posted August 13, 2009 11:00 AM         

quote:

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Yes, that is EXACTLY what I'm saying too. What's the point in some people recycling every milk bottle and piece of aluminium foil when some Hollywood idiot buys a new handbag every day made by some small-boned child in China, and I'm supposed to go "To each their own, shouldn't judge".

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Wheels, people wouldn't be able to live with themselves if they didn't do the "To each their own" thing. It's too hard to change the world or speak up for higher causes. It takes a lot of energy and strength. I feel guilty about it every day because I am not proactive enough.

We are weak, we are self-conscious, we have other issues to deal with in our personal lives, we are tired, we are overworked, we just don't care enough...

posted August 13, 2009 01:05 PM         

Wheels,

quote:

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Yep, I'm completely open to the fact that I'm judgmental on this one. I'm not apologising for that. It sucks yes, but I don't claim to be enlightened. I think people can go over the top New Agey and forget that it's actually quite alright to call people out on their sh!t.

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Wheels, the only thing you are is sensible, intelligent, and socially conscious. The irony of some of the idiocy in this thread is mind-blowing. According to some people here, apparently, it is not okay to call someone out for hoarding millions and millions, even billions of dollars, in a world where that money could be used to save lives, but, it is perfectly fine to call somebody out for calling somebody out. LMFAO Talk about allowing New Age clap-trap to blind you to the most obvious truths. These fools think that I am out of line for "judging" gargantuan greed, but they are tolerant for "judging" my moral indignation. How blind can you be? Is it just that people have a personal bias against me and they aren't objective enough to see past it? Really, somebody, help me to understand the irony in these responses. T says that we are supposed to sit here thinking everything is perfect and not calling anybody out -- but it is okay for her to call us out, lol, for calling people out. The irony is mind-blowing. This isn't rocket science, people. Hoarding billions of dollars while people starve is far far worse than calling people out for hoarding billions of dollars while people starve. They think we are taking a self-righteous stance by speaking out against this enormous injustice, while they are not being the least bit self-righteous for speaking out against us, lol. They talk about things being a difference of degree, not kind, but then they tell me there is no difference between not being a saint and being a greedy billionaire - lmfao! And, if their whole defense is that we are being judgmental, then what the hell are they being for calling us out?! How moronic can you be? Yes, i am using words like "fools", "idiocy", and "moronic" now.. and let them lock the freaking thread on me for calling it like it is. It won't be the first time.

posted August 13, 2009 01:34 PM         

ARE they hoarding it? some do for sure, but i for one know plenty of rich people who spend about half on people less fortunate than themselves. and i DON'T know many, many more billionaires so i have NO WAY OF KNOWING whether they are creeps or saints. that is my ONLY argument here...

then there is the old saying, which i believe is very close to true if not completely, that if you took all the money in the world today and divided it equally within a year the balance would have shifted back to pretty much what it is today.

i personally have experienced receiving a large chunk of money (nowhere near billions or even a million!) which, due to circumstances, or so i felt at the time, i ended up spending. i did not go hog-wild with it, but i had to buy a houseful of furniture, transportation, food and clothing and there was no work available at the time. i did use a big chunk to go to school (professional) to get the papers i needed to be where i am today, which is just above broke most days...and i don't regret a single penny of it because it gave me a chance to homeschool my daughter, show her some of the world, and to relocate when i needed to. the broke part is mostly because i have chosen to give my time to my grandson instead of clients. soon i will not be broke anymore...

it is my experience that rich people KNOW that you have to circulate the stuff to keep it coming...and those who don't - well, they get what they deserve! life devoted to money is empty and tragic. take two arab sheiks i once knew, both billionaires. one was generous and fair in business, gave a fortune to various charitable endeavours, his ex-wives, his children; he was well-loved and happy and his business thrived. his brother, same amount of money, saw deceit everywhere, was stingy with his exes, experienced many rip-offs and swindles in his business and poor health. the ONLY difference between these two guys was their attitude. the miser and the miserable are twins.

posted August 13, 2009 01:44 PM         

quote:

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if you don't want to hear people's take, valus, why put it out here?

