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Author Topic:   If the Flag of the United States Offends You
jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 356
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 27, 2009 09:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
If the flag of the United States offends you then the rest of what I have to said on that subject is going to offend you even more.

If the flag of the United States offends you then don't work for an employer who flies our flag.

If the flag of the United States offends you then don't do business with a company who flies that flag.

If the flag of the United States offends you then get your medical treatment from a doctor or hospital who doesn't fly our flag. Cuba is nice this time of year.

If the flag of the United States offends you then get your sorry a$$ out of the United States and don't ever come back here.

May 26, 2009 10:07 pm US/Central
Supervisor Asks Woman To Take Down American Flag
Reporting Carol Cavazos MANSFIELD (CBS 11 News)

Is it okay to show your patriotism at the office?

For one Arlington woman, the answer was "no" after she hung an American flag in her office just before the Memorial Day weekend.

Debbie McLucas is one of four hospital supervisors at Kindred Hospital in Mansfield. Last week, she hung a three-by-five foot American flag in the office she shares with the other supervisors.

When McLucas came to work Friday, her boss told her another supervisor had found her flag offensive. "I was just totally speechless. I was like, 'You're kidding me,'" McLucas said.

McLucas' husband and sons are former military men. Her daughter is currently serving in Iraq as a combat medic.

Stifling a cry, McLucas said, "I just wonder if all those young men and women over there are really doing this for nothing."

McLucas said the supervisor who complained has been in the United States for 14 years and is formerly from Africa. McLucas said the supervisor took down Debbie's flag herself.

"The flag and the pole had been placed on the floor," McLucas said. But McLucas also said hospital higher ups had told her some patients' families and visitors had also complained.

"I was told it wouldn't matter if it was only one person," she said. "It would have to come down."

McLucas said hospital bosses told her as far as patriotism was concerned, the flag flying outside the hospital building would have to suffice.

Kindred Hospital Corporate Headquarters are located in Kentucky. They have yet to make a final decision on the matter. They have not returned our phone calls for comment.

The Kindred Hospital Corporation was chosen as Fortune's most admired for 2009. McLucas hopes they'll back her patriotism.

"I find it very frightening because if I can't display my flag, what other freedoms will I lose before all is said and done," McLucas asked.

http://cbs11tv.com/local/patriotism.at.office.2.1020415.html

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 373
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 27, 2009 09:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

There are some Native Americans that don't like the American Flag too.

Are you going to tell them to get out???

Raymond

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 356
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 27, 2009 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Anyone who lives in the United States and takes advantage of all America has to offer and is offended by the symbol of our nation..those should hit the road for greener pastures.

And Glaucus, I mean anyone. The idea the US flag should be taken down because some whiner is offended is offensive in the extreme.

I know the US flag offends your guy O'Bomber who refused to wear a lapel flag pin and refused to give proper respect to the National Anthem...and my comments include O'Bomber. Get the hell out of the United States and pursue your citizen of the world bullshiiit elsewhere.

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katatonic
Knowflake

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posted May 27, 2009 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
just for balance sake, respecting the flag and wanting it staring you down all day are too different things. it's a question of taste and degree. run your own flag is not the same as bringing your own decorations to work. to each his own.

i would equally object to someone bringing a huge picture of their daughter to my office.

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Dervish
Knowflake

Posts: 68
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posted May 28, 2009 12:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
I really don't understand what could possibly be offensive about this. Especially right around friggin Memorial Day.

And Saudi Arabia is one of the very few countries in the world that I almost completely dislike. But if I were getting health care there, I can't imagine the gall it would take to complain about the local flag in someone's office. (That's even before counting what would probably happen to you by the local authorities for complaining about it...)

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katatonic
Knowflake

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posted May 28, 2009 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
no it seems silly. but people are entitled to their opinions. it's just one against the other really...but i would think your home was the place to run the flag, not a shared office. that's imposing your preferences on everyone else.

still you would think they could talk about it instead of making it an employer-employee standoff.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 356
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 28, 2009 01:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Oh dear, the foreign born person didn't want to see the US flag because it offends her. Whatever can we do to make it up to her?

