posted September 12, 2009 02:11 PM         

How many Godzala threads
do we need, Xodian?

No end of those, I see.

No need to consolidate those, eh?

posted September 12, 2009 02:19 PM         

quote:

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A general discussion gathering-place where you can talk about anything you like; make new friends, lend support, share inspirational stories, and recommend any interesting sites that you come across

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Clearly you didn't notice the fact that we had a change of rules when it came to politically oriented discussions and content that was deemed graphic in nature. Yes you are right; We have had more then enough Godzala related threads and I'll be making sure that we tighten the lid on them. Though nothing in those threads depicted graphic images or the like.

posted September 12, 2009 02:46 PM         

OFFTOPIC:

Well first off, lets respond to the given accusitions shall we? (and hopefully those who made those colourful statements can listen.) Valus... No offense but you are the LAST person in the world I'll be envious of . Its nothing personal but until you can get into and obtain a degree from a University that is recognized around the world for its excellence and credibility or actually show through some given course of action that you can do good for yourself enough to live on your own, have your own house, Attend and win both academic, and athletic competitions and actually get recognized for international voluteer work for recognized organizations like Oxfam or Unicef, I really don't see any quality in you that I personally should be envious of . And yes I love gaming and furthermore, I actually displayed my passion for it by being sponsored by a recognized Canadian Game Developing firm and getting money and compensation for the time I put into it. So ergo, those who have called me a power drunk gamer need to atleast show me that they are capable of affording a nice big house... Or a life for that matter . But that is another story.

ONTOPIC:

See, your own lack of coherency in what you say makes your own personal view points so terribly unreliable. If you say that you choose to refute all those given points that I and other people have surely placed infront of you on the grounds of personal matters then you really sound like a hypocrite when you debunk others for being spiritually unevolved when they respond to your threads from their own personal POV. You say why should you listen to my reasoning while you continue on senselessly accusing others and comparing them to the likes of Nazis... Well I say, why should you weep a river when others reverse your own given lack of concern for their points and academically backed arguments?

posted September 12, 2009 02:57 PM         

A Mother's Warning about Vegan Diets

For years now, I've received and shared sporadic letters from mothers who followed strict vegan diets who subsequently gave birth to babies with a variety of birth defects and health problems.

Here's the latest sad story and heart-felt warning from a former vegan mother:

Just stumbled across your website and wanted to offer a personal testimony. The bare bones.

My husband and I have seven children. After the birth of our third child, I read "Fit for Life" and "Living Health" by the Diamonds. I immediately revamped my family's diet. Including myself, a nursing mother of a 3-month old.

He (the baby) grew big and fat while I wasted down to next to nothing on a no-animal foods diet. I felt run-down and could only stay up until 10 a.m. before I had to go to the couch.

Well, about ten months later, baby still nursing, I got pregnant with No. 4. I stopped nursing. I literally was a rag doll, with no health, could barely get around.

At about five months pregnant, I started taking a protein shake twice a day (Spirutein, fyi). Very soon, I was up and going and feeling much better.

When delivery time came, though, my precious baby girl was born with severe congenital birth defects of the heart and abdomen. She has undergone five surgeries and other procedures and is doing well, but will never be normal unless God intervenes. She is, though, a very vibrant child for her condition)

I cannot say for sure, but I have always suspected that the deterioration of my health due to following a vegan diet before and after her conception caused her birth defects.

I have since come to learn that the mother's nutritional state at conception may be more important than what you eat while pregnant (I cannot verify that -- but I do have experience on my side).

It is a shame that the books are still out there. I followed a vegan diet because at first when I tried it, it happened as they said.

As things progressed, I blamed it [my declining health] on myself for not getting the "variety" of fruits and veggies I needed.

Anyway, there it is -- the long and short. Without all the tears and fears experienced with almost losing my daughter several times.

By the way, she is my only child with severe (anaphylactic) food allergies to milk products, no less, and originally to chicken, also.

Thank you for your website and for the balanced approach.

-- L.A.

I'd like to thank L.A. for sharing her story, and I hope that her letter and this article will get passed around so other mothers and expectant mothers on vegan diets will be more aware of potential dangers.

