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Author Topic:   Occupy Movement: A Necessary Call For Change
katatonic
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posted December 02, 2011 06:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://vimeo.com/2032854

not looking good for the old regime!

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Node
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posted December 02, 2011 09:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Excellent message.

Thanks for posting it.

Let's hope the WE succeed.
http://www.gen-we.com/


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iQ
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posted December 03, 2011 12:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
<<
As someone who works for a news media organization I say to you: DON'T TRUST THE NEWS! If you want accuracy and truth go see for yourself and then we can discuss the situation at the parks.
>>
Very well said.

But I would not want JWHop to go any where near a place with protests. For he is old and he is intelligent enough to know about the Federal Reserve fraud plus he likes Ron Paul. So he might get pepper sprayed by the cops! Cops in a Nazi mindset will not care about the supporter or hater. Everyone gets punished in a Martial Law situation.

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BearsArcher
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posted December 03, 2011 02:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BearsArcher     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The only people afraid of Occupoopers are those that fear communicable diseases. Occupoopers are deathly afraid of bars of soap and hot water.

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BearsArcher
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posted December 03, 2011 02:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BearsArcher     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
before OWS zucotti park was home to the homeless. NO ONE COMPLAINED. during OWS it was also home to the homeless, who smelled food and other goodies and increased their numbers there.

when one is dragged off by the hair, pepper sprayed and beaten to the ground before hitting the paddy wagon floor, it is unlikely that you will wipe up after yourself.

but again more third hand observations. not to worry, the military will soon be on the streets to take care of each and every one of them. a wet dream come true, eh?


You are so full of BS kat. Same to you NativeJ. Think about it, the facts are the facts. The OWS people left so much trash, had so many diseases that even the CDC is doing studies on them.

facts are facts... get over it and stop being so obsessed with a cause that you forget about what is real and what is emotional. You sound like a bunch of clucky hens so defending the one rooster in the bunch that you will let him peck your head off for the attention.

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NativelyJoan
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posted December 03, 2011 02:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BearsArcher:
You are so full of BS kat. Same to you NativeJ. Think about it, the facts are the facts. The OWS people left so much trash, had so many diseases that even the CDC is doing studies on them.

facts are facts... get over it and stop being so obsessed with a cause that you forget about what is real and what is emotional. You sound like a bunch of clucky hens so defending the one rooster in the bunch that you will let him peck your head off for the attention.


Ah! My eyes are hurting from all the hostility. Too tired at the moment too think coherently to respond, however once I've had sleep I will respond by being diplomatically vitriolic.

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NativelyJoan
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posted December 03, 2011 07:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
BearsArcher, if you are not in support of the OWS movement, that's fine, voice your contention however do not blatantly attack those in support of said movement. I disagree with your viewpoints regarding this issue however I welcome your criticism and anyone else's. It allows me and those interested in this discussion to once again reassess the ideologies of the movement and the influence the movement is having on the public.

Clearly the Occupy movement has stirred something inside of you or you wouldn't be voicing your distaste for their demonstrations. Everything is based on individual interpretations, you're entitled to your views and so are we.

Please feel free to share your viewpoints, but don't throw jabs at those in support of the movement. I posted this thread in the hopes of having peaceful discourse.

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NativelyJoan
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posted December 03, 2011 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BearsArcher:
The only people afraid of Occupoopers are those that fear communicable diseases. Occupoopers are deathly afraid of bars of soap and hot water.

This is a false assumption and crude generalization. You don't know these people, you don't know their history, their story. You haven't had a moment to listen to them speak their truth. I should be inflamed with your response however the only irritation I have is with the mainstream media and their distortion of the truth in favor of profit and political alliances. They've allowed people to have a distorted view of this movement and have once again failed to properly inform the public about news worthy events that are affecting our world.

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NativelyJoan
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posted December 03, 2011 07:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Occupiers are fighting for change. They're just bringing to the surface issues that have been left dormant. You can keep people in a state of repression for so long until the lid explodes right off the boiling kettle. They are living in a society with systems that no longer allow them to sustain their livelihoods, nor were the systems ever meant to. Times are changing, the masses are growing wise and weary. It's out with the old...

