posted August 14, 2009 01:17 PM         

what you, a relatively poor man, thinks $10 million is worth is not the same as what a billionaire can do with it.

let me just say my father, born poor, thought like you. he spent every penny of the (equivalent of) millions he earned. my mother believed in saving. he thought that was "hoarding". suffice it to say that reversals that hit him caused him so much stress he suffered a fatal heart attack - and died in debt, which his family had to shoulder! if my mother had not insisted he take out life insurance we would have been homeless.

posted August 14, 2009 01:21 PM         

Nothing is all true. As I have said, there are many roles to play. The philosophy that tells us to go within and think only of ourselves and our own actions has its place, and, in my experience, it appears to resonate with people who are heavily influenced by the first 6 signs and/or houses of the zodiac. These are the signs and houses concerned with self-development, while the latter signs and houses connote involvement with others and with social concerns. We all have our roles to play, according to our temperaments and dispositions. For my part, I am primarily attuned to the energies of the latter signs and houses, and, from my point of view, what you are suggesting, taken as an absolute, would mean burying our heads in the sand. Just because you attain peace within yourself does not mean that the world is peaceful. Self-development is a grand thing. But caring for others and speaking up about social issues is needed, too. There is nothing egotistical about standing up for what you strongly feel is right, and thinking that you may be able to contribute something of value (be it an insight, or a loaf of bread) to others. Nor do I believe that you completely disagree with me -- otherwise, you would not be speaking up now, nor giving any more weight to your own perspective than to mine, but, sitting in a lotus position somewhere, tending entirely to your own self-perfection. The fact that you are sharing your view suggests that you think there is value in doing so. I commend you for taking a vocal part in this discussion. You are not doing any favors, for anyone besides yourself, by looking the other way when injustices are being sanctioned and committed. Ultimately, I think you know this.

posted August 14, 2009 01:29 PM         

Let's be fair. I doubt you read every word I have written on this matter, or, if you have, you clearly did not pay attention, since you continue to debate things which are of no consequence to my arguments. Try to understand that, unlike you, I have a dozen people posting on this thread who oppose my view and who each deserve some answer from me. When you stop making irrellevent points, i will start tending more conscientiously to your posts. The argument about your father is so far off-base, i am tempted to ignore you all together from now on. Do you think your father would have struggled, had he retained ten million for himself? Do you think that people who generate billions really need to hang onto more than ten million for themselves, at any one time? Sure, they must make billions, in order to give billions away, and i am not disputing the making of money, only the retaining of more than 10 million of it for personal use. Please, address yourself to the points I have made ten posts ago before continuing to bring up all sorts of unrelated arguments. I have consistently responded to the precise substance of your objections, despite their irrellevance. It is time for you to attend to the substance of my propositions, or to abandon this futile exercise. Thank you.

posted August 14, 2009 02:18 PM         

you said yourself you were watching cable tv at 50 dollars (or more) per month, how can you not be sending that money to a third world country to put away your wealth in favor of helping the poor? your cable bill alone could feed many hungry children in india.

put your money where your mouth is. i do.

if you were true to what you said, then you would think anything more than enough is too much and a true philanthropist does indeed help the needy as a way of life. volunteer to cook at a shelter once a week if you dont have cash and you want to do your part.

it IS all relative.

plus you teach people by example, i never was one to listen much to what people SAY unless thier ACTIONS match thier words.

posted August 14, 2009 02:22 PM         

i don't care to disagree with you, but when someone has taken care of himself enough and fulfilled, he probably does not even have to try to help others. it just happens from within. but it's ok, i don't think you understood what i meant by it and i don't care to go on explaining.

by the way, i have a heavy 9th house influence if you wanted to know.

posted August 14, 2009 03:05 PM         

So can I be philosphical for just a moment?

Valus has a right to his opinion, as does each and every one.

When it comes down to it, isn't the most important thing what we do with our time in this life?

If you are dead-a$$ broke, you can still be a bitter butthead.
If your are loaded, you can still be a nice person.

When I said money is the root of all evil, I meant that in a general way.
my uncle-in-law was a married man with 3 children and nice home, very happy dude.
He owned a KFC, which provided very well.
He then bought another and another and another...then came the cars and the vacations and all that stuff.
He changed as a person, that is what I meant in my first post. He bought a 22 room house. I know what it was like, because I cleaned it. Besides the childrens bedrooms, only 4 rooms were actually used. The rest were show rooms.
His life went downnnnnn hill in a hurry. He messed around, got divorced, his son went to jail, his daughter got a nasty heroin problem. Would this have happened anyway? Maybe.

