posted May 26, 2011 02:08 PM            

no, really? well now i see why you are so frustrated. trying to explain what is common knowledge can be VERY trying!

what on earth do you think i have been talking about? that "gift" by britain of land the arabs believed theirs by birthright was the beginning of the problem. decreeing that israel be placed in the middle of the arab world was asking for what we got. a constant site for friction. also a foothold in oil country. go figure!

posted May 26, 2011 02:32 PM            

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posted May 26, 2011 02:36 PM            

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posted May 26, 2011 02:41 PM            

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posted May 26, 2011 06:52 PM            

i have said i prefer learning to see the "enemy" for what he is...another human being who has his own grievances, than settling ONLY for a death sentence.

geesh, are you still trying to call me out?

with all due respect i don't see ANY logic to your stance at all, just pure jewish dogma about how the bible said it was theirs and they are so the chosen people that everyone who betrays them is booted out of heaven pronto and "the arabs this the arabs that"...

as i have mentioned, my father was from a jewish family, raised as a jew, lost family in the holocaust, had a very "jewish" sense of humour...and still had the NERVE to think for himself and see that being jewish had NOTHING to do with where one comes from.

i have said that anti-semitic is a misused term because semites aren't necessarily jewish and jews aren't necessarily semites.

i have said that israel does not equal "the jews" since most jews still live happily elsewhere.

and since i am tired of repeating and rephrasing, if you want to continue calling me names, be my guest!

posted May 26, 2011 07:18 PM            

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posted May 27, 2011 05:26 AM            

Britain's bad karma is the colonial loot and rape of Africa and South Asia. A small part of it was settled thanks to the efforts of William Wilberforce and his team. The remaining: IMMIGRANTS. Britain built its infrastructure from colonial loot, so the millions of immigrants have a share in enjoying this.

France has to pay for their brutal atrocities in Algeria and other French Colonies. France killed hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. Every drop of innocent blood will be accounted. The Neocon excuse of "Collateral Damage" does not exist in the Law of Karma.

<<
Karma surely must be finely tuned, as well as (if at all) collective. It was the (corrupt) elites of those countries who have done all misdeeds, and it is the elites who are also allowing mass immigration into Europe. So where's the karmic justice in that?
>>
Karma is created with thoughts as well as deeds. And intent. Why did the Masses allow the Elites to dominate to such an extent?

Look at Andalusia in Spain. 10000 or more African Immigrants live like animals in the forests. The Spanish Villages know of this but do nothing because they need them to pluck the berries and spray insecticide at rock bottom wages. The villagers are masses. Why can't they
collect money and help rehabilitate these men? ARK: Act of Random Kindness, defeats karmic debts by the ton.

<<
I suppose they get karmic payback too. I see your point IQ about some Americans rallying round a cause they think is 'good' or patriotic, but has a huge human cost - elsewhere, it must have bad karma that.
>>
Here too, their debts exist but are far lesser than the debts of those who enjoy the ill gotten gains. Hell exists in the Lower Astral. The Elite businessmen and arms dealers and Oil drillers who create war for profit will have to consume the gold they chased. Melted. They have to suffer exactly what they made innocent civilian Vietnamese, Iraqis, Arabs, Africans, Indians etc suffer. Only after a good dose are they allowed to reincarnate. And many war victims do reincarnate as Americans/Europeans/Australians as a compensation.

The patriotic masses who were initially misled can send donations to ravaged countries, express regrets and escape much of the punishment. End of the day, they did not fire the bullets.

posted May 27, 2011 07:37 AM            

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posted May 27, 2011 11:42 AM            

i agree with nightingale that jews and arabs had been living peacefully side by side in that area for a long time. it was the ACT of ARTIFICIAL division and giving ownership while ENDORSING SEPARATION that created a problem - a border to fight over.

and the zionist/non-zionist argument is as old as israel if not older. i understand that culturally you identify with judaism, but that does not make jews a race, since they come from ALL races, as do christians. surely as a convert to christianity you of all people should be able to understand that.

posted May 27, 2011 12:26 PM            

For you or anyone to understand how and why the Jew's needed to come back to THAT piece of Land and make it their Homeland, one must accept the Bible.
If not,it makes no sense.
Therein lies our deeper issue.
If you never accept the Bible, there is no place for me to go in this discussion or any other one, really.

