posted January 24, 2012 04:11 PM            

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Women might think I'm in denial, but they let me get on with it now. Men, meanwhile, are astounded. Flummoxed. They become aggressive, sneering. They psychoanalyse me, they try to work out what's wrong with me. Who knows why? Perhaps they feel rejected. Perhaps the idea that there are women at large who are not actively pursuing their sperm is an out-and-out affront to a certain kind of man. The same men who have spent years believing that all women secretly want to trap them into commitment and fatherhood, probably.

For whatever reason, I've been pulled up on my wanton childless status, loudly and at length, by three different men, in three different pubs, over the course of the last fortnight alone.

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posted January 24, 2012 04:17 PM            

The reality is that we are all so wrapped up in our own worlds, that it is hard for us to take the time to see another way. Any side of the spectrum is guilty of this. It's unfortunate that there is not more understanding from the get go where people's personal beliefs are concerned. This woman was just living her life how she wanted to live it, her inalienable right, and most likely caught flack for her choices being different than those around her. This in turn made her a bit sarcastic and bitter at the "other side" of her child free issue, hence her article coming across as "snarky". I'm sure there are articles from women on the other side of this issue that are just as condescending towards their "other side", and this just perpetuates the misunderstanding and disrespect of ones choices. It's politics in a way, cloud the crux of the issue with hostility and separation and there will never be a peaceful and respectful understanding.

How I wish the world were not this way! All of us so full of passion and conviction, but unable to let go of pre-conceived notions enough to get along and NOT alienate those that are not sharing our personal opinions.

Judgment is a harsh thing. Jokes and harmless sarcasm are one thing on certain issues, but people like to feel accepted and respected, and when that doesn't happen, instead of giving the other cheek, they turn it back on their judges.

Sorry if this is off topic, I just see it in so many ways every day and it's hard to bear at times. I hate hurting people's feelings, and I hate seeing people's feelings be hurt. I find it senseless. I feel for this woman and that she was made to feel "wrong" or even guilty of some imagined crime against society. And I see it happen to people that do choose to have kids. It happens to me. That eyeroll from single women when your child is yelping in a store or comments on social networks about being "sheep" for having a family nowadays.

It happens to everyone. It sucks, it's shameful that we have a society that must pick apart and attmept to destroy individuality out of God knows what reason.

posted January 24, 2012 04:30 PM            

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
It's funny how different we all see things, isn't it? I see the world of the "ugh, here comes another drone of the system "Mummy" in the grocery line. Yuck." And the "it's a pity Jane hasn't had any children yet. She really would sort her life out if she had a baby", and haven't really noticed one side or the other being more "right" than the other. Because there is no right. In soooo many aspects of life on this planet, this argument can be made. Opinion. Personal choice. Personal beliefs.

The reality is that we are all so wrapped up in our own worlds, that it is hard for us to take the time to see another way. Any side of the spectrum is guilty of this. It's unfortunate that there is not more understanding from the get go where people's personal beliefs are concerned. This woman was just living her life how she wanted to live it, her inalienable right, and most likely caught flack for her choices being different than those around her. This in turn made her a bit sarcastic and bitter at the "other side" of her child free issue, hence her article coming across as "snarky". I'm sure there are articles from women on the other side of this issue that are just as condescending towards their "other side", and this just perpetuates the misunderstanding and disrespect of ones choices. It's politics in a way, cloud the crux of the issue with hostility and separation and there will never be a peaceful and respectful understanding.

How I wish the world were not this way! All of us so full of passion and conviction, but unable to let go of pre-conceived notions enough to get along and NOT alienate those that are not sharing our personal opinions.

Judgment is a harsh thing. Jokes and harmless sarcasm are one thing on certain issues, but people like to feel accepted and respected, and when that doesn't happen, instead of giving the other cheek, they turn it back on their judges.

Sorry if this is off topic, I just see it in so many ways every day and it's hard to bear at times. I hate hurting people's feelings, and I hate seeing people's feelings be hurt. I find it senseless. I feel for this woman and that she was made to feel "wrong" or even guilty of some imagined crime against society. And I see it happen to people that do choose to have kids. It happens to me. That eyeroll from single women when your child is yelping in a store or comments on social networks about being "sheep" for having a family nowadays.

It happens to everyone. It sucks, it's shameful that we have a society that must pick apart and attmept to destroy individuality out of God knows what reason.

Sorry again. RAnt over.

