posted March 16, 2021 04:05 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
I think like a lawyer. What you may feel about someone's intentions is not evidence to convict.

You were forcing your advice on AG, whether you knew he lost his mother or not.

---

In determining the "guilt" of AG, you appear to me to be making a case for him being "innocent, due to mitigating circumstances" - rather than first ascertaining if he is or is not "guilty" of behaving in a socially unacceptable manner, then (if "guilty") taking account of the mitigating circumstances when deciding upon the appropriate "sentence"/remedial-action required.

posted March 16, 2021 04:14 AM              

This relates to the presence of a Pluto-Saturn-Sun poleaxe in the LL Forum Natal Chart. ... Respectively located in Sag/1st : Scorpio/11th : Taurus/6th (apex).

posted March 16, 2021 04:36 AM              

I replied to that question at 03:14am on 16th March 2021, and wonder now if your natal chart contains a New Moon ... because, if so, that reply supports my view that you may not be aware of your own passive-aggressive behaviour.

posted March 16, 2021 04:40 AM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Randall:
I think like a lawyer. What you may feel about someone's intentions is not evidence to convict.

You were forcing your advice on AG, whether you knew he lost his mother or not.

---

If a democrat supporter attacked Donald Trump for forcing his unwanted advice/views upon him, would you argue that the democrat was innocent or guilty of attacking DT?

posted March 16, 2021 12:52 PM            

i've been on the other side of ami's passive aggressive comments in the past before, and argued with aquaguy here previously as well (does that mean this particular thread is one? no, but considering her personality it's suspicious at the very least)

i've seen the way he gets coddled while outright attacking people just as well as you have, and the bias is definitely real that's undeniable

i'm not entirely sure why he gets a free pass (difficult childhood doesn't cut it in my view, i've had a very difficult entire life, that **** isn't a pass... neither is loss especially when loss did not make him this way but is used as a smokescreen for any **** behavior) but it's definitely harmful to him in my view

the "humanitarian" nature of certain members of this board is generally hypocritical and detrimental ultimately but 🤷‍♀️ what can you do

hopefully people elsewhere hold him accountable so that he grows at least, a lot of his issues externally would be greatly improved if he worked on himself internally, particularly the rage he clearly needs to deal with

that being said try not to take it personally, on the off chance she's telling the truth then it wasn't personal at all (perhaps him saying it made her curious about the subject in general and people's real experiences, in which case it isn't personal or calling you it, but could still be related) and if it was a passive aggressive attack that says more about her than you

a lot of people are very quick to throw the word "sociopath" out in spite of them being relatively rare, their poor judgment doesn't reflect you

in a certain light perhaps this thread could educate people like aquaguy about what REAL sociopaths are like if people actually discussed the topic

@Ami (in response to thread, giving you the benefit of the doubt that this was genuinely just curiosity, though i do think that's unlikely i'll act on good faith)

i'm relatively sure my ex had a cluster b disorder she always showed signs, but the last few years of our relationship things really boiled over to extremes

she openly lacked empathy (she would tell me she did frequently), saw guilt and remorse as wasted emotions rather than natural reactions to causing harm (while guilt can be a waste if it's carried around for years or misplaced it's certainly not when it's a reaction), she was extremely talented and charming and funny but only with surface level things (she would openly complain to me about being there for others emotionally and would ask me for advice on things to say to people who were venting to her so she could "seem to care"), would call me/ask me to be her "conscience"

i remember once watching these narc videos on youtube with her (we started looking at them years before because of her mother) and her just agreeing with the things this guy was saying about how the world worked and people worked etc, she saw nothing wrong with the narc at all

she's even still doing the narc post break up "hoovering" **** in spite of it being almost 2 years and her initiating the break up (very recently too, 2 days before the new moon being the last contact attempt)

she also started more openly attacking other people post break up, i guess due to less contact with me

she told me she was going to destroy an ex coworker once (i tried to just not be involved, i figured she was just talking **** because they were "best friends" and she "loved her" so i assumed it was a temporary anger because she'd do that with this woman, hate her then love her) and tried to pin drugs discovered in the bathroom of the workplace on the woman (nevermind that this woman was in the middle of a divorce and had 3 kids and was already struggling financially, like no regard for the kids at all)

her whole immediate family (except her father, i don't think things would have escalated the same had he been alive) would do things like that to each other, getting each other fired from jobs, attacking each other's personal lives, getting each other arrested etc

very physically violent as well, extremely manipulative, would lie to others about me for sympathy and say i was doing **** to her that she was actually doing to me etc

those sorts of people are very very dangerous and there's really no way to maintain many kinds of relationships with them because it can leak out into all areas of their lives

posted March 16, 2021 01:45 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Graham:
@ Dumuzi ... Thank you for the pep talk ... It helps, and is much appreciated by me.

