posted July 22, 2014 11:43 AM            

Gotta come back to that.
I wished I could put the chart here, but unfortunately astro.com does not have the option to do harmonics of composites, so they can be manually calculated (or you use Solar fire ).

Interesting though.

Using Hamblin`s recommended orbs:

conj/ opposition 6°
square 3°
trine/ sextile 2°
quinkunx/semisextile 1°

posted July 22, 2014 12:54 PM            

And you have to tell us what it means and what to look for

posted July 22, 2014 01:30 PM            

pull up the 5th harmonic chart for you and the other person on astro.com

Let`s say your Sun in this chart is 5 Aries and his Sun is 5 Leo.
For the composite position you need the midpoint of these two. So 5 Gemini would be the placement of Sun in 5th harmonic composite chart.

ATTENTION
The signs bear no meaning (in harmonic astrology!)
The only thing that is of interest is the aspect and aspectfigures that are being formed within the orbs I mentioned. And yes keep STRICT to these orbs (Leeloo, yes, you are right, I am looking at YOU ).
The only time I would allow a bit of a leeway above these orbs would be if there was an aspectifigure in the chart and containing a midpoint picture with about 1 degree orb.

And yes that means sticking to 2 degree orb for trines and sextiles!
Remember the trines and sextiles in the 5th harmonic chart are not REALLY trines and sextiles (they are only in terms of 5th harmonic matters), in fact it means we are picking up minor minor minor aspects in the natal chart.

A conjunction in 5th harmonic chart is really a quintile or biquintile in the normal chart
an opposition is a decile (10th harmonic aspect) in the natal chart.
a trine is a 15th harmonic aspect in the natal chart
a square would be a 20th harmonic aspect
and so on

THAT is why the orb needs to be so small (the larger the harmonic, the smaller the orb)

the 5 degree conjunction in a 5th harmonic chart would appear as one degree quintile in the composite.

I know it sounds so technical, but I just put it out there to put the harmonic charts in perspective.

Also never ever compare the harmonic to the natal, or a harmonic of a different number; it is comparing apples with oranges (as Bob Marks put it so succinctly).
The signs are just there to make it easier to see the aspects, that is all there is to them.

I am of course strictly speaking from a harmonic astrologer`s point of view (the Vedic astrologer would say something different; though they would use sidereal zodiac and whole sign aspects anyway; traditional ones at least ).

the 5th harmonic chart is highlighting the quintiles in a chart, so it will have quintile character.

BTW just stumbled across the mentioning in Hamblins book that the squares in 5th harmonic chart relate to "blind obsession". Sounds juicy

posted July 22, 2014 01:46 PM            

Cochrane writes that:

"5th Harmonic
The 5th harmonic indicates power and the ability to have
power or lordship in some area. It is a kind of art and kind of
marriage (but 9th harmonic describes the marriage partner).

It also relates to sexual penetration. [...]
The 5th
harmonic indicates playfulness and creativity (Cochrane" http://www.astrosoftware.com/harmonicfirst32.pdf

Dawn Bodrogi wrote that on quintiles in synastry (and i htink it can be transferred to the 5th harmonic chart in general, AT LEAST to conjunctions in this chart)

"When we divide the circle by the number five, we get an aspect of 72 degrees. The meaning of five is complex. In sequence, it’s the first number to step out of the materialistic ‘box’ of the four. It’s the first number to transcend the four, which creates material reality. The five is represented by the pentagram, which shows a ‘four’ transcended by a fifth point above it. This fifth point acts as a funnel through which concentrated higher energies can flow down into manifest reality. The five is considered creative and is associated with the Sun (Leo). It is made up of the energy of duality (the 2) transcended by the 3. Natally, quintiles indicate gifts—the two planets can use their qualities in a beneficial, creative manner. Quintiles may show unusual talents or abilities that seem complete and god-sent—abilities that we don’t have to struggle to perfect.

