Posts: 5197
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 11:32 AM            

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Yes, Randall, it very clearly was self-Moderated. Resorting to trying to involve you was always a last resort in the past. The drama would carry on for however long it carried on, everyone would get tired of, and cooler heads would prevail. That's the way it worked for years.

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Posts: 7739
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 11:38 AM            

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No, that is how you thought it was. I was behind the scenes via e-mailing the parties, playing diplomat, and banning as necessary when one of my Mods notified me. Whether it was Zala, Unmoved, Charmaine, or a few of the other very active ones at the time who contacted me. I did start posting more in the recent past, but I was never MIA. You have no idea what was going on or my role in rectifying problems over the years. All you know is what you see on the board. And daring me to ban you is just outright disrespectful. Would you not agree?

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"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

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Posts: 7739
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 11:44 AM            

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And no, you are not well-behaved due to being awesome (which may or may not be true). You do so out of respect for the site's rules, a love for the site and what it stands for and what you get from it, or fear of being banished for bad behavior (or a combination of two or all three). If a person behaves badly and is popular, what recourse is there? People support their friends--even when they are wrong. And if people ignore the party, that doesn't stop the problem. But outright disregard for the rules, public defiance of them, and someone disrespectfully daring me to ban them, well, that pretty much crosses the line.

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"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

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Posts: 5197
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 11:52 AM            

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I know that far more was resolved without you than you're trying to take credit for right now. I know that I've personally gotten troublemakers to voluntarily leave of their own accord, because this place clearly didn't suit them.

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And daring me to ban you is just outright disrespectful. Would you not agree?

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As a matter of fact, I would.

When I had my secret forum that everyone blew up about, one of the things people found strange was that I made everyone Moderators. That was by design, so that no individual Moderator would feel powerful, and would consider what they did very carefully. I didn't want any of them to be driven by ego.

Feelings of being disrespected is just ego. What I see is that T is telling you that she doesn't submit to anyone's rule. She is free, and she will live free. It's integrity. If she were really an evil person, then her reputation would undo her on its own. But, being a person of sound mind and solid principles, there should be no reason for her to accept a minority judgment that she's wrong.

In negotions, the person who cares less always has the stronger hand. Something to bear in mind.

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Posts: 5197
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 11:56 AM            

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I'm generally well behaved all around. I have the occasion misstep, but I'm pretty even tempered and even handed. I like this site. It is home to a certain degree. I don't do anything out of respect for the site's rules. I can't even cite them for you, except for the personal insults since that's fresh. The site isn't even really the site. That's the point I keep trying to convey. The site is the people. I know the pure essence.

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Posts: 7739
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 11:56 AM            

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And personally, I think this is way too much energy to spend over an issue that is a moot point. T has already stated that she is leaving for good and that she doesn't care about being banned. So, my only reason to address this at all is to make it known that yes, we do have rules here. I allow a wide latitude in the name of freedom of expression, but once it gets clearly personal, I or a Mod will step in and issue a gentle reminder not to hurl personal insults (although GU is allowed somewhat more leeway than the other Forums). We have lost people from Lindaland due to the wide latitude in GU (Glaucus comes to mind). If that latitude extended to the whole site, Lndaland would crumble. Newflakes should not be sujected to contention on a site in Linda's name. But all of the other stuff I said aside, don't ever ever ever blatantly tell a Mod that you are not going to observe the rules and outright dare us to ban you; if so, you most assuredly will get your wish.

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"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

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Posts: 8760
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted April 21, 2011 11:58 AM            

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quote:

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Originally posted by AcousticGod:
I know that far more was resolved without you than you're trying to take credit for right now. I know that I've personally gotten troublemakers to voluntarily leave of their own accord, because this place clearly didn't suit them.

As a matter of fact, I would.

When I had my secret forum that everyone blew up about, one of the things people found strange was that I made everyone Moderators. That was by design, so that no individual Moderator would feel powerful, and would consider what they did very carefully. I didn't want any of them to be driven by ego.

Feelings of being disrespected is just ego. What I see is that T is telling you that she doesn't submit to anyone's rule. She is free, and she will live free. It's integrity. If she were really an evil person, then her reputation would undo her on its own. But, being a person of sound mind and solid principles, there should be no reason for her to accept a minority judgment that she's wrong.

In negotions, the person who cares less always has the stronger hand. Something to bear in mind.

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This ,to me, is totally crazy

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Why have a finely manicured lawn and be crying on the inside?

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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Posts: 8760
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted April 21, 2011 11:59 AM            

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No one should call someone a"piece of ##$$"
PERIOD END
Where does T get off being the "one" to do that?
That is not Democracy.That is Autocracy.

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Why have a finely manicured lawn and be crying on the inside?

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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Posts: 7739
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:02 PM            

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It's fresh? Really? That has been the main rule from the beginning. No personal insults. It's on the main page. It's on the sign-up page. It's been the cause of bannings. You are certainly entitled to your opnion, and as long as you obey the basic decorum here, you may continue to express it...and for whatever reason you seem to do so (behave), it is appreciated. Actually, it has nothing to do with ego. I'm not hurt at all. Or offended in the least. Just like your buddy, Valus, if you defy me to ban you, you can expect to get banned.

