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Author Topic:   A Group Hug With Linda!
Randall
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posted January 17, 2002 09:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
No one is behind. We are always willing to talk about Canto One (or any other) again.

Did I say that Canto Two was my fave? I will have to eat those words. Canto Three is beyond description. But I will try to hit on a few points. First, I have to share a mini-miracle. Some will think I'm lying, so I hesitated even posting it, but I simply have to share! As I sat here and opened up my copy to page 109 to get the quote I want to end my Post with, I sat the book down and logged on my computer. As I looked down on the page, guess what I saw? One tiny black ant crawling on the page! WOW! I let it crawl on my finger and placed it in another part of the room, so it wouldn't get accidently squashed. What could this mean? It was so incredible to experience! I could be wrong, but I took it to mean that even though some of Gooberz is embellished or even fictional, Linda and the ants is true--sort of like a Sign from the Ant Oversoul that Linda was their friend. And this is the quote I wanted to end my Post with: For Yellow Wax..and the Ants
What is your favorite quote from Canto Three? Those simple words made me cry a river--so well-placed and so eloquently put. For those who have read it, you understand.

In Canto Three, we see more death, but we also see more happiness. Linda bares her Soul to us and allows us inside her personal thoughts and feelings. She shares her experience writing a poem for her church recital, and she also shares her very first poem with us. Linda tells of her puppy Love experiences also. And who could ever forget the ants? Ahhhhhh, the ants...

Canto Three reMINDs me of the movie Ransom with Mel Gibson (and others like it). A truly great film for those watching it for the first time, but a better film for those watching it a second or third time. What do I mean by that? Well, the character development was terrific. It all starts with a seemingly innocent day at an amusement park. But after watching the film the first time, upon the second viewing, we can see that the opening scene is not innocent at all. All of the kidnappers are clearly there at the amusement park. Gooberz is like that (especially Canto Three). After reading Gooberz once and kNOWing the ending, we can see these intricate relationships as they develop more clearly upon the second reading and understand at a deeper level. I'm mainly talking about the Forgotten Melody Linda refers to and both Jerry and Charles. And when I saw what Linda did with her secret stash of ant money hidden by Dado who rhymes with OH, I realized that Linda truly gave us all a special gift with her words that stays with her readers forever.


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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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sweetpeas
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posted January 17, 2002 02:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweetpeas     Edit/Delete Message
if the Resurrection really means what they say and if Jesus truly arose on that first Easter day then why can't she?
if the story of Jesus conquering death is true then why can't Pat rise from the dead too?
Interesting quote for anyone who has ever lost a loved one.
Gooberz reads like a Pulitzer Prize winning book of poetry. No it's 1989 the judges gave that award to New and Collected Poems by Richard Wilber.
How about Gooberz as the Pulitzer Prize winner for best fiction of 1989. No the award went to Breathing Lessons by Anne Tyler.
The reason for this gross injustice is we have no man made awards worthy of your talent Linda.
So we would like to award you with our eternal LOVE now and forever.
I got cold chills when I read about Linda finding the ant money from Dado.I still get a chill thinking about it now.
What Linda did with the money proves once again she was wise for her age or maybe it was just in her blood.
"Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?" Abraham Lincoln

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Pegesus
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posted January 17, 2002 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Pegesus     Edit/Delete Message
I just can't express how much I am enjoying re-reading Goooberz with all of you!!

It is sinking in soooo much more this time.

Sometimes,it feels like I AM Linda when she is telling a story. I know everyone says that about this book but it's still amazing when it happens, you know???

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Virgo Rising
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posted January 17, 2002 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Virgo Rising     Edit/Delete Message
I can't believe I haven't had time to read this Canto yet. As soon as I log off, I'm hittin' the book again. (where did this week go anyway )

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Randall
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posted January 17, 2002 09:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
Well-said, Sweetpeas!

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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Virgo Rising
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posted January 18, 2002 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Virgo Rising     Edit/Delete Message
Alrighty then. I read Canto Three, breezed thru Canto Four and almost kept going!
The most piognant part of this Canto, for me, was the death of her grandfather and the memory of the christmas tree. There had been NO christmas tree until Linda came along. She wasn't even a year old but THAT year there HAD to be a TREE!!! Aren't grandparents the greatest? Mine bought a pony when I was just three. She was VERY pregnant and the foal was mine. I rode him until my feet practically drug the ground. (Got a horse then, but the pony lived out his life on the farm) I still treasure the pictures of me and the little guy when we were the same height.
I was also touched by the use of the 'inheritance' (the ant money).

