posted January 24, 2012 01:07 AM            

or maybe you misunderstood my post that you had responded to?

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I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

posted January 24, 2012 01:13 AM            

When I told people that I didn't want children - that I didn't particularly like kids, I was consistently met with confusion and disdain.

re: other posts and responses: Eh, I could be misreading any number of things. I've been up since 4:30am EST and it's...1:12am EST the next day o_O

posted January 24, 2012 01:13 AM            

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I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

posted January 24, 2012 01:14 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mockingbird:
I mean, don't get me wrong - I understand the frustration.

When I told people that I didn't want children - that I didn't particularly like kids, I was consistently met with confusion and disdain.

re: other posts and responses: Eh, I could be misreading any number of things. I've been up since 4:30am EST and it's...1:12am EST the next day o_O

I'll have to revisit after a couple hours of sleep.

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i feel ya....lately i havent been sleeping through the night...i wind up waking up in the middle of the night...and its the same time for me too

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I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

posted January 24, 2012 01:30 AM            

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posted January 24, 2012 04:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by littlecloud:
They all look like fat blobs to me.

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posted January 24, 2012 05:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SunChild:
I commend those who can recognize that they don't want children, my friend does not want kids, she just does not have the desire. It is also good that one can make that decision because there are a lot out there who failed to recognize that who brought a child into the world and it did not work out so good. PPD being under that umbrella or post partum psychosis. Then there are those who you can tell are born to be mothers! It's very wise and honest to learn about yourself to know whether you want to breed or not. Ive seen vile reactions in both
male and female when a baby cries/ toddler tantrum, wheras for myself, no matter how loud and intense the cry or tantrum is, it does not phase me. I'll read the article now. I just want to say I totally get it!

I being a mum and I my anti baby stuff friends

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Parents like you are AWESOME.

I like parents who respect those of us who are childfree.

I am VERY strongly childfree--shy of being militant about it, but am definitely sure.

I can't stand it when people question me about it/interrogate me over it and when they make the ignorant comment "you'll change your mind".

Um, yeah...

I really respect parents who raise their kids well and who also are not condescending or judgmental about MY choice. I also really love parents who have interests outside of their kids and who still retain their self-identity/don't lose themselves in a role. And I also like parents who will stand up for the right of childfree people to not have kids and to be respected for that.

The types that I can't stand are the ones who do a poor job of raising their kids (e.g., let them run amok with no discipline), who are condescending about their choices, and who make ignorant and stupid comments to me.

I don't just hate people simply for having children--just the ones who are obnoxious about it.

Me, to be honest, I'm really not a kid-person, but I do try not to be disrespectful towards those with kids. I will refuse (politely) to baby-sit (I simply say that I don't baby-sit), and if I'm having people over, I make it clear that the invitation is for adults-only and I don't have the house child-proofed (again, though, politely). However, I won't say rude or nasty things to them or judge them, or look down on them.

So yeah, thank you SunChild and all of the other cool parents out there who respect us childfree people.

posted January 24, 2012 10:29 AM            

This is a very personal issue to people, and it has many facets to the decision, none of which should be looked down upon or insulted.

As with any personal choice in ones life, it is the hope that it will be respected, if not agreed with, by the rest of the population. I'm confident that the minority are the ones with the severe reactions (and I feel this about pretty much anything you could discuss) and the majority of people are content to "live and let live".

Spoken like a true triple Aqua, no?

posted January 24, 2012 10:54 AM            

It seems she has been treated rudely by the people she wrote about, so maybe this was one way for her to vent. It's also her job, so she would want to write articles that will attract alot of attention, I suppose.

So, no, I don't think she was looking to be respected so much, but rather, it seems to be coming more from her own experiences of being disrespected.

In that light, I don't find it highly offensive, but see it as someone venting about something she feels passionate about (and possibly offering up some humor to the part of the audience reading who can relate to her).

quote:

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This is a very personal issue to people, and it has many facets to the decision, none of which should be looked down upon or insulted.

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Exactly!

& "live and let live" indeed!

I think that is something she too was getting at, or was part of her purpose in writing this! Wanting people to respect her right to live the way she wants and not look down or disrespect that by the comments she gets.

posted January 24, 2012 11:11 AM            

I've yet to come across that in my lifetime and have only gotten those kinds of typical comments from friends, family, coworkers.

posted January 24, 2012 12:26 PM            

**Edited to add - I would never have gotten an abortion, even if I were dead set against motherhood, that is one thing that my soul couldn't have lived with. Personal choice there. I do believe that everything happens for a reason, and I wasn't meant to abort my child, but do not and would not disagree with anyone who would have chosen to do so.