---

anytime, i like you graham for whatever that's worth, and i think you just call **** like you see it and can be blunt

people can't always handle those traits, but they're not bad in my view, but they can make it difficult in online spaces

with lindaland we're all brought here by a very broad topic so there's bound to be clashes, it's unfortunate that bias from mods shows up but i think that's always unavoidable in spaces to some degree

posted March 16, 2021 07:09 PM            

As far as Ami goes, no one can know her intentions for starting this thread. To try to do so is an exercise in futility. She denies it. There isn't even any circumstantial evidence to the contrary. Had she mentioned Graham by name, that would be a different matter. As things stand, some of you don't like AG or Ami. That's fine. There are people I don't like here either. We all have to get along, move along, or ignore those we don't like.

Graham, what do you think is in your chart that makes you unable to let something like this go? Or to want force your advice on others when it is not desired? What are you hoping to accomplish at this point over the situation? You claim Ami passively aggressively called you a sociopath. She denies it. What more is there to discover or uncover about it? In America, we have a presumption of innocence.

posted March 16, 2021 07:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by teasel:
Yes, my mother was engaged to one. If you were inferring that someone here is a sociopath, you were way off.

Who is the public figure?

---

posted March 16, 2021 07:58 PM            

you know, just saying, aquaguy just seems to have that sort of personality and a bad thing happening more recently is his excuse for it

the thing is when someone is just sort of like that, while grief can exacerbate it that doesn't make it the root cause

it's possible to be both empathetic and call someone on their **** , you can feel for someone without just turning a blind eye to their poor behavior

if one of the mods even said something like "i know you're going through a lot but you can't treat people the way you're treating graham maybe take a few minutes to collect yourself" then that would've been both empathetic and acknowledging what went on

the reality is he attacked graham first (i looked at the threads mentioned) and went very hard, and what he wasn't forgiving of graham for was an incident months ago where he was going on elliot rodger tier rants about women and attacking people for disagreeing with him

that incident graham also wasn't ****** towards him, just not tolerant of ******** (aquaguy had already attacked several others at the point graham said anything at all, actually i personally mentioned that thread to you in global unity a while back when voix and i had a disagreement in which she was not being objective)

empathy does not equal tolerating ******** and tantrums

what i see of aquaguy is he throws a tantrum which gets ignored and it often looks like a case of "loudest most emotional person must be right" which is not only unfair, but not the case

there's definitely a huge difference between empathy and coddling, you don't have to give someone a free pass every time they behave a certain way because something bad happened to them and at a certain point enough is enough

it's completely unempathetic towards graham to allow someone else to openly attack him and be vicious about it and call that acting out of empathy. who's to say what's going on in graham's life? or any of our lives for that matter, there is always behind the scenes **** and not everyone lays their **** out to air. it seems very unacceptable to me for someone to be able to attack others and have it be acceptable because of their difficulties simply because they're loud about them while simultaneously overlooking what might be in the other person's life (or even acknowledging that they may have difficult **** as well)

i know i personally having had roughly 30+ consecutive years of abuse in my life (physical, emotional/mental, and sexual and i'm only 34) am very sensitive to and definitely triggered by when i think someone may be implying i'm the same sort of person that abused me by throwing words like that around, it deeply ***** with my head (voix can attest to this fact i've apologized to her for mistaking her words towards me as something of that nature in the past, because i was instantly reactive) who's to say graham isn't similar? i don't know him like that, do you?

