posted January 26, 2012 07:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
I don't mean to be rude, but is your aunt much older than you/from a much older generation (I know that it's not polite to ask age, but my point is wondering if advances have been made to improve the effectiveness; some people have very young aunts and occasionally even aunts who are the same age and younger, though, so am just curious)?

From what I understand, the IUD is the most effective form of birth control. Most pregnancies that occur do so when it is expelled and the woman does not know this. However, you can check every day for the strings.
.

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IUDs, then, too, were/are considered the most effective form of non-sterilizing birth control.
Even with them, though, there's a miniscule chance.

She elected against termination after the fetus survived removal of the device from her uterus - you wouldn't have to make the same choice.

posted January 26, 2012 10:19 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
another really great post, this one more serious:

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posted January 26, 2012 10:30 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
this picture is too big to post, but damn, it's funny if you're a childfree person

warning: if you're not a childfree person, you probably won't find it funny, so don't look

the only thing that I didn't like was taking God's name in vain, but the rest of this is hilarious
htt p://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly9yi9E4DI1qgisplo1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1327659107&Signature=Hz9YAcjC56glucTVKvFtBjW2WNg%3D

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posted January 26, 2012 10:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LEXX:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
[b]this picture is too big to post, but damn, it's funny if you're a childfree person

warning: if you're not a childfree person, you probably won't find it funny, so don't look

the only thing that I didn't like was taking God's name in vain, but the rest of this is hilarious
htt p://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly9yi9E4DI1qgisplo1_1280.png?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJ6IHWSU3BX3X7X3Q&Expires=1327659107&Signature=Hz9YAcjC56glucTVKvFtBjW2WNg%3D

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[/B][/QUOTE]

awww thanks Lexx

also thank you for your support, even though you do have a child--I really appreciate parents like you who are understanding and open-minded and respectful of other people's choices

the second picture reminds me of something from "Nightmare Before Christmas"

posted January 26, 2012 10:44 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by RegardesPlatero:
awww thanks Lexx

also thank you for your support, even though you do have a child--I really appreciate parents like you who are understanding and open-minded and respectful of other people's choices

the second picture reminds me of something from "Nightmare Before Christmas"

---

I have the deepest respect for choice to have children or not.
Just because I have lost over 26 pregnancies, some twins, and have only one offspring;
does not make it right for me to tell any one they should have children.
In fact these days,
I tend to tell folks;
"don't bother, unless you really 100% want them,
because it is not a toy or game
or some idle amusement you can just put aside at whim.
They will demand your attention and resources in more ways than you thought could be possible
for at least 18 years.
So yes indeed,
if one does not want children, especially on this over crowded planet,
then please do not have them.
My biggest complaint is the breeders out there who should not be having them,
and are diluting the human gene pool with idiots who become criminals making more babies,
whilst intelligent folks do not reproduce.

posted January 26, 2012 10:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LEXX:

My biggest complaint is the breeders out there who should not be having them,
and are diluting the human gene pool with idiots who become criminals making more babies,
whilst intelligent folks do not reproduce.

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that's so ironic isn't it and something i find so true in real life. among those i personally know a couple had to go invitro 3x before they could conceive and that consisted of yearly trips and much frustration whilst some just pop them out and can't even afford baby shoes..

since i'm an earth sign alot of the worries for me are pretty much finance related. schooling, etc.. i do secretly think it will ground me or make me more responsible lol! not that thos qualities are lacking in me. i just think i'd be more driven or focused if i have kids. i dunno!

posted January 27, 2012 03:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LEXX:
Yes it does remind me of "Nightmare Before Christmas" too.

I have the deepest respect for choice to have children or not.
Just because I have lost over 26 pregnancies, some twins, and have only one offspring;
does not make it right for me to tell any one they should have children.
In fact these days,
I tend to tell folks;
"don't bother, unless you really 100% want them,
because it is not a toy or game
or some idle amusement you can just put aside at whim.
They will demand your attention and resources in more ways than you thought could be possible
for at least 18 years.
So yes indeed,
if one does not want children, especially on this over crowded planet,
then please do not have them.
My biggest complaint is the breeders out there who should not be having them,
and are diluting the human gene pool with idiots who become criminals making more babies,
whilst intelligent folks do not reproduce.

