the more nuance I see in your take.

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😳

chart

your turn

i can speak in ways that come off too general so fair enough, i know that's a habit of mine

posted February 11, 2021 01:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
Let's see if I can get this to work

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jesus that's a lot of 12th house capricorn

posted February 11, 2021 01:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dumuzi:
jesus that's a lot of 12th house capricorn

i saw a chart like yours once, this guy telling everyone he picked hard mode for this life 🤣

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posted February 11, 2021 01:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by placidus_flamingo:
😂 It’s even worse in equal house. Mercury and Uranus get pushed in there too. That’s probably why I try to be optimistic about “bad” placements. With this chart I don’t have much of a choice. I’m running late for work, but I’m excited to check out yours when I get off.

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i don't believe in bad placements personally, just like i know well plenty of easy aspects don't mean things are all great

people just have an inherent bias

that being said i don't believe that things in life that we experience even bad/traumatic things are necessarily terrible in the bigger picture, all depends on where you go from there

horrible things can be catalysts for growth or useful to others

something that feels bad in the moment could be a blessing in disguise in retrospect, or something that built us up in a way we needed later on

posted February 11, 2021 02:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chanterelle:
Okay, so: making up my own definition (yeah, I know that’s not really allowed): triggering = the subjective experience of trauma in the absence of an objective stimulus? Just trying this out because it allows for the possibility of being triggered by situations that echo past-life experience as well.

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🤣 i laughed, i think it's different when you're clear you're using if differently though i do agree past life stuff can definitely be triggered in people

i've had some interesting past life related experiences to say the least

though i'm currently just waiting on something coming in, major changes after having a very intriguing dream about shiva dancing and being given a coconut that was cut up and given to guests at a party (had so many other dreams about major changes and this new moon come up for me recently) had no idea of the symbolism connection between shiva and coconuts until i woke up and looked it up the other day

i know almost nothing about shiva other than briefly looking into things after shadow work that involved speaking in tongues and hindu so i'm like 🤷‍♀️ and really only because there's a dionysus/shiva connection and dionysus was how i ended up here in the first place

well sort of there's a long story about laced drugs and autowriting and a witch i wrote about before i met her etc too, past life stuff included

posted February 11, 2021 03:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chanterelle:
I have a book on chakras with illustrations of the different manifestations of Shiva associated with each one. I don’t think any of them are holding coconuts, though... I’ll check.
Edit: nope, no coconuts. 1st and 5th have elephants, though, and I’m pretty sure elephants like to get drunk on coconuts... Dionysus/grape-stomping? Just guessing... I’ve never heard of that particular connection.

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it's really funny to me that you even brought up elephants 🤣 you couldn't have told me anything more perfect so thank you, for real

i've been having an elephant related synchronicity going on for over a year now that's part of what i've been following so that's pretty great

i actually had to double check to see if i mentioned it or you just thought to say it without that and damn... ******* perfect 😁 love that kind of ****

the connection has to do with some of the symbolism and energy dionysus being a foreign god to greek culture and so on, alexander the great wrote about it a bit

posted February 11, 2021 03:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Chanterelle:
Interesting... I have this thing about trying to pay attention when my phone’s word prompter offers me something that seems totally out of left field. I remember noting in one of my first dozen or so posts that it randomly suggested an elephant emoji mid-sentence. I have no idea what I was actually talking about at the time, though.
So in this book, it talks about an elephant named Airavata with 7 trunks in the colors of the rainbow, associated with musical notes, chakras, etc.

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i have a friend who does that with word prompts on her phone, interesting to hear someone else mention it to i should let her know (she's a scorpio moon actually) that's really funny

the elephant thing has been very specific for me, and ties in with divination and stuff that i was told during the coconut dream but there were no elephants in it

really appreciate all this, going to look into it

we all end up on each other's paths even in passing for reasons so that's pretty interesting

perfect day for it too, makes it even better