posted April 23, 2013 10:54 PM            

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Originally posted by T:
Saturnine's post reminded me of why I was attracted to one particular person a long time ago when I was younger: because he seemed like a good and intelligent guy with common interests. Come to find out he wasnt. It was a total shock. It happened again many years later. ....though the second time....it didnt come as much of a surprise. I should have remembered the first time and heeded the warnings and red flags. It's always a dissapointment when you come to find out who you thought was a 'good guy' is actually an ******* in disguise. Or they are putting on a major front....they blow their cover to you...

Thankfully it doesnt happen often.

& both times it was my fault for not listening to my gut or heeding the early warning signs.

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posted April 23, 2013 11:18 PM            

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Originally posted by T:
Would you agree with some of this? Have you noticed that you and your friends usually do go out with more good guys than bad? Because looking back, myself......I honestly have to say that has been the case. I've known and been with more good guys than bad. And it's the good ones that are prefered and taken more seriously...

...Is anyone else tired of this stereotype? Today's woman wants a good guy......and I mean a REALLY good guy.....such a good guy that he's actually a real MAN - through and through.

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Great topic T! Yeah, looking back on the relationships I've had, even on the men I just dated, I can honestly say there was not ONE bad guy. They've all been great guys or I wouldn't have been in a relationship with them. The relationship always ended because we just weren't interested or we weren't right for each other.

It was actually sad a couple times going through break ups because there was no bad blood between the parties involved. I've always been most attracted to the outgoing but smarty pants types. Who are out there in the world rooting for the underdog, doing what they can to make a difference.

Bad guys have no direction in life, and they tend to be very insecure, selfish, emotionally immature and abusive. They also irritate the crap out of me. I actually can't even stand to be around those types. Experience and observation has shown me that they tend to prey on insecure, easily controllable types. This goes both ways for women who like bad guys and men who like bad ladies. I just don't have the patience for manipulators or idiot jerks in general. I've got a no nonsense attitude for them. To me real men are honest, open, friendly and care about making a difference in the world. I fall hard for humanitarian/good guy types.

posted April 23, 2013 11:28 PM            

I did date some who people probably thought of as bad. Two in school (though one was actually as a runaway) weren't at all serious and I'd say we were more pretending to be dating than taking it serious. They were never cruel to me...save that one time when my pseudo-boyfriend pushed me in a violent mosh pit as he thought it was funny, but after I managed to escape I violently expressed my displeasure and he was a good sport about it (apparently the look on my face was worth the beating he got as he was helpless with laughter when he saw me coming for him, he knew he had it coming, and it's not like he actually bled). But even that was just a boy being a silly boy with no impulse control, I think he'd have felt terrible had I been seriously injured.

At 17 I got serious with my first boy who got in trouble with the police, but he was an activist and rebel crusader (for example, he got arrested and in a lot of trouble for sitting in redwoods to prevent them from being logged "instead of being in school," though he was an unschooler), not some wannabe thug. He was very nice and considerate, though he was also passionate & determined about everything he cared about, and mixed with his blue mohawk, wild dress that often sported anti-establishment things (like a pot leaf with "legalize" which also served as a cop magnet), and skateboarding many adults were very nervous about him. But it was shallow judgment to dismiss him as a "bad boy." He never hit me, used me, or treated me badly, and I remember him fondly.

I suppose 2 females also serve, one a 17-year-old goth (short-lived, just before the boy I just mentioned) but she was actually a sweet artist, no matter how many thought she was a cutter, into vampires, or whatever (because that's how people saw goths back then, and it being less than a year after Columbine didn't help with the media hysteria).

One woman I was with for years was probably thought of as a jerk. Heck, back when we got to know each other (but I was with someone else at the time and didn't think of her "that way" at all back then) she responded by my saying the ax kick was the most useless move ever made by using one on me in response, knocking me to the ground and pinning me (and with such control that she didn't do me actual injury). I laughed and said, "I could be wrong." She was muscular, had tribal tats, and being a blasian raised in South LA (where blacks and Korean Americans tended to hate each other and she was hated by both, her own family abused her in many ways, including in breaking her arm) she picked up an attitude (finding acceptance in sports plus all the Aries in her chart only increased that). Her attitude and demeanor tended to scare people (one 13-year-old boy took one look at her as she got out of her jeep and took off running and she asked me, "What's his problem?" but hardly caring).

posted April 23, 2013 11:44 PM            

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Originally posted by T:
That is an interesting statement. Most badboys I know have been broke, moochers.

You said they "turned out to be very wealthy"....I am assuming they did not flaunt their wealth at the beginning? Most people don't ...or can't hide such a thing.

anyway....I think I can get your point....

that wealth or poverty does not make a good or bad man.

I've met as many weathy shmucks as I have poor or not so well off. So, I hear you......i think.