This issue has two sides, and honestly, there are just as many negative comments towards HAVING children as there are about choosing not to these days. I would say there is a 50/50 split of the women I went to school with and their parenthood status. We are all in our 30's, either with children, married or unmarried, co-parenting or going it alone, or married without children, single without children. You will get comments either way. Sadly, humans can be catty and defensive, and lash out at others for all kinds of reasons. This is one of them. Anything that makes us different should be celebrated, NOT made fodder in my eyes.

Do I think she has a right to express her feelings? Of course. Do I think she is speaking from personal experience and therefore may have a bit of a chip on her shoulder? Yes I do.

I'm not disagreeing with her view, simply the way in which she chose to belittle the opposing side, which to me, overrode all the positive points she was trying to share.

posted January 24, 2012 12:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by littlecloud:
HAHAHAHA LEXX!!!!

I used to not want to be a mother for a long time. I still don't particularly like kids. Well, at least I don't go crazy over them. My ex would constantly tell me I wasn't a 'real woman' because I would gush over dogs instead of babies. Now I want kids. This doesn't mean I'm in a rush to have any or will have them with just anyone, maybe I've become super conservative but I don't want to raise a child alone, meaning that I want my child to have a loving doting father. I want a family of my own. That being said I still don't gush over babies. They all look like fat blobs to me. Biologically speaking, newborns (animals too) are fascinating in the speed of their growth.

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posted January 24, 2012 01:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Great Topic T! I actually made a thread about people who've chosen to voluntarily sterilize themselves in the Aquarius Rising forum and how they did it in relation to trying to save the environment which is kind of interesting and also because they didn't want kids. That article in the The Guardian is incredibly insightful and interesting.

I've always been interested in the topic of sterilization, voluntary of course. For me it's not so important what people choose to do, but that they have choices. Have kids, don't have kids as long as we continue to live in our society where the decisions to be made in relation to this topic rest on each individual's shoulders. Not the government, president or anyone else given political power...

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posted January 24, 2012 01:32 PM            

I know a girl who has gotten about 3 abortions. I have another friend who had 1 abortion. The girl that had one 'learned her lesson' so to speak, in that she was more careful and a wee bit less trusting of her bf afterwards. Actually both girls were in mentally/emotionally abusive relationships at the time. However I think after having one abortion the message should sink in a little bit. It angers me when girls like that act like it's no big deal. Call it a fetus or whatever you like, the point is that you are creating life. The way the cells multiply so rapidly is amazing in itself. Think of it like getting a cut on your finger and then having it heal pretty much as soon as you cut it. I find it utterly fascinating.

posted January 24, 2012 02:29 PM            

quote:

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But I would not have rudely expressed my opposing opinion on the subject no matter how many people told me I was "not normal". (there were some for sure) But that's just me.

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I agree with you there and I, also have not and do not, express my opinion rudely to people either.

I have an idea of why this might have happened, in her case...in this instance ( i will comment on that after ).

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I was not looking for a reaction, just mutual understanding

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Same here.

quote:

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**Edited to add - I would never have gotten an abortion, even if I were dead set against motherhood, that is one thing that my soul couldn't have lived with. Personal choice there.

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I've known a few women who've had abortions (in high school) and it was very painful for them in many ways. A couple of girls apparently had a few of them (they werent my friends), but I do know that they all went through a lot of pain about it and for most of them, it probably continues to this day.

I feel sorry for women who have had to make that choice and go through the pain that comes along with it.

Personally, I don't have strong opinion about it and respect the individual's choice. I don't think it should be used in place of birth control though. That's one thing I know for sure. Learn your lesson and don't think you can just abort if it happens again. Take sensible precautions if you don't want a child but want to have sex.

quote:

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You will get comments either way. Sadly, humans can be catty and defensive, and lash out at others for all kinds of reasons. **

Anything that makes us different should be celebrated, NOT made fodder in my eyes.

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YES! so agree with you there!

I think that's what Polly dealt with though - unexpectedly - just because of her own personal choice

which in turn made her lash out so.