---

THIS. Except the part about intelligent people not reproducing, as I do think that people should always have a choice and that intelligent people shouldn't be forced/pressured into reproducing. I also tend to see the 'idiots who produce criminals' as those who (a) teach no discipline and have no rules/structure; (b) those who have criminal lives themselves and who are not the type that wants to change and have a better life, and (c) people who mistreat and abuse their kids, as this is commonly found in people with criminal history--not ALL people who are abused go on to become criminals, and not ALL criminals have been abused, but it is something that commonly shows up.

Whenever I'm around a kid and it starts acting up, I feel this overpowering sense of anger, stress, and frustration--and I'm talking about a kid several feet away from me, sometimes even far enough away to be out of sight. I just want it to shut up and stop screaming. I don't feel a need to comfort it; I feel mad that it's allowed to misbehave and disturb everyone. There's something in my physiology that just gets really intensely frustrated and yes, angered when that happens; it's this energy I feel in my body. This happens on a regular basis. I feel very anxious and tense around them, no matter how often I am around them.

With animals, I'm different. I love dogs, for example, and enjoy caring for them. With babies and children, however, it's the exact opposite. My therapist told me that it's something in my neurological makeup that can't be changed and she, who is VERY highly qualified (is generally regarded as one of the best in my area), told me that I am right in saying that this would not change and I could not handle the stress.

And, as I said, this is for children around me, sometimes out of sight range (but loud enough to hear). If I had to live with that in close proximity day in and day out, plus no sleep, plus having to clean up messes, plus the toll that it all takes on your body, plus having to change it and clothe it and feed it and pay all of its expenses (with funds that I do not have), and on top of that fulfill the social expectation that this makes me feel happy and fulfilled, especially when it's something that I never wanted for myself...well, frankly, that would not turn out well or be a good situation.

I do not want to harm children, do not condone child abuse, and so I'm not saying anything like that; I'm simply saying that I know for myself that I could not handle it, and that I should not do it, and on top of that, have no desire for it. To be honest, I feel bad, when I hear about those kinds of crimes (i.e., when a parent is stressed out and snaps), for both the parent and the child. I feel bad for the child for being the victim of a crime, and I feel bad that the parent was in that situation, perhaps without knowing that he/she would not be able to handle it. It's sad for all involved, especially when the person either can't get help or else when they feel so ashamed to have to ask for it that they do not go. And, of course, if you ever read comments on those articles, people go on and on about how they can't understand it, but we absolutely NEED to understand these things so that we can reduce the incidence of them happening to people. We NEED to accept and understand that not everyone can handle or should even try to handle the stresses of parenthood, and we need to be more supportive both of those who choose never to have children as well as those who are struggling with it, instead of seeing either as "abnormal" or "failures". If someone is having trouble adjusting to being a parent, that person deserves to have help and support and not to be judged, criticized, ostracized, or otherwise treated with anything but compassion.

There's so much stigma about talking about the stresses of parenthood. There's this societal pressure to feel fulfilled, happy, and to just naturally take to it. However, that is SO unrealistic and it's such an unfair burden to put on the shoulders of parents. We should allow them safe places to talk about what stresses them out and we should give young people (teens) realistic ideas about what parenthood is REALLY like (i.e., as a part of comprehensive sex education) so that they can make informed choices as to whether or not to become a parent, and the choice should be respected either way.

posted January 27, 2012 04:37 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by amowls**:
I don't want kids but I don't particularly like the term "breeders" or people who go on and on about being "childfree." I don't like patronizing tones in general.

