posted September 24, 2012 12:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by geea:
wich asteroids should I search for?

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posted September 24, 2012 12:50 PM            

The second would be Dejanira conj the Child asteroid.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted September 24, 2012 02:45 PM            

Another recent thread by AmiAnne, with some replies about the Dejanira/ Child/ Moon connections:

"I want to do a study"
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum28/HTML/001343.html

A recent thread in 2.0. Includes some additional natal aspects to look at, including more asteroid stuff; as well as some synastry examples between victim and abuser, of some people who responded:

“Signs of childhood sex abuse”
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/215407.html

AmiAnne also gives some words about Nessus and Dejanira here:

“Ami Anne – Nessus and Dejanira” http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/207834.html

Nessus is about selfish use of power, with no concern for the other. Dejanira was his mythic victim—hence, Ami’s advice to look at her placement, regarding where one is a victim in life. Iq has done a lot of work looking at Nessus, and sees it strongly in the chart of psychopaths. Of course, many of us have active Nessus but are understanding of the capacity for abusing one's power, but not choosing that dark expression, or even work to expose the dark expression in others, according to Iq.

Melanie Reinhart on Nessus:

(http://www.melaniereinhart.com/melanie/astrologyarticles/chiron-and-centaurs.php)

Nessus - the buck stops here.

posted September 24, 2012 03:09 PM            

She does not have strong Dejanira with Moon or Child, though there is a Semisextile.

Of the items we've mentioned, she has...

Moon CONJ Child (<4) in 8th house
Jupiter CONJ Dejanira (<3) in 7th
Moon Semisextile Dejanira (just past 1 degree)
Nessus SQ Moon (<1)
Nessus TRI Dejanira (<2)

And interestingly, Gabby mentioned Sedna as the goddess of victims. She has Sedna CONJ MC (<3)

IDK, along with that Jupiter CONJ Dejanira... A victim in a big way? (though the orbs are kind of wide?)

She has been in counseling off and on for years, dealing with her past. She has committed herself to mental hospitals for periods of time as well, when she felt really badly. She has been on various meds for years, though she was pretty much off of them, when we were together.

As we speak, she is going through another bout with these issues. She is in her late 30s. ...It is distressing to me to feel so helpless to help her. Just this weekend she abruptly checked herself into the hospital again, after having just spent a week in there.

Ugh... I just thought to check her transits, and wow:

Transiting Nessus CONJ Natal Dejanira

As well, since her natal Dejanira and Nessus are trine, T. Nessus TRI N. Nessus

T. Chiron CONJ N. Mercury in 8th (Merc is CONJ Sun. Sun and Moon--Pisces--are in 8th as well)

T. Pluto SQ N. Pluto
T. Uranus OPP N. Pluto

Regarding her natal Nessus...I mentioned elsewhere that on some level, she feels she does understand the concept of victimizing others...not that her consciousness is at all at such a level. We've discussed past lives, and she does feel she probably took advantage of her own power in a sexual way, sometime in her past.

posted September 24, 2012 03:32 PM            

She really is a very generous, sincere person. She enjoys helping others and being of service. That is some of what I admire about her.

IDK...So much watery stuff going on in that 8th house of hers, and that deeper Pisces sensitivity to things...against her outgoing Leo Ascendant.

posted September 24, 2012 04:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jovian:
Thanks, Gabby. ...That's the thing. I don't know that it is conscious for her. She is not one that wears her past abuse like a badge, or as a way to get perpetual sympathy and not grow in her life. She recently changed therapists, as I think she wanted to go deeper into dealing with more buried issues, as she felt the current therapist wasn't pushing her hard enough to do that. ...Childhood abuse I think always has deeper repercussions than we can consciously imagine. Layers to deal with!

She really is a very generous, sincere person. She enjoys helping others and being of service. That is some of what I admire about her.

IDK...So much watery stuff going on in that 8th house of hers, and that deeper Pisces sensitivity to things...against her outgoing Leo Ascendant.

