posted March 19, 2011 06:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
The web designers have all sorts of options like live chat on the website.
I am trying to figure out about this ,too.
I am trying to figure out if I should charge by the hour,or time minutes etc.
Also, I am trying to figure out which payment methods I should use.
If anyone has suggestions about any of these,I would love to hear them

The first reading free will work ,all the way around.
That is settled.

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posted March 19, 2011 06:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lonake:
Your argument is so outside of the world and its practical concerns. Many many people help others and are monetarily compensated. One very demanding profession I can think of right now is child care workers and also grade school and high school teachers. They are helping and are being provided monetary compensation. Not much, in terms of the care they provide, but then again the helping professions have never been very well compensated.

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I like to be outside of the world. good compliment

thanks

posted March 19, 2011 06:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by pire:
I like to be outside of the world. good compliment

thanks

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posted March 19, 2011 06:32 PM            

that is not WORKING to me.

posted March 19, 2011 06:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by lalalinda:
Call me superstitious
but I honestly believe if you exploit your "gift", you will lose it.

Since this is not about money but more of an altruistic gift
(and honing your craft)
you can limit your readings to one initially,
and from there ask for a donation either for yourself or for LL.
(personally I'd put it back in LL, because you have the benefit of LL's following)
If it "booms" then you can change it to a percentage.
But the choice is yours Dear Ami

I say this because in the end you will benefit tremendously.
You will build a following and from there the sky is the limit.

Give your best and you will recieve the best.

---

posted March 19, 2011 07:20 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by pire:
selling on spiritual matter is like rushing to a new continent and claiming to own it, then selling it to newcomers.

that is not WORKING to me.

I know what work is, I wake up at 3:45 am every day.

---

No judgment to anyone, but I do agree that selling Spritual stuff is risky business, and that it quickly becomes a nasty and quite corrupt practice.

posted March 19, 2011 07:49 PM            

The problem of money and spirituality is not new. There is nothing wrong with earning large sums of money. What matters is how you earn it and what you do with it after you've received it. You need not apologize for earning your daily bread (even large bushels of it) for any sort of labor you do which contributes something to the world, on any level. To receive cash compensation, you must put back into the world something of value, whether it be paintings, specialized services, clothings, automobiles, refrigerators, music, or entertainment. As long as you cheerfully and willingly give away half of what you have to those less fortunate, you needn't be ashamed to be a millionaire - or even a billionaire - because you have let go half, thereby allowing this "green energy" to circulate. (Also because you earned it by honest work.) Money is not evil. Only the use of it and the means of gaining it can cause it to be.

However, there is a singular rule and a metaphysical precept concerning the relationship between money and spiritual counsel. The rule is clear, and repeated in every holy work of every religion. Money must not change hands between esoteric teacher and student. This is why all churches, Catholic, Protestant, or Synagogue, do not permit their priests, ministers, or rabbis to accept money from the parishioners. These "teachers" are supported, their needs supplied by the church, which is, itself, supported by voluntary and anonymous donations from the general public.

It's unfortunate, for example, that there are no "churches" to support astrologers. They must "earn their daily bread" in some other manner, and perform their astrological counseling during their precious free time. It's unfortunate, yes, but not as much so when astrologers charge for their readings, since the ancient teachings say that the one who heeds not the warning forbidding the exchange of money between teacher and student will soon "lose the gift of perception," and consequently will no longer be sought by the "students".

To write about esoteric subjects of personal paths of enlightenment in books is not against this law. Books by everyone from actress Shirley MacLaine to Ruth Montgomery and dozens of astrological and metaphysical writers spread enlightenment in the spiritually approved way. The money received by the authors is for their labors at the typewriter, the talent of stringing words together, earned over years and years of practice and hard work. To earn your bread by writing is the same as to earn your bread by being a craftsman in any endeavor. (But, they'd still be best advised to share half of it with others in need!)

The money rule, is not the only road map you'll need on your journey down the Yellow Brick Road of metaphysics to the enchanting Oz of enlightenment. You need to also be forewarned, therefore forearmed, against the loss of your own individuality by trusting those who seek to control your mind and your personal intuition (teaching from within) through a form of mass hypnosis.

Dr. Edwin Morse, a former member of the University of Wisconsin's psychology faculty, following a study of self-help groups such as est, Lifespring, Forum Insight, and Actualizations states that "the graduates of such group programs, former cult members, are often psychologically scarred." He further contends that these groups are subjected to well-known and effective "hypnotic procedures - and not being told about it."