it can cause a lot of damage to another person and not everyone is capable of being vocal about that

i'm not saying ban aquaguy or refuse to acknowledge his grief, but i am saying that grief shouldn't be used as an excuse to be abusive towards others and have that be backed by people who want to be empathetic

sure people who are hurting can hurt people, it happens, and we're all guilty of hurting another person at some point but when we ok that and we don't both acknowledge that grief and stand up for what's right (which is saying that wasn't acceptable to do) we're adding to the problem

it isn't empathetic to allow someone free reign to just spiral, and i see a lot of aquaguy spiraling while people watch and tell him it's ok, and that's honestly really bad and sad to witness

he's too old to be treated with kid gloves, and sure we all need kid gloves sometimes but not when we're being abusive, then we need a wake up call which can be given kindly

mods are supposed to be impartial and people's personal lives shouldn't come into play, only the situation at hand

in that situation graham just responded in a thread with what he thought may be an issue (though it's funny that particular thread aquaguy made reminded me of a conversation i had on a couch in the corner of a party once with my brother's ex gf, we were laughing our ***** off watching all these people yell over each other like all they wanted to do was make noise at each other rather than talk , people really can be like that and for some reason people like that often try to make people feel bad about being quiet as if that's problematic which is bizarre as **** in my view... so i actually got, and agreed with to some degree, his initial point) and aquaguy went off on him

it's a very normal response for a person to double down on what they've said when attacked, just a normal reaction and i don't think graham should be chastised for behaving in a very human manner once attacked

if he's still upset by what happened then perhaps he has his own personal reasons for it and extending empathy towards him is just as necessary

empathy should either be extended to all parties or none by a mod

edit: btw randall i'm not saying you specifically turned a blind eye i'm saying the mods speaking in those threads who said nothing to aquaguy were, and it's something i've personally seen on more than one occasion when it comes to him

posted March 16, 2021 08:01 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by teasel:
I’m still curious about the public figure.

---

i imagine it might not be for the best to openly state their name

for many reasons i don't think it would be good both for that individual's sake and for the person naming them

posted March 17, 2021 05:20 AM              

quote:

---

No, I am definitely not arguing for AG's innocence. And I'm also not excusing AG's behaviour. ... I know how much AG was in the wrong for losing his temper. However, at the same time, I can empathize with his state of mind when he did so.

---

From the outset ...THAT was all you ever needed to write, in order to demonstrate both impartiality with regard to the incident and your (understandable + acceptable) empathy for AG.

Instead though, you have consistently chosen to play the role of defence lawyer for AG. ... And, THAT is an abuse of your position of power on the forum - as its owner (Pluto), manager (Saturn) and "guiding light" (Sun). ... Hence, you wielded the natal forum's poleaxe unjustly - but hey, you are the one who is studying law (and the importance of justice).

quote:

---

Graham ... What are you hoping to accomplish at this point over the situation? You claim Ami passively aggressively called you a sociopath. She denies it. What more is there to discover or uncover about it? In America, we have a presumption of innocence.

Timing actually proves nothing. AG mentioned sociopathy. Amy started a thread. There is a concept in law called intent. Without it, guilt for certain crimes do not exist. There is also a concept known as mens rea. Without giving a dissertation on it, it is up to the prosecution to prove. It's a tough hurdle.

---

quote:

---

Graham, what do you think is in your chart that makes you unable to let something like this go? Or to want force your advice on others when it is not desired?

---

Basically though, my natal chart has Uranus-on-MC (in Gemini/9th) opposite Jupiter-on-IC (in Capricorn/4th) AND Mercury in Scorpio/2nd square Pluto/11th. ... This close-orbed opposition and square are connected by close-orbed semisquares and sesquisquares - and all of those 8th harmonic aspects impel me to (instinctively/habitually) "see things/issues/problems that others do not, and to persist in pursuing them beyond the point at which others consider to be reasonable/'rational'."

However ... the question you are asking can only be answered meaningfully in the light of events which have manifested in my life when this 8th harmonic aspect configuration has been activated by progressions and transits.

Nevertheless, you may get some idea of those by me stating here that :-

AG is not the dentist who abused me at the age of 8, after anaesthetising me with gas ... Ami Anne is not the dental nurse that participated with him in doing so ... and Randall is not the mother who refused to pursue my story/'drama' because "it will cause problems for the family".

However ... what all six of those people have in common is that they abused their positions of trust. ... And it is THAT which is causing my "irrational anger with, and refusal to let go of" the AG-Graham interaction and the inappropriate handling of it by the forum owner and two moderators involved.

