posted December 05, 2012 02:45 PM            

It's what's wrong and right about men and women. Dynamics. Sometimes, we understand each other perfectly and there is no need to "say" anything. Over explain, over analyze etc. I have a male FRIEND that has been my friend for 15 years. We started out as friends and it was established DAY ONE that neither of us was interested in anything more. We have been there for each other with no strings or confusion all this time. We had that "if I'm not married by the time I'm blah we'll get married" joke, but there was no real sexual/emotional attachment behind it. This kind of relationship is a RARITY in my experience. One or the other person will always end up making a move at one point. Drunken mistake, emotional meltdown/comfort mistake etc. I am lucky to have him in my life. One of a kind for sure.

Then I have FRIENDS that I know would take more if it were offered, but I don't want to offer, so I keep my distance and don't play games with them. I did in my younger years. And there are those that I would have taken more from had THEY made a move, and in fact have been burned in that situation myself.

posted December 05, 2012 02:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
I was being facetious in my last comment, btw. The whole "he said, she said/he perceived/she perceived" thing.

It's what's wrong and right about men and women. Dynamics. Sometimes, we understand each other perfectly and there is no need to "say" anything. Over explain, over analyze etc. I have a male FRIEND that has been my friend for 15 years. We started out as friends and it was established DAY ONE that neither of us was interested in anything more. We have been there for each other with no strings or confusion all this time. We had that "if I'm not married by the time I'm blah we'll get married" joke, but there was no real sexual/emotional attachment behind it. This kind of relationship is a RARITY in my experience. One or the other person will always end up making a move at one point. Drunken mistake, emotional meltdown/comfort mistake etc. I am lucky to have him in my life. One of a kind for sure.

Then I have FRIENDS that I know would take more if it were offered, but I don't want to offer, so I keep my distance and don't play games with them. I did in my younger years. And there are those that I would have taken more from had THEY made a move, and in fact have been burned in that situation myself.

I guess you just take life as it comes, and try not to have too many expectations. That's the only way to keep from getting too hurt in this world.

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Excellent, to me such a close relationship revolves around roles:

-He has to be a man, solid and there when needed but not clinging

Basically sometimes (imho) women need rocks in life, someone they can count on

-She has to understand his weaknesses and offer insights

Men need someone who understands them and can see their faults or mistakes with a fair eye

Out of my depth sort of, on this ghanima81, just my experience.

Now to be balanced there are also women who hang around men b/c they are into them and the feeling is not mutual from the male pov.

posted December 05, 2012 03:06 PM            

quote:

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Now to be balanced there are also women who hang around men b/c they are into them and the feeling is not mutual from the male pov.

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posted December 05, 2012 03:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
Yes, absolutely. It can go both ways. Humans fascinate me.

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Well, I think a fair question in the Gentleman v Nice Guy stuff is this:

At what point is a shoulder to cry on become being a wimp/nice guy?

posted December 05, 2012 03:17 PM            

It isn't something you just KNOW when you are first navigating the world of dating. It is learned. We are scarred, we have memories good and bad to show from our journeys. If we don't have the experiences we do, then we won't become who we are

posted December 05, 2012 03:24 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
I believe it depends on the person. I think if somebody is unable to be honest with themselves and their expectations or hopes, then they will always feel jaded in the end. If people can cut the games and the BS and get to the point, they would save themselves time, energy and emotion that may be wasted.

It isn't something you just KNOW when you are first navigating the world of dating. It is learned. We are scarred, we have memories good and bad to show from our journeys. If we don't have the experiences we do, then we won't become who we are

That's just my two cents. (couch psychologist here LOL)

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Fair enough, for myself I think it comes down to who should have compassion shown to them.

The PC view is everyone deserves compassion, imo the Gentleman's view is that is not so.

sometimes people bring massive problems on themselves through their own actions, actions they refuse to change, then they expect compassion.

I'm thinking of the great scene in the poor movie Godfather pt 3 where the pope tells Michael "it is right that you suffer" after admitting he had Fredo murdered.

Sometimes, one can love someone or just have feelings for them BUT their own actions mean they will suffer for them.

posted December 05, 2012 03:42 PM            

My ex put me through a lot. I put my wants and needs on the back burner in all aspects of my life during and after our relationship. He manipulated and caused much pain not only to me and my family, but also to another and their family due to his selfishness. So, when he had trials happen to him, it was pretty hard for me to feel sorry for him in any way. But, being a compassionate person (Mercury and Mars in 11th in Aqua, Aqua sun), I was still supportive and kind. He considers me a "friend". I honestly have hate in my heart for him, but I am the bigger person and still listen. Granted, he is the father of my child so I am stuck with him in my life.