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Randall
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posted January 20, 2002 03:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
Canto Four and Canto Five are both short, so I will be reading and posting on them early. And Canto Six, is really, really short!

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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Randall
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posted January 20, 2002 03:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
"silly calendar numbers can't interfere
with the destiny of the heart" Page 129

In Canto Four, we see Linda learn more in her progression of religious exploration, as she makes friends with Judith (a Jew) and tries to convert. Not as much sadness in this Canto, although it is a bit heavy on the Heart to see Linda's Love for Bob not to be returned. There is much Linda learns about Judaism that she shares with us (and that she remained adoring of even in her later years). In Canto Four, we even learn of Jesus' earlier incarnation as Abraham! Wow! And the vivid imagery of Aunt Sallie's house and its trappings she creates for us gives Linda a chance to show how expert she is at writing and conveying real sights, sounds, scents, and textures within her readers' imaginations. A born romantic, Linda Loves so deeply and dreams so extravagantly, even with puppy Love, yet she hides her feelings so well. So sentimental and so feeling, little did Linda realize how truly beautiful she was, even with her straight mousey hair and freckled skin. Her quiet insecurities and deep feelings of unworthiness ring home ever so true for each of us as we think about those times in our own Lives. Thanks, Linda, for bearing your Soul to all of us. Somehow, we all feel closer to you for that. While parts of this Canto made me laugh out loud (like her suspicions over that sneaky Holy Spirit ), there is a sadness in that her Nana had no idea of her true feelings for Bob.

"what are these ? oh, I see, ticket stubs
from the golf course the other night
just drop them in the wastebasket over there" Page 133

*sob*

In Canto Five, Linda delves into the mysteries of the Christian Scientists. I can hardly wait!

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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Randall
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posted January 21, 2002 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
In Canto Five, we learn a little about regret over Aunt Sallie not trying to convert Linda into her Faith (Christian Science). But, as Linda said, they are not the proselytizing type.
"there are some
whose spirits need more breaking
and I was surely one of these" Page 137

Still, Linda delved a little deeper into that mysterious mind-over-matter church on her own. She also explored the hidden mysteries of Catholicism. She speaks of her Love for the Catholic Church and her hunger for the secrets hidden within the Vatican walls (like the yellowing copy of the original marriage license for Jesus and Mary Magdalene). Linda briefly mentions her longstanding friendship with a lady named Ruth. I'm not yet certain if this is the Ruth who rhymes with Truth that would be with Linda until near the very end.

But the most important part of the Canto has to do with Lost And Found. Linda loses her precious blue and silver rosary, and we get to share a real miracle with Linda as we witness another example of the transfiguration of levitation. It's the second time of glowing-knowing--there in the midst of the shimmering-shining sparkle of snow diamonds (the first was the smell of sweetpeas with the appearance of the rainbow). On this night, Linda made a vow to her S-elf that if these two miracles, unrelated to one another, were to ever occur both at once, then Life would finally rhyme, and a truly great miracle would take place. These two events remained fused together in Linda's Heart and represented the requirements for a miracle. In retrospect, Linda knew which miracle she was speaking of (although it was, at the time, yet undefined). It, too, was something to do with Lost And Found--something lost long ago.

As for me, I will always be a secret druid and a Brown Owl. Because I k-NOW in my Heart of Hearts that when we are not looking, fish really can swim through the sky and mountains can truly fly.

------------------
"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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Randall
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posted January 21, 2002 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
"his pet name for me was 'chicken'" Page 160

In Canto Six, Linda shares with us tales of her transitory Knights in Shining Armor. We learn of the curse, the blessing, and the Senior Scouts and also why success is always such a failure.

