posted May 21, 2015 01:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by olgatheo:
Its very detailed so it does not matter if it's aspecting
your Sun sign yet , the author focuses more on the
placement of Pluto ie what house it falls in ! Example I am a Leo and Gemini ASC so I read both ! Pluto in 6th and 8th which is no picnic so far ! !
Tell me what you think

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posted May 21, 2015 01:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Voix....could you do me a huge favor when you get the chance, if you do....if not I'll get to it as soon as I get a free moment. Or we can do it together but I don't hand your dad's info.

These asteroids I think might give us an interesting picture regarding our step dad's.....of course not all of them will be hits but I think if we find we are seeing DW, meaning both of us have aspects with our dad's it could be invaluable research into the meaning of the asteroids and seeing potential for childhood abuse.

Nessus 7066
Dejanira 157
Child 4580
Kida 5140
Karma 3811
Anga (3158)- anger
Angrilli (18102)-angerly
Apatheia (8273)
Baade (1501)
Deprez (9795)
Devience (21419)
Grieve (4451)
Grimm (6912)
Hasse (7478) German for 'Hate'
Hazard (9305)
Hinderer (3404)
Lie (26955)
Maniac (228029)
Medusa (149)
Melancholia (5708)
Mentall (7116)
NOT (28570)
Nemisis (128)
Ohno (5180)
Pinocchio (12927)
Poisson (12874)
Prevert (18624)
Prey (6157)
Paine (5188)
Sedna (90377)
Sado (118230)
Swindle (8690)
Tore (97186)- to be tore or torn apart?
Villon (10140)
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(171) Ophelia
The name itself means, "in need of help or helper"
Very karmic for people who have been hurt and in need of help, dont get it and instead help themselves by turning their pain around and becoming empowered to help others, sound a bit like Chiron's story!
Her meanings...
Female despair and madness
Tragic undoing caused from oppression
Maddening endurance
Innocence gone mad
Duty to the point of losing yourself; driving one to insanity

Positives...
Demolishing the instruments used for her captivity
Exposing truth behind oppression, revolutionary gestures against those who cause oppression
Disowning your weakness and taking on a new empowered role
Ophelia goes mad in her madness she becomes Elektra....a heroine, revolting against the oppression of women;the mythological heroine of logic and revenge.

(130) Elektra
"I shall here first recount the crucial moments in the development of this archetype through the centuries, showing how the visual dimension has been vital for Ophelia’s representation, and how, in the collective imagery, this character has been deeply associated representing female despair and madness. The second part will then address the issue of how these sometimes contradictory and always iconographically powerful images made it possible for Ophelia and her madness to acquire a central function in the destruction and reconstruction of Shakespeare’s Hamlet. In his most cryptic yet powerful play, Hamletmaschine, as I will demonstrate, Heiner Müller promotes Ophelia’s madness as a revolutionary means to generate a connection between people and their unconscious. Finally, this association of Ophelia with the communicative power of images will become a metaphor for theatrical fiction and the power (or inability) to trigger chaos in order to generate a new cosmos world of conventions."

In Delacroix’s painting, Ophelia struggles to resist the cruel forces of nature by grabbing a branch, and, being bare-breasted, becomes “a symbol both of wounded, self absorbed sexuality and of the destruction of innocence by an indifferent world” http://shakespeare.edel.univ-poitiers.fr/index.php?id=161

Ophelia has limited options as a woman in a patriarchal society and this is what separates her from Hamlet, who has the freedom to change his own fate. Ophelia needs to be obedient and is not allowed to express herself and her true feelings. What happens in her life is determined by the whims of the men who control her. She is obedient to her father and brother and also to the king, and although she tries to do what is right, she is often pulled along by these men. Unlike Hamlet, who can act according to his own will and speak his mind as he wants, Ophelia must find an alternative to express herself. The only out that she sees is in madness and eventually death. As a mad woman, Ophelia would not be bound by the societal restrictions of women; she could voice herself; however, even in madness she is not free. Even though she is able to have a voice, she still has no freedom of choice and she is ultimately regarded as nonsensical and her words are taken to be simply mad-talk. Whereas Hamlet has the power and potential to change his fate, Ophelia does not and her death is tragic because the only escape she sees from her oppression is madness and death. Thus, her limited options in a patriarchal society and her realization of those limitations are what make Ophelia's death the true tragedy of Hamlet.

