posted May 27, 2015 02:42 AM            

The Pluto book is excellent reading, I have been enjoying it very much.
It provides clear and indepth descriptions, and I love the pieces of poetry throughout.

The only thing is, that I am struggling to relate it to my own chart.

When I read Libra Sun/ASC (I am ASC) it places Pluto in the 4th house, however transit Pluto is in my 3rd.

And when I read Aquarius Sun/ASC (I am Sun), it puts transit Pluto in my 12th house.

I am probably missing something!

Although the descriptions of Pluto in Capricorn are helpful anyway, as t.Pluto is retrograding/conjuncting my VENUS in Capricorn, and activating my SOUTH NODE and a square to 1st house stellium. So I can join some dots!

This by no means invalidates the book, like I said, I am enjoying it very much. I relate very much to Pluto and all he stands for, so the book is very interesting to me anyway.

posted May 27, 2015 02:58 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
^ Indeed!

I really like that we all have a Virgo Moon.
It's not a very common placement from what I've seen (at least IRL) so it feels sort of special, ha.

And Nodes activity is always a plus, for me. I know some people don't really like such connections as they tend to be "heavy" (as in, they usually point to lessons that need to be learned, and so on) but personally I find them interesting and intriguing.

I also like the fact that your Mercuries are in close aspect to my ASC - in my experience that's very good for communication and sharing of ideas (even though my own Mercury isn't in aspect with yours nor in a friendly sign).

I have a question for you girls:

How do you (think you) experience your retrograde planets?

I have a few ideas about my own Mercury Rx but would like to hear your thoughts.

Ps. The Moon is now actually in Virgo, yay for la coincidence!

---

Hmm. Good question Doux, and an area I am not familiar with.

I have Retro MERCURY and PLUTO.
EDIT: And SATURN.

I don't know how reliable internet sources are, but one states that the energies of the planet and turned inwards and become more subjective. And that the native may carry memories of past lives into this life?
(http://www.pathwaytoascension.com/astrology/lesson5.html)

I do go through long periods in my mind, and without contact with others, by choice. It's like of like active, mental meditation. I feel energised after being lost in my mind.

I also have conversations with myself in my head all the time. Covering most every possible scenerio/outcome of an event. I try not to do this so much though, as it can lead to catatrophising!

I work stuff out predominantly alone? I don't often ask anyone what they think of something, unless I'm TRULY stumped and have exhausted every possible;e avenue in solitude.

Perhaps we could say MERCURY Retro can be a bit of an introvert?
A quiet thinker? (as opposed to outloud)
An independent thinker perhaps?

I got rid of my TV 11 years ago, stopped reading newspapers, magazines, and newsites. And I severely filter and limit films. If I am getting an uneasy feeling that i am being manipulated (usually within the first half hour of a film), then I switch it off.
As I have had this feeling with around 90% of films I have seen in the cinema, I have walked out of many films. I refuse to support anything that attempts to close my mind and mould it to an agenda.

Maybe this is MERCURY Retro?

Pluto Retro, I have no idea. And this one is probably really important for me to figure, with him being in stellium, parallel MOON, and co-ruling my chart.

What are your thoughts on the retros Doux?

And yours Gabby?

posted May 27, 2015 03:03 AM            

(The creative aspect of this interp rings true for me. I do music and it has always been easier than verbal communication for me - at one time it was my only method of communication, as I did not have a true voice in the home)

MERCURY RETROGRADE – turns the mind inward, giving a tendency to repeatedly go back over prior events and lessons. The thought process is based in the subconscious rather than the conscious mind. This means the learning process is more Right Brain than Left Brain; you absorb the essence rather than the details. For this reason, you are likely to score lower on standardized and/or facts-oriented tests than those students not having MERCURY RETROGRADE.
PARENTS, BE ALERT – The child with MERCURY RETROGRADE is likely to be made to feel and told that he/she is less intelligent than he/she really is. This child’s learning process is different, not less intelligent.
The MERCURY RETROGRADE individual is capable of tapping into the collective unconscious and of perceiving knowledge from prior times. This process is unconscious. Because you know more than you can consciously communicate, frustration may set in. You may become preoccupied with the form of your ideas, creating barriers to the essence of your knowledge.
Creative outlets that require non-verbal communication, such as music and painting, are an excellent means of expression for MERCURY RETROGRADE. Many of our musical geniuses have MERCURY RETROGRADE. History is also a natural outlet.
MERCURY RETROGRADE KARMA: Relationships – with a tendency to react to others “as if” they symbolize persons from the past.

