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Author Topic:   Childfree
T
Knowflake

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posted January 24, 2012 12:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thought I'd share this article. when i had a facebook awhile back, i shared it there and not surprisingly, it was like, the least popular thing i ever posted.

Enjoy.

Why I don't want children

Guess what I don't want? Babies. I never have and I never will. Please don't tell me I'll change my mind. It's patronising, and how the hell do you know anyway?

I denounced motherhood when I was young. Seven or so. My earliest thought on the matter was my earliest thought on babies altogether and it went: isn't it all a bit - vulgar? It has become more and more pronounced as I've got older. All the stuff that was supposed to make me reconsider has happened to me; and I haven't. Advanced age (I am 37), falling in love, peer pressure from breeding friends... So, no, I don't want babies.

Why don't I want babies? I'll ignore for a moment the insolence of the question. I'll ignore the fact that nobody ever asks a woman who wants kids why she wants kids; no one ever tells a woman who expresses a deep-rooted compulsion to procreate that she'll change her mind. Instead, I'll say: for lots of reasons. It's not that I am a power-crazed career ***** . I mean - I am; but that's unrelated. I didn't want babies long before that madness kicked in - the no-baby policy has facilitated it, but hasn't compounded it.

And it's not that I don't like babies. I am ambivalent towards them. I am like your average bloke in that I don't especially want to cuddle or touch or smell them, though I'll do it out of politeness. (Well, maybe not the smelling. And, I have to say I find those women who throw themselves at any baby, whether or not they know it or its parents, perplexing. It's unseemly, isn't it? Like throwing yourself at a man?) I adore my goddaughter, but I can take or leave all other small people.

I really don't like what parenthood does to grown-ups. This latest generation of parents - oh, it's odd, isn't it? I like the ones I know. Mostly. They're OK, because they're my friends - I chose them, they are by definition better than those parents I don't know. (Even if they aren't - I know for a fact that they were better, once, back before they had children, and I reckon they'll resume something approaching normal service once the buggers have gone to school. Won't they?) But modern parents en masse? That pampering cult of Bugaboo-wielding, Mumsnet-bothering dullness?

Spare me. Spare me the one-track conversations. Spare me the self-righteousness, the sense of entitlement (you, with the toddler-on-wheels: astonishing news just in! You don't have pavement priority over the rest of the world!). Spare me the pretensions of martyrdom and selflessness. (It's my experience that parenthood doesn't make anyone less selfish. Humans simply extend the sphere of their selfishness when they have kids, so that it embraces the kids and dishes out a fierce battering to the rest of the world. Also - no one has a baby out of selflessness. You really want to be selfless? Adopt, lover.) And please spare me the pitying glances (I promise I don't want what you have. Honestly, I find it mind-boggling that you don't want what I have. Are you quite sure you're not poleaxed with jealousy?). While I always offer pregnant women my seat on the Tube, on my darkest days I also find myself thinking: let's get something straight here. Your condition is self-inflicted, you made the choice to get knocked up, and you presumably knew it'd leave you incapacitated in this way. I don't know if you deserve my seat any more than you would if you were incapacitated by a banging hangover, say, or a great deal of shopping.

So part of the reason I don't want babies is because I don't want to transform into one of them. There are quite enough of them out there, already.

There are other reasons. I like my lifestyle, my career, my body, my capacity to run off to New York at short notice if the opportunity arises. I like that my money is my own to squander. I like that my weekends can be slept away, or drunk away, or read away; that I am not sleep deprived, or if I am, I can remedy that easily. I like how last-minute my time is, how disorganised, how guilt-free.

I really, really like how certain I am about this. It's probably the only thing I never fret over. I never wonder if I'm making the right decision in remaining childless. And you know what? Screw the rational arguments, the truth of why I don't want babies - the only thing I ever really need to say is this: because I don't.

Mine is not an easy position to maintain. Partly because our society won't have it. Partly because our popular culture denies it. The great big emotional drama of my entire generation - infertility and all its attendant horrors, IVF, endless tests, artificial hormones, the prospect of a childless future - does not touch me. Everyone I know is caught up in this nightmare in some way. I am miserable for my friends with fertility issues, of course, for my friends who desperately want families. They're so, so sad about it. At the same time, I do have to stop myself going: "Seriously?" every time they cry on my shoulder. As for me, I have to constantly deal with the suggestion that I am wrong, or abnormal, or damaged because I do not want the very thing that everyone else wants so desperately. How perverse of me. How contrary. How (someone actually said this to me recently) not normal.

