posted July 23, 2014 09:52 AM            

If not obsessive I also think that the energy of squares, while at first representing obstacles and a burning focus, might be resolved in sudden ways. While a trine is about a smooth development, the square might seem to stand still for a long time and then the tension bursts out in a sudden explosion. Like the develompement happens in quantum leaps and sudden bursts of activity, instead of smooth ongoing movement.

Just thinking though.

I certainly can see that in my 4th harmonic squares. Also Mercury-Saturn, obsessing about finding a structure for thoughts? Definitely my thing.

However Hamblin also writes that often or occasionally in squares within the 4th harmonic, one planet is externalized and projected outwards, and seen as the enemy coming to ruin one`s life.

Of course this projection has to be taken back before anything can be resolved.

In my case

Moon - Neptune.
It`s not me, it`s you who is so elusive and will never let your feelings show. And if you donīt, I won`t do either.

No. It is really MY issue. lol

Not sure about the Pluto-Uranus-Juno. Either projecting onto others that they are so fanatical about comitment, so creepy stalkerish (yes attracted some stalkers in my day, but actually I did so I think cause I was so aloof, it drove them crazy).
But when someone else is aloof and detached, I am going into full Pluto compulsion mode.

Secret to this one is, that it is both part of me. Actually My Juno is parallel my Moon and both are parallel my Uranus and contraparallel my Pluto, so yes this IS an issue.

And it is a heriditary one, as I am reflecting my parents, who both have an Uranus-Pluto-mix in terms of their Sun, Moon, Venus, ASC in their charts.

how to resolve it?
Suggestions please?

posted July 23, 2014 09:54 AM            

That is actually one explanation why aspects with different orbs can feel so different, as they are picking up higher harmonics.

posted July 23, 2014 09:59 AM            

The trine, sextile, (harmonics based on the number 3 in some way) are more like conditions. They are harmonious, soft, nice, a cushion, but they donīt MAKE anything happen.
(exception being if they result in amidpoint pattern, like the Grand trine or Yod does).

posted July 23, 2014 10:05 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
The 7 degree trine is not a trine, but a 16th harmonic aspect.

That is actually one explanation why aspects with different orbs can feel so different, as they are picking up higher harmonics.

---

It is also a 16th harmonic aspect, on the subtle level of harmonics, still, I definitely feel this as a trine and out of my close relationships (romantic or otherwise), they complete this trine with an Aries planet.

But let's say it is 16th harmonics (which it isn't, I can assure you, in my case) - it won't be a problem if it were 16th harmonics, after all, it doesn't matter, however I'm not sure it can be felt so strong - why would it be stressful or problematic? I can attest it is not, Moon trine Neptune is part of my "psychic" combo and experiences (I mean, it's related to a gift, not a challenge).

posted July 23, 2014 10:08 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Does he say what that couple had in their synastry between those planets?

---

Not between those planets, but he mentioned that the synastry on the basic level looked much better with several helpful trines. But of course these trines cannot have been involving Venus and Mars, as a harmonic astrologer would never go beyond 2 degrees for a trine-aspect and then it woul dnot result in a square in the 4th harmonic chart.

It is a decision you have to make. Either you throw away all minor aspects, and use pretty much whole sign aspects with generous orbs, or you pay attention to minor aspects, and then the orbs have to be reduced.

I think both approaches are valid, but mixing them up in the same analysis-stage, is bound to bring wrong results.

posted July 23, 2014 10:10 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[b]The 7 degree trine is not a trine, but a 16th harmonic aspect.

That is actually one explanation why aspects with different orbs can feel so different, as they are picking up higher harmonics.

---

It is also a 16th harmonic aspect, on the subtle level of harmonics, still, I definitely feel this as a trine and out of my close relationships (romantic or otherwise), they complete this trine with an Aries planet.

But let's say it is 16th harmonics (which it isn't, I can assure you, in my case) - it won't be a problem if it were 16th harmonics, after all, it doesn't matter, however I'm not sure it can be felt so strong - why would it be stressful or problematic? I can attest it is not, Moon trine Neptune is part of my "psychic" combo and experiences (I mean, it's related to a gift, not a challenge).

[/B][/QUOTE]

actually all aspects, including squares, are gifts.
and I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this here. I donīt believe it is a 10 degree trine that you feel. Pretty sure there is something else going on explaining your psychic senses.

So letīsjust agree to disagree. We have vastly different views on this one.

posted July 23, 2014 10:11 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
The semi-octile IS a 16th harmonic aspects. Uranian astrologers (like EBertin, did, too) base their whole astrology system (you know midpoints and so on) on this harmonic, as they say the harmonics related to the number 4 (including the opposition, conjunction, square, semisquare/sesisquare) are those that have "event-character" and relate to actual manifestation/ realization of energies.

The trine, sextile, (harmonics based on the number 3 in some way) are more like conditions. They are harmonious, soft, nice, a cushion, but they donīt MAKE anything happen.
(exception being if they result in amidpoint pattern, like the Grand trine or Yod does).

the 5 now (along with the 7) is interesting, as it is neither based on the number 4 (or 2) nor 3.
They are something alltogether different.
And fascinating. imo.