As a woman in a society dominated by men, Ophelia has few choices in life. While unmarried she would have to obey her father and once married she would have to obey her husband. It is clear from the text that Ophelia is a proper woman for her time. She obediently does as her father tells her without complaint. Even if she does not want to comply with the rules, when her father gave the order, she obeyed. Her real attitude is clear when she has a conversation about chastity, first with Laertes, her brother, then with Polonius, her father. After Laertes rather explicitly warns Ophelia to fear losing her virginity, she replies by telling him not to lecture her, “Whiles, a puffed and reckless libertine, / Himself the primrose path of dalliance treads, / And recks not his own rede” (1.3.48-50). She is able to rebuke her brother to some extent, but when her father gives her the same lecture and tells her not to accept Hamlet’s advances, she simply replies, “I shall obey, my lord” (1.3.135). This early scene in the play sets up Ophelia’s frame of mind. Although Ophelia wants to believe Hamlet is true to her and “Hath given countenance to his speech… / With almost all the holy vows of heaven” (1.3.112-13), her father’s word is law and what he says she must follow, for “if she refuses Polonius, she risks social ostracism and grave insult to the man who capriciously controls her future” (Campbell 58). Essentially, Ophelia was the property of her father.

(196) Philomela
Raped and brutalized by the one meant to protect her...
Loss of her ability to speak, her tongue was cut out to keep her from telling what had happened to her.

"According to Ovid, in the fifth year of Procne's marriage to Tereus, King of Thrace and son of Ares, she asked her husband to "Let me at Athens my dear sister to see or let her come to Thrace, and visit me."

Indulging his wife's request, Tereus agreed to travel to Athens and escort Philomela, his wife's sister, to Thrace.
King Pandion of Athens, the father of Philomela and Procne, was apprehensive about letting his only remaining daughter leave his home and protection and asks Tereus to protect her as if he were her father. Tereus agrees.

However, Tereus lusted for Philomela when he first saw her, and that lust grew during the course of the return voyage to Thrace.
Arriving in Thrace, he forced her to a cabin or lodge in the woods and raped her. After the assault, Tereus threatened her and advised her to keep silent.
Philomela was defiant and angered Tereus. In his rage, he was incited to cut out her tongue and abandon her in the cabin.
Rendered unable to speak because of her injuries, Philomela wove a tapestry (or a robe) that told her story and had it sent to Procne.
Procne was incensed and in revenge, she killed her son by Tereus, Itys (or Itylos), boiled him and served him as a meal to her husband. After Tereus ate Itys, the sisters presented him with the severed head of his son, and he became aware of their conspiracy and his cannibalistic meal.
He snatched up an axe and pursued them with the intent to kill the sisters. They fled but were almost overtaken by Tereus at Daulia in Phocis.
In desperation, they prayed to the gods to be turned into birds and escape Tereus' rage and vengeance. The gods transformed Procne into a swallow and Philomela into a nightingale.
Subsequently, the gods would transform Tereus into a hoopoe."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philomela

(2150) Nyctimene- Princess of Lesbos (in the Greek Aegean) who was raped by her own father. She fled to the woods and there hid herself in shame. Athena in sympathy transformed the girl into an owl, and appointed her as her animal familiar.
"Nyctimene, daughter of Epopeus, king of the Lesbians, is said to have been a most beautiful girl. Her father, Epopeus, smitten by passion, embraced her, and left her overcome by shame, she hid herself in the woods. Minerva [Athena] out of pity changed her into an owl, which, the owl out of shame, does not come into the light but appears only at night."

Epopeus was also a mythical Greek king of Sicyon, with an archaic bird-name that linked him to epops, the hoopoe, the "watcher". A fragment of Callimachus' Aitia appears to ask, "Why, at Sicyon, is it the hoopoe, and not the usual "splendid ravens", that is the bird of good omen?"

(665) Sabine- (10386) Romulus
Sabine Women in Ancient Rome
At first, it was mostly men who settled the city of Rome. It was a rough city and did not attract many women. Romulus realized this and tried to attract women from neighboring communities. He recognized that if Rome was to survive, it needed women to help populate the town. The Romans devised a plan to solve their problem. They invited a nearby tribe, the Sabians, to a festival. Once inside the city, the men were attacked and killed and the women abducted and raped (the word rape may refer to wife snatching, which was not uncommon in that time period). The surviving Sabian men returned to their city for reinforcements. They later returned to Rome with King Titus Tatius to get their women back. The Sabians were able to enter the city by getting a Roman to betray the city and unlock the gates. The city would have been sacked if not for the unexpected resistance the Sabians found once inside. The Sabians found the Romans being helped by their new Sabian wives. The wives called a halt to the violence. They explained to their tribe that they were happy with their new lives in Rome. The conflict was ended diplomatically by Romulus and Titus by agreeing that the two groups would become one with the seat of power staying in Rome. The Sabian patricians had power in the Rome government for years to follow.