You do have a choice, whether you realize it yet or not. You can choose the dangerous turn in the Yellow Brick Road to enlightenment by following the deceptive Detour Sign to "group illumination," and risk becoming lost, while you pay, not only a high toll charge in dollars, but the higher price of stilling the always wise voice of your own personal Higher Self - your own intuition... being taught from within.

posted March 19, 2011 07:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlutoSquared:
Sun Signs, Introduction, Linda Goodman, pg. xxxii:

The problem of money and spirituality is not new. There is nothing wrong with earning large sums of money. What matters is how you earn it and what you do with it after you've received it. You need not apologize for earning your daily bread (even large bushels of it) for any sort of labor you do which contributes something to the world, on any level. To receive cash compensation, you must put back into the world something of value, whether it be paintings, specialized services, clothings, automobiles, refrigerators, music, or entertainment. As long as you cheerfully and willingly give away half of what you have to those less fortunate, you needn't be ashamed to be a millionaire - or even a billionaire - because you have let go half, thereby allowing this "green energy" to circulate. (Also because you earned it by honest work.) Money is not evil. Only the use of it and the means of gaining it can cause it to be.

However, there is a singular rule and a metaphysical precept concerning the relationship between money and spiritual counsel. The rule is clear, and repeated in every holy work of every religion. Money must not change hands between esoteric teacher and student. This is why all churches, Catholic, Protestant, or Synagogue, do not permit their priests, ministers, or rabbis to accept money from the parishioners. These "teachers" are supported, their needs supplied by the church, which is, itself, supported by voluntary and anonymous donations from the general public.

It's unfortunate, for example, that there are no "churches" to support astrologers. They must "earn their daily bread" in some other manner, and perform their astrological counseling during their precious free time. It's unfortunate, yes, but not as much so when astrologers charge for their readings, since the ancient teachings say that the one who heeds not the warning forbidding the exchange of money between teacher and student will soon "lose the gift of perception," and consequently will no longer be sought by the "students".

To write about esoteric subjects of personal paths of enlightenment in books is not against this law. Books by everyone from actress Shirley MacLaine to Ruth Montgomery and dozens of astrological and metaphysical writers spread enlightenment in the spiritually approved way. The money received by the authors is for their labors at the typewriter, the talent of stringing words together, earned over years and years of practice and hard work. To earn your bread by writing is the same as to earn your bread by being a craftsman in any endeavor. (But, they'd still be best advised to share half of it with others in need!)

The money rule, is not the only road map you'll need on your journey down the Yellow Brick Road of metaphysics to the enchanting Oz of enlightenment. You need to also be forewarned, therefore forearmed, against the loss of your own individuality by trusting those who seek to control your mind and your personal intuition (teaching from within) through a form of mass hypnosis.

Dr. Edwin Morse, a former member of the University of Wisconsin's psychology faculty, following a study of self-help groups such as est, Lifespring, Forum Insight, and Actualizations states that "the graduates of such group programs, former cult members, are often psychologically scarred." He further contends that these groups are subjected to well-known and effective "hypnotic procedures - and not being told about it."

You do have a choice, whether you realize it yet or not. You can choose the dangerous turn in the Yellow Brick Road to enlightenment by following the deceptive Detour Sign to "group illumination," and risk becoming lost, while you pay, not only a high toll charge in dollars, but the higher price of stilling the always wise voice of your own personal Higher Self - your own intuition... being taught from within.

Or you can choose an intimate Personal Odyssey, learning to listen to the voice of the Angel of your Higher Self. This is the road which will lead you directly to the Emerald City of enlightenment, not the Oz of pseudo wizards. And you need not walk the road alone. The words of an old song contain a true promise... "I believe for everyone who's gone astray... someone will come, to show the way."

---

posted March 19, 2011 08:07 PM            

That sounds like a really cool idea, to me.

posted March 19, 2011 08:09 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlutoSquared:
No problem TxGirl. Just thought I'd let Linda Goodman's excerpt be heard here. It's her memorial site, after all

---

posted March 19, 2011 08:23 PM            

quote:

---

INTRODUCTION :: xxxiii
The problem of money and spirituality is not new. There is nothing wrong with earning large sums of money. What matters is how you earn it and what you do with it after you've received it. You need not apologize for earning your daily bread (even large bushels of it) for any sort of labor you do which contributes something to the world, on any level. To receive cash compensation, you must put back into the world something of value, whether it be paintings, specialized services, clothings, automobiles, refrigerators, music, or entertainment. As long as you cheerfully and willingly give away half of what you have to those less fortunate, you needn't be ashamed to be a millionaire-or even a billionaire-because you have let go of half, thereby allowing this "green energy" to circulate. (Also because you earned it by hard work.) Money is not evil. Only the use of it and the means of gaining it can cause it to be.