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posted April 24, 2013 12:08 AM            

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Originally posted by NativelyJoan:

It was actually sad a couple times going through break ups because there was no bad blood between the parties involved. I've always been most attracted to the outgoing but smarty pants types. Who are out there in the world rooting for the underdog, doing what they can to make a difference.

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I so hear you there.

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Bad guys have no direction in life, and they tend to be very insecure, selfish, emotionally immature and abusive. They also irritate the crap out of me. I actually can't even stand to be around those types. Experience and observation has shown me that they tend to prey on insecure, easily controllable types. This goes both ways for women who like bad guys and men who like bad ladies. I just don't have the patience for manipulators or idiot jerks in general. I've got a no nonsense attitude for them. To me real men are honest, open, friendly and care about making a difference in the world. I fall hard for humanitarian/good guy types.

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Again, same here & it's actually what has gotten me out of a potentially bad relationship. Some guys don't like it when you have a mind of your own and choose to speak it and don't put up with BS. I don't have patience for that type either. So in a way it's good because I p!ss the manipulators of right away - early on, and we can go our seperate ways rather quickly.

I tend to fall for the same type. And those who arent afraid to speak it.

posted April 24, 2013 12:15 AM            

Yeah, sometimes things get off to a rocky start.....i'm thinking of a few friendships myself that did...

but those are the best when you get over that hump and they end up being some of the best people youve ever encountered in your life.

as usual....you got the wheels turning.....and i'm somewhere in the middle of a memory lane....

posted April 24, 2013 12:25 AM            

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Originally posted by Kerosene:
Thats so immature aquaguy -_-
You need to grow up.
Girls who date scumbags aren't really gems either.

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I meant to touch on this as well as i was thinking about it earlier today.

Maybe tomorrow when I am not so exhausted.

posted April 24, 2013 12:30 AM            

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Kerosene: Hehe most women like confidence and not guys who feel sorry for themselves.

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Confidence in general is SEXAY,

posted April 24, 2013 12:37 AM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
I have yet to meet a "nice guy" who complained of women not wanting him for being nice who was genuinely nice.

As an extreme example I know a guy who didn't practice cleanliness (he'd literally buy new clothes rather than wash what he had), drink a lot of beer, had rotted teeth from terrible habits (from what he ate, drank, and smoked, plus the lack of hygiene again), was large and thought stalking was "cute" (and confused & angry when he got another restraining order), had a terrible family, slept on a puke-stained mattress for decades because he had to save his money for more weapons and body armor (and practiced such safety with them like when he damaged some of his cabinets while shooting his crossbow while drunk thinking it was funny but didn't understand why women found that disturbing), and yet the reason women didn't like him was because he was "nice." He was so "nice" that he refused a woman moving next door when she asked him if he'd help her get the couch inside because he knew "she wouldn't sleep with me for it" (brilliant, Holmes, and if she did sleep with you for it then better use super protection) and he "wasn't a chump." That is, he thought if he helped her move a couch in that she OWED him sex, but bitter experience taught him he'd get ripped off for "being nice."

And while extreme, that's also pretty typical for so-called "nice guys" who are actually manipulative, entitled jerks. Even the honest jerks are preferable because not only are they more honest they know better how to present themselves and play women (it may be a lie, but at leasthe tries to attract her rather than expecting her to feel pathetically grateful--enough to spread her legs in some cases--for small favors).

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posted April 24, 2013 03:08 AM            

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aquaguy91: I'd like to think that some girl will realize that i'm a guy who is worth giving a shot because I have all the qualities most women claim to want and complain about most men lacking

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You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Saying "I have these qualities therefore I'm worth a shot" is the entitlement nice guys display...if you think like that, that's thinking with entitlement.

It's the same with the woman and the cologne. A nice guy complex would hear:
"I wish the men I dated groomed themselves and smelled like you do."
And cynically think that the woman is a liar for not dating people who groomed and smelled like they did, and it becomes entitlement when they think they're worth something just because of a quality a woman, in a passing compliment, expressed she longed for. They are caught up on their own perceived rejection - and they think...

posted April 24, 2013 04:59 AM            

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Saying "I have these qualities therefore I'm worth a shot" is the entitlement nice guys display...if you think like that, that's thinking with entitlement.

It's the same with the woman and the cologne. A nice guy complex would hear:
"I wish the men I dated groomed themselves and smelled like you do."
And cynically think that the woman is a liar for not dating people who groomed and smelled like they did, and it becomes entitlement when they think they're worth something just because of a quality a woman, in a passing compliment, expressed she longed for. They are caught up on their own perceived rejection - and they think...

She's dating a loser and not dating me, a decent guy/someone with the qualities she said she wants; women are liars.

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posted April 24, 2013 05:31 AM            

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Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Oh and the only reason I brought up personal hygiene is because pixiejane and kerosene implied that some nice guys have poor hygiene and dont take care of themselves.

