posted August 08, 2015 02:43 AM            

12H MOON conjunct NEPTUNE (0°) along my 7C, opposite my (12H) VENUS (1°).

tCHIRON conjunct my TARDIS (0°) (Hah!)

The tASC is 0° conjunct his CHIRON, and tAMOR rises on the chart, near it. tASC/tAMOR=Aries Point. That's quite something!

4H tEROS conjunct tSUN (1°) (in his 8H), and trine the 8H NYMPHE, (0°-1°). Very nice.

tVERTEX conjunct tDSC. (0°) Expected that one.

Looks like we've got a Yod, too: 1H tKARMA the apex of 8H tNYMPHE and 6H tVALENTINE. Wooow. That's something. 0°-1°.

Then we've got that tSATURN opposite the tARTEMIS-tPSYCHE ... (0°-2°)

And I see now that tPLUTO is opposite tSUN-tEROS. (0°) Ahhhh. Okay.

Something beautiful about tISIS conjunct tVENUS (0°) and tOSIRIS conjunct tJUNO (0°), as well. The Midpoint, is our composite SUN on REGULUS. The tJUNO/tOSIRIS is conjunct our composite VENUS-JUPITER, 0°, and the cSUN by 2°. That's pretty powerful! And tJUPITER is with the tISIS-tVENUS, too. Wow.

I think the tSNODE-tAMOR rising, conjunct his ATROPOS and opposite my SATURN-JUNO-ALMA says quite a lot, too.

posted August 08, 2015 06:30 AM              

What appears to be "asexuality" can in fact be something else (e.g. repression mechanisms, not having discovered one's sexuality yet, etc). Asexuality (the total lack or very diminished libido and interest in sex) is rare; it is traditionally associated with schizotypal conditions, or autism for instance, and schizotypal personalities, where the libido, especially the interest in interactions with other people, is very low (as a consequence of the general lack of alter-interest, they are insular conditions or personalities). It doesn't mean all asexuals are within this spectrum, just an example when genuine asexuality occurs.

What defines "being asexual" is having a very diminished desire/libido, being single, celibate, abstinent, married, a virgin or not, has nothing to do with it. It's a faux term anyway, in reality no individual with sexual organs is asexual, so practically it doesn't exist. There is a sexual dynamics happening (in the background) in all cases.

A person who is still a virgin cannot realistically estimate the intensity of their libido. (a big part of their sexuality is in sleeping beauty phase)

The decision to loose one's virginity or to be an abstinent, for instance, doesn't depend on sexuality (libido or sexual interest in other people), but other important factors such as: wanting to do it in special conditions- e.g. with someone one loves, at a particular moment (when one is married e.g.), lacking a social/dating life, religious reasons etc. If some people "loose their virginity" before others it certainly doesn't mean they have a higher libido or because they are more sexually attracted to people (than those who are still virgins) and in an indiscriminate way.

------------------
I seem to have loved you in numberless forms...

AstroMandala

posted August 08, 2015 08:07 AM              

your post resonates strongly with me. Though I must admit I do not know how asexuality is defined in official clinical terms, but your explanation makes sense to me.

While I donīt think this is always the case (and maybe there ARE really asexual people, but personally subjectively I imagine those people to experience a lack of sexual desire or even more so attraction to another person - then again, there might be a range, a spectre involved. but anyway I am a layman, so I donīt really know anything. ).

Well I lost my thread. lol
So start again.

I do think my avoidance of sexual relationships or romantic relationships in general, has much more to do with my psychological setup than a real asexuality (though I did wonder about that for a time, in which category I would fall).

However I think I fall into the category "head-in-the-sand-and-avoid".

Abstinence must have seemed just easier than addressing my insecurities, fears, trustissues etc.
Addressing all of that would have meant I would need to make a change, and letting things as they were and not "go there" was sort of more comfortable.
And I was pretty good at sublimating things (though honestly? Sex is a fascinating subject to me. Theoretically at least), supression and the like.
maybe it comes with the Neptune, i donīt know.

however I find it intriguing to see how some asteroids are placed in my chart.