It doesn't help that fertility is the great cultural preoccupation of the day.
While TV and film scriptwriters and commercial novelists have given up
flogging the idea that marriage and monogamy will save us, they now seem extremely attached to the idea that motherhood will save us.

Even the cool films perpetuate this new romantic ideal: Juno, Knocked Up, Baby Mama... Today's rom coms end on maternity wards; five years ago they ended at the right end of a church aisle. The iconography of happy endings is no longer flouncy white dresses and engagement rings - it's blue lines on pregnancy test kits and outward-bulging tummies. In this world my not wanting babies is shorthand for my not wanting to be happy. How perverse of me. How contrary. Et cetera.

Am I going to have a ghastly awakening 10 years down the line? Am I going to get bludgeoned over the head by the realisation that my life is empty, meaningless and loveless and I'm staring into the crevasse of a lonely old age? Maybe. And then maybe not.

But you know what? I'm not going to start breeding now, just in case. No bloody way. Because - do you know what I don't want? What I really don't want? Babies. That's what.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/feb/08/motherhood-children-babies1

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T
Knowflake

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posted January 24, 2012 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It takes guts to say: 'I don't want children'

Cameron Diaz always struck me as sensible. Maybe because she never joined Scientology, or married anyone patently ridiculous, despite toiling for a decade and a half at the coalface of Hollywood A-listiness. Maybe because she gives a damn fine impression of not taking herself too seriously.

Last week, Diaz proved herself especially sensible. I'll go further. She was wise, insightful, right.

The actress told Cosmopolitan magazine that being a woman and admitting you didn't want children is taboo. "I think women are afraid to say that they don't want children because they're going to get shunned ... I have more girlfriends who don't have kids than those that do. And honestly? We don't need any more kids. We have plenty of people on this planet."

Diaz, who is 36, didn't go as far as to say that she definitely does not want children. But to be openly, loudly undecided on the issue - at the point when her biological clock should be ticking so loudly that she can hardly sleep, eat or think about anything else - is to be brave enough, frankly. It's an admission that invites suspicion and pity. To be a thirtysomething woman in 2009 and not want a child so desperately that you think you might die is simply not allowed.

In February, I wrote a column for Observer Woman about not wanting children. I am 37, nearly a year to the day older than Diaz and I just don't. I never have.

Unlike Diaz, I did not know that voluntary childlessness is an unacceptable crime to cop to. I thought I was merely expressing an opinion. I thought that people who want - or have - children, would accept that I do not, just as I accept their choice. After all, it's my (notional) babies I am rejecting, not theirs.

I was wrong.

I stated my case. I listed my reasons, even though it annoys me that the child-free have to justify their status. No one ever asks a parent why they have kids. But I explained that I like my life as it is, my lifestyle, my career. I explained that I had felt this way for 30 years - and that even though all the things that were supposed to change my mind (love, a long-term relationship, pressure from breeding contemporaries) had happened to me, I remain resolutely childless.

I explained that I like the potential of my childless existence: to travel, sleep, read, drink, watch HBO box sets, have feckless fun.

I talked about how difficult it is to be child-free, when popular culture fetishises parenthood in general and motherhood in particular. When the dramatic arc of all TV dramas, of all rom-coms, is dependent on someone becoming pregnant and finding true happiness as a consequence. Babies are the newest archetype on the happy ending, therefore not wanting them is tantamount to not wanting to be happy.

I talked about how weird it is to be disconnected from this baby-crazy culture. Like being sober while everyone else is drunk. I talked about how strange it is to not even care whether or not I'm infertile, when apparently it's all anyone else thinks about.

Was I antagonistic? Possibly. I tried not to be, but I am passionate about this. I was certainly a bit sensational, a bit flippant. The headline referred to the rise of the "dummy mummy" generation - an inflammatory turn of phrase.

The reaction to the piece was terrifying. Emails and letters arrived, condemning me, expressing disgust. I was denounced as bitter, selfish, un-sisterly, unnatural, evil. I'm now routinely referred to as "baby-hating journalist Polly Vernon".

So yes, Cameron Diaz, I can tell you from experience that you are right. Admit that you don't ache for children with every fibre of your being and you will be shunned. Shunning's the tip of the iceberg. I wish I'd been shunned. Shunning would have been blissful, relatively.

The furore's blown over; my childlessness endures. I've registered a gender split in the way people respond to it, if it comes up socially.