If you're on a strict vegan diet and pregnant or expecting to be pregnant, I urge you to read several important articles that address the long-term problems with diets that preach against all animal fats and proteins.

I've had several of these articles online for years now, and yet, to date, not a single vegan guru has been able to refute the facts and observations in them.

In fact, none of them have even tried!

Now, that says something important to me.

For your information, the diets I consider most dangerous for expectant mothers, nursing mothers, babies, and children include the original Fit for Life™ program (to his credit, Harvey Diamond later rejected strict veganism and now includes clean animal foods in his diet), the Sheltonian Natural Hygiene Diet of fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds, The Hallelujah Diet™ and any other program that precludes all animal fats and protein.

Strict vegan diets can be excellent short-term programs for weight loss and health gains for many people, but they are inappropriate and potentially very dangerous for expectant mothers, nursing mothers, babies, and children.

And, over months or years, just about everyone who doesn't "occasionally cheat" on a vegan diet by eating some butter, eggs, yogurt, cheese, salmon on the sly will experience deficiencies and declining health and energy.

So, please, don't put your faith in vegan diet gurus who apparently value money and reputation over truth.

Instead of succumbing to their dietary preaching and taking their word as gospel, do your own homework.

Look in the mirror.

Listen to your body.

If you've been on a strict vegan diet and no longer feel the way you felt during the first few weeks or months on it (when most people feel fabulous), your body's telling you there's a problem with the diet and that you're missing nutritional factors that are only available in clean animal fats and proteins.

In closing, although I know it will continue to happen because of the false teachings of the vegan diet gurus, I hate to think about reading future emails from mothers who give birth to damaged babies as a result of their not eating the diet we are designed to eat - whole, clean foods from both plant and animal kingdoms.

posted September 12, 2009 02:59 PM         

Xodian, not that you shouldn't participate in this debate, but since you are an active participant, it seems only fair that a different moderator should step in as well. This is a highly contentious issue, and there is not universal agreement on either side.

posted September 12, 2009 03:10 PM         

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Isn't the role of moderator to be a non-participating observer who makes sure that the content of the site doesn't get out of hand?

Xodian, not that you shouldn't participate in this debate, but since you are an active participant, it seems only fair that a different moderator should step in as well. This is a highly contentious issue, and there is not universal agreement on either side.

A moderator's role should be to step in with relative impartiality to make sure that the heated debate does not devolve into personal attacks.

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posted September 12, 2009 03:16 PM         

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Xodian, to be clear--do you believe it is appropriate for a moderator to be an active participant in the debate he or she is moderating?

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posted September 12, 2009 03:19 PM         

That's different from a moderator actively posting arguments on one or the other side of a debate. I see it as a mod's role to observe the debate, and if the people debating are violating forum policy, the mod intervenes.

I'm not sure whether or not personal attacks (accusing someone of being envious of you, accusing someone of being egotistical and putting down their relative education level) are appropriate according to LL's policies...but it seems to me just basic common sense that if a raging debate is happening, it can be very helpful to have an outside moderator.

That outside moderator is a human being with opinions and biases just like everyone else, but he/she decides to step out of debating the issue, instead checking to make sure none of the posts on either side violate forum policies.

EDITED:

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The moderator can indeed keep an eye on an ongoing debate and still participate in it, keeping in mind that he/she has to make sure that things stay inline with the given rules of the forum.

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Sorry, your post hadn't come up yet.

Okay, I (usually) disagree, but understand if LL's mods have a different perspective.

posted September 12, 2009 03:38 PM         

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Neither Ganong nor thousands of scientific writers on the subject of digestion make mention of any value of intrinsic food enzymes in human digestion. There is one exception: Prochaska LJ; Piekutowski On the synergistic effects of enzymes in food with enzymes in the human body. A literature survey and analytical report. Med Hypotheses (ENGLAND) Jun 1994. In this article the authors mostly repeat the well understood effects of heat in breaking down vitamins, amino acids, and producing undesirable cross-linkages in proteins, particularly in meat. They do not produce a surfeit of evidence in support of the "enzyme theory", although they do point out that cooking beans increases their digestibility by destroying the trypsin inhibitors therein and they cite this as evidence that these enzymes can survive the digestive enzymes at least long enough to cause negative effects. They also present tentative evidence that there is some degree of synergy between some food enzymes and human digestive enzymes, a concept that would at least seem plausible. However they admit: "In the absence of active enzymes in food, the foodstuffs are still able to be digested and the nutrient release from food still occurs, but not at maximum efficiency." This is a far cry from "the enzymes present in raw foods take priority over secreted enzymes."