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*clapping, smiling, nodding*

That's real heart and truth right there. Thanks for sharing that, ghani. Beautiful & well said as always.

posted January 24, 2012 04:59 PM            

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Originally posted by T:
Hey thanks, I will check that out! btw i love what you post and write here.

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posted January 24, 2012 05:17 PM            

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
It's refreshing coming to Sweet Peas, I spend too much time on GU I begin to feel my heart turn cold due to what seems to be a very hostile environment.

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I've stayed off of GU for a long time because it seems there's more propaganda than news and it's more logical fallacies and leaps of logic spiced heavily with name calling and hostility than actual respectable debate. And to put it metaphorically (if a bit gross), my Libra scales do not want to balance the feces mad monkeys throw at each other.

I only started looking again recently because a thread I posted on got moved there (though I've clicked on it by mistake a couple of times, usually when I should be in bed instead of playing on the computer). And I saw you'd posted and I was curious and ended up responding because you seemed to be after actual knowledge rather than hammering a political party.

posted January 24, 2012 05:23 PM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I remember reading an interview in Angry Women how one shared that she was told in high school (1970s, IIRC) that she couldn't be on the track team like she wanted because it would damage her ability to conceive children. And the response was for her to tell all her friends and they all snuck onto the track field after school and started running laps as much as possible.

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posted January 24, 2012 05:36 PM            

I personally would abort if raped or if I used birth control correctly but it still failed (which CAN happen even with perfect usage and sterilization, which is frankly something that terrifies the hell out of me and scares me to death).

I very strongly disagree with the idea that if this happens it's "meant" to be. Nope. You always have free will, and in most Western countries at least you have a choice--not all, but a decent number.

I do not feel that any woman should ever be judged for having an abortion, and that we should treat women facing that choice with the utmost compassion and dignity.

I also feel that the mother's rights and her quality/condition of life (physical, psychological, emotional, and in every other way) always and without exception trump those of a fetus. The woman is an actual live human being; a fetus is a potential one. Her rights and concerns come first.

posted January 24, 2012 06:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I've stayed off of GU for a long time because it seems there's more propaganda than news and it's more logical fallacies and leaps of logic spiced heavily with name calling and hostility than actual respectable debate. And to put it metaphorically (if a bit gross), my Libra scales do not want to balance the feces mad monkeys throw at each other.

I only started looking again recently because a thread I posted on got moved there (though I've clicked on it by mistake a couple of times, usually when I should be in bed instead of playing on the computer). And I saw you'd posted and I was curious and ended up responding because you seemed to be after actual knowledge rather than hammering a political party.

I'll probably go back to staying away from GU sooner rather than later.

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indubitably from one Libra to another. I have Mars in Aries which means I'm a gluten for punishment and I don't like to walk away from any injustices so I stay and attempt to debate with some form of civility. But yeah it just becomes to much. It's a place you visit, but purposely neglect to establish a permanent home which is unfortunate because there are some fascinating topics that could be discussed there.

posted January 24, 2012 06:38 PM            

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
I also feel that the mother's rights and her quality/condition of life (physical, psychological, emotional, and in every other way) always and without exception trump those of a fetus. The woman is an actual live human being; a fetus is a potential one. Her rights and concerns come first.

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Agree and I also want to quote M.D. House:

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The nice thing about the abortion debate is that we can quibble over trimesters but ultimately, there's a nice clean line: birth. Morally there isn't a lot of difference. Practically, huge.

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posted January 24, 2012 07:05 PM            

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
I think it should be noted that although I do have a child, I NEVER wanted one. I was actually never supposed to be able to have one, and I shared the same view she has, literally until I had my daughter. But I would not have rudely expressed my opposing opinion on the subject no matter how many people told me I was "not normal". (there were some for sure) But that's just me. I was not looking for a reaction, just mutual understanding. I guess I was lucky that I had it, and equally lucky when I did have a child, that nobody threw it in my face that I had once been adamant about not having one.
[...]
This issue has two sides, and honestly, there are just as many negative comments towards HAVING children as there are about choosing not to these days. I would say there is a 50/50 split of the women I went to school with and their parenthood status. We are all in our 30's, either with children, married or unmarried, co-parenting or going it alone, or married without children, single without children. You will get comments either way. Sadly, humans can be catty and defensive, and lash out at others for all kinds of reasons. This is one of them. Anything that makes us different should be celebrated, NOT made fodder in my eyes.