Women might think I'm in denial, but they let me get on with it now. Men, meanwhile, are astounded. Flummoxed. They become aggressive, sneering. They psychoanalyse me, they try to work out what's wrong with me. Who knows why? Perhaps they feel rejected. Perhaps the idea that there are women at large who are not actively pursuing their sperm is an out-and-out affront to a certain kind of man. The same men who have spent years believing that all women secretly want to trap them into commitment and fatherhood, probably.

For whatever reason, I've been pulled up on my wanton childless status, loudly and at length, by three different men, in three different pubs, over the course of the last fortnight alone.

Here's the thing: we need to stop pretending that childlessness isn't happening to us. It is. The birth rate in Europe is in steep decline. We know this. We know that, currently, 40% of UK university graduates aged 35 are childless and that at least 30% will stay that way permanently. We know that much of this childlessness is involuntary or, at least, unconsidered, the consequence of infertility, a lack of opportunity or leaving it too late.

But some of it will be like mine - cherished, rigorously maintained, valued. For everyone's sake, it's good to have that sort of a blueprint on a life without children. Childlessness is going to be a feature in many of our lives; we need to start seeing it as a choice, a valid option, rather than a failing. We certainly need it not to be taboo.

We need to stop making the voluntarily childless feel like they have a guilty secret. We need to stop shunning or vilifying the likes of me (in this instance, at least), and, much more importantly, Cameron Diaz and her mates.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jun/14/polly-vernon-childlessness-cameron-diaz-babies

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PixieJane
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posted January 24, 2012 12:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I can't help but wonder how much criticism and condemnation she got was because of the criticism and condemnation of people who chose a different path in her editorial rather than her actual personal choice.

I'm sure her stance drew criticism all by itself. Last summer I was interrogated by my family for being unmarried and childless when I was 28, and I was as respectful and non confrontational about why that was so as I could be. That said, had I instead blasted them the way Polly Vernon did her readers there would have been far more hostility, including from those who respected my choices, and there might have even been violence...

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SunChild
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posted January 24, 2012 12:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I commend those who can recognize that they don't want children, my friend does not want kids, she just does not have the desire. It is also good that one can make that decision because there are a lot out there who failed to recognize that who brought a child into the world and it did not work out so good. PPD being under that umbrella or post partum psychosis. Then there are those who you can tell are born to be mothers! It's very wise and honest to learn about yourself to know whether you want to breed or not. Ive seen vile reactions in both
male and female when a baby cries/ toddler tantrum, wheras for myself, no matter how loud and intense the cry or tantrum is, it does not phase me. I'll read the article now. I just want to say I totally get it!

I being a mum and I my anti baby stuff friends

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mockingbird
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posted January 24, 2012 12:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mockingbird     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
I can't help but wonder how much criticism and condemnation she got was because of the criticism and condemnation of people who chose a different path in her editorial rather than her actual personal choice.


...Yeah.

I have kids, but I wouldn't suggest that everyone (or anyone) need follow the same path - if nothing else, I remember the disgust (and I'll not call that too strong a word) I elicited from people when in my teens and early 20s I said that I didn't want children.

But, even with that, my reaction to the author's tone was, "Whatevs, b**** ."

One point: As she implied, many educated women aren't having children...and those who do have enough self-imposed guilt to contend with without being called "Dummy Mummies".

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NickiG
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posted January 24, 2012 12:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i didnt even read it all, but then again, do i really need to? lol

i didnt even think it was that taboo to say you dont want kids, but i have noticed this whole thing where everyone, even my own family (who should know me well enough) say "its different when its your own" "you'll change your mind one day"

when? when i accidentally get pregnant and for some reason decide to keep it?? which will never happen?

------------------
I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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SunChild
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posted January 24, 2012 12:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh this just reminded me of a saying I really, well... Hate!

Mothers with newborns or children " my life has meaning now"....

ME: "wtf! 'gasp' " you mean it took having a baby to have meaning in your life? That's a recipe for disaster! Ok it ADDS to it, it most awesome and beautiful but it's not the be all and end all!

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NickiG
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posted January 24, 2012 12:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i didnt even think about being free to do the things i want to do when i gave my reasons in Platero's thread

------------------
I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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T
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posted January 24, 2012 12:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I got the feeling her intention was to get a rise out of people with her tone and some of the things she wrote. She wrote in that way on purpose, so I found the humor in it.

I've dealt with the usual comments like, "You will change your mind someday" etc, too. But have not such a strong reaction from people for her choice, as she did.

She IS from England, which might say something? I don't know.

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NickiG
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posted January 24, 2012 12:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
she might be in england, but that just goes to show how much of the baby craze is affecting the world, not just europe or america

------------------
I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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T
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posted January 24, 2012 12:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
SC,

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T
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posted January 24, 2012 12:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep, yep.