---

To quote Linda again:

quote:

---

As long as you cheerfully and willingly give away half of what you have....

---

So exactly what is half here? Before or after one has taken care of their own needs, taxes, car payment and other living expenses? Half the earned income of a minimum wage part time worker and a billionaire are not at all the same thing. A percentage would make more sense! A poor man's tithe is still a legitimate tithe...even though far far less than a billionaire's tithe. But a tithe is still a tithe. The poor man gives away 1/2 and remains poor. The billionaire barely notices by comparison. All his reasonable needs are met, unlike the poor man's. All above reasonable needs is pure indulgence!
The often quoted saying of hers is however:

quote:

---

INTRODUCTION xxxiii

Money must not change hands between esoteric teacher and student.

---

Esoteric TEACHER....not service provider...
and STUDENT.....not client/customer.
Of which an Astrologer doing a reading, ie; performing a service, is not, nor is the client/customer receiving said services from the Astrologer a student.
Whereupon she goes on to state more odd things I consider to be contradictions; which has caused much confusion of the advice she gave.

quote:

---

INTRODUCTION xxxiii

It is unfortunate, for example, that there are no "churches" to support astrologers. They must "earn their daily bread" in some other manner, and perform their astrological counseling during their precious free time. It's unfortunate, yes, but not as much so as when astrologers charge for their readings, since the ancient teachings say that the one who heeds not the warning forbidding the exchange of money between teacher and student will soon "lose the gift of perception," and consequently will no longer be sought by the "students."

---

Note: Some Spiritualist Churches and New Age Centers DO support their Astrologers and Readers in monetary ways.

to continue:
she said:

quote:

---

To receive cash compensation, you must put back into the world something of value, whether it be paintings, specialized services, clothings, automobiles, refrigerators, music, or entertainment. As long as you cheerfully and willingly give away half of what you have to those less fortunate, you needn't be ashamed to be a millionaire-or even a billionaire-because you have let go of half, thereby allowing this "green energy" to circulate. (Also because you earned it by hard work.)

---

Astrologers doing readings are performing a "SERVICE".....as are any Readers or Councilors, or persons involved in a Provider of Service/Client arrangement. Such are NOT in an Esoteric Teacher/Student relationship! Why Linda chose to tie her own hands thusly, and to tell others this, eludes me. I see no Teacher/Student Relationship under those circumstances!
She did sell her books after all.

quote:

---

xxxiv INTRODUCTION

To write about esoteric subjects or personal paths of enlightenment in books is not against this law. Books by everyone from actress Shirley MacLaine to Ruth Montgomery and dozens of astrological and metaphysical writers spread enlightenment in the spiritually approved way. The money received by the authors is for their labors at the typewriter, the talent of stringing words together, earned over years of practice and hard work. To earn your bread by writing is the same as to earn your bread by being a craftsman in any endeavor.

---

I found that to be a rather disturbing and self serving viewpoint. And oddly are contradictory in nature to her previous statement of the Teacher/Student relationship, where no money must pass hands between them. So...unless a person writes a book...whereby they do indeed become the "TEACHER"and the purchaser "$" of said book does indeed become the "STUDENT"....it is ok then because the publisher and seller take care of the money exchange between teacher and student? Whether one writes a book or teaches in person orally....it is still a TEACHER/STUDENT relationship and masking that behind the selling of books is a contradiction. Both the writer teacher and the in person teacher are teachers! The only difference is one was lucky enough to get published!
I must respectfully disagree with Linda.
1.Astrologers are Not teaching when they provide readings or charts.
They are performing a valuable "SERVICE", as with anyone performing any type of "service".
2.Astrologers who teach, be it in person or through books....are still performing a valuable service, and deserve that "green energy"as compensation for their time and effort to serve the student/customer.
Would you expect to not pay for tutoring in any subject matter?
So colleges and or tech schools and Seminary schools should be free?
Your Karate instructor, your therapist, your mechanic, your meditation coach, etcetera, should not be paid?
Yeah...it would be great if everything was free! But in our society that is not logical nor practical and is highly disrespectful to expect "some" to just give their "services rendered" away for free.
These issues have been on my mind ever since I heard of them.
It's not my intention to offend or insult Linda's words. I simply see in some of them a few grave contradictions, and ask why?
And all I have heard back concerning the issue, was again, the often quoted phrase:

quote:

---

Money must not change hands between esoteric teacher and student.