We see Linda's first mention of Goober's Peanuts (very important to the story). We also learn of her druid yardstick for boys (rainbows draped behind their ears). None would measure up. Not until Carousel Bill, of course! And we see her first mention of Bill in this Canto:

"after high school was over

there were no more Knights in any kind of armor
shiny or dull--riding horses or donkeys

except for one
years later

except for just one...

who helped me catch
a bunch of baby druids
though three of them flew away" Page 167

We learn of Linda's failure to get a driver's license and the possible reasons why. And, in this Canto, Linda begins to lose her fascination for Judaism and Catholicism. Linda criticises the Jewish Rabbis who denied Christ and who fooled all the other Jews, and the early Catholic Church that removed astrology and reincarnation from the Bible with their sacrilegious surgeries. She touches upon the careless attitude of the Vatican while Jews "were being tossed into fiery furnaces like so many helpless, struggling ants tossed into flaming Matchstick Forts" (Page 172) and the growing disillusionment she was feeling toward all religions. We can see Linda begin to grow into the fiery Ram she would one day become--a Ram against organized religion and its parallel counterpart--the medical theocracy. Linda seeks an escape from dogma:

"I stumbled on a brighter path, far from the Holy Ghost's invisible wrath
and far from a vengeful god's angry retribution of
'an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth'" Page 173

This leads her to Egyptian Mythology and the Isis-Osiris legend.

"yes, I wondered, at last, on the path of the stars
and there I stayed--and there I remain, through Sun and rain
part-time mystic, and full-time agnostic, guided by Mars

yet..still secret druid
chanting deeper rites
on moonlit nights" Page 173

Canto Seven is a doozy! Linda begins to understand the possibility for physical immortality. I look forward to talking about it. Until then, I'll be waiting at the foot of an old oak tree, trying to make fish swim through the sky, mountains fly, and Life somehow, someway to rhyme...

"now just try to imagine
what it would be like....if I loved you" Carousel Bill to Linda (Page 168)


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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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YIVY
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posted January 22, 2002 01:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YIVY     Edit/Delete Message
How she describes her teen years is something a lot of us identify with. Trying to fit in with the 'crowd', but never really succeding. If we would only realize then what we do now, that fitting in is not all it's cracked up to be.

And the nickname she got, Seabiscuit...and how much it hurt. All Linda did was to try to fit it and look how it backfired. But she never 'gave' in....and saved learning how to spell 'thrill' until she met Bill.

But still earned a reputation despite her convictions....I wonder how many can empathize with that? How many 'nicknames' did we earn for being different....when we were struggling with the 'teens'?

And, yes...the 'truths' she had to 'sneak' in about the catholic church.

Randall....wouldn't you love to see the notes on the 'truths' she never got the chance to 'sneak' to us?

------------------

@~>~~
YIVY
"Witchy Woman"

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Spiritua
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posted January 22, 2002 01:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spiritua     Edit/Delete Message
Once, I was nicknamed "Odour".

The person who started that intended no harm and I forgave her eventually.

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Randall
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posted January 22, 2002 11:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
"I'm an Aries Ms

(I'm glad you asked)

and all Rams were born liberated
from male dominance
or anyone else's dominance..me and Lucy

if you don't believe that
just ask Charlie Brown
or Linus..or Schroder" Page 182

No sadness in Canto Seven, at least not of the teary-eyed kind. Canto Seven takes a different turn and has a deeper Soul-stirring sadness to it--a sadness over how we hurt the Earth and each other, how science and "modern" medicine turn a deaf ear to Truth, and how the illusion of separatism and its loneliness is reflected in the sexes. But amid all the sadness is Hope brought about by Uranus in this Age of Aquarius (and its opposite Sign of Leo). Canto Seven is a sheer pleasure to read. It's chock-full of secrets! Some people put Gooberz down after Canto Seven; they just cannot grasp all the wisdom it holds. That's why this Discussion Group is so important (for those reading it for the first time). We can pick apart those secrets and examine them more closely. Secrets like: Body Temples sans aging and illness, changing Body Temples at will, what I call the Uni-versal Relocation Program, the other Earths in other solar systems, a subtle pondering about Tesla, Shakespeare, Bacon, and Newton, the space alien connection with human evolution (and God the astronaut), and little hints sprinkled here and there throughout.