EROS in 8th house EXACTLY conjunct Vertex and on an axis with Sun/Moon-mp exact. my PAN is there as well. And yes SAME degree.

Eros is actually at 20°59 Cancer, and the others are at 21 Cancer. I tend to take both Sabians into account

A Famous Singer Is Proving Her Virtuosity During An Operatic Performance
(of course my Eros would fall on a musical sabian )

A Young Woman Awaiting A Sailboat
(too much waiting, too little action. )

Then there is CUPIDO in my 8th house, too, but in Leo, and it trines my Chiron on 20-Aries and also my Proserpina on 21 Sagittarius.
Well let`s not get into the Proserpina-business for now, but it always struck me that my Cupido is so tigthly trine my Chiron in 4th house: 7 minutes of orb.

With the Sabians

Zuni Indians Perform A Ritual To The Sun

A Pugilist Enters The Ring
(always with the fighting. )

And this Cupido opposes

Atropos (6 minutes of orb) on 19 Aquarius
A Large White Dove Bearing A Message

- so it seems the goddess of the inescapable has a message to deliver to me.

More resignatively it is also opposing

Dionysos by 17 minutes (why are these aspects so exact?) on 20 Aquarius

A Disappointed And Disillusioned Woman Courageously Faces A Seemingly Empty Life
- I guess that`s me, frustrating symbol isn`t it?

And then there is Draco CUPIDO on 9 Sagittarius conjunct tropical Neptune by 11 minutes on the same degree and actually my mean North Node is on that very degree itself, with the Tru one on 10 Sagittarius
Well, Draco Cupido is conjunct True NN by just 24 minuts of orb, too. Again clearly under one degree

A Theatrical Representation Of A Golden-Haired Goddess Of Opportuinity

and

In The Left Section Of An Archaic Temple, A Lamp Burns In A Container Shaped Like A Human Body

Isn`t it peculiar that the future oriented, developmental (Draco) version of my Cupido is snuggling so tightly to my NN? Considering my celibacy at least?

In fact this Draco Cupido is also just 2 degrees of ASC-LUST:

And that is the next thing, why is LUST conjunct my ASC with just 42 minutes of arc?
And conjunct my Mars by only 2°32, too?

And Draco LUST on 27°33 Pisces, conjunct tropical ARTEMIS (!) by 23 minutes.

Sabian:
A Fertile Garden Under The Full Moon Reveals A Variety Of Full-Grown Vegetables

it`s a peculiar set up,

and there is Draco ARTEMIS in the 8th house conjunct tropical Saturn by only 3 minutes.

Saturn:
THE SEED GROWS INTO KNOWLEDGE AND LIFE
You may feel that you are not growing or developing properly, maybe dissatisfied at your perceived failings. Things take time to develop and, rather than being rushed, need to be nurtured to develop in their own time. It is important to start small and grow.
Small and steady beginnings can lead to a beautiful flowering. Warning against grabbing for the fast dollar. Pregnancy, childbirth and growing up. Embryonic cells. The giving and receiving of lessons.

Artemis
A HEN IS SCRATCHING FOR HER CHICKS
The essential need for nourishment must be satisfied in order to proceed in life. There are those around you who also depend on your ability to provide nourishment - both the literal - food, and the symbolic, spiritual caring. Getting down to business and finding what nourishes will bring improvement and growth.
Searching for sustenance. Being devoted to the nurturing of small beginnings. Concern for the essential, small details. Repetitive cycles of things that have to be done.

posted August 08, 2015 08:44 AM              

On the other hand, it is my belief one cannot fully evaluate their libido unless they have an active sex life in the best conditions for them. If someone values monogamy, the best monogamous relationship (with a compatible attractive partner) will show you the degree of your libido. Virgins can hardly evaluate the degree of their libido or the extent of their sexuality.

Libidos vary from high (let's say daily) to low (let's say monthly) sexual needs, but only an active sex life makes one able to evaluate the intensity of their libido.