When I was little I never pretended to have a baby, but I did pretend to be a teacher

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In the childfree community, breeder isn't used to mean "anyone who has kids". It's specifically meant for people who have kids and don't raise them properly/who act like a$$holes, or who judge us/force their views.

"Parent, non-breeder" (PNB for short) is used for people who are really good parents who do not judge us or force their views on us, and who respect our choice to be CF. Me, I just use the "parent" part and no longer say "breeder". I personally like these people.

Most CF people don't hate everyone who has kids, just the people who are obnoxious about it. Some hate kids, some do not, some are in the middle. Me, my biggest feelings are apathy at best and anxiety/stress/frustration at worst.

I tend not to go on about being childfree, but I am becoming more and more comfortable being upfront and honest about it. As I've been healing from past traumas, I'm coming to the point that I am becoming less and less uncomfortable with openly discussing sexuality issues/reproductive issues. I'm getting more and more p.o.'d that people don't talk about these things openly and honestly. I'm not obnoxious about it, and don't put it all over my page or anything, but whenever the subject is brought up by someone, I say simply that I know that I never want kids, and it is not open for discussion. Anyone hassles me, they get blocked or simply ignored. My life, I'll live it how I want to.

posted January 27, 2012 09:12 AM            

I find the things you are saying interesting, because they are very similar to how I was before I became a mother. This bit

quote:

---

Whenever I'm around a kid and it starts acting up, I feel this overpowering sense of anger, stress, and frustration--and I'm talking about a kid several feet away from me, sometimes even far enough away to be out of sight. I just want it to shut up and stop screaming.

---

is exactly how I was. My mother and I would go shopping together and there would be children off in some isle far away screaming and I would literally get "hot under the collar" as it were, and begin to sweat and heart would race. I couldn't stand the sound. I would feel like "take your kid out of the store! How can you make the rest of us suffer! That is so rude!" I literally felt like this child was doing me harm, and their indifferent parent was allowing such an injustice. I NEVER babysat, spent little or NO time around my baby/toddler cousins, and generally stayed as far away from babies or kids as I could.

There was a very strange hormonal transformation that I cannot for the life of me explain, but it all changed when I did have my daughter. I KNOW that does not happen for everyone. There are many women who probably should stay child free, but have children, and then get "post partum" and want nothing to do with their children. That is a true sadness for sure. I think it is good if people come to the conclusion that they are not parent material before ever actually becoming one, because you can change your mind about NOT having kids, but you can't change it about having them once they are here. It's a really complicated issue though. How does one know if they will really be a good parent or not until they are in the midst of it? There is no way of knowing that. I feel that I was obviously not meant to be child free, because I am very happy in being a mother now. I have no intention of having any more children, and honestly, there are still times that I am very stressed out or frustrated or tired, but that is totally normal and acceptable. I have no illusions about the life of a parent, I don't pretend to be perfect or anything that I am not, especially where parenting is concerned. I just wake up every day and do the best I can.

quote:

---

There's so much stigma about talking about the stresses of parenthood. There's this societal pressure to feel fulfilled, happy, and to just naturally take to it. However, that is SO unrealistic and it's such an unfair burden to put on the shoulders of parents. We should allow them safe places to talk about what stresses them out and we should give young people (teens) realistic ideas about what parenthood is REALLY like (i.e., as a part of comprehensive sex education) so that they can make informed choices as to whether or not to become a parent, and the choice should be respected either way.

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This part I feel that I should address that there ARE places and organizations, websites, social networks etc. where people CAN discuss these things and the "societal pressure" you talk about is not nearly what it once was. There are even television shows now that show the completely ugly and scary side of parenthood with raw honesty and I think this is a very good thing. It's all about perspective though. I feel I am fortunate enough to be a nearly objective person in most things, so I can appreciate both sides of the issue, understand the feelings behind the jokes and situational humor, and feel content. Some people may watch and think "oh, that poor childless career woman" or "oh, look at those haggard and miserable parents!", and fail to appreciate the other side's lifestyle choices and daily foibles.