In synastry, between charts, quintiles can produce an almost other-worldly understanding of the way the individual planets are operating. If my Saturn is quintile your Venus, you will have an innate compassion for my Saturn issues, and I will instinctively know how to support your Venus. However, relationships dominated by quintiles often possess an other-worldly quality of their own, as if they don’t rely on the common things of this life to survive. Loves that continue long after the affair is over are often quintile loves."
http://theinnerwheel.com/2010/03/27/breathing-refined-air-the-esoteric-aspects/

It actually reminds me a little of the descritpion of 5th house synastry, or maybe that is just me, as I LOVE quintiles.
Well I guess it is no suprise but I have a very close quintile between Moon and Mars, which appears in my 5th harmonic hart as conjunction with about 20 minutes of orb, and both are trine Jupiter in this chart

(which means that in my natal Moon and Mars are in a 15th harmonic aspect with Jupiter, which I would never have realized otherwise. lol

It is an aspect for easy expression (the trine!) of creativity (in the 5th harmonic chart).

Moon-Mars-Jupiter, I kinda like that. lol

BTW only use the angles if you are VERY certain you have the exact degree of ASC! Cause just a minute or two might change the ASC in the 5th harmonic chart considerably (1 degree equals 5 degrees in the 5th harmonic chart. So if your ASC is just 2 degrees off, the difference will be 10 degrees in the harmonic chart).

posted July 22, 2014 01:58 PM            

I've rounded the degrees, but to be honest, most of these positions are surprisingly exact (rounded). If you look at our 5th harmonics chart, most placements are like his Venus 1.20 my Venus 11.21 etc.

So:

Sun 15 Taurus
Moon 7 Aries
Venus 20 Gem
Mars 20 Sag
Mercury 7 Scorpio
Jupiter 2 Sag
Saturn 7 Leo
Pluto 0 Scorpio
Uranus 12 Aqua
Neptune 12 Virgo
ASC 28 Gem
MC 7 Gem
NN 6 Scorpio

which means

Sun trine Neptune (3)(can I put this one here? kidding!)

A 0 Minor Triangle with Moon trine Saturn apex MC in Gem (obviously this is actually a Kite on IC/MC axis)

Mercury conjunct NN (1)
Jupiter conjunct IC(5)
Pluto conjunct NN (6)

Yod with Mercury/NN as apex, Moon/MC as sextile

Mercury square Saturn (0)

Neptune quincunx Uranus (0)

ASC trine Pluto out of sign (2)

and the most impressive, I guess: Venus opp Mars (0) (crosses our Sun opp Sun exact, but you said NO! sorry, couldn't help noticing.)

So, what does it mean?

posted July 22, 2014 02:08 PM            

Even last concert, so many years later (well 6 years later) he reflected on this aloud, having been asked so often, which role came the easiest to him, he marvelled still at the simpleness to become Mozart on stage.
In fact, he said, it feels almost perverse HOW easy it was; actually I didn´t become this role, I just stepped out onto stage and was myself.

So I guess this explains with which character he identifies the most.

Also the quintile-character is what I feel so acutely about him, synastrically I mean. What was gobsmacking to me about the first times I saw him, and experienced him ons tage, and experienced MYSELF, how I was when I was seeing him (in a way I think I fell in love with myself, as I was reflected in him. Strange thing to say I know. lol) adn the feeling, the vibration that was the most htere was CAREFREENESS.
So free, so much of that "anything`s possible" feeling, that sparkly bubbly feeling of not just simply serenity, but exhilaration. It is hard to explain, but I think THAT is 5th harmonic!
Along with the intrigue, and curiosity and fascination and eagerness to "figure it out" (Mozart was great in structuring his creativity, wasn`t he? Though he lacked structure in much else. lol)

So what I was thinking is that:

1. He must have a tremendously strong 5th harmonic chart (Mr Sag htat is)

2. I must have a rather strong 5th harmonic chart as well, though maybe less obvious, maybe not so strong aspect figures? More isolated aspects as this Moon conjunct Mars, trine Jupiter, but lacking the third trine, to make it a Grand trine?

3. His 5th harmonic chart must somehow trigger mine in an important way; probably linking to my Moon-Mars-conjunction at least; I also have a 5th harmonic pattern of Saturn-Neptune-NN, as Saturn is biquintile my Neptune-NN-conjunction and so I feel he would be triggering that as well.