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posted May 27, 2011 05:48 PM            

i think the bible is a very valuable book. however i do not consider it the last word on anything. so, feel free not to discuss with me if that is a deal breaker.

i have a very different concept of god from you. just going by what i have seen you say here. i don't hold to the idea that any one people are his favourites, like an earthly parent who favours one of his children over the others...

i hold to my belief that there is room for all of us on this earth. in other words, you are completely entitled to your opinion. i might wish there weren't QUITE so many of us, but it is what it is! i include you, ami, whether you ever "accept" me or my ideas or not. just don't try to kill me for my beliefs, ok? that i will not permit.

as to being jewish and believing in the "jewish" messiah, jews do not recognize jesus as such, do they?

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the mashiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the mashiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do
JUDAISM 101 http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm

posted May 27, 2011 05:55 PM            

quote:

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Israel has a huge karmic bank balance because of the Holocaust but some day it might run out because of the way they treat Palestinian Civilians in Gaza.

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quote:

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Britain's bad karma is the colonial loot and rape of Africa and South Asia

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Again, so Africa and South Asia got their karma in the loot and pillage.

PS. I'm not saying the above is true, just saying what the karmic counter-response is

quote:

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Hell exists in the Lower Astral.

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posted May 27, 2011 07:12 PM            

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posted May 27, 2011 07:17 PM            

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posted May 27, 2011 07:24 PM            

i don't believe that christ would exclude people for not believing the bible; for not believing he was the messiah; for not believing full stop!

"as i do, so shall you, and more" he said. i DO believe that he was a great spiritual leader. i DO believe that there have been others and that they pretty much all point to God being WITHIN, not so much in they themselves...they opened doors for the lost and tried to help them see.

and then the Religion part set in and dogma was born....

posted May 27, 2011 07:49 PM            

quote:

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but i will NOT quarrel with your religion unless you use it to discriminate against me or try to harm me.

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Well unless I can come through the computer and smack you,you don't have much to worry about

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posted May 28, 2011 10:30 AM            

So, it didn't take long after Bibi publically removed all doubt that The One, The Messiah O'Bomber is an empty suit who really doesn't belong in any decision making position for the O'Bomber drooling press to spring into action.

The good news is that almost no one reads or watches their nonsense.

May 28, 2011
CNN's Zakaria: Couldn't He Just Call Netanyahu a **** ?
By William Tate

Just when you thought the Obama-Kool-Aid-swilling media couldn't sink any further into their foul muck, along comes ersatz expert-on-everything and Obama sycophant Fareed Zakaria. Attempting to defend Obama's imperious effort to force Israel back inside its indefensible pre-1967 borders, Zakaria has tried to link Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu with a central figure in one of the most vicious anti-Jewish, anti-Israeli regimes in history.

Zakaria compared Netanyahu to former Soviet Foreign Minister Andrei Gromyko in an opinion piece in the Washington Post this week, claiming petulantly that Netanyahu has become, like Gromyko, "'Doctor Nyet,' a man who will be bypassed in history."

Beyond proving that Zakaria has a tin ear, his column proves beyond all doubt that anyone who criticizes, or even disagrees with, Obama -- even in the interest of protecting their own country -- will be savaged by the media beyond any sense of decency, let alone fairness.

It is an attack that is vile, vituperative, and -- as we shall see -- viciously personal. And all because Netanyahu didn't roll over for Obama on a matter vital to his nation's security. (As an aside, one can't help wonder why Netanyahu didn't just tell Obama, much like Obama infamously told Republicans in 2009: We won. Get over it.)

Zakaria compared the Prime Minister of Israel to a man who played a key role in a regime that implemented anti-Israeli policies abroad and an anti-Jewish agenda at home, a regime that actively and systematically persecuted Jews. And Gromyko was the architect of a foreign policy that forced Israel, the world's lone Jewish state and the Middle East's only democracy, into two bloody wars for its very existence.