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katatonic
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posted December 03, 2011 07:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
archer, are we going back to the barnyard? i am not the biggest OWS supporter though i find it interesting and relevant - but i support their right to their point of view. SOME of their ideas match mine. some do not, surprise surprise! that is not the point in the america i grew up in. the point is they are entitled to talk about their ideas.

not ONE of them has brought a gun or disrupted congress like some other protesters recently did...

from people who actually participated in new york, i have learned that the "no shower" schtick is just more limbaughese - most of those people live in ny and they take breaks to shower, and if not local, use a friend's facilities.

but even if they did not shower for a year, does that make it okay for them to be assaulted, entrapped, maced, etc by new york's "finest"?

one of the topics that has come up out of this is the delicate balance between free speech and OTHER'S rights. something that also came up when gabrielle giffords was shot...and your side of the fence thought it was RUBBISH to suggest that violent language was in any way shape or form encouraging to nutbags like the shooter. remember?

is it okay for bloomberg to be bragging that his police are one of "the biggest military forces in the world"?

if this new bill goes through you won't have to worry a) about work for bear and b) catching anything nasty in the park. they will all be shipped out pronto. so that's all right, innit? jobs problem solved, for returning military and protesters alike in one fell swoop.

unless you who crow about the constitution all the time mind living without one that is.

i realize the very idea (planted by hannity, limbaugh et al) that they might have some ideas about the collective good scares the pants off you, but so far all they're asking for is holding criminals responsible.

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Randall
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posted December 03, 2011 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If they don't follow procedure and get permits, then they are lawbreakers. That means they are there illegally. That means when the owner(s) of said properties ask them to leave, and they refuse, they can expect police action. Even the most reprehensible of gatherers get permits, and as such, their unpopular speech is protected.

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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NativelyJoan
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posted December 03, 2011 09:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
If they don't follow procedure and get permits, then they are lawbreakers. That means they are there illegally. That means when the owner(s) of said properties ask them to leave, and they refuse, they can expect police action. Even the most reprehensible of gatherers get permits, and as such, their unpopular speech is protected.


But the movement isn't about the parks. Yes there were protesters who decided to set camp in parks around the nation, and yes they were violating laws prohibiting squatting however it was never about the parks. That was just one form of demonstration to get the attention of the public.

The most important components of the movement are the peaceful public demonstrations such as the marches and the ideologies. The messages brought forth through the movement for change will continue long after the dust has settled on the parks.

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Randall
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posted December 03, 2011 10:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You missed my point. They can't break the law and then refuse to leave and then complain when police action is required to remove them. Not following proper procedure and not having respect for the laws we currently have in place only serves to drive a wedge between them and the average American (the very 99 percent they claim to represent).

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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NativelyJoan
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posted December 03, 2011 11:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I did see your point, however the demonstrations in the parks were only one of many components within the movement. After setting up camp in the parks many protesters stayed there because they weren't being forced to leave. The concept of staying in the parks was representative of a sit in, to "occupy" the space. They were successful at occupying the parks peacefully for a full two months before Mayor's around the country had them evicted. For two months Bloomberg and many other city officials allowed them to occupy the parks peacefully and illegally without resistance. If that doesn't speak volumes about the impact of the movement then I don't know what else does.

The parks aren't important though, the messages are. Sometimes you have to challenge or even break unjustified laws in order to bring about justified change. By challenging the laws they aren't driving a "wedge" between themselves and common Americans. They are forging an avenue for dissatisfaction with the system. In a sense their the brave ones who refuse to allow a failing system to continue to destroy their lives and the lives of future generations to come. They aren't allowing themselves to be beguiled by the lies of politicians and our social, political, and economical systems that do not support the welfare of humanity and the planet.

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NativelyJoan
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posted December 03, 2011 11:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess we will agree to disagree because I don't think it's possible to reach a mutual assessment of this movement considering we have such differentiating viewpoints. I do appreciate your criticisms and others that have posted in regards to the Occupy movement and welcome many more.

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jwhop
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posted December 04, 2011 09:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a hot flash for all the leftists in the Occupier ranks...as well as all those in the groups who organized the Occupiers and sent them forth; groups like Move-On, SEIU..Service Employers International Union, Adbusters Media Foundation...a foreign Socialist group and all the rest of the howling Socialists, Communists, Progressives and Anarchist America haters connected to George Soros.

Your attempt to take the spotlight off your little Marxist icon O'Bomber, the biggest failure in American Presidential history and distract America during a Presidential election cycle is a gigantic failure.

American public opinion is not on your side and disapproval of your tactics and objectives are growing stronger each day.

The reason left wing Mayors across America have moved to give Occupiers the boot..after encouraging you in the beginning...is because Americans have made the connection between Occupiers and leftist demoscats...including Mayors.

Instead of distracting America from the policies of O'Bomber and his Socialist comrades in Congress, policies which make Americans want to throw up, you have become toxic to the reelection chances of O'Bomber and his Socialist comrades in Congress.

You are being jettisoned and thrown under the Socialist bus for reasons of political expediency.

Still, I encourage Occupiers to go into the streets and raise hell...just as O'Bomber suggested his Kool-Aid drinkers "go out and get in people's faces" and Van Jones...the Revolutionary Communist from O'Bomber's administration urges.

So, in the spring and into summer, before the election, be sure to raise hell in the streets of America and let the rest of America get a good look at you.