Let's say we don't want to see pictures of her family on her desk and wall because we find them offensive and repulsive.

Let's say we find her perfume odorific and offensive.

Let's say we find her personal hygiene offensive and repugnant.

Then, let's deport her back to Africa and place a flag of the United States in every office in America and perhaps we can get the rest of the offended whiners to identify themselves so we can deport them too.

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katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 625
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posted May 28, 2009 05:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
nowhere in the constitution does it say we have to have the flag in every location we visit or spend time in. maybe some people find the design distracting at work. no one's desecrating it or denigrating it! it's a little busy for wallpaper if you ask me.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 356
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 28, 2009 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
BS katatonic. There is no Constitutional issue here but whenever/where ever the US flag is not welcome in the US, it's time for those who are offended by a symbol of our nation to hit the road back where ever they came from...pronto.

Besides, the issue arose over this foreign born sap..working here in the US being offended by the US flag.

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katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 625
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posted May 28, 2009 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
whatever. there are plenty of solid citizens who are not emotional about the flag. i don't have one. many people are not even allowed to bring their own coffee cups to work. loving the flag is not compulsory. its a symbol not a magic carpet.

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 373
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 28, 2009 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
"BS katatonic. There is no Constitutional issue here but whenever/where ever the US flag is not welcome in the US, it's time for those who are offended by a symbol of our nation to hit the road back where ever they came from...pronto."

man.....get out of here with that crap!

That won't fly with the Native Americans

they were in USA long before anybody else was.


your jingoism is very disturbing!

I am glad that I don't know you in person.


Raymond

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Dervish
Knowflake

Posts: 68
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posted May 28, 2009 10:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dervish     Edit/Delete Message
I don't see anything wrong with flying another flag, either. In the case of a native american, he could get a flag of his own if he wanted to make a statement:
http://www.tmealf.com/native_american/n-a.htm

IMO, it would be a good conversation starter, and probably draw more people into conversation than the standard USA flag. (He could also hang another American flag upside down, though it would probably be counterproductive if trying to share his views...I'm personally glad that the government normally can't stop you from doing that anyway, should you want and aren't disruptive about it.)

'Course a Nazi flag would be begging for trouble--especially after someone put up an Israeli flag in response. But even with the Nazi flag and the few others that would bother me, I'd rather be forewarned anyway.

Assuming this is a private hospital (and receive no direct government funding), they have the right to set their own standards. But if they do accept direct funding, then freedom of expression applies ('course this includes any other type of flag, too).

Given the policy of "if it offends anybody," if she wants to sink to his level, she can find something of his to be offended by now, too. What comes around goes around...

I just don't get what could be so offensive about having an American flag up (assuming it's not in anyone's way). I don't care one way or another about flags, but if I ever run an office and someone complains about a flag, I'd probably tell them to call a whambulance, or ask if they'd like some french cries to go with their whine. (And I can feel for someone who has a family full of soldiers, including one on active duty, who puts up a flag around Memorial Day.) The only way I could see supporting taking it down would be if it somehow hurt biz (and I don't see that happening with the USA flag--at least as long as it's not upside down ).

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 356
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 28, 2009 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
I strongly suspect you are personally offended by the United States flag Glaucus. Yep Glaucus, it shows and it shows on your Marxist icon O'Bomber too.

Foreigners are not going to come here and tell us to take our flags down because it offends them. Up theirs and get the hell out. Go be a citizen of the world somewhere else.

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Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 34
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 29, 2009 01:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message

Let me see how the Japanese businesses, clinics, etc around here would feel if I walked in and told them how offended I was that they were flying their own flag ... in their own country ... especially on/around any national Japanese holiday.


I can't imagine them being anything but offended at my taking offense. And I sure as hell can't imagine them taking down their flag ... they don't seem to suffer from the same bs guilt complex that so many Americans seem to suffer from. And people complain about things like this because they know some Americans will be eager to accomodate them. Pretending differences don't exist as opposed to tolerating each other's differences seems to be par for the course now.


The Japanese flag is everywhere and it doesn't bother me one bit. Why would it? I'm in Japan! If I were in France, why would I be offended by the French flag? I can't even see how it is a divisive kind of expression. It's the country's flag being flown in its own country, geez.


