posted September 13, 2009 11:24 AM         

And Valus:

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If I dont want to debate you, its mainly because you havent learned how to put a sentence together, and half the time I can't even make out what it is you're trying to say. Things like that can try my patience to the point where I just don't want to bother. Besides that, I dont find any substance in the dismissive and unoriginal responses you've been making. You reject my contributions without fair consideration and just repeat the popular views. You seem to assume that popularity must be instantly recognized as the highest credential. For me, and for every truly independent mind the world has ever known, just the opposite is true. On top of this, you have a juvenile egotism ("dud dud diss") that is just plain annoying. You're probably one of these people who says retarded things like "you got served". I just feel kind of icky talking to you. That's why I'm not keen on debating you, if you must know.

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Mr. Valus; Keep in mind that some of us are doing... Other, more consturctive things in their real lives while responding to your... little rants (Most of which I might add don't have a lick of academic backing.) I am actually doing a little report on the problems associated with the lack of motivation of the given sector of the unemployeed population which refuses to update its skill to meet the need of a new dynamic work environment. I could probably use this little discussion as an example Lol!

But on with the argument:

You say that you don't trust academic journals on the grounds that they are all minipulated and distorted to serve the conservatives yet this so called "conservative" ideology has helped billions of people as compared to a hand full of your testimonies. You seem to assume that these independent thinkers know more about how the human body works then a certified doctor or a nutritionist yet they can't even pinpoint the difference between enzymes and hormones. Pathetic really if you ask me since I can ask my little nephew to name them out for me . So yes Valus, there is little if not ANY credibility to your given independent sources.

Offcourse, I do not want to call you a vegetablehead or say that you might be suffering from an acute case of paranoia and self-loathing and you probably think that everyone is out to get you and reverse your misguided thinking on various subjects... Or that trying to talk to you can be utterly annoying since its like making a 12 year old mind understand the basics of biology and the business world, but your actions are pointing in that direction.

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But, intuitively, I can listen to someone like Paul Nison tell his own story, and I know he's telling the truth, and I know there is value in what he tells. He cured himself of a disease which the medical community said was incurable. They said the only answer was surgery -- to cut out his bowels and leave him with a permanent collostomy bag. Instead, he went against the advice of his doctor, changed his diet, and changed his life; becoming healthier than he ever imagined he could be. There are lots of stories like this out there, but you need to listen to the people. Real people, and not corporate interests and institutions mired in their conventions.

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I have to say then I question your intuition Mr. Valus (amoung other things.)You can probably shell out about hundered of little testimonies to cover your arguments but I can shell out millions that refute them. Paul Nison might be one of the rare cases that support your line of thought but let me as you this; How many people have died because they refused surgery to remove a tumor? Or IV drips for that matter? How many people are gonna die because they refuse "conventional" MRI scans? Cancer, Mr. Valus, does not discriminates. But offcourse its all way too "mainstream" for you am I right? Lol!

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You say the FDA would lose money from keeping people sick because they'd have to pay more benefits to their employees. You make arguments like this and expect me to take you seriously? Xodian, if you can't see how absurd this is... Do I really have to point out to you that they make billions off of selling their medications, and that this trumps employee health benefits by about, oh, say, billions of dollars? Come on. The employees of the FDA dont begin to compare to the number of people in the general public who purchase medications every week. Moreover, if the information I'm promoting were generally accepted, the FDA would be out of business in a week.

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*Le Sigh...* Hopeless... But I'll be patient with you:

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We as a nation lose billions through poor health which for the most part is self induced. Pfizer

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Keep in mind that this is a DRUG company that is trying to make sure that ALL employees are in tip top condition and ready for work. They actually recommend "alternative" workout routines such as Yoga. If they had solid evidence that your... Vegan diet actually does works, trust me, they wouldn't hesitate to recommend it for everyone. The entire country IS losing billions every year out of Employee health related issues. Just use your head Valus; The corporations aren't gonna let the FDA walk away by letting it feed them false information about keeping their Human resource intact and like I said before, the FDA is creating problems for itself in the long run by tainting their own pool from which they draw skilled workers from.

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Why not listen to what they do know? I must have missed your sources that debunked raw foods. What do you make of all the people who are transforming themselves and manifesting their highest destinies through a raw foods diet?

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If the given expert in question doesn't even knows the basics of human metabolisim, enzymes and hormonal makeup, how can I possibly listen to them? Its like listening to an astrologer who says that the planets don't actually exist Lol!

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How about the health problems we see in the general public, who follow the Standard American Diet (SAD)? Where do they appear in your studies?

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And studies have been conducted on it and most of them usually come out with minor deviations or the inclusion of other given factors like environment or lack of exercise Mr. Valus (something you should be looking at Lol!)

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A hundred years ago, 1 in 8,000 people was diagnosed with Cancer. Now its 1 in 3.

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See the statement above this one.

posted September 13, 2009 11:24 AM         

Guys, do you seriously want to continue this thread? I'm sure everyone is seeing that people from all sides are getting hurt already but I don't understand why they continue to prolong (and seem to enjoy) it. Geesh. Are we a bunch of sadomasochists here?

If this were a movie, this should be the part where it says:

-- THE END --

Characters (in order of appearance):

Valus
T
Xodian
Yin
woah city
lechien
MoonWitch
Unmoved
Glaucus
libraschoice7
SunChild
Lucia23
MyVirgoMask
Cheshire Kat
wheels of cheese
aerialcircus
Musette
katatonic
cpn_edgar_winner
Azalaksh
(DeuxAntares)

posted September 13, 2009 11:30 AM         

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And if people do that to you - OH NO! LOL We are supposed to keep in mind that we cant hear your tone of voice when you dont keep that in mind when reading others?

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Deux, nice touch!!

posted September 13, 2009 11:42 AM         

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Xodian,
I appreciate your arguments,insights,and information.

It's good to see both sides of the issue and not just one side.

Critical thinking is highly valued by me.

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Well thankyou Glaucus .

Atleast some of us actually use our Neurons for something more... Constructive. Offcourse, some of us have healthy functioning Neurons because we get all the required fatty acids that we need .

posted September 13, 2009 12:26 PM         

I can't believe what I'm hearing.

All of you are ganging up on lechien,
just because she spewed a stream of insults.

Jesus, she's only human, you know.

Why not give her a break?

Is it really necessary for so many of you
to harp and harp and harp on poor lechien?

I mean, sure, its the most vicious,
aggressive, mean-spirited, and personal
attack we've seen around here in a while,
but I can't believe what I'm hearing.

One after another, you add your two cents,
all criticizing her for her angry outburst.

You know, she's not the only one here
who has felt frustrated and provoked
and said things she shouldn't have.

There's plenty of blame to go around.
Let's not focus it all on one person.

I'm sure she's a good soul, after all.

I was really upset with her at first,
but after seeing you all ganging up
I can't help but feel some sympathy.

I mean, its all so one-sided and unfair.

Give her a break, will ya?

posted September 13, 2009 12:41 PM         

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." ~ Albert Einstein

congratulations, valus, you have DECONVERTED one vegan and created a lot of resistance around the topic. keep patting yourself on the back.

disagreement is not always proof of genius!
and congratulations on your "original" idea that eating flesh is cruelty to animals.