Most people I know who are still virgins or were virgins until later in life did so for the reasons you describe: higher defensive mechanisms (unfortunately, after a certain threshold, those don't protect us from certain losses, disillusionment or heartbreak inherent to love life), wanting to do it with someone special/the real deal, for reasons dealing with insecurities (physical or psychological) not yet faced and integrated. What's important, for best results, is for this to happen when one is ready for it and with the right person

posted August 08, 2015 10:05 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Ceri, what you describe is common, and I think many people who wonder if they are demisexual or even asexual (two terms I have issues with, by this I mean they are arbitrary defined and assigned sometimes) are actually dealing with psychological defensive mechanisms rather than purely sexual reasons. Defensive mechanisms are totally natural and they vary among people. They can be low, average or above average. They are at least partially unconscious and higher ones will make someone be more sexually discriminate, as a normal consequence, either unconsciously (by feeling the desire only when certain conditions are met) or they can be perfectly aware of them (consciously).

On the other hand, it is my belief one cannot fully evaluate their libido unless they have an active sex life in the best conditions for them. If someone values monogamy, the best monogamous relationship (with a compatible attractive partner) will show you the degree of your libido. Virgins can hardly evaluate the degree of their libido or the extent of their sexuality.

Libidos vary from high (let's say daily) to low (let's say monthly) sexual needs, but only an active sex life makes one able to evaluate the intensity of their libido.

Most people I know who are still virgins or were virgins until later in life did so for the reasons you describe: higher defensive mechanisms (unfortunately, after a certain threshold, those don't protect us from certain losses, disillusionment or heartbreak inherent to love life), wanting to do it with someone special/the real deal, for reasons dealing with insecurities (physical or psychological) not yet faced and integrated. What's important, for best results, is for this to happen when one is ready for it and with the right person

There's also the question: how active my social (dating, as consequence) life is? If we live in semi-isolation, it's hardly the right moment to evaluate relational/sexual issues (apart from asking oneself what my contribution to this isolation is)

---

posted August 08, 2015 12:35 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Can you be asexual for several years and then sort of "change"?

---

Yes. There's a reason why it's a spectrum. Some aces are purely asexual but very romantic; others are both asexual and aromantic (no romantic attraction, either). Others will have 'sexual periods' and longer 'asexual periods'. There might be sexual interest in one person after a deep emotional relationship is established, but if that relationship ends, it's unlikely the individual will now seek sexual relationships. They're more likely to return to the status quo of 'being asexual'.

posted August 08, 2015 12:43 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aubyanne:

It's a very complicated thing;

---

Yes, that is how it starts feeling to me, too.

Quite frankly, aren`t we in danger of overcomplicating things a little?
I get that there is a spectrum involved, but isn`t that just life in general?

posted August 08, 2015 12:49 PM              

thank you for your thoughts.

I can only speak for myself of course, and for my personal case your asessment is spot on. I think so at least.

" Virgins can hardly evaluate the degree of their libido or the extent of their sexuality."
I agree with that, at least to the major part.

"unfortunately, after a certain threshold, those don't protect us from certain losses, disillusionment or heartbreak inherent to love life"
That`s very true, for me at least. Quite a tough lesson I had to learn.
Hiding away somehow did not represent a resolution for everything.
Or anything.

"There's also the question: how active my social (dating, as consequence) life is? If we live in semi-isolation, it's hardly the right moment to evaluate relational/sexual issues"
Certainly not. I mean how could one evaluate relational issues when there is no relationship.
Maybe from a psychological personal perspective, intra-personal, but not inter-personal.

posted August 08, 2015 12:49 PM              

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia:
Ceri, is he the only one who made you feel this way?

---

posted August 08, 2015 01:05 PM              

Well every attraction or feeling is a little different. It is never entirely the same.

But well I have to go far back in my memory, and while he certainly crashed down my defenses like noone else, there were others before.

Well as I said I am probably neither asexual nor demisexual, just insecure, scared and trying to save myself emotional pain (which does not work that way. I know that).

But yes I have been attracted to others before (not that many), but usually I have cut that off pretty quickly (maybe a form of dissociation? I donīt know.), as I clearly did not know how to handle it and did not wany any complications in my life. or heartbreak.