This "issue" is hilarious and I can't believe anyone takes it seriously enough to try to make it a real issue.

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MyVirgoMask
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Posts: 656
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posted May 29, 2009 02:33 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MyVirgoMask     Edit/Delete Message
Nationalism (and mindless flag-waving) does not make one more of a patriot.


And were you at the wine bar last night, Jwhop?
Some random stranger-male was eavesdropping on my conversation launched into me about wanting to move back to CA and said it should be nuked along with North Korea!
He also said he hated Obama (maybe it wasn't you after all, he didn't call him O'Bomber ).

The whole thing was quite out of the blue and rather startling, I must say. Even my (Republican!) date was more than a little thrown off by the incident

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katatonic
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posted May 29, 2009 03:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
exactly eleanore. it's another storm in a teacup.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 356
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 29, 2009 09:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
I disagree, there is a principle involved here and it's an important principle. Eleanore made it clear. When in Rome, do as the Romans do...or in Japan or in France or anywhere else. And most certainly do not presume to tell others when you are in their country what they must or must not do to prevent you from being "offended".

Americans are generally pretty laid back. I don't know anyone who would be offended if someone from France put up a French flag on Bastille Day or if a person from Mexico put up a Mexican flag on Cinco de Mayo...provided they didn't fly that flag above the US flag if there was one present.

I don't now and never have flown the US flag on my property or at my businesses over the years. That doesn't mean I'm ashamed of the symbol of the United States. There are other considerations such as the proper display of the flag, maintenance and being there to put the flag up and take it down in accordance with the laws.

However, anyone who would come to me and express an opinion that I shouldn't fly that flag on my property or that it offended them would leave with the very clear and concise location of where they could stuff their complaint and grievance.

I'm surprised you were "out" with a Republican MVM. I would have thought your ideal date would be someone like Michael Moore or Sean Penn.

No MVM, that wasn't me last night at the wine bar. Personally, I don't think there's a need to nuke California. They're doing an excellent job of destroying themselves without any outside help.


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Glaucus
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Posts: 373
From: Sacramento,California
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 29, 2009 12:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message
Please don't assume that I am offended by the American flag. I was in the navy for 7 years,and I had no problem saluting the flag.


I was trying to make a point that there are people that came here long before Europeans did.

The Native Americans are the original Americans. They were here first.

If you tell them a Native American to go back to where they come from, where do they go?


You come off more jingoist than patriotic.


I don't like it when people tell people to go back to Africa or some other place because they don't share the same views as other people.

I don't have to go any where. I was born in USA,and so were both my parents,and their parents,and their parents. Some of my ancestors were voluntary immigrants. Some of my ancestor were involuntary immigrants. Some of my ancestors are natives of this country.


Another thing

President Barack Obama is not an icon of mine.

Nobody is an icon of mine.

If there was icon, he would be Dr. Martin Luther King Jr, I would also say Frederick Douglass too. Those were people that I grew up admiring.

Raymond

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 356
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 29, 2009 12:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Stop making excuses for those who are here in the United States and find the US flag offensive Glaucus.

You made it crystal clear that O'Bomber is your leftist Marxist icon.

How far would you like to go back in history Glaucus. There is proof Caucasians were here before the Native Americans of Asian ancestry who drifted down from the north from Siberia across the Straights of Siberia via a land bridge which is now underwater. A Caucasian skeleton was found dating from about 9300 years ago...which predates any Native American settlements in what is now the United States. Not only that Glaucus but other Caucasoid remains have been found in the Untied States dating from about 7000 years and older.

Who are those "Native Americans" you're talking about or should I say "which".

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Glaucus
Knowflake

Posts: 373
From: Sacramento,California
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posted May 29, 2009 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Glaucus     Edit/Delete Message

Hey...I am about to each his own

Personally, I think anybody should be able to have any flag with him/her as they damned please.

I don't see why should people get offended for having an American Flag nor ANY OTHER flag for that matter.