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I'm so glad your ex wants to overcome!!
I bet she'll be changing careers soon!

Has she looked into hypnosis? I started studying it after it helped me find some peace and now finishing up the school to be hypnotherapist, and practice in my friends office. It really is amazing esp when you layer it with other things, like we talked about the brainwaves and subliminals! But you defnitely need an intelligent person doing the hypnosis, theres a huge difference in results depending on how perceptive the doctor is and their understanding of how the mind works.

posted September 24, 2012 04:44 PM            

Hmm... In some ways, I admire that she is "okay" with simply availing herself of mental health services, without feeling embarrassed. "I'm sick and I need help." In some ways, isn't that a positive expression of being a "victim?"

She seems determined to get to the bottom of things. She has learned a lot about herself through her therapy through the years.

I don't know--It really disturbs me when this happens...but it's like she takes it in stride --She's used to being a victim of her mental health issues?

...She seems unable to deal, often. Ami has I think expressed it...in a sense of the world seeming scary and too much to take. Though I think she recently shared this in one of our unaspected moon threads, I wonder if it is related to the victim themes of Dejanira...or even Sedna, as you mention. ...Watery moon/ moon in water house? What else?

posted September 24, 2012 05:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Jovian:
Thanks for your kind concern, Gabby. I know--I love the idea of hypnosis. As you say, the level of understanding of the practitioner is a big part of it, as with mental health practitioners, of course. I didn't know you were studying this. ...We'll have to talk about it in our other thread!

Hmm... In some ways, I admire that she is "okay" with simply availing herself of mental health services, without feeling embarrassed. "I'm sick and I need help." In some ways, isn't that a positive expression of being a "victim?"

She seems determined to get to the bottom of things. She has learned a lot about herself through her therapy through the years.

I don't know--It really disturbs me when this happens...but it's like she takes it in stride --She's used to being a victim of her mental health issues?

...She seems unable to deal, often. Ami has I think expressed it...in a sense of the world seeming scary and too much to take. Though I think she recently shared this in one of our unaspected moon threads, I wonder if it is related to the victim themes of Dejanira...or even Sedna, as you mention. ...Watery moon/ moon in water house? What else?

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You should read the story of Sedna, it sound like shes at the 1st level of Sedna. I have a thread i just posted to Ami, and i copied the story and meaning behind Sedna, its a very sad but powerful story, as sedna became immortal and given honors due to all she'd been through but never lost her loving nature, she never became hard!
Sound like she's in the 1st stages, but one thing i love about Sedna is whoever she touches and they prove they want to love, not hurt due to there pain, they say she will impart to them the universal compassion. But these ones are asked to spread that compassion to others in return. So, continue moving forward and the universe will repay you for all the pain you've endured...
I really love her story, so sad, but so inspiring to help us stay vulnerable/open to love!

posted September 25, 2012 05:02 PM            

I went through years of abuse as a child and young adult. As far as my chart goes, I have Nessus conjunct my Sun and Venus (which also squares Pluto/Karma) and I can assure you I'm not a psychopath nor am I concerned with having control over others. I'm actually a psychotherapist and try to help those who have gone through the same things that I did. Personally, I see Nessus in my chart as me being my own worst enemy, now that I am an adult. As a child it likely signified something else.

I do have dejanira conjunct child in the 5th house, and Sedna conjunct Chiron, as well as Moon square Mars.

For Jovian, has your ex-gf ever looked in to EMDR? Try googling it to see if it might perhaps be of use to her

posted September 25, 2012 06:00 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sorcha:
I actually did a very small and not very scientific astro 'study' of people who have PTSD and pretty much all of the charts contained either a natal and/or transiting Moon in hard aspect to Mars. I didn't take it as far as asteroids. Most of the PTSD-related trauma was in connection to abuse though.