Demonstrations, protests and hell raising in the streets of America by Communists, Socialists, Progressives and Anarchists helped elect Richard M Nixon in 1968 and helped reelect George W Bush in 2004.

So, don't be shy. Rampaging, howling, lawless leftist mobs revolt American voters.

Hey BearsArcher, I'm stocking up on popcorn. I think we're going to be treated to a good show!

How about you and Bear?

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Node
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From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
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posted December 04, 2011 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You know JW you post plenty of dodo.

Most posts can be picked apart -line by line -[which many GU denizens have had the patience to do.]

There are few things that get my blood boiling more, and with more speed, than the morally bankrupt people who continue to support our 43rd President.

One of the ways you -JW- do this is by {ad nauseum] repeating the lie that Obama is the worst president ever. Or in the last 100 years.

I am not a Democrat. But repeating lies over and over till they are part of our discourse is something repubs are very good at...getting the message across that is. In fact staying on message is one of the party's most lucrative characteristics. If Luntz [and yourself] as well as other spin doctors like K Rove have taught us anything is that if you say something often enough you can make it true, to millions of dupes.

Now I have taken you to task a few times before on this because it makes me throw up in my mouth a little. Stubborn little bull that I am, here [predictably] I am posting in the O-Mans defense/

That is not my agenda. My agenda is to point out again, [that] the preceding president George Walker was very close to pulling the zipper up on the U.S. body bag.

To lighten my mood I'll post a humorous reality check for those who remember fondly the #43 years. http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/blbushresume.htm

highlights:


George W. Bush's Resume

George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave., NW
Washington, D.C. 20500

Past Work Experience
•Ran for congress and lost.
•Produced a Hollywood slasher B movie.
•Bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas; company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.
•Bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. Biggest move: Traded Sammy Sosa to the Chicago White Sox.
•With father's help (and his name) was elected Governor of Texas.

Accomplishments in Previous Positions

Changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union.


Replaced Los Angeles with Houston as the most smog-ridden city in America. Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money.


Set record for most executions by any governor in American history.


Became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with the help of my father's appointments to the Supreme Court.


Accomplishments As President
•Attacked and took over two countries.
•Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
•Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
•Set
economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. •Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
•First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
•First president in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
•First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in U.S. history.
•After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.
•Set the record for most campaign fundraising trips than any other president in U.S. history.
•In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
•Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in U.S. history.
•Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
•Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history.
•Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
•Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in U.S. history.
•Presided over the biggest energy crises in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
•Presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
•Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
•Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
•Dissolved more international treaties than any president in U.S. history.
•My presidency is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in U.S. history.
•Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history (the 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleezza Rice, has an Exxon oil tanker named after her).
•First president in U.S. history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.
•Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
•First president in U.S. history to order a U.S. attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.
•Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
•Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in U.S. history.
•First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the human rights commission.
•First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the elections monitoring board.
•Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in U.S. history.
•Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
•Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
•Refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
•First president in U.S. history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. elections).
•All-time U.S. (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
•My biggest lifetime campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
•Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in U.S. history.
•First president in U.S. history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
•First president to run and hide when the U.S. came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
•First U.S. president to establish a secret shadow government.
•Took the biggest world sympathy for the U.S. after 9/11, and in less than a year made the U.S. the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in U.S. and world history).
•With a policy of 'disengagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
•Fist U.S. president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
•First U.S. president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the U.S. than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
•Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
•Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated U.S. law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
•Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive.'
•Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capital building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
•In the 18 months following the 9/11 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
•Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in U.S. history.
•In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the U.S. has ever been since the Civil War.
•Entered office with the strongest economy in U.S. history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

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Node
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posted December 04, 2011 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My apologies to Joan for not staying on topic.

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jwhop
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posted December 04, 2011 12:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey Node, stick a fork in O'Bomber. He's done.

Far left radicals which comprise the Occupier movement are also done.

But, don't be discouraged by me. Keep spreading the horseshiiiit. It's the staple diet of the O'Bomber Mushrooms.

It was Randall who first pointed out that the OWS crowd were a distraction.

For my money, OWS is a deliberate distraction ginned up to focus attention off their little Marxist icon; THE ONE, THE LEFTIST MESSIAH, O'Bomber. Hands down the worst President in US history.

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NativelyJoan
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posted December 04, 2011 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No problem Node.

Jwhop, the Occupy movement has nothing to do with political party's. It's compromised of all kinds of people, with varying political views but what unites them is their disgust with the current direction of the political and economical systems in this country and around the globe. Mind you this movement is not limited to the United States, it's a global movement, with protests all over Europe, Asia, South America etc. It's not about American politics, it's about challenging inefficient and ineffective societal systems.

And it's not a leftist movement, it's a global movement. Please get your facts straight. I could spew assumptions about Republicans, Conservatives, Liberals, Democrats, Moderates etc however I don't because I choose not to engage in trivial political banter when there are bigger things happening in the world. The Occupy movement does not identify itself with any specific political party or political ideology.