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posted April 24, 2013 05:31 AM            

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
Yes, that is entitled thinking. Being a nice guy is the bare minimum. Being a nice guy is plain toast where the bad boys are toast with peanut butter and banana. Nice guys are maladjusted with unrealistic expectations and terrible opinions, and that's why no one dates them.

(Also the situation you provided of a girl expecting a relationship after sex is too general; maybe he let her think there would be a relationship, maybe he lied. Entitlement there would be her knowing he just wants sex but that he owes a relationship any ways, which I hardly think happens.)

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posted April 24, 2013 05:46 AM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
What I actually mean is that I have yet to meet someone who is a genuine nice guy who claims women won't date him because he's nice who didn't actually have other compelling reasons why women wouldn't (and the fact that they're not really nice, plenty of actual nice guys don't have a problem finding girlfriends).

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posted April 24, 2013 05:54 AM            

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Have you noticed that for the most part women tend to date nice guys? I have.

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posted April 24, 2013 08:23 AM            

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Originally posted by somethingexcellent:
Yes, that is entitled thinking. Being a nice guy is the bare minimum. Being a nice guy is plain toast where the bad boys are toast with peanut butter and banana.

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My toast comes with Caspian black Beluga caviar. The bad boys can kiss my hiney ho and clean up their f-ing act. There's nothing I cherish more than to take down a jerk azz bad boy mofo. Guys who go around sticking their ying yang and creating babies out of wedlock ought to be taken out to the backyard and b1tch smacked up the wazoo.

posted April 24, 2013 10:40 AM            

Most people around me are in steady, good relationships. The men are generally okay - or at least on the whole, I think that's what people here have been trying to say. Maybe there are parts of the country where this stuff is less common. Anyway, the women who end up with jerks/bad boys/cheaters/etc often end up with them for a reason.

I've had feelings for my share of jerks and such and they had one thing in common: they didn't look like one at first. They weren't serial dating, no drug users (though one loved to joke about it... wouldn't surprise me if he had), and as far as I know I haven't been cheated on, but daaamn they were awful. Why? Because they seemed so nice at first! I generally knew them pretty well, some of them were actually my friends first. One of them actually played into my woes about guys, I cried to him about it and he used it to his advantage to "win me over". Stalked me after we broke up, altered with nasty messages.

I've been on the other end of it as well. Best male friend and I had the biggest crush on him. Dated girl after girl and came to me for "girl advice" whenever things were going bad between him and the girl of the month. It hurt. Man, I can't put it to words how mixed I felt about hanging out with him, but I supported him anyway because he was my friend. When I confessed, he told me he loved me tons as a person, but I just wasn't his type. No taking away from the friendship there, he just wasn't attracted to me. That gave me enough closure. We remained friends for a while after (we ran the same circle, I couldn't really avoid him). I dealt with it. I was happy enough that he took the effort to be a man about it and lay me off easy but still being honest. I would have been good for him. Our mutual friends often joked about us dating. But it just wasn't meant to happen. In the end, he was looking for something in a relationship that I didn't have. Never knew what "that" was, but I trusted him with that it wasn't because of something shallow.

When those girls say they want a good guy but end up going for a jerk, the jerk probably had "that". I totally understand how frustrating it is to not have your feelings reciprocated, especially when you think you could give them what they're looking for, but it's just not that clear-cut in real life. Sometimes, those girls don't even know what they want, even though they say they do. You just have to hope for them that one day they will. They will go to a male friend for emotional comfort because they hope he can give them advice from a man's point of view.

Those bad guys usually attract many girls because they know how to play them. Especially insecure girls - they feel that vibe and lure you in. In my case, like I said, I didn't see it. At all. I even held off the dating for a while because I wasn't 100% sure, and yet they got through me. And when they "had" me, they showed their true colours. By then, it was too late. I was already crazy about them. They were sweet enough in private, which is what kept me going. I kept thinking I just had to be patient, that if I really loved him [yes, the l word], I should accept his flaws. All the clichés in the book. One of them even tried to turn me against my family and girlfriends, which is when I started seeing the red flags. We broke up not much later.

posted April 24, 2013 12:12 PM            

I can relate with much of what you wrote messieri.

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Those bad guys usually attract many girls because they know how to play them. Especially insecure girls - they feel that vibe and lure you in.

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I've noticed that many times, but often, also the female is just extremely nice and a bit naive and unaware of how some people can be, whether it's because she's lived life where she was unaccustomed to those types and not had to deal with too many of those types people or whatever else and is just too sweet to realize what's going on at first. Those are always the worst.

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For a very long time, I kept this stuff to myself because I was embarrassed that I let stuff like that happen to me. Before that, I would roll her eyes at stories of girls being played while "it's so obvious he doesn't give a damn about her!" Then it happened to me. It all changes once you're in that kind of situation.

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