Gromyko served as Soviet Foreign Minister for most of the Cold War, including during the Six Day War in 1967, in which Israel won the more-defensible territories which Obama would now have it relinquish. Records released since then show that Gromyko's foreign policy helped instigate that battle for Israel's survival.

According to a June, 2000 report in the UK's Guardian newspaper:

The Soviet Union had played a central role in escalating tension in the Middle East and had falsely accused Israel of massing forces on the Syrian border... In memoirs published recently, Nikita Khrushchev said the USSR's military command persuaded its political leadership to support these steps, knowing they were aimed at starting a war to destroy Israel.

As Foreign Minister, Gromyko was a principal member of that political leadership.

And the records also revealed that, when it appeared Israel was poised to win a total victory over the Soviet's Middle Eastern client states, Gromyko's USSR was, itself, prepared to intervene militarily. By way of the hotline between the two superpowers, Gromyko warned then-US President Lyndon Johnson:

A very crucial moment has now arrived which forces us, if military actions are not stopped in the next few hours, to adopt an independent decision. We are ready to do this. However, these actions may bring us into a clash which will lead to a grave catastrophe ... we purpose [sic] that you demand from Israel that it unconditionally cease military action... we purpose to warn Israel that if this is not fulfilled, necessary actions will be taken, including military...

(Then Defense Secretary Robert) McNamara recalled: "In effect it said: Mr. President, if you want war, you'll get war."

After Kosygin's menacing message was received, the US under-secretary of state, Nicholas Katzenbach, was dispatched from the Situation Room to 'call in the Israeli ambassador and put pressure on the Israelis to accept a ceasefire'. The Israelis, presumably informed of the Soviet threat, did - after completing their conquest of the Golan.

By most accounts, the Soviet regime, in which Gromyko served so prominently, intensified its internal campaign against Jews after the humiliating rout of its Arab allies.

The hard-won 1967 borders proved vital to the Jewish state's survival when Israel was caught off-guard by a multiple-front, coordinated attack by Syria and Egypt: the 1973 Yom Kippur war.

It was a sneak attack of which Gromyko, and the Soviet Union, were aware -- if not actively involved in the planning -- beforehand.

In his book, The Yom Kippur War: The Epic Encounter That Transformed the Middle East, Abraham Rabinovich wrote that the Soviets, and Gromyko, had armed Egypt and Syria with the modern arms necessary to wage war on Israel. Gromyko was even aware of the timing of the surprise assault. Two days before Syria and Egypt attacked, Gromyko summoned his top aides. "What they were about to hear, he said, must be kept completely confidential. Egypt and Syria were to open war on Israel on Saturday at 2 P.M."

Rabinovich noted that Gromyko "was skeptical of the Arabs' chances but acknowledged that a surprise attack might improve their odds."

Overlooking the historical and policy implications of Zakaria's contemptuous comparison, there is the personal aspect as well. Yonatan Netanyahu, "one of Israel's most celebrated heroes," was born in New York City in 1946. He died thirty years later, on the Fourth of July. At the time of his death he was a commander of the elite Israeli commando unit, Sayeret Maktal -- more or less the equivalent of our Navy SEALs. The best of the very best. He was killed during the Entebbe raid, in which the unit he headed rescued 103 hostages held aboard an Air France passenger plane in Uganda.

The Soviet Union, under the foreign policy directed by Gromyko, was the principal supplier of arms to Uganda and its dictator, Idi Amin.

The bullet which killed Yonatan Netanyahu was most likely provided to his killer through the largesse of Andrei Gromyko. The same man to whom Zakaria now compares Yonatan's younger brother, Binyamin.

Perhaps Zakaria just hadn't thought of calling Binyamin Netanyahu, the elected leader of a sovereign nation and a stalwart US ally, a talk show **** .

With Zakaria's column, it becomes clear that Barack Obama's mainstream media will stoop to any low, no matter how vile or disgraceful or personal, to protect their guy.

Just writing about Zakaria's comments leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. And it's not Obama Kool-Aid.

posted May 28, 2011 10:57 AM            

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