From: http://www.pathwaytoascension.com/astrology/lesson5.html

posted May 27, 2015 03:06 AM            

PLUTO RETROGRADE – turns its transformative energy even more deeply into the superconsciousness, bringing about an inner illumination long before you are able to give it expression in the outer world. PLUTO RETROGRADE indicates a carry-over of psychic powers from previous lifetimes. These powers are to be used in constructive ways only. You will feel the struggle humanity is going through within yourself—humanity’s struggle is your struggle. You are aware of and feel responsible for lifting your conscious awareness so that the consciousness of humanity can be thereby lifted.
PLUTO RETROGRADE KARMA – A karmic debt is owned to humanity stemming from the age indicated by the sign in which PLUTO is located. This debt is to be paid through selfless service to humanity. Tremendous spiritual growth is possible; you have the opportunity to rise above the karma of the human race and step off the wheel of rebirth. PLUTO RETROGRADE joins NEPTUNE RETROGRADE in asking that you live in the world, while remaining separate from it.
PARENTS – you will need to understand the psychic powers your child may naturally demonstrate and strive not to stifle them. Instead, help your child use them for constructive purposes while making no big deal over them. They are natural for your child; treat your child as you would any other child.
(PRECESSION OF AGES found in Lesson 4 will reveal the time of the Age indicated by the sign location of your PLUTO RETROGRADE.)

Psychic... I don't know. I do experience "impressions" though. Intuition has been strong throughout the life. Mental pictures have come true occasionally.
I'm a bit of a skeptic about "special powers" though. If one human has this, then I believe all should. However, I FEEL universal struggles very strongly. Suffering in Africa is suffering in Scotland, suffering in Germany is suffering in America.
I believe suffering is universal, and that we all have a responsibility to ease suffering wherever we encounter it.

That might sound soap-boxy - it is a standard I hold myself to, but I'm not going to lie, I truly think this is the only way we will ever achieve harmony and an end to needless suffering (some is necessary, but most is caused by humans living selfishly and abusively to others). If more people focused on easing suffering, as opposed to fulfilling the needs of "I and mine", then there would be less suffering overall.

I see the world is our real family, animals, trees, mountains, sea, included!

posted May 27, 2015 04:53 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Agree with all you said...
Love NN activity, one of my favorite ppl has so much on my NN, Sun/Mars/Merc/Karma/Dejanira in my NN!!

I also like the Merc/AC connection, very good for communication and getting along in general. I also like semi-sextile aspect to. It's not major but it's a nice blending feeling, it's mild but still there.

Virgo moon is rare indeed, I meet so few! We are odd balls to because virgo is such a unique placement for the moon.

---

posted May 27, 2015 05:59 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
I don't know how reliable internet sources are, but one states that the energies of the planet and turned inwards and become more subjective. And that the native may carry memories of past lives into this life?

---

I agree that the energy becomes more subjective and is "turned inward".
Personally I'm not even convinced about past lives, so naturally I have no memories of them (if they do exist).

quote:

---

I do go through long periods in my mind, and without contact with others, by choice. It's like of like active, mental meditation. I feel energised after being lost in my mind.

---

I can relate.

quote:

---

I also have conversations with myself in my head all the time. Covering most every possible scenerio/outcome of an event. I try not to do this so much though, as it can lead to catatrophising!