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Node
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From: 1,981 mi East of Truth or Consequences NM
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posted December 04, 2011 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Node     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
it's a global movement

Hopefully more and more people will come to realize the truth in that.

When I ask others what they have gleaned, they are now aware, yes, and here is the but~ they are unaware of the intent. All they know is the 6:00 news

More than a little depressing.

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NativelyJoan
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From: New England
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posted December 04, 2011 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NativelyJoan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is unfortunate Node and I agree hopefully more people will see the truth. But you know what, large scale change takes time and so do peaceful movements. All we can do is give it time.

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iQ
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posted December 05, 2011 03:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for iQ     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Things will get out of control in Spring 2012.

The Cardinal Crimes were like this: Bailing out the Banks and greedy Bank bosses than bailing out the 99% who had to suffer foreclosures. Obama is also very much responsible.

OWS has to fight such crimes politically by forming a party and fighting all levels of elections or at least play spoilsport in ensuring that all the candidates with Wall Street links fail.

If the German "Pirate Party" could win seats without any kind of mass mobilization, the OWS groups can become historical game changers.


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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted December 05, 2011 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"highlights:

George W. Bush's Resume

George W. Bush
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Ave., NW
Washington, D.C. 20500"

Node, you seem to have a bad case of diarrhea. A gallon or so of Kaopectate should clear that up for you!

I know leftists...including those in the drooling press are attempting to portray the great unwashed OWS crowd as "idealists" just trying to make things "better".

Save that shtick for the tourists. Homeboys aren't buying a word of that trash.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted December 05, 2011 01:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Who the "Occupiers" really are!

Occupy San Diego Holds Communism Seminar
The continuing appeal of history’s worst idea
by John Hayward
12/05/2011

The San Diego chapter of the “Occupy Wall Street” movement has always been one of its more… colorful outposts. They’re the ones who held a moment of silence in solidarity with the guy who shot at the White House, after all. In the twilight of the Occupy saga, when only the hardcore crazies are left, places like San Diego are giving us a closer look at the “core beliefs” of the movement.

To that end, Occupy San Diego held a little seminar on the virtues of communism on Sunday. The fun begins about six minutes into the clip.

There are a few things to be learned here, besides the astonishing historical ignorance and poor critical thinking skills of the Occupiers. (Remember, a lot of these people are students.) The enduring romantic appeal of a heavily sanitized communism should not be underestimated. Communism and fascism were history’s worst ideas, but they experienced very different fates in the postwar era. Communism evaded the deep grave in which fascism was rightly buried in Western society, and is still credited with marvelous good intentions, not least because it promises to free gullible young people from material concerns… by robbing them blind.

Thus, when the introductory speaker in San Diego repeats the hoary old promises that communism “seeks to eliminate the conditions in which the majority of workers live only to increase capital to fulfill the interests of the ruling class,” and “under communism, society’s wealth would be used in the interests of the workers,” she’s making it sound like advanced Obamanomics.

Those ideas have not been discredited in the public mind, after causing a century of poverty and bloodshed, because Western academics will not allow them to be discredited. Instead of reviewing the grisly wreckage of communist dungeon states and examining why those glittering visions of “everyone sharing everything” lead directly to gulags and enforced starvation, they ask their students to forget about all the unpleasant “mistakes” of totalitarian rulers who didn’t really understand the true communist genius, and restore full faith and credit in the good intentions of an invariably brutal and squalid system.

Later, the featured speaker muses that under socialism and Marxism, “everybody has a say, and all working-class people run society.” Nothing could be further from the truth, and this delusion lies at the core of everything from the 80-proof Marxism sold at university lectures, to the white-lightning bathtub brew guzzled by the Occupiers… and the watered-down and focus-grouped socialism Barack Obama sells on a daily basis. These people are simply ignoring the staggering amount of compulsive force necessary to make collectivist systems function. The more “re-distributive” society becomes, the more force it must deploy against its people, and the less of a “say” they have in what occurs.

No amount of political activism, during the increasingly rare and ineffectual trips to the ballot box afforded under collectivist systems, can possibly replace the “say” working-class people exercise through the full ownership of their private property, and the accompanying economic liberty this provides. What a dismal cultural and educational failure it is, to see so many young people who not only fail to understand this, but believe their ignorance makes them morally superior. The Occupy Wall Street tragedy lies in its loss of appreciation for economic liberty, and the failure to appreciate that all other liberties ultimately spring from it, because if you own nothing, you can refuse nothing.

Of course, since their defining act is the forcible appropriation of property they don’t own, and the refusal to contribute to its maintenance and repair, that’s not really a surprise. The approval of compulsion for “righteous” ends is written into this movement’s DNA.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=47941

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