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"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

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Posts: 7739
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:07 PM            

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And the popularity of the person should not come into play. Carlo was way popular. But I couldn't allow racism here. You just can't say anything you want--not here anyway. Everyone here isn't a Mod. Being a Mod is an honor. At least it is to me to give it to someone I trust, and I would hope it is to the one who accepts it. It is never given lightly, and I hope it isn't ever accepted lightly.

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"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

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Posts: 1700
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:08 PM            

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Where does T get off being the "one" to do that?

That portion is over for us

Self moderation is a nobal cause and proof is in the pudding it can`t be accomplished in a site as large as Lindaland.

Perhaps a smaller group as you mentioned AG but over all, self discipline is too painful for most.

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~The Earth Laughs In Flowers~
... Emerson

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Posts: 5197
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:11 PM            

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Lindaland, remarkably didn't crumble under the way it was. In fact, it had some stellar personalities which promoted membership (PeaceAngel, Jane, DarkDreamer, CPN/Sunshine, etc.). Crumbling wasn't in the cards. It's more likely to crumble under rule. It is a Scorpio after all.

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It's fresh? Really?

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Fresh in my mind. I couldn't say I didn't know that rule when you'd just been talking about it.

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Actually, it has nothing to do with ego. I'm not hurt at all. Or offended in the least.

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That's false. You said it was disrespectful yourself. You can't turn around and say you don't care now.

Your only power over people is your power to ban. You think any freedom-loving person here is going to respond to a threat of banning any other way? Really? That seems like a naive premise to go off of. You have to understand the reason for the defiance.

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Posts: 7739
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:13 PM            

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Thank you, Juni. You always think clearly. Having Moderation at Lindaland is very difficult in and of itself, so self-moderation is fallacious-thinking at it's best (worst). Maybe it worked in the first couple of years when we were small (as long as people didn't get offended). But most people want to come here and discuss Astrology or honor Linda. They don't want to see this negativity. And kudos to T for being a free spirit. Maybe she doesn't obey any laws. I don't know. But that won't work here.

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"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

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Posts: 5197
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:14 PM            

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It could Juni.

I will concede that it could also work under leadership. I'm suggesting it doesn't work under the rule of one person unless that person is extremely just.

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Posts: 5197
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:16 PM            

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There's nothing at all false about self-moderation. As I stated before, it's the way of the world. You screw up in your real life who moderates you? Some boogie man, or the people that are around at the time? Got it?

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Posts: 7739
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:17 PM            

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Perhaps, I should say it's disrespectful to the rules. I do not feel disrespected. And most people (almost all) follow the rules or apologize if they happen to break them. Or they leave of their own accord (as T has said she is doing). I don't think I have any power over anyone. They either like it here and contribute or they don't jibe with us and leave. They do it to themselves. The Net is a big place. I'm not offended if Lindaland isn't for everyone.

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"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

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Posts: 5197
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:20 PM            

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You do have the power to ban. That is power over people, which they don't always have over themselves.

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Posts: 7739
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:21 PM            

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Bottom line: No personal insults. Everyone should re-read the sign-up page. Play nice. If you get heated and falter, no worries. One of us will remind you. That's fair. It's actually not easy to get banned here. It took Valus years. But if someone just outright breaks the laws in society, there are repercussions. Being "shunned" by your peers isn't what keeps people in line in society. Utopian society cannot exist in the real world.

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"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

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Posts: 8760
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted April 21, 2011 12:21 PM            

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AG
I think this is about different philosophical points of view toward life.
You believe people CAN self govern cuz people are basically just ,good and decent,I think.

I believe that one must have a leader who is just ,good and decent.
I do NOT believe the people can lead,not in a simple ,direct way.
I think that would bring chaos and disorder.
In the end, everything that people loved,valued and honored would be destroyed.

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Why have a finely manicured lawn and be crying on the inside?

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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Posts: 8760
From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted April 21, 2011 12:23 PM            

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AG
I will send you a copy of Animal Farm by George Orwell.
This is the issue.This classic book is THIS fight and the last one we had on LL.

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Why have a finely manicured lawn and be crying on the inside?

He who controls his Spirit is greater than he who controls a city
Proverbs

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Posts: 2267
From: Gaia
Registered: Apr 2010

posted April 21, 2011 12:23 PM            

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Cookie break...

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Posts: 5197
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:25 PM            

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That's because you haven't lived through it.

I have a strong faith in people, sure, but I don't think everyone's stellar, nor do I even believe the stellar ones are stellar all the time. People screw up, and when they're at that place it's highly unlikely that they're going to back down. You have to carry the grace for people sometimes when they slip.

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Posts: 7739
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:25 PM            

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There's a big difference between pure democracy and a republic. Pure democracy is not very pleasant. As our forefathers thought, so do I. A democratic Republic with minority rights is the best form of government, IMHO. Should this be moved to GU?

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"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

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Posts: 1700
From: Blue Star Kachina
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:29 PM            

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No one has power over the people of Lindaland if they first and formost have power over themselves.

self discipline creates self moderation.

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~The Earth Laughs In Flowers~
... Emerson

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Posts: 5197
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 21, 2011 12:32 PM            

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I disagree with the idea that this is a discussion of democracy. Like I said, in real life the people that keep you in check are those that are around you at the time. There's no government system involved unless it's crimal (and what's criminal isn't people calling each other names; we can't be locking up preschoolers now, can we? ).

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