Moreover, what the unacceptable psyche-damaging behaviour of AG and the dentist have in common is that it continued until the authorities took action to stop it. ... And, in the case of the dentist, that resulted in other children being abused for another 4 years before he was arrested by the police/found guilty by a jury/sentenced by a judge.

My mother wrongly persuaded me to "not speak out, because it will destroy what we (the family) have" ... And, since then, no-one has been able to stop me from speaking out whenever I perceive it as being "the right thing to do".

posted March 17, 2021 05:35 AM              

What happened between AG and myself on this SPITR board is just an example of unacceptable behaviour by a member, and wholly inappropriate behaviour by a moderator. ... My concern/issue is with the bias displayed throughout this incident by the forum owner and a SPITR board moderator in acknowledging and dealing APPROPRIATELY with that unacceptable behaviour.

posted March 17, 2021 07:39 AM            

@Graham

I just want to say that I understand the hell it sets you up for when you disclose abuse and are not helped. I told my grandmother at age 9 that I had been being abused by my stepfather since age 4 and she told me not to tell anyone else. He of course carried on abusing me until I told again at age 13, this time to another 13 year old (my best friend) who had the props that my grandmother did not, and told her mother who called my mother.

It took me until my Saturn Return to forgive my grandmother and it took her until then to 'sort of' apologise (she made some excuses - probably fabrications she had created to make peace with her conscience, but because of her age, I chose to overlook them).

I'm not trying to overshadow your horrific experience in any way, quite the opposite. I wanted you to know that I understand. And that the challenges this brings with authority, trust and forgiveness can be settled. But the way will of course be different for all of us. There was a time when I thought I would always be a prisoner or product of my past, and death seemed more pleasant than a lifetime of that. But I did find ways. I am still a work in progress, but I was able to forgive and free myself from a lot of pain and resentment.

I am not suggesting that forgiveness is what you should do, you are the only one who knows the best way to transmute your experiences. I just wanted you to know that it is not a given to be bound by these things indefinitely.

posted March 17, 2021 08:37 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Graham:
@ Dumuzi ... Thank you for your 07:58pm post here on March 16, 2021 07:58 PM - which expresses my own perception more objectively than I have been able to.

What happened between AG and myself on this SPITR board is just an example of unacceptable behaviour by a member, and wholly inappropriate behaviour by a moderator. ... My concern/issue is with the bias displayed throughout this incident by the forum owner and a SPITR board moderator in acknowledging and dealing [b]APPROPRIATELY with that unacceptable behaviour.

[/B]

---

you're welcome, i completely agree because i've seen it as well and it's definitely something that goes way too far, he gets exceptionally vicious and then anyone who responds to that is considered in the wrong

it basically is being told that responding to a vicious attack without even bringing the same level of heat back to him is wrong, but he can act out however much he wants, namecall, be abusive etc and because as he's saying it he's going "my mother died" it's suddenly "ok" (maybe he needs someone else to turn it into a ******* contest over who's been through more **** to shut him up idk or at least mods would be torn between who they should be showing empathy to)

on one hand i suppose maybe it's a compliment to not be treated as if you're mentally deficient and can't be held responsible for your actions

on the other it's a real problem because his abuse towards others can cause real emotions in them and condoning it can make those wounds worse

just so you know i can really empathize with the "dont tell anyone" stuff, for a long time i couldn't talk about anything that happened to me at all because i was so conditioned not to

as a matter of fact there was an incident in 4th grade where i got in trouble for it in school, a teacher had prodded me about why i didn't seem ok, loudly in front of the class when i showed up late

i had spent my whole life prior to that being told that if i said anything it would only make things worse for me because i'd get taken away and treated even worse (this was drilled into my head all different ways. first it was my parents would do where they'd make a fake phone call and tell me that i was going to be taken away if i didnt do something they wanted, i was little then like 3 or 4, i didn't believe them long. they'd make me sit in the hallway or by the window and tell me what the car would look like and how much worse it'd be. how i wasn't being abused because they didn't hit me with things, but they were the same people who did **** like hold me down and hit me to put hot sauce in my mouth and then wash my mouth out with soap for saying "damn" and laughed about it while they did it. they really openly enjoyed some of the abuse. my mother when i was an adult would laugh to me about how she'd grab me by the hair to hit me and how convenient that was. getting off track, but later as i realized they were never calling anyone it changed to them just telling me about group homes and foster care etc) and also that it was just wrong to tell other people what went on inside of your family life (a betrayal that could even be backed biblically twisted hard enough "honour thy father and mother" i was raised catholic) naturally i didn't tell my teacher and she wouldn't let it go in front of the class and i ended up yelling at her to leave me alone and got sent into the hallway.