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posted September 12, 2009 03:39 PM         

quote:

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I agree that total, "perfect" impartiality is impossible...also unneccessary for a moderator!
That's different from a moderator actively posting arguments on one or the other side of a debate.

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posted September 12, 2009 03:53 PM         

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don't see that it is. If, as you say, "impartiality is impossible and unnecessary" then why shouldn't we voice our opinions on one side or the other of an issue??

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This quote doesn't accurate represent what I wrote or believe.

I think "TOTAL, PERFECT impartiality" isn't possible. I think RELATIVE impartiality is possible and highly, highly desirable.

posted September 12, 2009 04:06 PM         

Time to set a few things straight. There were more threads created on the topic at hand. The people in this topic thus far haven't resorted to pasting shocking pictures, nor have they routinely created a new thread on a topic that could have easily been kept in one single thread. Notice that Valus has been warned in this thread for violating agreed upon forum T&C protocals which include posting up disturbing pictures. The other forum members haven't broken any such rules as of yet other then calling Valus "annoying" with is far from a personal attack. None of the forum members resorted to shock tactics or placed inappropriate images.

Furthermore, none of the forum members who are debating here placed politically oriented heated topics such as this one in this forum. That is what GU forum is for (or better yet, the Health and Healing forum for this particular topic.)

For the record, I did call upon inappropriate behavior of forum members who were against Valus' views in one of his other threads which had to be transfered on to GU.

posted September 12, 2009 04:44 PM         

I really have no interest in winning your admiration, since you've made it clear that what you value is the ability to make money (which, in an ignorant and backwards society, generally involves the excercise of ignorant and backwards values) and perform feats of physical prowess (which don't impress me). You probably think its reasonable that athletes make millions while teachers, nurses, and firefighters scrape by. As for universities, dont make me laugh. The ability to memorize and regurgitate someone else's ideas, assertions, and theories is what universities reward, and not something I especially esteem. What impresses me is the ability to think independently and to do independent research -- two things which are positively discouraged and punished by academia. For my part, I've coined numerous aphorisms that rival almost anything you can find in the Western Canon, and more than several people have referred to me as their favorite writer. I've been earnestly called a "genius" by more than half a dozen people, including Zala (hi, Zala!). Countless times, I've been told how I put into words what they've always suspected or known but never been able to really conceptualize or articulate, and that I reveal things to them which they felt they were on the verge of grasping, and keys that unlock profound questions they've always wrestled with. I'd say those are accomplishments which rival your impressive hand-eye coordination, any day of the week. But who's counting? Incidentally, if there's anything I've done worthy of respect, its that I stopped torturing and killing animals for the sake of my lower appetites, and until you do likewise, you dont have much of a chance of impressing me with your ability to tow the line (and make money) or your gamer skills.

The letter from the mother you quoted only raises all sorts of questions. For one thing, the diet she followed is not the one I'm recommending, so I dont see how that letter refutes all the quotes I posted, lol. You cant just lump all vegan diets into the same category, buddy. I'm advocating a mostly raw diet. To my understanding, this makes a huge difference. Incidentally, birth defects occur in meat-eaters all the time. Should we conclude that its because of the meat-eating?

Also, I've been called many more things than "annoying". You'll understand if I dont feel like repeating them all, but, suffice to say, there have been comments made which I consider far more offensive and insulting than anything I've said. One person wrote, "You make me sick,". I suppose that's okay? Incidentally, I never said to anyone "you make me sick" and I think that's a really sh!tty thing to say. I've criticized people, mostly, for committing acts of horrific violence. Is that so wrong? In turn, I've been criticized for everything under the sun, but nothing that compares to acts of horrific violence.