I went through years of abuse as a child and young adult. As far as my chart goes, I have Nessus conjunct my Sun and Venus (which also squares Pluto/Karma) and I can assure you I'm not a psychopath nor am I concerned with having control over others. I'm actually a psychotherapist and try to help those who have gone through the same things that I did. Personally, I see Nessus in my chart as me being my own worst enemy, now that I am an adult. As a child it likely signified something else.

I do have dejanira conjunct child in the 5th house, and Sedna conjunct Chiron, as well as Moon square Mars.

For Jovian, has your ex-gf ever looked in to EMDR? Try googling it to see if it might perhaps be of use to her

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Interesting. I have PTSD from my childhood--not diagnosed unless you count my own

I have moon conj Mars but it is 9 degrees so I don't think it would count. Do you? Thanks for the great info.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted September 25, 2012 06:02 PM            

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted September 25, 2012 06:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sorcha:
I actually did a very small and not very scientific astro 'study' of people who have PTSD and pretty much all of the charts contained either a natal and/or transiting Moon in hard aspect to Mars. I didn't take it as far as asteroids. Most of the PTSD-related trauma was in connection to abuse though.

I went through years of abuse as a child and young adult. As far as my chart goes, I have Nessus conjunct my Sun and Venus (which also squares Pluto/Karma) and I can assure you I'm not a psychopath nor am I concerned with having control over others. I'm actually a psychotherapist and try to help those who have gone through the same things that I did. Personally, I see Nessus in my chart as me being my own worst enemy, now that I am an adult. As a child it likely signified something else.

I do have dejanira conjunct child in the 5th house, and Sedna conjunct Chiron, as well as Moon square Mars.

For Jovian, has your ex-gf ever looked in to EMDR? Try googling it to see if it might perhaps be of use to her

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posted September 25, 2012 06:28 PM            

http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum24/HTML/215407-2.html

quote:

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I am very sad reading this thread. It is like hearing myself talk..

I have blocked it too. I always knew it happened, but I have nothing concrete to base it on. It has recently surfaced my consciousness (it is not the first time, but it is the last). I had nightmares about it too, and very powerful, violent reactions to things people would do or say that triggered the memory even though I wasn't aware what memory was that about. I had a lot of symptoms too, the loudest was depression and being suicidal last fall (pills). I started therapy and it brought it to the surface, but very slowly and I resisted the process until I couldn't deny it anymore. I couldn't even bring myself to tell my therapist because I thought she wouldn't believe me (my mother didn't, though she knew or suspected, but that would have ruined her fantasy of the perfect little family that we never were..). I am in a lot of pain right now, I have a lot of boiling anger I do not know how to deal with and for the first time I feel that I cannot contain it any longer, which is weird because I was excellent at having self-control. My father semi-confirmed the abuse and life since then has been a wild emotional rollercoaster. I am yearning for peace or some sort of release but I cannot find any. Almost relapsed into depression and started taking meds again because I couldn't function at my job. It is hard. Probably the hardest thing I had to do my whole life.

I talked about it quite in detail in Sweet Peas and I posted my chart, my father's chart and the synastry in here: http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum27/HTML/000794-2.html

I don't have Pisces Moon, but I have an exact Moon-Neptune conjunction, which makes me a lot like a Pisces Mooner, the description fits very much. I have a lot of signs of sexual abuse in my chart, or just abuse in general. In a rough sense, they would be:

-exact Mars-Pluto opposition which in equal houses is on 4th/10th axis (in Placidus is 3rd/9th). Pluto rules my 10th house, which could be the father.

This particular article about Mars-Pluto and child abuse is very enlightening, though not for the faint hearted, so consider yourself warned. It is tough to swallow by sensitive souls.
http://theastrologyplace.blogspot.ro/2011/09/astrology-of-child-abuse-and-murder.html

-Saturn which some say is the father is also part of that opposition, conjunct Pluto and opposite Mars

-so is asteroid Child, even though further apart (the Saturn-Child opposition is valid, though)

-Mercury, ruler of my 5th and 8th houses (both sex houses), conjuncts Mars and is also opposite Pluto

-squaring this opposition and turning it into a Grand Cross are Lilith, Lucifer and Nessus. Lilith I think is of special importance, because when I got older, I fought for my safety, rebelling against my abusers.