But at the same time, due to my own choices in life, I could very well deserve the crap he put me through. It all comes full circle. Karma will be paid in the end.

posted December 05, 2012 03:54 PM            

I like the serenity prayer:

quote:

---

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

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---- "i'm not being negative lol just calling it like i see it." ----

posted December 05, 2012 03:56 PM            

As for everyone deserves compassion, imo there are degrees of compassion. The difference between Empathy and Sympathy in my pov.

I also tend to think the nice guy/manipulator is one of the key issues.

Underneath it all, women suspect a attempt of manipulation by the nice guy and b/c of that instinctively it is distrusted.

posted December 05, 2012 03:56 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
Well, I won't commiserate with you over that AQ91, here is why:

Life goes on

Don't get lost in that moment, extract your lesson and move onwards otherwise it is a bit like dragging a corpse strapped to your back as you meet new people.

Drop that burden Brother, it's old and quite dead, find new life and leave that old one.

She was not worthy of you thusly spend not a single moment of our most precious gift, time, thinking about it.

24 hours
14,400 seconds a day
525600 seconds in a year

She deserves none of them

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posted December 05, 2012 04:03 PM            

BUT, he would go out all the time to do favors to friends, he was the "shoulder" for multiple female friends, and always talked about how nice he was to everyone.

He has a "victim" mentality big time.

posted December 05, 2012 04:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ghanima81:

Long story short, he treated me like a useless object. He told me he wanted to kill me and wanted to crash the car into a telephone pole once when we argued while driving. He cheated on me, lied to me, and had me convinced if I left him, he would turn my family against me.

BUT, he would go out all the time to do favors to friends, he was the "shoulder" for multiple female friends, and always talked about how nice he was to everyone.

He has a "victim" mentality big time.

He is a Cancer sun whose mother left when he was 12. ISSUES.

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He sounds psychotic.

Also sounds like wolf in sheep's clothing, nice guys to anyone but you, sure sign of manipulation.

Glad you are amongst us in this community.

posted December 05, 2012 04:10 PM            

quote:

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Leo moon, I have something of a unique chart Odette, Scorpatarious (Mars, Venus, Jupiter, 8th House all Scorpio), Aries Ascendant, Pluto squaring the Sun.

For me, it just means I'm very "real"..lack tact though.

and you?

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That doesn't surprise me. The men I've liked most in my life, as well as the only man I have ever been in love with have Scorpio prominent and in particular Scorpio Mars.

I really hope to meet & spend my life with someone who has Venus/Mars in Scorpio in aspect with my Venus/Mars. I've always - for a LONG while now thought this would be the perfect guy for me.

posted December 05, 2012 04:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Padre -

That doesn't surprise me. The men I've liked most in my life, as well as the only man I have ever been in love with have Scorpio prominent and in particular Scorpio Mars.

I really hope to meet & spend my life with someone who has Venus/Mars in Scorpio in aspect with my Venus/Mars. I've always - for a LONG while now thought this would be the perfect guy for me.

I have a Taurus Venus sextile Capricorn Mars. I literally agree with everything you are saying. That is exactly what I need in a guy 100%
But I guess not every woman out there will need the same things I need...
It is partially a 'chemistry' thing as well. You have to find the right person

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True, for myself I realize I'm a very difficult and stubborn person to deal with so romance for me is a rare commodity and quite precious.

Suspect I care to much, I'll learn everyone's name whom I come in contact with, learn their problems, their hopes, and get to know them and actually care about how they are doing.

Unfortunately in these times some take such attentiveness as a ominous sign of a bringer of darkness..in their pov you are setting them up for some nebulous purpose.

When that purpose never comes they assume there is something wrong with you..which is why the whole "nice guy" thing tinges me with irony.

posted December 05, 2012 04:24 PM            

And yet life goes on. I still am kind to him. I still haven't taken him to court or done any of the things people do when somebody has abused them in that way. I just don't care, I'm free of him finally. It's all about my daughter. As long as we are good with each other for her sake, it's all I can ask. And I suppose it's a bit of that "nurturing/maternal instinct" thing I mentioned earlier. Still hoping that he will turn out better after all he has done, I guess.

