posted September 08, 2009 11:55 AM         

Non-violence and all that silly stuff, you know.

I thought you could respect that. Guess not.

posted September 08, 2009 12:01 PM         

The boards just seem so dead lately.

Somebody may as well post something.

This seemed worthwhile to me.

posted September 08, 2009 12:35 PM         

Last two images deleted for violating LLC forum policy on graphic and inappropriate content. Xodian

posted September 08, 2009 03:43 PM         

I liked the video.
Thanks, Valus.

posted September 08, 2009 10:03 PM         

Even I'm starting to find these threads annoying. I clicked on this one to really see a list of 30 reasons why something would be healthy and instead am treated to pictures with no warning?

Shock tactics don't put people on your side or make them listen - it turns them off and prompts them to ignore future threads or points you try to make.

posted September 09, 2009 11:00 AM         

I've eaten meat, recently as I mentioned in one of your threads a few months ago, for personal reasons, but I have been vegetarian (almost vegan but I drink milk because I like it) for years prior to my experiments. I am back to being vegetarian again, as meat and I didn't work out. I won't go into why I felt the need to try meat out, but I am the type that tests my position on any beliefs (right or wrong as that might be to YOU or anyone else) and I was happy to know that I still found meat repugnant.

I am one of those vegetarians that do not like the taste of meat, not those who crave it in secret but stop themselves because it is "WRONG" which I find to be a load of rubbish because such promotes shame in people. Promoting shame in people solves the problem in the short term. Many people who stop their behaviors due to shame usually regress through rebellion, and fall off the "wagon" so it is not a desired way of "changing" people's mind set. Any change of lifestyle must empower the person, not make them feel as if they are "bad". This is how change can be sustainable.

We change people through compassion, not through demonizing them.

You strike me as a new vegetarian or vegan, who is still riding on the novel cause that you have latched onto recently. I know the feeling because not eating meat really makes me feel good, or better. This is not for everyone though and to force anything down people's throats is counter productive. We can look to religion as an example. I commend you on taking a path and lifestyle that better suits you now, but self-righteousness is ugly and inhumane to those who may fall prey to your self-grandiose behavior, to view themselves as less when they are not! I hope you have not shamed anyone by your recent spamming of this forum.

There are many vegans and vegetarians on LL and we don not need to see the images that you are posting here. Can you at least be compassionate to one of your own, fellow vegetarians and vegans who have taken the steps which you preach, who DO NOT want to see slaughtered pigs and all these images you post? Can you at least be compassionate to us? I am not trying to separate vegetarians from meat eaters here. I am making a point. The point is that you are hurting everyone with these images, even those who have similar beliefs as yours.

posted September 09, 2009 01:28 PM         

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted September 09, 2009 10:33 PM         

Please?

posted September 09, 2009 10:58 PM         

A graphic image of someone picking a ripe tomato doesn't cause shame or revulsion because...well, think about it. Unmoved, I don't quite get your argument about shame.

The fact is that when we eat meat, we are eating a slaughtered animal, a sentient being. (Pigs will actually come when you call them by name.)

Everyone who is doing that is making a DECISION. And I think that's why graphic images are important. I don't think anyone would've censored out Valus's image if he'd shown a ham sandwich or a breakfast plate with bacon...which is actually the corpse of that same bloody pig, only set on fire.

Historically, there have been many societies of mindful hunters, who hunted sparingly, for survival, eating the whole creature and thanking it before the meal. It's VERY different from our current society, where many animals are tortured and brutalized, and then people do not want to think about where their food comes from.

I have personally made the mindful decision to eat meat. I was a vegetarian for many years, but then I travelled to places where I did not want to offend my hosts by refusing the food they offered. I cook and eat a vegetarian diet at home, but if I am someone's guest I eat what is served. I am supportive of local organic farms where meat animals are treated humanely, but I would prefer to live in a vegetarian world.

It's so sad what goes on in the world every day. I saw a video of turkeys being tortured by workers before they were slaughtered that made me cry. Maybe people are so viscious and brutal in order to distance themselves from the sickening thing they are doing, the thing they don't want to look at. Or, I don't know why.

But I do believe priveleged people with choices should not be allowed to buy products that involve cruelty or exploitation (of animals or other humans) without having to look at and think about what they are buying, what they are eating, the system they are contributing to.

posted September 10, 2009 12:56 AM         

Change your lifestyle because the new one is better for you, not because someone made you feel ashamed about your current one. Change your lifestyle because someone informed you of your choices and the benefits of the choices. Change because you were informed. Change your lifestyle because it is a natural progression of your awakening, not because someone bullied you and made you feel like sh*t for your previous lifestyle.

Is the word "guilt" a better word to use than shame?

I know, it is a difficult concept for some to grasp that to use "guilt" to get your way, is as hurtful as hurting those animals. So what? It is better to emotionally hurt humans than to physically hurt animals? And, if you think that being judged isn't hurtful, then... fine. I am wrong, and that's fine because I am often wrong. It is clear by the anger from people on this board that there are some hurt feelings around.

Oh, wait? There are different types of evil and some are allowed.

Well then. If so, my mistake.

posted September 10, 2009 01:01 AM         

edit: Seeing those horrible images after being made to feel vulnerable by those cute ones is like someone saying "open your mouth" expecting something delicious to only put something horrible in your mouth. It is cruel and not tasteful; but more than that... look... are we discussing the real point of this thread? No. So, it is also pointless.

posted September 10, 2009 01:08 AM         

quote:

---

Everyone who is doing that is making a DECISION

---

Yes, people need to know how the meat they buy is produced.

There are different people with different sensitivities. I can tell you (from experience) that somebody who slaughters animals for a living will not be repulsed by the graphic bloody images nor would they be touched by the cute ones. They are numb.
Valus is going about this in the way that he can. I don't find it offensive.

Unmoved, mere informing is usually not enough. If you are in the right mood, if you are ready to accept a new truth and make a change in your lifestyle, then getting informed works.

If you never thought about it, if your environment is not condusive to that kind of lifestyle, if you have a lot of peer pressure to be a certain way, then shocking works better.

posted September 10, 2009 01:11 AM         

guilt never worked for me.

posted September 10, 2009 01:33 AM         

You mean like a person who can't think for themselves? A person who has no opinion of their own? A sheeple?