This nation is a nation of many cultures,nations,ethnic groups,races,religions. A real meltingpot. I am very proud of that. There is no other place that I would feel comfortable when it comes to diversity. I live my life diversely. I am not pinned down to any culture,ethnic group,race, gender,not even things like religion. I certainly can't be pinned down neurologically.

heck...I am going to become a member of unity church this Sunday, and it's all about tolerance and acceptance of diversity.


I just get annoyed with self righteous people telling others that they need to go to some other land because they don't share their views nor practices. That smacks of jingoism. Self righteousness is one of the main problems in our country. It tends to be combined with hypocrisy.

I am all about tolerance of diversity. I was born from it,I live it,I will marry it,and I will die in it. No if's or buts about that. My largest petpeeve of all is intolerance of diversity.


I am very grateful that I was born in 1971 instead of 1941 like my father and 1929 like my stepfather. My future children will be more lucky to be born in this millennium. Our nation gets more diverse as the time passes. That's how it should be.


There is always progression. I consider myself a progressive type than a liberal type. I am not ashamed to say that I am very liberal overall. I am no Marxist,and I am no socialist. I have no icon to worship,and I don't worship anybody except the divine in life. After all,I am a pantheist. I believe that the divine is in all things.


That's all I have to say.


Raymond

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 356
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 29, 2009 03:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
Actually Glaucus, this is the United States and I have a hot flash for all who seek to force their foreign ideas on Americans...like this African who was offended by the US Flag.

We are a nation of immigrants but have you or anyone else here ever considered what that actually means?

We are here precisely because we didn't like it where we came from...or our parents didn't like it where they were...or our grandparents, great grandparents or great great grandparents decided they liked America better than where they were.

In other words Glaucus, we've been there and experienced foreign governments, foreign economies, foreign opportunities and foreign concepts of liberty justice and freedom or our ancestors were there.

For some reason either we or our ancestral line decided American concepts of government, economies, opportunities, along with justice, liberty and freedom suited us/them better.

So, when some half baked foreign national comes to America and insists we abandon our customs, traditions, rights or concepts about our national symbols or anything else, they can stuff it where the sun don't shine and go home..where they obviously liked it better. And, in my opinion, the sooner the better.

One other thing. There are no walls around America to keep people here. All are free to leave and if the grass looks greener over there, it's no secret where the US borders are. We don't ask much of those who want to come to the United States but one thing should be made crystal clear to all who do. You're attempting to join us, we are not joining you in your ideas of government, economics, liberty, justice and freedom or anything else.


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katatonic
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posted May 29, 2009 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message
this wasn't just one immigrant coworker, but a bunch of customers as well. like i said, some places don't let you bring your own coffee cup to work with you. others are completely blase. corporate is corporate and the workers are not top priority, the money is. unfortunately the united states are more of a corporation than nation these days.

eleanore is a visitor where she is, not a citizen, if i have deduced her situation rightly.

it seems freedom of speech is only for those who hold the same ideas of this country that you do jwhop. some freedom.

what good is a flag if you can't handle a little disagreement about it?

and as for people going where the grass is greener you completely miss the point. an involved citizen doesn't just leave, they work to better things. the days when there were lots of wide open spaces for people to move to are basically gone. we are living in a different paramater now. and the constitution has amendment written into it, therefore it has evolved over the years.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 356
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 29, 2009 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message
What it seems like to me is that Eleanore has it right. Eleanore is in Japan and wouldn't so much as think she should criticize Japanese culture, traditions, their flag, laws, government or anything else in Japanese society; much less express the sentiment that any of those things offend her.

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Isis
Knowflake

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From: Brisbane, Australia
Registered: May 2009

posted June 02, 2009 01:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Isis     Edit/Delete Message
I'm living in Australia at the moment, and I'm with Eleanore: I would never deign to tell them their flag offends me. If I did, they would tell me to get stuffed and go back to the US. And they'd be completely within their rights to do so.

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fatinkerbell
Knowflake

Posts: 10
From: South Korea
Registered: May 2009

posted June 02, 2009 03:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for fatinkerbell     Edit/Delete Message
"A Caucasian skeleton was found dating " ... That is very strange. You would think it didn't have any body to go out with.

------------------
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter.

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