I say this, bad boys don't think they are bad, and nice guys don't think they are bad. Same with women. It's hard to face the reality of who we truly are. Ego and such.

posted December 05, 2012 04:29 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
Yeah, a bit sociopathic. If I told you all the stories of the last four years of my life, you wouldn't believe them. That scary.

And yet life goes on. I still am kind to him. I still haven't taken him to court or done any of the things people do when somebody has abused them in that way. I just don't care, I'm free of him finally. It's all about my daughter. As long as we are good with each other for her sake, it's all I can ask. And I suppose it's a bit of that "nurturing/maternal instinct" thing I mentioned earlier. Still hoping that he will turn out better after all he has done, I guess.

I say this, bad boys don't think they are bad, and nice guys don't think they are bad. Same with women. It's hard to face the reality of who we truly are. Ego and such.

I have no place for ego in my life. That's what I've learned after all of this.

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My goodness, so difficult.

I envy your freedom, you are a very strong person and I'm sure your Daughter is in good hands..yours.

Oops, was that being a "nice guy"..

posted December 05, 2012 04:43 PM            

(sorry for hijacking your thread)

posted December 05, 2012 04:55 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
Well thank you. I can't claim to be so righteous as I sound. I own my mistakes. It takes doing that before you can see clearly. Admit, own, live your truth, and move on. Exactly what I am teaching my little one. And I will NEVER speak ill of her father. It's not my place to make her aware of his past, especially if he can someday rectify his own mistakes.

(sorry for hijacking your thread)

And dudes, nice guys DON'T finish last. Just be who you are, don't make excuses or need validation for it. Somebody will love every bit of you and it will all have been worth it.

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Thought this thread died months ago anyway.

"Nice Guys" do finish last, mainly b/c they are dishonest with themselves to begin with sooner or later what is in you will come out of you.

Bad Boys self sabotage

posted December 05, 2012 05:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ghanima81:
Is that what I am then? lmao mainly joking.

I see the delineation you are trying to make though, and I agree. There is a difference. Bloody head games with people, aren't there?

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posted December 05, 2012 05:03 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Lexxigramer:
Seems a lot of men and women play head games on each other.
What is so damn hard about being honest?
Leave the so called mystery and head games out!
And men and women cannot be friends?

And in a relationship, they cannot be best friends and lovers?
Wtf????????
Why bother to be with each other at all?
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeez!
I am on the wrong fraking planet it seems.

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No, not at all, all of this dance is meant to weed out those whom do not meet a subconscious standard.

On both sides.

If a man is bad at this stuff, all mental, in a world where man only has an advantage due to mental capacities, that is a genetic message imo.

posted December 05, 2012 05:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by ghanima81:
I was being facetious in my last comment, btw. The whole "he said, she said/he perceived/she perceived" thing.

It's what's wrong and right about men and women. Dynamics. Sometimes, we understand each other perfectly and there is no need to "say" anything. Over explain, over analyze etc. I have a male FRIEND that has been my friend for 15 years. We started out as friends and it was established DAY ONE that neither of us was interested in anything more. We have been there for each other with no strings or confusion all this time. We had that "if I'm not married by the time I'm blah we'll get married" joke, but there was no real sexual/emotional attachment behind it. This kind of relationship is a RARITY in my experience. One or the other person will always end up making a move at one point. Drunken mistake, emotional meltdown/comfort mistake etc. I am lucky to have him in my life. One of a kind for sure.

Then I have FRIENDS that I know would take more if it were offered, but I don't want to offer, so I keep my distance and don't play games with them. I did in my younger years. And there are those that I would have taken more from had THEY made a move, and in fact have been burned in that situation myself.

I guess you just take life as it comes, and try not to have too many expectations. That's the only way to keep from getting too hurt in this world.

---

posted December 05, 2012 05:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Odette:
@Aqua ---

I like the serenity prayer:

---- "i'm not being negative lol just calling it like i see it." ----

It really does not seem like you are simply making observations here. You do seem upset and angry whenever someone brings up this subject.

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posted December 05, 2012 05:19 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Padre35:
No, not at all, all of this dance is meant to weed out those whom do not meet a subconscious standard.

On both sides.

If a man is bad at this stuff, all mental, in a world where man only has an advantage due to mental capacities, that is a genetic message imo.

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