And I am not lazy, I've never been called lazy in my life, quite the contrary, people and my doctors always say, "you need to slow down."

Remember that Telsa song, the lyrics say, "it's not what you do, it's what you give."

If artists and writers only give an expression, what is wrong with that? Where would we be as a culture without them to reflect what we cannot?

I have two friends that are homeless, cause they WANNA be. That may sound crazy, but it is true. Some people just like having personal freedom.

posted August 14, 2009 03:14 PM         

ya, i agree my last post sounds a little detached and inconsiderate. but i was also smiling and a bit amused when i was writing that, it was not intended to be mean.

but now, i also didn't want to post here anymore because it's getting pointless to me. just didn't want to offend anyone, wasn't what i meant, including to you Gypsee.

posted August 14, 2009 03:33 PM         

i have said time and again that i think you mean well. however i don't appreciate your talking down to me or anyone who disagrees with you. we are entitled to our opinions and if you don't want to know, why bring it? i was trying to expand your information and express my take on it.

i don't believe in continuing a discussion that is going nowhere. you keep repeating your p.o.v and i keep coming back with mine. why should i continue when your response is so condescending? i am doing you the honour of respecting your right to carry on. your NEED to have the last word is your affair.

posted August 14, 2009 06:04 PM         

Now, I'm gonna go ahead and point out a few things from a VERY offensive post by you Valus, and hope that you were just having your period or something, that YOU of all people would stoop to name calling...

quote:

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I'm not going to argue this any more because if these pea-brains dont get it by now, I'm not going to try to enlighten them again for another twenty lifetimes, at least. LOL. Make what you will of this, pea-brains. See only one side of it, like you always do.

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Classy, dude! And that was only ONE of the slanderous names you used in that post. I didn't see where anyone was attacking YOU personally, but I guess when you are always on the defensive, you may see it that way. You start a thread to get people heated, and then can't stand it when people have different ideas than you. NOBODY has a right to tell somebody else their opinion on this issue is [ wrong . Sharing personal opinion is obviously going to stir some crap up, apparently in your case because you are NOT practicing what you preach and are ashamed of it, so why not continue to detract from that point and cry that you are once again being "called out"? Oh, right, because you're really just "enlightening" all of us with your vast spiritual superiority.

quote:

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Is it just that people have a personal bias against me and they aren't objective enough to see past it? Really, somebody, help me to understand the irony in these responses.

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If that helps you sleep at night, yes, we are all biased against YOU personally, not the inflammatory remarks you make or the personal insults you dish out when somebody sees things differently than you do.

THIS is why you end up with people losing sight of the issue, you play dirty in debates, whether or not you choose to see it. Even the most passive response seems to be an invitation for battle to you.

quote:

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The actions taken by MLK Jr. include, primarily, the exposition of ethical matters -- in other words, he wrote and argued, and took the backlash. If you think that speaking up for an unpopular cause is not taking action, just try to imagine for a moment how difficult it is to be unpopular, and to continue to argue for the truth in the face of an onslaught of insults and character assasinations. King was murdered as much for his words as for his actions -- and his most obvious actions, in my view, involved the fearless pronouncement and exposition of his perspective. Many people protested, but we remember and honor MLK Jr. for his words, while the countless people who "merely" protested are anonymous by comparison. Lastly, the action of protest, which involves, as one activist put it, "throwing ourselves beneath the gears", are even more infuriating to those unsympathetic to them than the preaching of ideas. If you disagree with my words, do you honestly think you would support my actions? If you see my words as inflamatory, how much more so would you see it, if I marched down Madison Avenue with a sign that reads: "Billionaires starve children"? King did not simply practice racial equality, he placed himself in the way of people who practiced its opposite.

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Maybe you should actually try to DO something if you feel so strongly, not just post an argumentative thread on a message board that will be forgotten in a few days. I'm pretty sure that MLK did more with his "writings" than that. The comparison you made is laughable, but nice strategy anyway!

If you have it in you to stand up for this, do your part, get off the couch and do it already! Then you may actually get the support you say you want. (although, there's not as much drama when people agree with you, is there?)

posted August 14, 2009 06:07 PM         

Mostly, all I see now are people repeating themselves, ignoring or misunderstanding the points I've made, and getting nasty and personal for no remotely good reason.