this was after a morning of being hit and physically dragged to school in spite of really not feeling ok (stomach issues which i still have to this day) because i didn't have a fever. ironically my own mother has crohn's disease and terrible memories of her mother doing the same to her when she was a kid and wasn't feeling ok, digestive disorders run on both sides of my family. so i was feeling physically ill and had just been hit and screamed all morning and got in trouble for not being capable of communicating that and humiliated by being put on the spot in front of the class too.

this is all tip of the iceberg **** for me, but my point is i understand being silenced when it comes to abuse, and i can't fault you for taking what you went through and turning it into a habit to be open and adamant when you see an issue

that being said idk if in your heart you've ever forgiven your mother, but that mentality seems to spring from conditioning caused by abuse and it sounds like maybe she had some of her own

it doesn't excuse her at all, but maybe it'll help you in the long run to see it with those eyes

i'm sorry that happened to you btw, i know what it's like to carry heavy **** like that around and i know how it doesn't ever just end right in that moment it happens

posted March 17, 2021 09:08 AM            

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posted March 17, 2021 09:52 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Where is the asteroid sado in your chart. What is the degree and sign and aspects

---

Huh? Why would an asteroid that some believe pertains to sadism be relevant here?

And who are you asking?

posted March 17, 2021 10:00 AM            

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posted March 17, 2021 10:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I am asking Dumzi

---

i usually use 2 degrees, but i'm pretty sure i've seen you use 3 so i guess conjunct saturn

in the past we've spoken about my nessus conjunct sun (when i've stated i'm not an abuser, because well i'm not but i do have very intimate knowledge of abuse. i try to be very mindful of where i hurt others if it happens and learn from any mistakes, the idea of continuing that cycle myself is terrifying), kaali is there too along with rudra and some others i can't think of off the top of my head right now

if you'd like to look at things yourself 8/23/1986 10:23 am brooklyn ny (if not i'm fine with looking up things you ask and posting them)

i'm bad with asteroids so what would you consider it being on saturn?

posted March 17, 2021 10:21 AM            

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posted March 17, 2021 10:27 AM            

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posted March 17, 2021 10:31 AM            

Here is my list
http://mychristianpsychic.com/journal/the-asteroids-i-use/

Sedna is extreme betrayal by men. Aphophis is extreme chaos. The fixed star Algol can cause the kinds of things you describe, too.

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posted March 17, 2021 10:45 AM            

i imagine sedna may not be prominent, i've been abused by men mostly my dad (not sexually) but it's been more like one time occurrences when it's been men aside from him

like guys groping me in the street, and one more recent rape (when pluto and saturn were on my ic) and so on some stuff i'm unsure about from early childhood that doesn't really make sense (knowing what a bj and penetration were by like 3 or 4, hymen scarring) but i can't make any calls on that because i dont know or remember

for longterm/more frequent abuse that's been mostly from women in my experience (all kinds of abuse) i'm bi so my really violent ex who tried to kill me and all kinds of **** and is still stalking me is a woman (she actually got in touch 2 days before the new moon on an email i didnt realize i hadnt blocked her from, i saw it last friday after being silent since august so i thought it was over but i guess not)

anyway i'll check out your list in a minute thank you for the link

i hate when good astrology sites get taken down, i don't think algol does anything in my chart (unless an asteroid is on it i guess)

i tend towards using vedic ideas/placements more so asteroids just sort of overwhelm me

posted March 17, 2021 10:57 AM            

I have modified my view on Nessus. Nessus conj the Sun is abuse by the father.

However, Nessus can be good because it can give the native a strength to stand up for himself when people hurt him.

Dejanira lies there and takes it but Nessus fights and this is better!

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