Be it in humor or dramatic sense, I think the world is moving towards more acceptance of differing opinions on a daily basis. As long as we keep our heads out of the politically fuelled BS that tries to break down our bridges, this "issue" won't even be one that has to be "argued" about, it will simply BE.

posted January 27, 2012 11:32 AM            

quote:

---

In the childfree community, breeder isn't used to mean "anyone who has kids". It's specifically meant for people who have kids and don't raise them properly/who act like a$$holes, or who judge us/force their views.

"Parent, non-breeder" (PNB for short) is used for people who are really good parents who do not judge us or force their views on us, and who respect our choice to be CF. Me, I just use the "parent" part and no longer say "breeder". I personally like these people.

Most CF people don't hate everyone who has kids, just the people who are obnoxious about it. Some hate kids, some do not, some are in the middle. Me, my biggest feelings are apathy at best and anxiety/stress/frustration at worst.

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posted January 27, 2012 07:55 PM            

"If you consider yourself to be intelligent, if you consider yourself to be an intellectual or even just educated to some degree then you certainly understand the principles of social and biological evolution. That being the case, the fact that intelligent humans are not reproducing as fast as uneducated, ignorant and in many cases stupid people should be bone chillingly scary to you. It should scare anyone who understands that if only stupid people reproduce then we are in fact de-evolving, culturally, intellectually, and perhaps even biologically.

posted January 27, 2012 11:12 PM            

Who with a life gives a crap if someone else doesn't want kids? I sure don't.

There are always going to be people that criticize whatever you do no matter what it is. That's life. If you don't have kids someone will look at you funny. If you have a kid someone else will look at you funny. If you only have one kid then people will ask you when you are having another (this happens to me and I am horrible because my son doesn't have a sibling, etc)

Whatever.

And no matter what you do there is someone in your family that is going to have something to say about it - especially if they are somehow personally affected by it (ie: not having or having grandkids, etc.) That would hit more to home but again... welcome to life. Yay.

This line in the OP struck me funny:

"So part of the reason I don't want babies is because I don't want to transform into one of them."

Really? LOL. She sure did a lot of crying and belly-aching.

posted January 27, 2012 11:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by NativelyJoan:

If you haven't seen the movie "Idiocracy" I highly recommend that you do. "Idiocracy" takes the patterns that we see developing today in our society and projects them forward into a distant future where intelligence has been completely bred out of the human species. [/B]

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posted January 28, 2012 04:48 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by MoonWitch:
I guess I don't get it.

Who with a life gives a crap if someone else doesn't want kids? I sure don't.

There are always going to be people that criticize whatever you do no matter what it is. That's life. If you don't have kids someone will look at you funny. If you have a kid someone else will look at you funny. If you only have one kid then people will ask you when you are having another (this happens to me and I am horrible because my son doesn't have a sibling, etc)

Whatever.

And no matter what you do there is someone in your family that is going to have something to say about it - especially if they are somehow personally affected by it (ie: not having or having grandkids, etc.) That would hit more to home but again... welcome to life. Yay.

This line in the OP struck me funny:

"So part of the reason I don't want babies is because I don't want to transform into one of them."

Really? LOL. She sure did a lot of crying and belly-aching.

My best friend is childfree. She doesn't give a crap. She loves her two cats. She sure doesn't be-grudge the people out there that picked a different path than she did. MOST people don't give her a hard time at all about it so she doesn't get all butthurt over the rare occasion that someone ignorant has said something stupid about it.

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posted January 28, 2012 05:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:
This topic and hearing Lexx and Regardes discuss intelligence and reproduction made me think of this piece I read. It's not something I take seriously but it was rather funny in it's hyper-ly biased and humorous form. It's not so much discussing our station in life in relation to what qualifies being educated and intelligent but the ability to think critically and independently. Meaning if there were more critical and free thinkers on this planet we probably wouldn't be compulsively breeding or overpopulating this earth, but who knows.