Leda(38)-Zues(5731) Zues raped Leda

Lucretia (281) Raped by Prince Sextus Tarquinius

Dinah(17472) raped by Canaanite Prince(Biblical account)

Susanna(542) she was threatened to be raped by 2 elders. (Biblical account from the book of Daniel)

Tamar (326 Tamara?)raped by her half brother, Amnon.(2 Samuel, biblical account)

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posted May 21, 2015 01:27 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Thank you so much, Gabby.

I absolutely love your vibe.
You are so wise and positive, despite all the things you've been through. I find that very inspiring and admirable. I have noticed you tend to help a lot of people on here by providing them with very insightful and humane yet spiritual advice, so respect for that. We need more people like you!

Naturally I also love Voix's vibe. Actually, I noticed Voix and the way she expresses herself in her old(er) posts, not only in that previous thread where I posted. Something about the way you write on here, Voix, is very attractive to me - a sense of poise, calmness, elegance, and wisdom. I'm not sure how to explain it. (Gosh, I hope I don't sound creepy, here.)

But yeah, I got a positive vibe from both of you in that previous thread, and while I'm no psychic and certainly subject to my own biases, I just felt a sense of "right" when you were explaining your experiences and points of view related to abuse and healing, and so on.

Thank you both for sharing and being patient and strong.

As for my chart (without the aspects though so the positions are easier to see):
http://i.imgur.com/y5LtQ3P.png

I think the most prominent thing here is my DSC and NN conjuncting Gabby's Sun/Mercury and Voix's Uranus.
It also looks like my Anti-Vertex conjuncts Voix's DSC and Gabby's Chiron/Vertex. Pretty cool stuff!

I can send you guys my DOB/TOB if you feel like playing around with all the charts, or post the synastries and what not. Up to you.

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Doux, that is a lovely thing to say. I always feel great when people like how I communicate, it was a tough war for me to verbalise anything, so thank you!

I'm looking at your chart now.

Your SATURN is conj. my SUN.
Gabby's is conj. my MC.

My URANUS conj. your DC/NN (1)

My ASC/SATURN/PLUTO (and widely, MARS) conj. your VERTEX

Your SUN opp. my CHIRON (2)

Your PLUTO on my ANTI-VERTEX (4)

My JUPITER conj. your MERCURY exact - this could be responsible for your liking my writing!

Just realised you already highlighted some of those - sorry! My enthusiasm to look took over.

posted May 21, 2015 01:53 PM            

Gabby-stepdad:

Voix-stepdad:

The 2nd 10.

Gabby-stepdad:

Voix-stepdad:

The 3rd 10.

Gabby-stepdad:

Voix-stepdad:

That should start us off!

posted May 21, 2015 02:12 PM            

First-
Your step dad's Nessus on your Vertex/Chiron opposed your Kida, your Sun/Child/Karma t-square

posted May 21, 2015 04:37 PM            

*** What is POISSON btw?

You have PREY in the 4th house natally.

I have PREY conj. ASC.
My MEDUSA conj. his ASC.
My NEMESIS conj. his PINOCCHIO.

posted May 21, 2015 04:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Your stepdad's NEMESIS/PINOCCHIO conj. your IC.
Your stepdad also appears to have his PREY conj. his own IC.
POISSON-PAINE

*** What is POISSON btw?

You have PREY in the 4th house natally.

I have PREY conj. ASC.
My MEDUSA conj. his ASC.
My NEMESIS conj. his PINOCCHIO.

GOSH! I have MANIA conj. SUN natally.
Ah well, something's got to write the songs!

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My step dad was beaten to the point of near death by his dad, he thought what he did to us was kind, and compared to what was done to him...it was mild. His father was a horrible man and just one time he got me alone and the things he did I can't even discuss...

Poison is something lethal/deadly for you.

Prey conjunct AC, that's the place you naturally will be easy prey for another.
Medusa was raped and then punished for being raped...turned into a monster by an angry goddess...I think it was Athena, because she was raped in her holy temple. Sad story!

posted May 21, 2015 06:45 PM            

Ah, OK RE Poisson. I actually thought it was french for something, I get it now!

posted May 21, 2015 06:51 PM            

The parents are gods.

I'm actually finding this thread very comforting.

posted May 21, 2015 07:14 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
A child's holy temple is the home.

The parents are gods.