---

To continue with Linda's own words on the matter of "her personal rules and truths", which many have taken to heart as Linda's way is the only way!
That is NOT what Linda said!

quote:

---

xxxviii INTRODUCTION
Neither should you blindly accept, on your quest for truth, the validity of the star sign codes of the Universe I offer in this book-until you have practiced and carefully tested each one, so that you can decide for yourself rather than take my word for it.

---

To continue, in Linda's own words:

quote:

---

xl INTRODUCTION
However, I do not ask-nor do I even expect-any of you to regard my concepts as your truth, unless they should happen to agree with your own personal enlightenment and private convictions.

---

Concerning truth:

quote:

---

INTRODUCTION xli
But real Truth can be found in one place only-in every man's and woman's communion with an eternal Source of hidden Knowledge within-which each individual must seek and find for himself or herself.

---

I do not believe that Linda had intended for any of us to set her up high upon a pedestal and worship her blindly nor even agree with her or follow her way, her path.
One should however when it comes to helping those who cannot afford to pay, or pay much, or who are truly suffering, to endeavor to still serve them...Freely at no cost to them.....but freely giving, altruistically, of our time and energy.
Additionally; if the sole purpose of any such rendering of service is totally motivated by the lure of the almighty dollars$ then one is doing it for the wrong reasons.
"Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering Or The Dire Needs Of Others"

posted March 19, 2011 08:27 PM            

It's like having a child come to you for a hug, and charging them five dollars, each time.

posted March 19, 2011 08:32 PM            

quote:

---

Said by Querant:
They all seem to suggest the same thing, that fees weren't to be charged for instruction in a craft or tradition. One of the reasons for apprenticeships, perhaps? Who knows?

---

My reply:
An apprentice works for free for the teacher. The teacher can make money off the things the apprentice produces. Being an apprentice was never a free ride. Some exchange was there, be it working without pay, barter, trade, or actually paying. Sometimes as simple as letting the master live with one whilst teaching. Money is the exchange most common now, not barter.

quote:

---

Said by Querant:
(Teaching a craft seems separate from charging for the actual practicing of that craft.

---

My reply:
A teacher is a teacher in any time and place. A teacher needs to live too. That is like saying teachers in medical schools for example should not be paid, and their students can go on to become wealthy doctors. Whether it be basket weaving, or training to be a doctor, auto mechanic, interior decorator, whatever...teachers need to be paid.

quote:

---

Said by Querant:
But, to charge for the TEACHING of a craft, seems in violation of that natural law, IMHO.

---

My reply:
So what is a craft and when does not paying the teacher considered a good thing? Would you expect someone who spins and weaves, to teach their craft to you for free just so you or anyone can then go out and sell your/their wares and cut into the teacher's livelihood? What was/is a teacher's worth? Hey thanks teach!???? Yeah right! That puts food on the teacher's table. In an ideal world all learning should be free. But as long as there is no other way for teachers of anything to live and eat and pay bills, teachers do need paid. Linda got paid for writing. A teacher gets paid for teaching. I see no difference at all. And while she did not charge she claims, for astrological readings, she did get paid in a round about way for astrological information by way of it being in essence laundered by her publishers.
Even after crossing over, her books are still bringing in the almighty $$$$$!

Re-read what she said again. She contradicted herself and feebly attempted to justify her contradictions.

So again I ask...exactly what craft(s) should a student be taught for free and what teachers should never be paid?
The students win here, and can then go forth and make a living with what was taught to them.
The teacher is left empty handed, and gave away time and energy for nothing. Not an equitable exchange at all, and treating a teacher as just a thing to be used. The craftsman gets paid, so why not the teacher?

So what free taught crafts are being considered here?

People have warped what Linda said to try to get freebies. One should give out free personalized in depth astrology reports, Lexigrams, and so forth for free in many folks' minds. These things take hours to days or even more. The one receiving does none of the work or time involved. Yet one's providing such are expected to by many to take hours to days or more of their precious time just for a "hey thanks!" Yeah right. And by that token the books on such should be free if teaching these things right? That is ridiculous!
I do not believe that Linda had intended for any of us to set her up high upon a pedestal and worship her blindly nor even agree with her or follow her way, her path.

posted March 19, 2011 08:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LEXX:
[b]What is a teacher, what is a service?
It seems most folks quote Linda as saying never charge. That is not how I interpreted her words.
To quote her;
From STAR SIGNS
Concerning truth:
[QUOTE]INTRODUCTION xli
But real Truth can be found in one place only-in every man's and woman's communion with an eternal Source of hidden Knowledge within-which each individual must seek and find for himself or herself.