---

Again, I can relate, but my thought process tends to be really confusing and generally I avoid "thinking" to myself, and would rather write down anything that's on my mind (works wonders to straighten things up) *or* talk out loud.

quote:

---

I work stuff out predominantly alone? I don't often ask anyone what they think of something, unless I'm TRULY stumped and have exhausted every possible;e avenue in solitude.

---

Yes, although my Gemini ASC/SN often feels the need to "share", but again, my preferred way of sharing is through writing, as in communicating with someone via emails or instant messaging rather than talking to them using the voice (I have trouble being "authentic" using my voice, when it comes to personal issues).

quote:

---

Perhaps we could say MERCURY Retro can be a bit of an introvert?
A quiet thinker? (as opposed to outloud)
An independent thinker perhaps?

---

Ditto.
Not sure this can apply to all retro Mercuries, but it definitely applies to me.

quote:

---

I got rid of my TV 11 years ago, stopped reading newspapers, magazines, and newsites. And I severely filter and limit films. If I am getting an uneasy feeling that i am being manipulated (usually within the first half hour of a film), then I switch it off.
As I have had this feeling with around 90% of films I have seen in the cinema, I have walked out of many films. I refuse to support anything that attempts to close my mind and mould it to an agenda.

Maybe this is MERCURY Retro?

---

I don't think this is Mercury Rx by itself, no. Probably more of an AQUA Mercury Rx, plus Aqua Sun.
I find it very interesting, that you've decided to do that. In a way, I wish I could do the same, but I enjoy "entertainment" a little too much (Moon in 5H?).
However I definitely always keep my critical mind alert when watching movies or hearing songs, and reading news... (I don't read news that much anyway).

I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts about this...

quote:

---

Pluto Retro, I have no idea. And this one is probably really important for me to figure, with him being in stellium, parallel MOON, and co-ruling my chart.

---

Yeah, I have Pluto contra-parallel Moon, and it's also part of a stellium (and the final dispositor of that stellium). However mine isn't retro, so it's a bit difficult for me to grasp that energy.

However the descriptions on Cafeastrology seem rather accurate, what do you think?

quote:

---

People with Pluto retrograde in their birth charts may be more inclined to fear being controlled, manipulated, or betrayed by others than those with Pluto direct. There may be a tendency to keep these fears to themselves, as exposing them makes them feel more vulnerable. They don't as readily let others know their desire for power or control, and might not be in touch with this desire a lot of the time.

---

And here's Saturn:

quote:

---

There can be more than usual experiences of guilt and self-doubt when Saturn is retrograde in the birth chart. Fears are internalized and they might put on a brave front so that others don't see them as vulnerable. There can also be a strong fear of letting others down or of not filling their responsibilities - essentially of making poor choices. Sometimes the childhood was not very disciplined or orderly. In some ways, having Saturn retrograde in the chart tends to function much like a strong Uranus, where the native is uncomfortable with an overly orderly or disciplined life. People born with Saturn retrograde might feel especially anxious or nervous when they are in situations that call for protocol, etiquette, or specific sets of standards and rules.

---

posted May 27, 2015 06:18 AM            

It seems that the retrograde motion somewhat reverses the direction of the energy, or even polarises it, leading to a conflict in inward-outward expression, or in creating oppositional energy to the natural energy of the planet.

posted May 27, 2015 06:43 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Does any of this fit for you Doux?

---

Yep, seems to fit.
I definitely often feel (or have felt) less intelligent and even "dumb" because I have trouble with hard facts and my thinking tends to be really, well, "weird".

Sometimes, I need more time than others to understand something that's rather "simple", and other times, I feel like I can intuitively understand something complex that others can't seem to grasp even with a thorough explanation.