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OMG!

It just hit me! Valus is arguing his ideas, where most of the people here are arguing their feelings.
The lines seem blurred on both sides but the intentions are definitely very different.

posted August 13, 2009 01:57 PM         

My beef isn't with those that are wealthy but with our (American) government and how it basically works for those with money and insures that the less fortunate are further implanted in a hole of misfortune (no health insurance, poor education, poor health, humiliation, little resources to necessities… a life of pure poverty) just look at the cost of living and the poverty line.

My philosophy is if you have a problem with the treatment of people then do something about it no matter how insignificant you think your change will be. Awareness is the first step.

One thing that saddens me is that people really buy into the American Dream fantasy that is used to control us.

The topic reminds me of Adam Freeland’s song We Want Your Soul:

your cellphone, your wallet, your time, your ideas
no barcode, no party, no ID, no beers
your bankcard, your license, your thoughts, your fears
no simcard, no disco, no photo, not here

your blood, your sweat, your passions, your regrets
your profits, your time off, your fashions, your sex
your pills, your grass, your **** , your ass
your laughs, your balls, we want it all

we want your soul x 3
(in bg: your cash, your house, your phone, your life, your cash, your house, your phone, your life)

tell us your habits, your fads, your fears
give us your address, your shoe size, your years
your digits, your plans, your number, your eyes
your schedule, your desktop, your details, your life
show us your children, your photos, your home
here, take credit, take insurance, take a loan
get a job, get a pension, get a haircut, get a suit
play the lottery, play football, play the field, snort some toot

we'll show you shrinks, we'll show you spooks
we'll buy you drinks, throw away your books
we'll sell you crap, we'll charge you tax
wanna buy big guns? we'll front the cash

we want your soul x 5
(in bg: your cash, your house, your phone, your life, your cash, your house, your phone, your life)

your thoughts, your emotions, your love, your dreams
your check book, your essence, your sweat, your screams
your security, your sobriety, your innocence, your society
your self, your place, your distance, your space

[bill hicks]
go back to bed america your government is in control again
here watch this shut up
you are free to do as we tell you
you are free to do as we tell you
[/bill hicks]

we want your soul

here's boy bands, here's Mackers, here's Britney, here's Cola
here's pizza, here's TV, here's some rock and some roller
watch commercials, more commercials, watch Jerry, not Oprah
buy a better life from the comfort of your sofa
here's popcorn, here's magazines, here's milkshake, here's blue jeans
here's padded bras, here's armpit wax, here's football shirts, here's baseball caps
here's live talk shows, here's video games, here's cola lite, here's ten more lanes
here's filter tips, here's collagen lips, here's all night malls, here's plastic hips

we want your soul x 5
(in bg: your cash, your house, your phone, your life, your cash, your house, your phone, your life)
your soul (echo)

[bill hicks]
go back to bed America, your government is in control again
here, here's American Gladiators
watch this, shut up

go back to bed America
here's American Gladiators, here's 56 channels of it
watch these pituitary retards bang their ****** ' skulls together
and congratulate you on living in the land of freedom
here you go America
you are free to do as we tell you
you are free to do as we tell you
[/bill hicks]

we want your soul x 8
we want your soul x 8
(in bg: your cash, your house, your phone, your life, your cash, your house, your phone, your life)

no rookies, no stray, no drop-outs, no gays
no lefties, no loonies, no opinions, no way
no thinkers, no teachers, no facts, no freaks
no skaters, no tweekers, no truth, no sleep

we want your soul x6
(in bg: your cash, your house, your phone, your life, your cash, your house, your phone, your life)

here's popcorn, here's magazines, here's milkshake, here's blue jeans
here's padded bras, here's armpit wax, here's football shirts, here's baseball caps
here's very very very very very very very very very very very very long infomercials

posted August 13, 2009 02:04 PM         

Some may earn their papaer by oing seemingly meaningless events, while others contribute while moving up. Bill Gates. No Bill Gates? where would we be today?
Ok, Actors/Musicians/Creative people.... Doesnt seem like they contribute much - they only express. Yet, in expressing something, it is very likely that the recipient will benefit in an emotional way.