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mockingbird
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posted January 24, 2012 12:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mockingbird     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by T:
I got the feeling her intention was to get a rise out of people with her tone and some of the things she wrote.

Maybe she shouldn't act all surprised when she elicits negative reactions, then

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T
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posted January 24, 2012 12:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL, i agree, mockingbird.

have to admit I like her attitude though. LOL

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mockingbird
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posted January 24, 2012 12:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mockingbird     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NickiG:
she might be in england, but that just goes to show how much of the baby craze is affecting the world, not just europe or america



Honestly, I think that's happened because of falling birth rates.
I can't imagine a baby craze sweeping through places with high birth rates. When, as in Europe and much of the US, it becomes something that happens (on average) 2 times in a woman's life - and (on average) less that in more prominent socioeconomic circles - it becomes this big thing rather than a part of everyday living.

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NickiG
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posted January 24, 2012 12:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by T:
LOL, i agree, mockingbird.

have to admit I like her attitude though. LOL


to be honest, what woman who doesnt want to be a mother wouldnt like her additude,

------------------
I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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T
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posted January 24, 2012 12:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
True...

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NickiG
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posted January 24, 2012 12:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mockingbird:
Honestly, I think that's happened because of falling birth rates.
I can't imagine a baby craze sweeping through places with high birth rates. When, as in Europe and much of the US, it becomes something that happens (on average) 2 times in a woman's life - and (on average) less that in more prominent socioeconomic circles - it becomes this big thing rather than a part of everyday living.

there is a falling birthrate in this world??? even with all of the teen pregnancies that go on???

------------------
I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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T
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posted January 24, 2012 12:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unlike her, I like other people's children (as i get older, in smaller doses though). Babies arent my favorite stage of a human, but I enjoy tots and older kids and was always the fave, most requested baby-sitter in my neighborhood. I'm still proud of that. LOL. I also nannied for awhile, which was fun, but again drove home the fact that, deep down, I knew i'd never want any of my own.

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mockingbird
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posted January 24, 2012 12:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mockingbird     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NickiG:
to be honest, what woman who doesnt want to be a mother wouldnt like her additude,



C'mon, now, though.
What if it had been an article in which someone had called women who don't want children Lonely Loons?

(NO - I don't think that that describes childfree women - but it's a jerky name, no?)

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NickiG
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posted January 24, 2012 12:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mockingbird:
C'mon, now, though.
What if it had been an article in which someone had called women who don't want children Lonely Loons?

(NO - I don't think that that describes childfree women - but it's a jerky name, no?)


i'm sure the women who have kids get riled by her article, just like if a mother were to write an article all about the joys of motherhood would get on our nerves....so its really the same thing

naturally, i would get annoyed by a mother who preaches to me how great kids are, article or not....so its equally natural for mothers to get annoyed by this womans article

------------------
I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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mockingbird
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posted January 24, 2012 01:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mockingbird     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NickiG:
there is a falling birthrate in this world??? even with all of the teen pregnancies that go on???



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/magazine/29Birth-t.html?pagewanted=all
http://www.npr.org/2011/11/02/141901809/asian-european-nations-fret-over-birthrate-swoon
http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/censusstatistic/a/aabirthrate.htm

And the US has stayed at slightly above replacement rate mostly because of immigrant demographic trends:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sub-replacement_fertility

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mockingbird
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posted January 24, 2012 01:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mockingbird     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NickiG:
i'm sure the women who have kids get riled by her article, just like if a mother were to write an article all about the joys of motherhood would get on our nerves....so its really the same thing

naturally, i would get annoyed by a mother who preaches to me how great kids are, article or not....so its equally natural for mothers to get annoyed by this womans article



I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, 'cause I'm going to maintain that calling people names and implying that they're idiots isn't cool.

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NickiG
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posted January 24, 2012 01:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NickiG     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mockingbird:
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, 'cause I'm going to maintain that calling people names and implying that they're idiots isn't cool.

well, if that was the point of your post, then yes, i agree

name calling is by no means a good way to get your point across

------------------
I once saw a sign that said "sin is death" but if "all deaths are suicide (linda goodman)" and suicide is sin, then shouldnt "death is sin" be more appropriate?

when organic is used to describe food then you know we have come to a dark age in history

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T
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posted January 24, 2012 01:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for T     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't think that was cool either. I felt like she was going a bit OTT on purpose, but still doesnt make that kind of thing cool.

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