---

Yes, I know it is 16th harmonics, but I can't wrap my mind about this idea of 4th harmonics being "incompatible" aspects. I really disagree with this lol

For example, in this case, why a semi-octile (or sextile or trine for that matter), in a synastry would weigh so much as to become a separative aspect, heralding sexual incompatibility?

I suppose that couple had semi-octile or trines in their synastry between those planets, since they had them translated as squares in the 4th.

EDIT: it does show conflict though, in the sense that it shows a lack-of-major-aspect, if they only had semi-octiles. So in this respect, Hamblin may be onto something.

------------------

posted July 23, 2014 10:14 AM            

However they got divorced and were complaining about their sex-life apparently. So seems even if it was a trine, it did not help them too much. But of course to form a real opinion we would need to look at the data on our own.

posted July 23, 2014 10:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

actually all aspects, including squares, are gifts.
and I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on this here. I donīt believe it is a 10 degree trine that you feel. Pretty sure there is something else going on explaining your psychic senses.

So letīsjust agree to disagree. We have vastly different views on this one.

---

lol yes, let's disagree, no problem.

However, if a wide trine is highlighted by numerous persons bringing a third leg to a GT, it looks like a trine to me. It wasn't activated by other 16th harmonics, it was activated by a simple Aries planet.

Anyway, that's not the topic here, and all these harmonics fascinate me a lot.

posted July 23, 2014 10:20 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
I thinkt hat is debatable if the squares in 4th harmonic really relate to unresolvable incompatibility. I am with you on this one.

However they got divorced and were complaining about their sex-life apparently. So seems even if it was a trine, it did not help them too much. But of course to form a real opinion we would need to look at the data on our own.

---

Yes, indeed. Perhaps they had only semi-octile between these planets in synastry, which could be translated as a lack of mutual sexual aspects.

posted July 23, 2014 10:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
just a bit to read, if anyone`s interested
http://www.astrosoftware.com/SAPTAMSA%20AND%20NAVAMSA%20CHARTS.pdf

---

Thank you for the link, Ceri. I like its practical nature. It's not very different from how I see 4th/8th harmonics: our motivation for action, the things that push us to act - here, drives and needs. To be honest, out of all harmonics, I'd sure like to understand the 4th, I'd like to understand sesquisquares, semisquares etc. The lunar analogy - disseminating, gibbous - is also an interesting approach when it comes to these aspects (Jeff Greene, I think).

Looking at my 8th harmonics and reading it as the link suggests:

There is a late degree cross between Moon (conjunct Mars) opp Neptune squaring Mercury opp Psyche - a psychic/occult/art cross (well, I'm all over astrology right?? hahahaha) I am indeed very motivated by any combination between these planets. Also motivated to act based on hunches or dreams or visions, it is an impetus with this.

Venus conjunct Neptune and Valentine - being in love is a strong drive on all levels, and a strong need. Art too.

The Sun is involved in an Earth Grand Trine - Sun/Pluto/Venus - I guess my inclination to bring things into a practical form and to work with passion are helpful for fulfillment.

posted July 23, 2014 12:18 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
In my view, the 4th harmonics should show our "action hero" profile, rather than "inner challenges" "conflict" "blockages" etc. In a synastry, it should show where those two people are more active (of course, this includes/involves events, because there is a tight correlation between action and events in life).

---

I agree with that.

Well, action often comes as the result of challenges, but it just means the challenges pushed you to DO something. That surge of energy. That is how I see it personally.

posted July 23, 2014 12:21 PM            

I agree with Fey Cochran`s take on 7th harmonic there. I feel it very privately. But then again I have quite the crazy 7th harmonic. Wanna see?

posted July 23, 2014 12:34 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

There is a late degree cross between Moon (conjunct Mars) opp Neptune squaring Mercury opp Psyche -

---

Moon-Neptune?

(of course it appears as opposition in the 8th harmonic if it was square in the 4th harmonic).

Personally I like looking at the 8th harmonic though, as I think you pick up all the nicely event-oriented action-aspect this way.

posted July 23, 2014 12:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Yes I prefer Cochrane`s approach to most others, cause it is so practical.
I don`t agree with his assumption about the 7th harmonic though, being all about hard work and analytical, focused. While the 7th harmonic is one of the most focused probably, it is not purely intellectual.

I agree with Fey Cochran`s take on 7th harmonic there. I feel it very privately. But then again I have quite the crazy 7th harmonic. Wanna see?

As if you have a choice -

---

LOL I've seen it and I know you are a witch, cause it was pretty obvious. But I'd like to see it again.

posted July 23, 2014 12:42 PM            

[/URL]

posted July 23, 2014 12:49 PM            

How do you feel that complete integration with the Shadow on the Vertex axis? (Sun Moon Pluto) It's like a New Moon vs Pluto.

posted July 23, 2014 01:03 PM            

probably also obsession with understanding relationships in a very deep sense.

posted July 23, 2014 01:34 PM            

Just a guess with this though, not enough data yet.

posted July 23, 2014 03:35 PM            

Question: why is the Moon conjunct Pluto and Vertex conjunct the Node and Sun in Aries again? These things are even in our tropical composite.