Not only about how they earn money, but also how they spend it, or not, in some cases.

I agree with the earlier point about not giving what you have, if you have a lot. Why have it sitting around doing nothing, when it can be put to good use.

From the perspective of the super-rich....why bother?
You build a few houses/hospitals/internet cafes and they are there for a while, people get use out of them, but what is in it for
the super-rich?
Slap themselves on the back? Good job.
Take emotional comfort in seeing others happy?

Very little.

Sure many do give and lots of, from the perspective of the group receiving.
Like energy has to go somewhere, as will money. You get all the super-rich to give all (excess) wealth to charity and you just create millionaire charities who may or may not do good with distributing it round.

Hey, if they do good, I guess that will be problem solved. In a big question like this, the focus would need to be on where the cash goes. Would the charity spend it well?
After spending the money, would it fall into the wrong hands?

Lots of questions and answers.

posted August 13, 2009 02:05 PM         

I am arguing with both heart and mind.

Intelligently, and out of compassion
for the people who are suffering
on account of these horrible crimes.

katatonic,

posted August 13, 2009 02:10 PM         

Don't get me started on the gov.

There is plenty of guilt to go around.

You say it is a personal choice...
Politicians make personal choices, too.
So do NAZIs and pedophiles.
I just dont see your point.

Coffee,

quote:

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Some should be ashamed, that is a definite.

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posted August 13, 2009 02:26 PM         

quote:

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I am arguing with both heart and mind.

Intelligently, and out of compassion
for the people who are suffering
on account of these horrible crimes.

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posted August 13, 2009 02:29 PM         

Yes CHOICE. Just like you are choosing to be on here to PREACH than raising money for the poor starving kids of the world that you seem so concerned with.

You are arguing values and expecting people to subscribe to what you value as important.

Now my next post may be a while from now because I am going to work (a place where I put my values into action and work with children with special needs).

posted August 13, 2009 02:30 PM         

i'm sorry if you disagree valus, but this is plain arrogance. who put you in charge of everybody's life? since when do you know everything?

do you know ANY rich people?

posted August 13, 2009 02:41 PM         

i am a giver, of my time, my money and my compassion.

i work hard, i play hard, i give freely and i do not feel guilty for going on nice vacations or buying nice things for myself.

if i ever find myself SUPER-rich as you say, i will improve the lives of many more than i already do. but none the less, not feel guilty over the things that i have.

i can live fairly simply and do, but i work hard, why should i deny myself earthy pleasures if i can afford them?

i mean how much is too much? 2 cars? 3 motorcycles? 6 TV's?

bottom line, i am a giver, and i refuse to feel guilty if i am blessed or have more possessions than some. i feed the hungy, clothe the poor, help orphanages, donate time and money to thiose less fortunate. who is anyone breathing to judge me and say as long as there is a hungry child you should only own one vehicle, two pairs of shoes and no designer duds? i mean define super rich? more than enough? more than one million? more than 2 million? more than a quarter million a year?

i will never be ashamed for living well if i am able to. we cant take the stuff with us, it's true....but if we work hard we might as well enjoy the fruits of our labors and help others when we can.

even the bible only requires 10 percent tithe.

anything above that is generous.

posted August 13, 2009 03:09 PM         

I don't think anyone here thinks the world is perfect. (I may have to re-read the previous posts). I believe what people are saying is: "Be the change you want to see. It doesn't start with blaming the outside world."

So what are we going to do about this "injustice", Valus? Do you have a suggestion or a plan? An information campaign? A signature campaign? Sorry I can't join your anti-billionaires campaign. When you have a pro-empowerment or pro-education campaign I'd be happy to join.

posted August 13, 2009 03:28 PM         

I don't wanna change anyone either - i just think it's a bit off to pay to see a Harry Potter film, love it and then slam the author for her success!!! lol

posted August 13, 2009 04:51 PM         

but there sure are alot of passionate people on here. wow.

posted August 13, 2009 05:10 PM         

Ive enjoyed some other's thoughts and points in this thread too. Havent read it entirely or fully yet.