4. the 5th harmonic composite would be strong, too. I just feel very quintile like in his presence. lol

posted July 22, 2014 02:15 PM            

I would also note the midpoints of the aspect figures.

I think you also have a Grand trine with Moon-Saturn-IC, right?

Personally aspectfigures or quintiles with Saturn fascinate me, as it seems so un-quintile-like. LOL
I could imagine though that Saturn gives a lot of structure, stabilizes the expressivity and creative sparkling of the quintiles. It could be getting a little out of hand (it sometimes is related to extremes as well), too crazy, too unpredictable maybe (at least if Uranus were part of it).

But with Saturn, you have the quintile-magic along with the stability and structure.

There might be a very unique, even unconventional way in which you relate to each other on a deeply emotional level.

posted July 22, 2014 02:20 PM            

What about the regular aspects, as mirrors?

For example, we have a wide Moon square Saturn in comp (7), here an exact trine.

Our 5th harmonic aspects in the comp

Mercury quintile Pluto (1)
Uranus quintile POF

POF here is at 17 Leo, squaring the Sun.(2)

posted July 22, 2014 02:28 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Leeloo,

I would also note the midpoints of the aspect figures.

I think you also have a Grand trine with Moon-Saturn-IC, right?

Personally aspectfigures or quintiles with Saturn fascinate me, as it seems so un-quintile-like. LOL
I could imagine though that Saturn gives a lot of structure, stabilizes the expressivity and creative sparkling of the quintiles. It could be getting a little out of hand (it sometimes is related to extremes as well), too crazy, too unpredictable maybe (at least if Uranus were part of it).

But with Saturn, you have the quintile-magic along with the stability and structure.

There might be a very unique, even unconventional way in which you relate to each other on a deeply emotional level.

The Venus-Mars-opposition is WOW, even if it is just an isolated aspect (personally I prefer the aspectfigures more lol), but it is so exact. It means you have a Venus-Mars-decile in natal composite. It is a bringing together of feminity and masculinity in a very unique expressive way, but at the same time seems more practical, more grounded than the conjunction; like there is more awareness of what is going on.
Well Hamblin seems to like it; he writes about the Venus-Mars in 5th harmonic chart: "a very seductive aspect"

---

Thank you for the explanation, Ceri. Yes, I was intrigued too. Perhaps that part (Saturn here) is treated with a lot of creativity, holds some sort of magical quality for the couple. Not to forget Saturn is a powerful esoteric, initiatic planet. There's also this Moon/Saturn/IC kiting on MC , an archetype after all. And Mercury square Saturn (this one baffled me) - but it is supposed to be the aspect of the "scientist", a good aspect for a Magician in his lab, turning mind into matter and the other way around. It's like a long-term and applied quintile energy as you said, almost like a research with it lol I have Mercury square Saturn in my natal, he has Mercury trine Saturn exact.

Interesting thread

------------------

posted July 22, 2014 02:30 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Yes your Mercury-Pluto-quintile should come up either as conjunction or opposition in the 5th harmonic composite, but probably with larger orb (5 degrees?).

---

It's actually 7 -a conjunction, is it possible?

posted July 22, 2014 02:34 PM            

I was talking to a psychic friend the other day and she said that she had had an epiphany about biquintiles.

She said - Biquintiles are like the latent talents you had no idea you had. They aren't as apparent and have to be activated. By a transit, for example. Quintiles, on the other hand, are talents that one doesn't need to work for - they simply flow.

posted July 22, 2014 02:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
It's actually 7 -a conjunction, is it possible?

---

posted July 22, 2014 02:38 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Astro keen:
An interruption, but this may be relevant:

I was talking to a psychic friend the other day and she said that she had had an epiphany about biquintiles.

She said - Biquintiles are like the latent talents you had no idea you had. They aren't as apparent and have to be activated. By a transit, for example. Quintiles, on the other hand, are talents that one doesn't need to work for - they simply flow.

Does this make sense?