The degrees of intensity also varied, and in relation to him, I seem to be unable to "cut it off", which intrigues me, as I have almost always been able to do that (at least from a certain age on; the experience of heartbreak can do that, making someone go into survival-mode, and what I learned was that this can even happen without a real relationship underlying it. I almost died back then, and I donīt mean only metaphorically, and I donīt quite want to learn how much worse it could have gotten, if it had been a real relationship. Of course I was overly dramatic, being 17 and all. *shaking head* it puzzles me how something so un-real could have such real emotional consequences. it`s scary actually).

Having said that however, those attractions cannot have been that strong or intense, they apparently did not urge me to make changes to my mindset, behaviour or whatever.

posted August 08, 2015 01:15 PM            

I hope the pain of that heartbreak has gone away by now...

I have a question. Of course, you don't have to answer if it's too uncomfortable. How do you feel about the possibility of dying a virgin?

posted August 08, 2015 01:22 PM            

Diana is conjunct my North Node and the composite IC with my partner and I (we're about to move to the woods full time...)

Artemis is conjunct our composite Ascendant, and natally he has Artemis conjunct his MC, and therefore two degrees shy of my MC as well, and conjunct his Mars--all of which squares my Pluto...

So far our relationship is very verrry sexual! For the books.. I guess the Mars Pluto square is taking care of that! -- among other things...

posted August 08, 2015 01:35 PM            

While it's true that we presume that a large per centage of the ace population would also be on the schizophrenic spectrum -- or autism spectrum -- it's turning out that this isn't the case. The numbers are pretty randomly selected, as it were. Though this doesn't include grey-aces, cupios, and so on. It's straight-up, 100% asexuals. Curiously, the grey-aces, cupios and more variable asexuals do tend to be bouncing along the spectrums. We don't know why yet. I suspect it has something to do with oxytocin production, the period in which its active (its duration) and the fact that plateau stages seem to be longer in aces than the usual sexual individual. But it's all notes and hypothesis at this point.

I'll say it's intriguing that my boyfriend and I are both asexual schizoids. I've often suspected an involvement of the schizophrenic spectrum (negative symptomology) presenting. But the research is indicating this is only a fraction of the greater whole. Perhaps we're the cupios. Most other cupios are more scientifically and curiosity-driven to explore sex; it has to be for a purpose rather than physical gratification. Though, for me, with my boyfriend, I found a psychological root. That's been very interesting.

Now, you mention 'repression'. I think what you're after is sexual anorexia, which was first introduced by Patrick Carnes in the latter '80s. His work has been seminal and influential in our understanding that sexual addiction is a spectrum, rather than merely what we see as outward behaviour. As such, I've found that sexual anorexia often accompanies other anorexias, and they can act in conjunction, or mutually exclude each other. And, as you'd expect, a lot of the same causes and roots apply.

When an 'ace's' asexuality is secondary -- it appears after a trauma, I'm far less likely to assume it's akin to primary asexuality, which is genetic, or appears very early in life. When it's secondary, the first thing I do is delve deeply into the psychological history -- especially the family history. I look for the red-flag markers of sexual anorexia. If, upon healing, they still never quite enjoy sex (and they've been educated in proper techniques to maximise enjoyment) or possess the desire for it -- then you've likely got yourself a true ace. The trauma was just a 'red herring'; a confounding variable that confused the end results. This happens, too.

It's primary aces that can find themselves the most psychologically damaged, however, as we live in a world of intense sexual values -- and mixed ones, at that! Nearly in the same breath, a woman is made to be sexy AND to be a 'good girl'. Gah! Society fills our heads with these contradictions, and it's led to nothing good!

In my own experience, I've run the gamut; I started primary, but nobody understood a thing about asexuality in the early '80s. Then I developed a sex addiction, almost overnight from age 7 to 12 (compulsive masturbation). These were the years I was being abused by my older cousin. My mother worked diligently with me to overcome the addiction. (We were successful; for awhile in my 20s, I thought, a bit TOO successful, given that I never returned to the pattern or behaviour.) At age 13, the memories that had somehow been repressed came fully to the fore. I was already schizoid at that point, or getting there, for which the diagnosis came at age 19.