I'll quote the part i'm refering to, which makes me understand her "tone" more (i think).....after i'm done multi-tasking here.

posted January 24, 2012 03:36 PM            

quote:

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In February, I wrote a column for Observer Woman about not wanting children. I am 37, nearly a year to the day older than Diaz and I just don't. I never have.

Unlike Diaz, I did not know that voluntary childlessness is an unacceptable crime to cop to. I thought I was merely expressing an opinion. I thought that people who want - or have - children, would accept that I do not, just as I accept their choice. After all, it's my (notional) babies I am rejecting, not theirs.

I was wrong.

I stated my case. I listed my reasons, even though it annoys me that the child-free have to justify their status. No one ever asks a parent why they have kids. But I explained that I like my life as it is, my lifestyle, my career. I explained that I had felt this way for 30 years - and that even though all the things that were supposed to change my mind (love, a long-term relationship, pressure from breeding contemporaries) had happened to me, I remain resolutely childless.

I explained that I like the potential of my childless existence: to travel, sleep, read, drink, watch HBO box sets, have feckless fun.

I talked about how difficult it is to be child-free, when popular culture fetishises parenthood in general and motherhood in particular. When the dramatic arc of all TV dramas, of all rom-coms, is dependent on someone becoming pregnant and finding true happiness as a consequence. Babies are the newest archetype on the happy ending, therefore not wanting them is tantamount to not wanting to be happy.

I talked about how weird it is to be disconnected from this baby-crazy culture. Like being sober while everyone else is drunk. I talked about how strange it is to not even care whether or not I'm infertile, when apparently it's all anyone else thinks about.

Was I antagonistic? Possibly. I tried not to be, but I am passionate about this. I was certainly a bit sensational, a bit flippant. The headline referred to the rise of the "dummy mummy" generation - an inflammatory turn of phrase.

The reaction to the piece was terrifying. Emails and letters arrived, condemning me, expressing disgust. I was denounced as bitter, selfish, un-sisterly, unnatural, evil. I'm now routinely referred to as "baby-hating journalist Polly Vernon".

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Enough said.

And as for you former childfree's here who also didnt want or plan on, children but now have them, who have very kindly admitted to us that you understand all of this, because you have been on both sides......thank you, sincerely.

Anyway, i understand Polly's stance and attitude in her writings here. Even though she came off as snarky or harsh - GOOD for her! She has reason to! It got her point across, didnt it? Politeness doesnt always get the point across as well.

I'd be willing to bet she lost some friends over it too.

And I think she had reason to be p!ssed and write some brilliant pieces (IMO) on the subject - knowing she's putting herself in front of a firing squad. She simply wrote from her own viewpoint, one that many people happen to share and at first didnt realize her opinion would get her into a whirlwind of sh!t. It's about time. I give her credit and understand why she's more annoyed than before now.

She put herself out there and spoke her mind - maybe not in a way that would please the majority of people, but I have to give her credit for that. I'm sure the repercussions werent fun.

But why should people who choose to live this way dance around the subject and be quiet about it with others who do not? Not really fair. One choice is not better than the other even though society for too long has made it seem that way.

I don't think her origianl intention was to anger people, as she said, she was taken aback for the resopnse she got for voicing what she though was just another opinion.

Anyway, I understand this type of thing. I relate to her and am glad she didnt "back down" and shut up and instead elaborated on her opinion, knowing full well it would p!ss people off anyway.

I've a feeling that wasnt her point and still isnt though.

posted January 24, 2012 03:42 PM            

quote:

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Anything that makes us different should be celebrated, NOT made fodder in my eyes.

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Yep.

Usually it's choosing to not have children that is considered "different" rather than having them.

And that's what this thread's about.

posted January 24, 2012 03:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
Great Topic T! I actually made a thread about people who've chosen to voluntarily sterilize themselves in the Aquarius Rising forum and how they did it in relation to trying to save the environment which is kind of interesting and also because they didn't want kids. That article in the The Guardian is incredibly insightful and interesting.

I've always been interested in the topic of sterilization, voluntary of course. For me it's not so important what people choose to do, but that they have choices. Have kids, don't have kids as long as we continue to live in our society where the decisions to be made in relation to this topic rest on each individual's shoulders. Not the government, president or anyone else given political power...

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Hey thanks, I will check that out! btw i love what you post and write here.

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For me it's not so important what people choose to do, but that they have choices.

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posted January 24, 2012 04:00 PM            

quote:

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PS.
Off topic but funny placement of the mom's face and the ad on this cover of Parents Magazine.

[/B]

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