Lechien, I really dont feel like pointing out the difference between a heavy 9th house influence and a chart that is predominantly attuned to the latter 6 signs and houses, but you are welcome for the entertainment.

Nor do I feel like pointing out to you and cpn the difference between having cable television (which somebody else pays for and would not permit me to get rid of anyway) and having a 20 million dollar private jet.

And the last thing I need to explain is how little I care for somebody's subjective "need" for more than 10 million dollars in their bank account, katatonic. I'm much more interested in the "subjective" needs of people who have no access to clean water.

You are, of course, all welcome to your opinions.
I'll do my best not to think any less of you.

lechien, I do appreciate that you are trying and that you have an ear for Gypsee's good sense. I apologize for the pea-brain comments, to you and to others. Peace to you.

quote:

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Valus has a right to his opinion, as does each and every one.

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Thanks, Gypsee.

You make a lot of sense, here,
and in the rest of your posts.

posted August 14, 2009 06:15 PM         

I just saw your post. As you can see from what I just posted, I regret those comments, and I apologize. If any one wishes to apologize to me for the nasty character assaults and insults they hurled, I am all ears. As I see it, I am not the only one here who has used inflammatory language or suggested that their own perspective is coming from a higher consciousness than the one they are disputing. The rest of your objections have already been answered, if you take the time to read my responses. You may not agree with my answers, but I'm satisfied that I'm fighting a good fight and that attempting to change people's minds is not a form of inaction, but a very difficult and intelligent form of action. Giving a man a fish is certainly one form of action, but teaching a man to fish (or to share the billions of fish he's hoarding and draining the oceans of) is also a form of action.

posted August 14, 2009 06:43 PM         

Like clockwork, it is

posted August 14, 2009 06:56 PM         

Somebody's gotta do it.

posted August 14, 2009 07:06 PM         

You and I are standing outside on a sunny day, as friends, and we are having a friendly debate about what has been said on the message board:

Me:

Wait, wait, wait – not so fast. Since we are into irony here, what is even more ironic to me is that people on a site that relies on judgments and generalizations about people who are actually in our lives, (because astrology is not a science per se and is in fact referred to as a “pseudo-science” in many communities) on threads entitled things like: “Should I trust a Scorpio?”, “Which sign is the most vindictive?”, “Biggest penis by sign”, “Libras – Yay or Nay?”. On which people have answers such as “No – Since they are ruled by _____” or “Yes – they rule the house of _____” or “All of the ____s I know are *ss*oles” and this is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE and ENCOURAGED. However, don’t mess with the wealthy, don’t question what they do, don’t have your own opinion about them because that makes you envious/don’t have a live/unsuccessful, etc. WOW!!! Now that tells me a lot about LL!

posted August 14, 2009 07:23 PM         

i dont always agree, but i always apprecaite who you are.

posted August 14, 2009 07:50 PM         

Don't you think there are better ways to take action in the world - actually out in the world, helping these people that you say you care so much about? Think about it.

quote:

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If we want a love message to be heard,
it has got to be sent out.

Mother Teresa

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But you arent sending out a message of love, Valus.
You are biitching about billionares and what you think they should be doing and not doing. How they are wrong and should be ashamed of themselves. And insulting others in the process. Reread your messages, they are not filled with love. They are full of judgement and rigidity.

"Teaching a man to fish is also a form of action".

Okay, then. Why not find some wealthy people and ask if you would be able to converse with them and change THEIR minds. Since these are the bad guys in your mind. OR better yet, get out there and do some volunteer work and help the ones you care so much about. Maybe you could help less fortunate people learn to read and write. That would definitely help them get a leg up in this world.

Do you think this thread is actually making a world of difference? Do you think this has scratched any kind of surface five pages later and soon to be forgotten on LindaLand? Did this thread help to feed or clothe anyone? That is what you claim to be most concerned about.

No. It got you some praise. And it's a place to got some anger off your chest.

The poor, the hungry and how to help them. If that is your true concern, you would be out there finding ways to help the less fortunate. There would be a fire under your ass and nothing could stop you from accomplishing your goals. Where there is a will, there is a way. If you truly cared and were concerned for them you would find ways to help them. Fair and square. Not sit in front of the computer arguing with non-billionares while people go hungry and die.

posted August 14, 2009 07:53 PM         

quote:

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lol, MVM
Somebody's gotta do it.

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What's the deal with that?

Who do you think you are?

Somebody's gotta start threads like this all the time while others go without? While the world needs volunteers? While there are people out there starving, homeless, uneducated and dying?