I have trouble verbalizing my thoughts as well, and am much better at writing than speaking.

posted May 27, 2015 06:47 AM            

It seems to be an evolved Aqua thing, the true "humanitarian", and someone who cares about nature and the Earth in general.
Perhaps also a Cancer NN thing?

posted May 27, 2015 07:08 AM            

Lunar Virgos are indeed quite the oddballs, haha. I've known a few, and honestly I think there's only one or maybe two Virgo Moons I didn't like (one was really critical and the stereotypical 'nag' and the other I don't know personally but have heard some negative things about them, coming from a trusted source).

posted May 27, 2015 08:42 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:

And here's Saturn:

quote:
There can be more than usual experiences of guilt and self-doubt when Saturn is retrograde in the birth chart. Fears are internalized and they might put on a brave front so that others don't see them as vulnerable. There can also be a strong fear of letting others down or of not filling their responsibilities - essentially of making poor choices. Sometimes the childhood was not very disciplined or orderly. In some ways, having Saturn retrograde in the chart tends to function much like a strong Uranus, where the native is uncomfortable with an overly orderly or disciplined life. People born with Saturn retrograde might feel especially anxious or nervous when they are in situations that call for protocol, etiquette, or specific sets of standards and rules.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/retrogradesinthenatalchart.html

It seems that the retrograde motion somewhat reverses the direction of the energy, or even polarises it, leading to a conflict in inward-outward expression, or in creating oppositional energy to the natural energy of the planet.

OK, I think I probably said what was being said, but writing helps to get it straight in my mind.

---

I agree with most of what was said regarding Saturn rx...except I want so desperately the orderly or structured life I didn't have as a child. It seems no matter how hard I try it's out of my grasp. I have 2 children with disabilities that make things very hard because you never know what's going to happen next! Lol

posted May 27, 2015 09:14 AM            

Thanks for sharing.

Sorry to hear about your struggles with Saturn Rx in the 10H...

You're strong though, and you keep fighting the good fight, that's admirable.

I have a question:

Did you (or do you) struggle with feeling incompetent, or like you wouldn't be able to accomplish what was needed of you?

posted May 27, 2015 09:25 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Dear Olgatheo,

The Pluto book is excellent reading, I have been enjoying it very much.
It provides clear and indepth descriptions, and I love the pieces of poetry throughout.

The only thing is, that I am struggling to relate it to my own chart.

When I read Libra Sun/ASC (I am ASC) it places Pluto in the 4th house, however transit Pluto is in my 3rd.

And when I read Aquarius Sun/ASC (I am Sun), it puts transit Pluto in my 12th house.

I am probably missing something!

Although the descriptions of Pluto in Capricorn are helpful anyway, as t.Pluto is retrograding/conjuncting my VENUS in Capricorn, and activating my SOUTH NODE and a square to 1st house stellium. So I can join some dots!

This by no means invalidates the book, like I said, I am enjoying it very much. I relate very much to Pluto and all he stands for, so the book is very interesting to me anyway.

Thank you again for being so kind to share this with us!

---

Your not missing anything, it's just that your AC is so deep into libra that your house system is not the typical "libra AC" house system.
Pluto will be in your 4th once it gets into the higher degrees of cap, so read it as something you will be looking forward to, as it's about to hit you but has not yet.

posted May 27, 2015 09:29 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Gabby

Thanks for sharing.

Sorry to hear about your struggles with Saturn Rx in the 10H...

You're strong though, and you keep fighting the good fight, that's admirable.

I have a question:

Did you (or do you) struggle with feeling incompetent, or like you wouldn't be able to accomplish what was needed of you?

---

posted May 27, 2015 02:37 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
And here's Saturn:

[QUOTE]There can be more than usual experiences of guilt and self-doubt when Saturn is retrograde in the birth chart. Fears are internalized and they might put on a brave front so that others don't see them as vulnerable. There can also be a strong fear of letting others down or of not filling their responsibilities - essentially of making poor choices. Sometimes the childhood was not very disciplined or orderly. In some ways, having Saturn retrograde in the chart tends to function much like a strong Uranus, where the native is uncomfortable with an overly orderly or disciplined life. People born with Saturn retrograde might feel especially anxious or nervous when they are in situations that call for protocol, etiquette, or specific sets of standards and rules.

---

[/QUOTE]

A critical mind is good Doux.

I took my decision because I wasn't convinced, and I am still not convinced that I couldn't be affected subconsciously.