---

posted July 22, 2014 02:40 PM            

yes, the square between Mercury and Saturn could actually inhibit some obsessive-compulsive quality when it comes to research and structured thinking, to get REALLY onto the bottom of it all.

posted July 22, 2014 02:40 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

The Venus-Mars-opposition is WOW, even if it is just an isolated aspect (personally I prefer the aspectfigures more lol), but it is so exact. It means you have a Venus-Mars-decile in natal composite. It is a bringing together of feminity and masculinity in a very unique expressive way, but at the same time seems more practical, more grounded than the conjunction; like there is more awareness of what is going on.
Well Hamblin seems to like it; he writes about the Venus-Mars in 5th harmonic chart: "a very seductive aspect"

---

BTW, we have an exact Venus/Mars tredecile - 108, only 2 seconds away.

What Wilkinson says about decile and biquintile:

For example the Decile, or Semi-quintile, is a 36 degree aspect showing a partly developed creative uniqueness, a minor gift, or some other manifestation of specialized creativity. It either secures a unique tendency, or is the final flowering of a gift already realized. The Biquintile, as the name implies, is a 144 degree aspect showing a unique interactive situation, where one gift interacts with another gift, creatively and/or regeneratively. It is an interactive unique form of self-expression that often involves other people and their unique gifts, whether they align harmoniously with yours or not.

What he says about TREDECILE

Last but not least, we now take a look at the least-understood aspect in the series, the Tredecile, which precipitated this article for reasons I'll make clear shortly. This is a highly specialized aspect of 108 degrees, which besides being a mythological "Sacred number" symbolizing Divine Mother Energy, is also the complementary angle to the Quintile. Thus the Tredecile indicates a very special type of unique energy that complements whatever uniqueness, gifts, or specialized quintessence are occurring at the moment in a situation.

I have seen this aspect operate in several fashions, and all seem to involve a circumstance presenting itself that perfectly fits a unique gift or need, or a gift or unique quality that fits the need of a pre-existing circumstance. The Tredecile is complementary, interactive, and specialized, the "quintessence" of a thing perfectly complementing the "quintessence" of a circumstance. When active, it seems to bring forth unique qualities in situations that involve interaction to bring forth awareness, completion, polarization, or re-polarization. The points opposite the planets in Tredecile are often associated with how the energies manifest, some need being fulfilled, some promise brought to expression, or some specialized gift or talent completed.

I have given it the keyword "SERENDIPITY." I believe this is the best descriptor for how the Tredecile works its magic. So exactly what does this word mean? We are told the definition of Serendipity involves "the faculty or phenomenon of finding valuable or agreeable things not sought for" and "an aptitude for making desirable discoveries by accident" and "good luck in making unexpected and fortunate discoveries."

It is a word of relatively recent origin, invented by the noted author Horace Walpole in one of the more than 3,000 letters he wrote. Specifically, we read from dictionary.com that

In a letter of January 28, 1754, Walpole says that "this discovery, indeed, is almost of that kind which I call Serendipity, a very expressive word." Walpole formed the word on an old name for Sri Lanka, Serendip. He explained that this name was part of the title of "a silly fairy tale, called The Three Princes of Serendip: as their highnesses traveled, they were always making discoveries, by accidents and sagacity, of things which they were not in quest of...."

great description, BTW, I love it

------------------

posted July 22, 2014 02:50 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Leeloo,

yes, the square between Mercury and Saturn could actually inhibit some obsessive-compulsive quality when it comes to research and structured thinking, to get REALLY onto the bottom of it all.

Though with the square in 5th harmonic chart, it could get too much, an exaggeration of the principles involved. with that aspect you are often pushing yourself to the limit and sometimes beyond it

---

Oh, yes, great description, like pushing the boundaries of matter (and time) - Saturn - or perhaps even trying to solve a puzzle hahaha

I am very interested about something and meant to ask you: do you think the 5th comp reflects the energy between them, the inner dynamics, or rather the energy they project as a couple, as a team? Like a couple of Olympic skating dancers lol and how they act in sync.

posted July 22, 2014 02:59 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

I am very interested about something and meant to ask you: do you think the 5th comp reflects the energy between them, the inner dynamics, or rather the energy they project as a couple, as a team? Like a couple of Olympic skating dancers lol and how they act in sync.