"If you consider yourself to be intelligent, if you consider yourself to be an intellectual or even just educated to some degree then you certainly understand the principles of social and biological evolution. That being the case, the fact that intelligent humans are not reproducing as fast as uneducated, ignorant and in many cases stupid people should be bone chillingly scary to you. It should scare anyone who understands that if only stupid people reproduce then we are in fact de-evolving, culturally, intellectually, and perhaps even biologically.

If you haven't seen the movie "Idiocracy" I highly recommend that you do. "Idiocracy" takes the patterns that we see developing today in our society and projects them forward into a distant future where intelligence has been completely bred out of the human species. It's a comedy, so it isn't realistic in many ways, but it has an underlying message that rings of truth: If only the stupid reproduce, then society will get progressively dumber with every generation...[b]Intelligence is a virtue but is it worthless without bravery. If you have brains and have a sense of what this world needs, then have children. Otherwise you have no one to blame but yourself when you find yourself old and infirm, surrounded by blithering morons." http://www.waitingforthestorm.com/smart-people-should-have-kids [/B]

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Well, though, no one is OBLIGATED to have kids just because they are intelligent, nor should they ever be. If it ever came to that, frankly, I'd commit suicide or go into hiding.

I don't feel that people should be bullied or pressured into having kids just because people don't want a stupid human race.

My life, I should be able to live it as I wish. My freedom and my personal happiness, frankly, matter more to me than does that of unknown masses of people that I will never meet, who will never matter to me. I get the idea of working together for the common good, but, at the same, individual freedom is VERY important to me.

And, to be honest, I'm going to be dead within the next 80 years, most likely sooner. I'll be taking my dirt nap and pushing up daisies by then, so what happens beyond those 80 years isn't really going to affect me (I very strongly do not believe in reincarnation). I know that might sound awful to some, but I'm not going to lie about it. I would hope that the world would be a good place even after I am no longer a part of it, but if it isn't, well, I'm not the one who will have to suffer through it. It would suck, but would have no personal affect on me beyond those 80 years--and '80' is the large estimate. It could very likely be less than that.

Part of me hopes to check out around 40, before things start getting bad. My big wish, though, is that I will die at the exact point that life is no longer enjoyable or worth living, or else the moment right before. I pray about it a lot.

As for not having kids, (a) there is NEVER any guarantee that your kids will take care of you when you are old and (b) I can always hire quality nursing, if I make good financial decisions and save my money for my later years, which is really important to me. I also plan to do whatever I can to stay healthy and to take preventative health steps to keep myself well, emotionally and mentally as well as physically, as they all influence each other.

And, frankly, even very intelligent people can have a mentally retarded child or else the child could die from something like cancer or an accident, so even if intelligent people breed, there are never any guarantees. With environmental pollution, too, that could also influence things for the negative. I remember reading a book called Lost Mountain for a college class and the author mentioned the impact that pollution had on people in Appalachia and that women there were having children with lower intelligence/higher incidence of retardation and other problems due to that. So, that's another factor.

On top of that, intelligent people do NOT always make good parents. Many are aloof, emotionally distant, or send their kids off to other people to raise who are more nurturing. Another book comes to mind--I don't recall the title, but it was for an international politics class, and it basically talked about the care industry and how so many wealthy, intelligent, successful people had their kids raised by people who were perhaps less intellectual but far more nurturing, often from developing countries. It mainly focused on the industry of care and how people buy nurture and love for their kids, but my point in mentioning it was that smart people can make horrible parents. I know that I would be a horrible mother (see my other posts).

And, too, remember that children who grow up with bad parents (be they neglectful, distant, or abusive) or else absent parents are statistically more likely to become criminals or else to become the kinds of parents that they had: it's not a cut-and-dried rule, but it is more likely. So, even if two people have a child who are intellectual/mentally intelligent, if they do not have emotional intelligence (and let's be honest: many do not), the child could end up becoming a criminal if it is not raised properly. And intelligent criminals are the most dangerous: they're the ones more likely to succeed in their lives of crime and the ones least likely to get caught/less likely to leave evidence behind.

