posted November 09, 2009 01:09 PM         

Doesn't change the fact that I feel he is bang out of order on this one and NOTHING either of you says will change my mind.

Have a nice day.

posted November 09, 2009 01:12 PM         

does anyone want to argue that people who just want to do that are stupid? following base instinct? okay then, i say you are just showing your thinly disguised hatred for your fellow humans. without "breeders" there would BE no people.

of course it can be argued that NOT INCARNATING might be a happier, more spiritually fulfilling existence, but then WHY DID YOU? you think it was an accident? you are here just by a trick of cruel fate?
all i can say to that is...bollocks. of course you are entitled to your opinion, but then why not just top yourself and get it over with?

i consider this to be hypocrisy of the worst kind. intelligence of the mind is not superior to intelligence of the heart. which one is more important? actually i would choose the latter. the former has been responsible for most of the problems of our modern society.

at the SAME time i agree that people who do not want kids should not be judged for it, i say people who DO want kids are entitled to their lives too.

your aquarius is doing overtime, valus. you are a scorpio, and i expect deeper from you.

posted November 09, 2009 01:32 PM         

Hmmmm...

posted November 09, 2009 03:00 PM         

quote:

---

your aquarius is doing overtime, valus. you are a scorpio, and i expect deeper from you.

---

LOL. If you only knew. Your own comments here are so obvious, so utterly devoid of any reason for being repeated and so oblivious of all that has been said already, that I have no interest in talking with you at all. I have the sense that no matter how much care I take to explain myself you're just going to gloss over my replies and dig up the silliest and most irrelevant objections you can think of. You'll object to statements I havent made, answer questions I havent asked, and entirely neglect to face up to the points I have made and the questions I have asked. Let me know when you're ready to have this conversation, and not one of your own imagining. Good day, Madam.

posted November 09, 2009 03:20 PM         

edit: one day when you have run out of people who are willing to talk to you, maybe you will think about why THAT is.

posted November 10, 2009 12:35 AM         

My pregnancy was an accident. I never desired to have children either, and therefore feel no need to pass any moral/philosophical judgment upon those who choose not to. I chose to have my child because I felt that the fates had spoken, since I was using birth control when he was conceived. I do not, in any way, shape or form, regret it.

I suffered through a hard and complicated pregnancy that left me ill with diabetes and confined to bed rest for months, battled postpartum depression so terrible I nearly committed myself, and watched my "intelligent" friends abandon me when I needed them most. My body is now "ruined" and I often walk around in giant, stained hoodies with teething cookie crust on my jeans. I am a single mother. To call my choice to have my son selfish or to imply in any way that I did it to FEED my ego is staunchly wrong. What I've experienced since his birth has been nothing short of brutal ego death, thanks in large part to my generation who look upon procreation as something only uninspired people do. They say: if you can't do, breed. This belief is so hard-held in some circles that many of my friends, people who had known me intimately for years, slowly abandoned me upon the announcement of my pregnancy. In my former life, childbirth was what was unconventional, not the other way around. I am 27 years old and no one, virtually no one, in my social group has children.

I am not, however, an uninspired person. I:

* skipped a grade in elementary school due to enhanced performance

* was tested as reading on a college level in the 6th grade

* am a grad school student (earned my BA in Psychology w/ a minor in Non-Profit Management)

* am a several times published poet and author

* am a self taught musician (guitar, bass, banjo, accordion)

* can turn children's toys into effects pedals with my bare hands and a soldering iron

* love my son, who is going to be even smarter than I am.

I can't speak for Moonie's experience-- his feelings and thoughts, any joys or complaints he may have so far about being born. My feelings about the experience of parenthood, then, will clearly be one-sided and may seem to others "selfish;" but he's an individual who can't yet speak for himself, and I won't put words in his mouth.

Since having my son, all of the "fake" things in my life have melted away. I'm not the same person I was before he was born by any means. I am finding that I am "more real" now than I ever was before Moonie was born, since motherhood forced me to abandon the persona I'd built around my simplest self. All of my delusions of grandiose are gone, replaced by certainty of my tangibility only. My awareness of myself, the power of my femaleness, how magical I am (body and soul)- are more awake and alive in me than ever before. I'm concrete and immovable, and my son is the gift of chaos that his consciousness and my body teamed up to unleash upon the world.

What lives he'll touch, what passion's he'll feel and inspire, what things he'll create, and what paths he'll choose to travel I can't say. Regardless of what his life experience will ultimately be, by existing in the world he will change it. Even at a year old, with years ahead before he can really sink his teeth into reality, he's already a vital part of this world because he loves and is loved. What else is there?

Love, be loved. Love with sincerity and passion however it works for you to do so. Love your children, love your friends, love your partner, love yourself, love books, love music, love knowledge, love all of these things at once, love whatever. There is no such thing as "bad" love, is there?

posted November 10, 2009 08:06 AM         

quote:

---

Since having my son, all of the "fake" things in my life have melted away. I'm not the same person I was before he was born by any means. I am finding that I am "more real" now than I ever was before Moonie was born, since motherhood forced me to abandon the persona I'd built around my simplest self. All of my delusions of grandiose are gone, replaced by certainty of my tangibility only. My awareness of myself, the power of my femaleness, how magical I am (body and soul)- are more awake and alive in me than ever before. I'm concrete and immovable, and my son is the gift of chaos that his consciousness and my body teamed up to unleash upon the world.

---

posted November 10, 2009 09:21 AM         

Thank you for sharing that very personal story... Crying at work.

posted November 10, 2009 11:05 AM         

I would think your case is an exception to the rule. I mean the circumstances by which you had the child, the social groups to which you belong(ed), and your own experience of yourself and the world. I disagree with some of the opinions and behaviors of some of your friends, and I'm sorry that happened to you. I think it's right that you had Moonie, as I think it's right that all children are born. Whatever has happened is the work and will of God. At the same time, I feel that God is also working through me to provoke and promote a trend in another direction. It's difficult to convey my position in its entirety. The natal chart of my sister's boy, my nephew, is the most incredible I've ever seen. I'm happy he was born. I think there are many amazing souls coming into the world these days.

posted November 10, 2009 12:04 PM         

Most people can take it, and realize that it is rude to assume things and put their expectations on others and will most likely apologize. For those that do not see that as being rude, what can you do? Either not associate with them, or continue to point it out until they get it.