I am very suspicious of the media.

IMO there are clear agendas to distort perceptions of what a man is and what a woman is, the subsequently, what love and relating are.

Sure it's possible to see pass the BS when it's obviously BS. But I worry about when it is not, when only on relflection I notice that I had picked something up, and it affected my thinking/feeling/behaving.

So I just don't risk it.

I need to know I am being authentic. I don't know what I am if I am not. It took a long time and a lot of struggle for me to find who I was. I'm not offering it up to the same societal distortions that took it from me.

Sexual abuse, and rape is glorified and sensationalised in the media all the time.
That is only one example.

Not everyone will need to be as ruthless as I have, I guess. I just cannot be healthy AND exposed to the media.

posted May 27, 2015 02:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
Your not missing anything, it's just that your AC is so deep into libra that your house system is not the typical "libra AC" house system.
Pluto will be in your 4th once it gets into the higher degrees of cap, so read it as something you will be looking forward to, as it's about to hit you but has not yet.

Are you guys talking about the Pluto email Doux sent us or something else, you said it's a book your reading?

---

Oh, I see. Thank you for explaining Gabby.

posted May 27, 2015 02:42 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
I like your view about human suffering, Voix.

It seems to be an evolved Aqua thing, the true "humanitarian", and someone who cares about nature and the Earth in general.
Perhaps also a Cancer NN thing?

While I can intellectually, and perhaps "morally", understand and accept that view, I find it hard to truly feel it in my heart. I think I'm still too self-absorbed and detail-oriented to truly feel like we humans are all inter-connected.

---

Yes, I guess it could be both.

My concern for many things has grown over the years. The SATURN return initiated a lot of growth in my beliefs and values.

posted May 28, 2015 12:09 PM            

I feel the same way... *big hug*
You're awesome though, don't forget that.

Voix,

Thanks for explaining.
Hmm, that makes sense to me...
I also dislike many of the things the media portrays (especially these days).
So much needless nudity and sexualization / objectification. It makes me sick. The worst part is that many people don't see anything wrong with it, and when you try to tell them your POV, they act offended / revolted because, "it's just pictures / entertainment".
*sigh*

posted May 28, 2015 02:24 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doux Rêve:
Gabby,

I feel the same way... *big hug*
You're awesome though, don't forget that.

Voix,

Thanks for explaining.
Hmm, that makes sense to me...
I also dislike many of the things the media portrays (especially these days).
So much needless nudity and sexualization / objectification. It makes me sick. The worst part is that many people don't see anything wrong with it, and when you try to tell them your POV, they act offended / revolted because, "it's just pictures / entertainment".
*sigh*

Hopefully my Saturn return will give me a healthy (and needed) kick in the butt so I'll get moving (though I hope to start moving before that.. but yeah)!

---

posted May 28, 2015 10:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
Dear Olgatheo,

The Pluto book is excellent reading, I have been enjoying it very much.
It provides clear and indepth descriptions, and I love the pieces of poetry throughout.

The only thing is, that I am struggling to relate it to my own chart.

When I read Libra Sun/ASC (I am ASC) it places Pluto in the 4th house, however transit Pluto is in my 3rd.
And when I read Aquarius Sun/ASC (I am Sun), it puts transit Pluto in my 12th house.
I am probably missing something!
Although the descriptions of Pluto in Capricorn are helpful
anyway, as t.Pluto is retrograding/conjuncting my VENUS in Capricorn, and activating my SOUTH NODE and a square to 1st house stellium. So I can join some dots!
This by no means invalidates the book, like I said, I am enjoying it very much. I relate very much to Pluto and all he stands for, so the book is very interesting to me anyway.
Thank you again for being so kind to share this with us!

---

It was my pleasure ! Glad you liked it . Pluto is complex I can relate it's the aspects you need to research to understand it more ! The author uses equal house system !
I would also read Pluto in the 3 rd since it's your transit at the moment ! And Pluto in the 2nd + 7th cause of your Venus transit !
If you want I can recommend some Pluto books ?!!!