I'm actually finding this thread very comforting.

Are you OK yourself Gabby?

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posted May 21, 2015 07:29 PM            

His Nemesis is on your Nyctimene in your 3rd house, the house of your subconscious foundation, your innocence and vulnerability of being a trusting child...

(2150) Nyctimene- Princess of Lesbos (in the Greek Aegean) who was raped by her own father. She fled to the woods and there hid herself in shame. Athena in sympathy transformed the girl into an owl, and appointed her as her animal familiar.

His Child is conjunct your Philomela (btw, your Philomela is on my Valentine)
(196) Philomela
Raped and brutalized by the one meant to protect her...
Loss of her ability to speak, her tongue was cut out to keep her from telling what had happened to her.

Your Tamara/Nemisis/his Pinocchio opposed your Mars...
Tamar (326 Tamara?)raped by her half brother, Amnon.(2 Samuel, biblical account)

posted May 21, 2015 07:53 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Your stepdad's NEMESIS/PINOCCHIO conj. your IC.
Your stepdad also appears to have his PREY conj. his own IC.
POISSON-PAINE

*** What is POISSON btw?

You have PREY in the 4th house natally.

I have PREY conj. ASC.
My MEDUSA conj. his ASC.
My NEMESIS conj. his PINOCCHIO.

GOSH! I have MANIA conj. SUN natally.
Ah well, something's got to write the songs!

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posted May 22, 2015 11:59 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
I'm so sorry Doux, I missed that...I'm looking now

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It's okay, Gabby.

quote:

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Omg...your chart is cool! Your Plutonian out the @ss!!

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Haha, thanks. I don't really feel that way often though (Plutonian).

quote:

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My Merc/Sun saggy@3.32/4.28 is on your DC and NN....how cool is that?
Your Pluto is on my NN....love your Moon on Regulus

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Very cool. I usually greatly enjoy Sag energy, even though it squares my Moon and Chiron (very hard to get actually emotionally close to those people though, so far in my experience).

And thanks for mentioning Regulus, I had no idea it had moved into Virgo. That's very interesting. Although I'm not sure a 1° orb is allowed with Fixed Stars.

quote:

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Your Jupiter/Venus both trine my Mars exact
Your Moon sextiles my Mars
My Angel is on your Neptune/Uranus
Your Saturn is square my NN

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Saturn square the Nodes can be super glue-y, at least in romantic situations, haha.
Mars trine my Venus/Jupiter is absolute bliss.

quote:

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Our Vertex's are almost opposed...mine is aries@21.26, yours libra@24.53

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I like that.

quote:

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My name, Aura, Gaea, Oriola are all on your IC

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I don't know much about asteroids, but those sound cool, hehe.

Overall, some very interesting things, there. I think my NN/DSC being touched by your planets points to my finding you inspiring - you have qualities that I look up to, and perhaps feel I need to develop, myself.

posted May 22, 2015 12:08 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Doux, that is a lovely thing to say. I always feel great when people like how I communicate, it was a tough war for me to verbalise anything, so thank you!

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You're very welcome, Voix.

quote:

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Your SATURN is conj. my SUN.

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Well, looks like I might teach you some things, ha. (Though I really don't know what.) Hopefully it's not about limiting your self-expression!

quote:

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My URANUS conj. your DC/NN (1)

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Very interesting one, and Gabby's Sun and Mercury are right there, too. Uranus being an angle ruler (IC) makes it all the more important. What I said to Gabby definitely applies here as well - you seem to have qualities I admire, and will probably work on developing myself.

quote:

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My ASC/SATURN/PLUTO (and widely, MARS) conj. your VERTEX

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Very cool. I don't have much experience with my Vertex being touched by someone's planets. Hmm.

quote:

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Your PLUTO on my ANTI-VERTEX (4)

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So have some Pluto/Vertex DW going on... Interesting.

quote:

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My JUPITER conj. your MERCURY exact - this could be responsible for your liking my writing!

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Indeed, and overall liking of your ideas, I think. Jupiter conjunctions can be really awesome.

quote:

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Just realised you already highlighted some of those - sorry! My enthusiasm to look took over.

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No worries, at all.

Your Chiron tightly trines my Neptune and Uranus. Thought that was intriguing as well.

quote:

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Your data would be good, I'd like to see the wheel.

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Sure, I can send it to you via email.
Could you please send me an email first, so that neither of us have to share our addresses publicly on here (mine is on the forum, in Brown Owl School where you can see Moderators' names). If you can't find it, I'll just type it out here and edit later.