-Dejanira is exactly conjunct Mercury, ruler of both sex houses

-I have Chiron in the 4th house, which can mean childhood trauma that never heals.. it is also sitting on Algol, which is a very unfortunate fixed star. Also widely conjuncts Venus, which also rules the IC (childhood).

-Venus, MC/IC axis are on the Martial nodes, which have been linked with rape and sexual abuse. Note the links to the parental houses.

Talking about it helps. Keep talking, in here or some place else but do not stop. Talking helped prevent me from slipping back into denial and depression and though it is heartbreaking in the beginning, it gets a little better. Know it was not your fault and though it feels that you will never be whole again, you are perfect as you are and a beautiful, brave soul. [/b]

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...Her original thread wherein she shares her feelings as she acknowledges her past is very honest, and I think helpful camaraderie and understanding for others going through similar healing.

posted September 25, 2012 06:58 PM            

Re: Nessus, yes, obviously I offered a simple keyword blurb. Perhaps it wasn't too helpful. Yet, it does indicate something about the darker side of human nature, right? Here it is, prominent in the charts of abusers and victims, in which perhaps it also signifies drawing abuse to oneself, in some way? I don't know--I have not researched as others have. This is just what I've gathered, reading this site. I'd LOVE it if others could offer more examples.

As I attempted to include, prominent Nessus could also suggest having an understanding of such darkness--and possibly being engaged in helping others to grasp it, like yourself. Obviously, the levels of evolution of those of us participating on this board are not as an abuser.

posted September 25, 2012 07:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by geea:
thank you all
i just checked on astro ephemeris: nessus is at 9 degrees libra, dejanera at 6 degrees aquarius, child 12 degrees aquarius, NN 4 degrees aquarius. And the moon at 16 degrees leo.
If it didn't happen in the family, do I still look at moon aspects?

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Maybe Ami or someone can offer suggestions to Geea's question?

But I find it quite interesting, Geea, that you share the Nessus-Dejanira TRINE with my Ex-GF.

And that Child-Moon opposition, though at 4 degrees, is similar to her Child-Moon Conj of 4 degrees.

posted September 25, 2012 07:52 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by geea:
do i still have to look at the moon if the abuse didn't happen in the family? do i really need to have been abused sexually by a parent to get some info in here? the links were useful and i thank you, but in my case they are not useful enough because is not like in those discussed in the threads.
I don't have any info on the abusers, i can't make a synastry, i only have my chart.
I'm not being mean or anything but I don't get it what kind of forum is this where you help only between yourselves and not to mention those who really have some knowledge barelly say something.

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I don't understand your question. We are all volunteers, geea. We do this out of love for Astrology and LL.

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted September 25, 2012 08:04 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by geea:
do i still have to look at the moon if the abuse didn't happen in the family? do i really need to have been abused sexually by a parent to get some info in here? the links were useful and i thank you, but in my case they are not useful enough because is not like in those discussed in the threads.
I don't have any info on the abusers, i can't make a synastry, i only have my chart.
I'm not being mean or anything but I don't get it what kind of forum is this where you help only between yourselves and not to mention those who really have some knowledge barelly say something.

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Geea,

I'm sorry if you felt we were not being helpful. You had asked specifically about what asteroids were connected to sexual abuse in the natal. Unfortunately, asteroids have not been as well studied as the planets so there is some guesswork involved. There is a lot of great information here about certain asteroids as well as planetary aspects and some good links to follow as well.

I believe most of the responses here were in regards to the asteroids which you might find useful in terms of looking at (your?) natal chart in order to see if there are any similar connections to the ones which have been listed.