So, emotional intelligence is important with child-rearing. If the people who are less book smart but who are very caring and nurturing no longer have children, then what kind of people will we have? Brainy, but heartless? Aloof? Cold? If taken to extremes, sociopathic?

My belief remains the same: people should always have a choice as to whether or not to be a parent. We will never have a perfect human race. And honestly, would you want to have one? In which no deviations from the norm were allowed?

posted January 28, 2012 05:22 AM            

Personally I'm not as offended as the woman who wrote the article - most people arent. I find it more humorous than anything.

Maybe people expressing their opinions here gives people the idea that they are "butthurt" about it and lose sleep over it or something. I actually don't give alot of thought to it all generally.

The comments from parents can be annoying at most, yes, but I think we all let it go quite easily when we are out in the world and encounter someone like that.

I've personally never visited a CF board or anything like that because I don't care about the subject enough and don't care to argue or discuss it at length with people because it's usually pointless. People have their minds made up and that's fine. It's that live and let live thing. I do it quite well.

posted January 28, 2012 11:26 AM            

Which, btw, I often roll my eyes at articles and 'blogs' written by parents, too, and I usually avoid typical parenting boards. Those are often way over the top and idyllic. That's probably why most of my friends also happen to not have children for whatever reason.

I hate to see 'sides' drawn. Lines in the sand. Just because someone picks another life path. That goes both ways. I also hate to see people get so upset if they choose a slightly different path and **some** people make negative comments to them. The world really is not picking on them - just a few jerks or people that don't know any better. I promise it happens NO MATTER WHAT YOU CHOOSE - just sometimes in different forms.

I bet the Duggars get more crap than any childfree person i the world.

**edited for spelling. I should NOT type first thing when I wake up**

posted January 28, 2012 03:43 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by T:
I think this thread has gotten a little out of hand.

Personally I'm not as offended as the woman who wrote the article - most people arent. I find it more humorous than anything.

Maybe people expressing their opinions here gives people the idea that they are "butthurt" about it and lose sleep over it or something. I actually don't give alot of thought to it all generally.

The comments from parents can be annoying at most, yes, but I think we all let it go quite easily when we are out in the world and encounter someone like that.

I've personally never visited a CF board or anything like that because I don't care about the subject enough and don't care to argue or discuss it at length with people because it's usually pointless. People have their minds made up and that's fine. It's that live and let live thing. I do it quite well.

Anyway, carry on. I'm bored with this subject now.

---

*shrug*

I was posting early in the morning, just shootin the breeze and all, so yeah...

I don't really get butthurt about this issue except when people are obnoxious or else if I'm already upset anyway and this is the "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of thing.

posted January 28, 2012 04:04 PM            

I wonder how many of them are going to get older to rail on CF vs. parenthood, homeschooled vs. public school, Baptist vs. Pentecostal, meat eater vs. vegetarian (and even vegetarian vs. vegan!), urban vs. rural, Texas country vs. Nashville, PC vs. Mac, Star Trek vs. Star Wars, or even Sig vs. Glock (a popular debate of mutual passionate contempt that utterly baffles me). Hopefully they'll just grow up. But as the saying goes, aging is mandatory, maturity (and self-confidence?) is optional.

On the flip side, I wonder if kids watching their parents act this way isn't what gets them to thinking that acting that way is acceptable? I don't recall any of the adults I was around frequently being that way which may explain why I wasn't that way myself (though maybe it was just I had a sense of curiosity about differences that others did not).

Btw, I kid you not, I saw a guy on IMDB wondering why little girls preferred Hannah Montana to Slayer and worried what it meant for the next generation (cannot tell if that person was serious or just trolling for the lulz)...

posted April 02, 2012 05:57 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=238043262961434&set=a. 236175976481496.48529.131044350327993&type=1&theater

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