---

I do not believe that Linda had intended for any of us to set her up high upon a pedestal and worship her blindly nor even agree with her or follow her way, her path.
One should however when it comes to helping those who cannot afford to pay, or pay much, or who are truly suffering, to endeavor to still serve them...Freely at no cost to them.....but freely giving, altruistically, of our time and energy.
Additionally; if the sole purpose of any such rendering of service is totally motivated by the lure of the almighty dollars$ then one is doing it for the wrong reasons.
"Do Not Seek Wealth From The Suffering Or The Dire Needs Of Others"

[/B][/QUOTE]

posted March 19, 2011 08:41 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by PlutoSquared:
Interesting critique, LEXX. My personal views? Most people who come for any sort of psychic/astrological reading are usually in some sort of a desperate state - either needing guidance, clarification, or confirmation...

It's like having a child come to you for a hug, and charging them five dollars, each time.

I just don't like the "feel" of that, at all.

---

I agree,
But then no astrologer should get paid?
No writer should be paid for self help books?

No esoteric service provider should be paid?

Where does one draw the line?

I have and still struggle with this issue.
Hence I remain poor when I could be wealthy if I charged for all I had given and still do.
I shall continue to do so, as I am able,
but I am not being recompensed for my precious time but rarely, and usually not in cash but a turkey or fast food coupons and such.
Thank yous do not pay me back for my time given away.
Thank yous do not help me live my life without such hardships.

posted March 19, 2011 08:44 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LEXX:
I agree,
But then no astrologer should get paid?
No writer should be paid for self help books?

No esoteric service provider should be paid?

Where does one draw the line?

I have and still struggle with this issue.
Hence I remain poor when I could be wealthy if I charged for all I had given and still do.
I shall continue to do so, as I am able,
but I am not being recompensed for my precious time but rarely, and usually not in cash but a turkey or fast food coupons and such.
Thank yous do not pay me back for my time given away.
Thank yous do not help me live my life without such hardships.

---

posted March 19, 2011 08:49 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
She didn't contradict herself at all, LEXX. Linda was paid for constructing words in a readable format, i.e. being a writer. She was quite clear about what the difference is. She also did not say teachers couldn't get paid. She said when it is of a Spiritual nature. That's why you can't pay yor minister. You donate to the church instead. People can have differing opinions, but Linda was very clear on explaining what she believed.

---

So I ask again.....
Astrologers (or any readers of any kind) should do readings for free?
And only get paid if they write astrology books?
Or talk shows or do like Hays and others, charge big money $$$$$$ for so called spiritual/esoteric seminars and cruises?
That just sounds so warped in my opinion.

And readers are not in a student teacher relationship but a reader/client relationship.
So yes, I feel Linda's words are being misunderstood.

posted March 19, 2011 08:50 PM            

This thread seemed like an invitation for wide-range opinion. We're reading this in Ooober galaxy, and for some reason now it's relevant. Then, I gave my opinion: Donate all money to charity.

Kill two birds with one stone...

posted March 19, 2011 08:57 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
LEXX, yes, ministers get paid. But there is a very big difference in being paid by the persons you counsel and the church. This rule is not Linda's. The only controversy is whether or not astrologers fit that group. Linda thought so. On that, many disagree.

---

posted March 19, 2011 08:58 PM            

If I had something I enjoyed doing for someone and could make money at the same time I may charge for it. I don't know, I'll never be in that spot. But, even if she charged cheaper or gave half away, or did one free reading for one charged reading.

I think that as long as you do whatever you do with pure love, a thank you would suffice for me. And, not using all the money for self gain and just to make your life so "great" but using it to better the world, I mean you can't really go wrong.

But, I'd rather be under a bridge and happily helping people than in a beautiful house with tons of money- like movie stars who could save a whole 3rd world country..but alas

Living under a bridge with no food, no sleep, no safety- what kind of help can i really give out? An ear, a shoulder maybe. Not food, not money, not a ride somewhere, not a place to sleep.

I mean you can go either way with this, just do what is right for YOU. What feels right in your heart, and I don't think there is any going wrong. I go with my heart more than my mind because society/religion/media tends to want to make me think a certain way.