Some of that trauma came from being actively pursued by a homicidal maniac -- romantic, mind you -- in high school, and maligned and bullied by my then ex-boyfriend (first boyfriend, at age 16) who informed the school of my frigidity, explaining his reason for dumping me was that I didn't 'put out like normal'.

Well, he was right about that. I didn't. While the other girls were exploring things with boys (and other girls, as it is more a matter of convenience that curious sexual children to explore with the same sex, rather than harbinger of homosexuality and quite natural; there's really no direct link between one later discovering themselves homosexual and early same-sex explorations) I was often trying to find ways to get OUT of having to do these 'explorations'.

So I was separate from the other girls, in most cases. By age 11, they wanted to chat about boys, not books. They cared about what it would be like to have sex, and I was content to study it. I confused people, with my encyclopaedic knowledge of sexuality, but my lack of desire to actually apply that knowledge.

In hindsight, it was extremely confusing to me. Fortunately, my mother, being similar, essentially never made me feel out of place. So I grew up with this strange notion in my head that 'when I was old enough' I would become sexual.

... but it never happened.

Then I thought, once I've healed, I'll become sexual.

... that's not happening, either.

Asexuality is, definitely, a spectrum, and we're just at the start of truly understanding all of its nuances. Especially for mixed cases (such as myself) where childhood sex abuse was a factor, and it muddies the waters, confounding our results. We can still be primary aces, but with that to contend with, it takes deeper study and more careful evaluation of all factors and behaviour.

posted August 08, 2015 01:40 PM              

>"I hope the pain of that heartbreak has gone away by now..."

Does it ever really?

Yes, yes, it did. but my heart still remembers, there are scars. And that might be the problem.

"How do you feel about the possibility of dying a virgin?"
I`ve been thinking about that myself actually, and it doesn`t feel right to me. MOre like a waste or maybe a missed opportunity for a physical, romantic, intimate, sexual, emotional experience and connection, out of selfdenial and fear.

Too honest for you?
For me it is not so hard to talk about it, interestingly, and well yes I DO feel like I am possibly missing out on something.

posted August 08, 2015 01:47 PM            

quote:

---

Too honest for you?

---

Can I suggest astro something?
Prudentia 747
Virginia 50
P conjunct my Sun 0, V conjunct NN 0, works for me I checked my Diana and it's exactly conjunct Madhatter. Does that make me crazy spinster material?

posted August 08, 2015 01:53 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
On the other hand, it is my belief one cannot fully evaluate their libido unless they have an active sex life in the best conditions for them. If someone values monogamy, the best monogamous relationship (with a compatible attractive partner) will show you the degree of your libido. Virgins can hardly evaluate the degree of their libido or the extent of their sexuality.

Libidos vary from high (let's say daily) to low (let's say monthly) sexual needs, but only an active sex life makes one able to evaluate the intensity of their libido.

---

I agree with this -- with a caveat. We really do need a variety of conditions in which to explore the extent of what's what. And chief among them should be an active sexual life in good conditions.

I always thought that my whole outlook would change. I hoped I'd suddenly become ravenous. Yet, even in the best conditions, nothing has really changed. I'm happier, to be sure. I enjoy the sexual explorations that I do have, and they've become very important to me. But the desire for frequency hasn't changed.

posted August 08, 2015 01:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gabby:
It's just like when you don't eat, at first your ravenous but eventually the hunger goes away. Does that mean you have no appetite? No it means your body has switched into a protective mode and your no longer feeling the pain of not eating.

---

Sort of. In the case of sexual anorexia, yes. Asexuality, on the other hand, is typically used to distinguish the lack of sexual attraction, or desire to engage in sex itself (huge difference there) in the absence of sexual anorexia.

posted August 08, 2015 02:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia:
Can I suggest astro something?
Prudentia 747
Virginia 50
P conjunct my Sun 0, V conjunct NN 0, works for me

---