Perhaps you could post your chart with the following asteroids included:

Dejanira: 157
Child: 4580
Nessus: 7066

As for the Moon being relevant in terms of abuse by a family member or not, it can really depend. Sometimes it might show up as Saturn or Pluto, but since the Moon is our emotional self as well as our subconscious self, it usually has some hard aspects associated with it when it comes to abuse. It could also be Sun but in the charts I've seen, it's more likely to be Moon. Again, this is from my own research and is by no means conclusive.

posted September 25, 2012 08:06 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Sorcha
You have Deja conj Child. I do, too. Did you see my unofficial,of course, studies on abuse and Deja conj Moon( the worst) and Deja conj Child( second)
What do you think?

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Ami, I think I might have seen your thread on Dejanira a while back but I don;t recall all the specifics. Maybe you can post a link, which might also be helpful for Geea (unless you already did and I missed it).

posted September 25, 2012 08:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:
Hi Sorcha. Thanks for the advice. ...Yes, I have heard of EMDR. It is quite intriguing, though I have never experienced it. I don't know if she's tried it. Up until now, she has gotten a lot out of DBT over the years, to evolve and mature her responses, etc.

Re: Nessus, yes, obviously I offered a simple keyword blurb. Perhaps it wasn't too helpful. Yet, it does indicate something about the darker side of human nature, right? Here it is, prominent in the charts of abusers and victims, in which perhaps it also signifies drawing abuse to oneself, in some way? I don't know--I have not researched as others have. This is just what I've gathered, reading this site. I'd LOVE it if others could offer more examples.

As I attempted to include, prominent Nessus could also suggest having an understanding of such darkness--and possibly being engaged in helping others to grasp it, like yourself. Obviously, the levels of evolution of those of us participating on this board are not as an abuser.

...And I'm interested why you think Nessus is your own worst enemy.

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I think my eyes were drawn to a quote by IQ (correct me if I'm wrong) which said something about Nessus being associated with psychopathy. I would agree with what you wrote above ^^^^ and suggest that it is indeed a dark energy but how we deal with the energy, like all parts of our chart, is up to us.

As for why I feel that it makes me my own worst enemy...one day I was sitting and looking at my chart and had included Nessus and there it was, smack in between my Sun at 1'58 Cancer and Venus at 3'34 Cancer - at 3'02 Cancer. I have this conjunction square my Pluto/Karma conjunction and I have always known that I have some really heavy karma to work through in this lifetime, especially seeing as Pl/Kar are in Libra. Suddenly I saw Nessus as being my own worst enemy since it is connected to my ego and the way I both love and feel (or don't feel) loved. It is indeed a dark energy and having PTSD, I can go through some pretty dark times every so often. Also, having seen and experienced some very dark parts of life and people many times over, I have come to understand that energy very well. So since it is a part of of my ego (Sun) and way of relating and receiving (Venus) in my 2nd house (values, self-esteem) it is intrinsically connected with/to me and so what I do with it is really important. When I ignore it or let it take over, I suffer through PTSD stuff. When I embrace it and use it positively then I help people (and myself).

posted September 25, 2012 09:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jovian:
Maybe Ami or someone can offer suggestions to Geea's question?

But I find it quite interesting, Geea, that you share the Nessus-Dejanira TRINE with my Ex-GF.

And that Child-Moon opposition, though at 4 degrees, is similar to her Child-Moon Conj of 4 degrees.

Dejanira CONJ your N Node. Again--destined to experience being a victim in this lifetime? ...Just an idea from an amateur, probably awkwardly phrased!

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really? so you say that being a "victim" will manifest through other sorts of abuse?
-as for the moon, the reason it confuses me here is because it already has squares from pluto and who knows how many asteroids( i don't remember them all)
and i didn't say i mind amateur opinion,lol, i'm an amateur too and i post to astro 2.0

@ami,my questions were as simple as they could be.The second can be answered with yes or no. I didn't asked for anyone to make me any sophisticated reading. For me it was important even if I don't always write what i discover. I'm not trolling or opening threads on such delicate subjects just because i have nothing better to do.

@sorcha as i said, i try to find info to solve it by myself.
i learned about these asteroids i didn't know before, and I made some connections, so the links Were useful.