Ps. Gabby, feel free to send me an email if you wish, as well.

Have a wonderful day, ladies. ~

Ps. "Poisson" actually means "fish" in French, and I thought it was funny because Voix mistyped the word "Poison", haha.

posted May 22, 2015 02:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
I'm ok, I just have to take it slow. It's easier for me to read and interpret aspects as you list them because I can say how the aspect plays out without personalizing it to either of us. It's hard for me to look at the charts because I tend to absorb the energy or the emotions of a chart. My 12th house moon absorbs emotions and energy so easily, so keeping it logical and not looking to much at the actual chart helps me not feel the pain.
Both our synastry charts here are very painful...kind of took my breath away when I looked at them.
I deal with this often, so don't worry about me I know how to deal.....I'm strong!

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OK, I understand.

I am happy to list aspects, so you don't have to look at the charts.

And it's perfectly OK if you need to break, or check out of this thread completely.

posted May 22, 2015 03:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
OK, I understand.

I am happy to list aspects, so you don't have to look at the charts.

And it's perfectly OK if you need to break, or check out of this thread completely.

You are more important than this thread Gabby.

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I'm ok, I'm taking it slow doing like this and I listed some of your placements...that helps so I can see them.

I have pisces Pallas exact opposed my Moon.
The patterns of a chart turn into the charts emotions or feelings, Pallas has that intuitive/psychic energy and that energy is transposed onto my Moon so my feelings momentarily become what I sense from the charts energy.
To bad it's not a trine or something it wouldn't be such a shock or stress, but my opposition shows this process will not be exactly easy for me to deal with, it's something I must learn to balance, it's a gift either way!

Don't worry about me anymore! I'm enjoying looking this over and I want to help so we both can learn. Plus the initial overwhelming feeling has gone away.
Vesta sits on my Pallas in 6th, so im dedicating helping others heal, it's something I love... just have to be responsible about it.

posted May 23, 2015 08:32 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Ah, OK. I am still reading Olgatheo, but I will give feedback once I have digested the information. Thanks again for sharing it!

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posted May 23, 2015 03:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Gabby,

I have not forgotten about our thread. There was something wrong with the site from my end last night, and I couldn't get on.
I will come back tonight and respond properly.

---

posted May 24, 2015 02:41 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Your Villion, Dinah, Lucretia is on your Sun, the Sun of course(as you know) represents your dad...
Lucretia is EXACT on your Sun...
Lucretia (281) Raped by Prince Sextus Tarquinius
Dinah(17472) raped by Canaanite Prince(Biblical account)

His Nemesis is on your Nyctimene in your 3rd house, the house of your subconscious foundation, your innocence and vulnerability of being a trusting child...

(2150) Nyctimene- Princess of Lesbos (in the Greek Aegean) who was raped by her own father. She fled to the woods and there hid herself in shame. Athena in sympathy transformed the girl into an owl, and appointed her as her animal familiar.

His Child is conjunct your Philomela (btw, your Philomela is on my Valentine)
(196) Philomela
Raped and brutalized by the one meant to protect her...
Loss of her ability to speak, her tongue was cut out to keep her from telling what had happened to her.

Your Tamara/Nemisis/his Pinocchio opposed your Mars...
Tamar (326 Tamara?)raped by her half brother, Amnon.(2 Samuel, biblical account)

---

These are really quite telling Gabby.

His CHILD on my PHILOMENA is interesting.
I would have thought this one would have went the other way.
But perhaps this relates to how his childhood anger/suffering was transferred to me through abuse?

I haven't heard that interpretation of the 3rd house before, roots and early awareness I thought related to the 4th, but is it that the early awareness of self and how it relates to/interacts with the environment (communication) is the 3rd, and the 4th is the physical manifestation of that relationship (early home)?

I very much relate to Nyctimene. Every chance I got, I ran to nature. Whether it be forest, sea, mountains. It is the only time I was able to feel real and some sense of wholeness. I also ran to the piano, but as this was within his control, he would ban me from it as punishment for not being compliant enough.

posted May 24, 2015 02:45 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Don't worry about Maniac on your Sun, after you've work through the pain it is a very creative energy that will be release...I get manic/maniac creativity due to the pain I've felt and write poetry and my book. Hopefully since it's in my 10th house cancer@13.18 on Sirius someday I'll be successful with my writings!

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I used to write poetry too! My focus is songs now. But yes, that is what I meant, manic energy channelled into creative projects. The same energy got me through university.

I wish you all the best with your book, you are very brave for writing this. I hope you will share it one day, and let your truth fly.