Do I think she has a right to express her feelings? Of course. Do I think she is speaking from personal experience and therefore may have a bit of a chip on her shoulder? Yes I do.

I'm not disagreeing with her view, simply the way in which she chose to belittle the opposing side, which to me, overrode all the positive points she was trying to share.

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Exactly.
You expresses much more eloquently everything my exhaustion-addled brain didn't get across.

Re: babies looking like blobs:
They all look like very old men who are either extremely surprised, angry, or sleepy

T - I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but how would you feel about an equally-snarky article written by a crazily pro-babies for everyone Quiverfull loon?

posted January 24, 2012 08:15 PM            

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- I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but how would you feel about an equally-snarky article written by a crazily pro-babies for everyone Quiverfull loon?

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omg

TBH, it would drive me BA-nanas! LOL

Good point. I get you.

Have more to say, but might have to wait until tomorrow. Was only popping in for a sec and must get back to what i was doing.

posted January 24, 2012 08:17 PM            

don't mind at all!

posted January 25, 2012 05:34 AM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
A guy told me that after a certain age men are supposed to be able to show children to prove virility and/or heterosexuality or some such. He got funny looks in his office because he was the only man who never had a wife and kids.

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posted January 25, 2012 09:11 AM            

So, I don't feel pressure to have kids. If people don't like it, they can "kiss my boot".

My main fear is an accident. It's enough to scare me out of sex, though I feel a lot of curiosity about love. The sex thing is a major issue, especially since I know someone whose son had a vasectomy and was told he was safe and then boom another kid(and it is 100% sure his).

So yeah, the failure rate of birth control and that possibility terrifies me and is the REAL reason, I'm learning, as to why I don't want sex, even if there is a part of me is curious about love (not that I NEED love, but every now and then I am curious about dating, and the sex issue stops me from really exploring it).

posted January 25, 2012 09:29 AM            

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I very strongly disagree with the idea that if this happens it's "meant" to be.

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I hope you did not garner from what I said that I apply that to EVERY woman. My saying so about my situation was totally individual and should not be seen as my opinion for all. Also, I did say

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but do not and would not disagree with anyone who would have chosen to do so.

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so hopefully you understand that I don't disagree with abortion at all, it was just not the right choice for me. The issue is SO individualized. I won't get into my personal story here, but EVERYONE has their own story. This is the point I am trying to make.

posted January 26, 2012 04:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by mockingbird:
RP - You're wise in your decision to use another form of birth control on top of an IUD.
IUD pregnancies do happen, though extremely rare, and some even carry to term after the IUD removal.

(My aunt's did.)

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I don't mean to be rude, but is your aunt much older than you/from a much older generation (I know that it's not polite to ask age, but my point is wondering if advances have been made to improve the effectiveness; some people have very young aunts and occasionally even aunts who are the same age and younger, though, so am just curious)?

From what I understand, the IUD is the most effective form of birth control. Most pregnancies that occur do so when it is expelled and the woman does not know this. However, you can check every day for the strings.

I have several relatives in my family without kids. I know for sure that one couple is by choice, am not sure about the others. I know the one by choice used birth control (presumably the pill) and as far as I know, nothing bad ever happened.

Personally, I would not carry any pregnancy to term. I wouldn't even tell my husband (and yes, I would have to have a husband if I was going to have sex with someone). I would just go do it and that would be it. Whatever it takes, I will not be a mother.

I'd honestly rather never have a relationship and never experience love than have that happen to me. I'd rather be dead, frankly, than have that happen.

I suppose more and more I'm figuring out that being single is right for me, even if there is that small part of me that is curious to know love and closeness. In talking about it here, I think I'm getting my answer. I've been praying to know about it, and I think that this just reaffirms what I've believed. Still, it's good to explore this and learn about myself, even if it does seem pointless because my view remains the same.

Well, actually, it has changed a bit. I can admit now that fear of pregnancy (which, for me, is as bad as AIDS because I do not want it, and am just shy of being militant about it) is the real reason why I don't want a relationship. STDs are also a reason, but pregnancy trumps that and for me would be a worse consequence.

posted January 26, 2012 04:24 AM            

If he doesn't want marriage or kids, awesome! But, he does owe it to her to tell her that, just like someone who wanted kids would owe it to a childfree person to tell them that they did want kids.

posted January 26, 2012 05:13 AM            

warning: if you're not a childfree person, you probably won't find it funny, so don't look