---

both.
It is the inner dynamic that radiates to the outside.

you will find other people probably mostly in the 7th house of the composite, and others might see the 7th house of the couple and probably the 10th house, 11th house as well.

They will not see the 4th house, not even the 5th house, unless it is reaching out to the other-oriented houses above the horizon.

As for the ASC, I am not sure. maybe, but only if these people are close and personal friends of hte couple.

posted July 22, 2014 03:08 PM            

ASC 5 Sagittarius

Sun 12 Sagittarius
Pluto 16 Sagittarius
Juno 21 Sagittarius

Black Moon 22 Capricorn

Ceres 26 Aquarius

Venus 20 Pisces
Jupiter 23 Pisces

Uranus 1 Taurus

NN 13 Cancer
Mars 25 Cancer

Pallas 23 Leo
Chiron 29 Leo

Saturn 19 Virgo

Vertex 4 Libra

Neptune 16 Libra
Moon 24 Libra
Mercury 26 Libra

Vesta 11 Scorpio
MC 22 Scorpio

posted July 22, 2014 03:17 PM            

Sun Pisces 3
Moon Aries 3
Mercury Virgo 28
Venus Saggitarius 27
Mars Taurus 29
Jupiter Aquarius 8
Saturn Aries 26
Uranus Saggitarius 3
Neptune Aquarius 3
Pluto Aries 15
NN Taurus 3

So where does it leave us.

Sun semisextile Moon exact
Sun square Uranus exact haha
Sun semisextile Neptune exact
Sun sextile NN exact

Moon trine Uranus exact (duplicates from our synastry, as well as the Sun square Uranus)
Moon sextile Neptune exact
Moon semisextile NN exact

Mercury square Venus 1
Mercury trine Mars 2

Venus trine Saturn 1

posted July 22, 2014 03:18 PM            

technically Sun conjunct Juno is out of orb
however, the midpoint picture is

Pluto = Sun/Juno 0.44

Pluto square Saturn
Pluto sqare Venus - out of orb
Venus opposite Saturn close

Juno square Venus
Juno square Jupiter
Juno square Saturn

Juno= Venus/jupiter 0.12
Uno= Jupiter/Saturn 0.17

Both 5th harmonic patterns (in natal composite) are actually connected TO each other as well, in this instance making a T-square (obsession, pushing the limit etc.)

Here it is JUNO that makes the connection as it is part of the Sun/Pluto/Juno-pattern but is the only planet that makes squrae sot Venus/Jupiter/Saturn which are in orb, and of course is the triggering planet in those midpoint pictures.

2) Venus/Jupiter/Mars/MC-complex
-----------------------------------
This one is again an out of orb aspect.

Venus is out of orb for a trine with Mars, Jupiter is just a few minutes out of orb for a trine with Mars as well.

However, all three, Venus, Jupiter and Mars are being in orb of trine to MC, so MC becomes a catalyst or something like that.

In fact we have this very precise midpoint picture

MC=Venus/Mars 0.01!

(I would not dream to NOT pay attention to this one. lol)

3) Moon/Mercury complexes
---------------------------
Moon certainly conjuncts Mercury and Mercury opposes Uranus (though the Moon-uranus-opposition is slightly out of orb

another T-square

Mars opposite Black Moon
Mars square Mercury closely
Mars square Moon
Black Moon square MOon
Black Moon square Mercury (slightly out of orb)

Moon= Mars/Black Moon 0.28
Mars= MOon/Mercury 0.27

4) Yod with Moon-Jupiter-Pallas
----------------------------------

Moon sextile Pallas
Moon quinkunx Jupiter
Pallas quinkunx Jupiter

Jupiter = Moon/Pallas 0.28
(with Saturn near the release point)

posted July 22, 2014 03:31 PM            

Ceri, I see telepathic connections and transformation/Juno/Venus for you.

Venus/Mars on MC seems super potent.

Do you have any tredecile, BTW?