"no what troubles me is the frequently repeated, further suggestion
that these allegedly highly evolved entities
who explore and search each Planet in space for its possibilities
as a flourishing garden
look upon humans
as we look upon ants

and therefore, feel no more real concern
for us, as individuals--for our personal tribulations
and hurts and fears, or for the pain of our desperate tears
than human beings feel for ants

no more than we feel
for a colony of ants" Page 189

"it may very well be true that these gods
consider us like unto ants
but it may not be true that every god who tests the sod
for seeding--fails to see the pain on a human face
or ignores the pleading..and private needing
of individual human souls
even if we are as ants
to gods gazing down on us--yes, even supposing
this is how we are truly seen
it does not necessarily mean...that we, here on Earth
are looked upon as having no personal worth

it all depends

on how one feels

about ants

does it not ?

I thought this today, and I wondered
how many souls the gods from space have bought
away from anguish
and at what cost
so they would not burn--and how long
it takes human ants..to be taught...to learn" Page 191



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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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Virgo Rising
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posted January 22, 2002 11:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Virgo Rising     Edit/Delete Message
Snow Diamonds....Canto Five...Pg 145

when I was fourteen-going-on
fifteen
I never said I was fourteen
I always said that I was
fourteen-going-on fifteen

nearly every year
from twelve through twenty
I was never any age
but that age, going-on-the-next

I was lingering mistily
in a sort of No Man's Land of years
not belonging
to the one behind--nor yet
to the one ahead

it was like making Time stand still
like floating somewhere, suspended in Space
not any age at all

no age at all

no TIME

........

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Virgo Rising
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posted January 22, 2002 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Virgo Rising     Edit/Delete Message
I wonder how Linda came across the info on the Vatican...ie: the zodiac tiles.... and just how she got involved with Egyptian Myths?

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Randall
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posted January 22, 2002 12:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
The Zodiac tiles are common knowledge, actually. What is not so commonly known is the images of the Zodiac and Planets at the headquarters for the Mormon church!

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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Randall
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posted January 22, 2002 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
I know I've gotten ahead of myself a bit, but I promise I'll stop now and let you all catch up! So, take your time. I just wanted to add a few more quotes from Canto Seven, since this Canto is so important. We now find Linda getting a bit more aggressive in her search for religious Truth:

"could he explain why the Born Again Christians
are so confidently pure, yet so absolutely sure
that the rest of us are not
as they chant their 'Jesus Saves' deliverance mantra
while condemning all those who think differently--to hell
with a courteous, pleasant smile of regret
less like a blessing than an unspoken threat ?" Page 197

We also find her longing for her Twin begin to emerge after the age of twenty and one:

"yes, it takes two Twins
one soul plus one soul--to make a whole

whether those twin souls are riding painted horses
of the same--or a different color
racially--or chronologically--and in some incarnations, sexually
on the Carousel

for, to the Carousel Owner
Who is not spinning

a rose is a rose--a horse is a horse
and a soul is a soul, longing and yearning
and seeking to be whole

as to the Little Prince
his rose was unique in all the world
different from all the other roses--only because
he--alone--had tamed her

yes, they were two of the lucky ones
the Little Prince..and his rose
who discovered the magical formula
for becoming whole and free

the secret

of how to make one 'us'

from a lonely and separated

you and me" Page 196

And the Aquarian promise of racial and sexual harmony:

"when it's all said and done..and also
teaching
that men and women are all sisters under the skin
or the opposite--brothers

for a soul is a soul is a soul, like a rose is a rose is a rose
as everyone knows
and a painted horse is a painted horse, whatever color or sex
it chose
this time around
whatever race or creed--or whatever
chronological or psychological age it is

in the clearer vision of the Carousel Owner

Who is not spinning" Page 193

Even though doubting much of her religious upbringing, Linda maintains her bond with gentle Jesus:

"oh ! Jesus wept

those two sad words

yet, for all of that..strong enough
to conquer the finality
of death

stern

sensitive

strong

but also tenderly compassionate enough
to care for Pat, my Calico cat
the Colorado miners
and the Broadway Magdalenes
all Earth bound riders
on the Carousel of Life

and even care for me" Page 205

Canto Seven is the first mention of a Carousel (other than an earlier reference to Carousel Bill), and it leads us into Part Two of Gooberz entitled simply CAROUSEL. Well, Knowflakes, we are one-third of the way through the Cantos! Yay!! The best is yet to come!!!

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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sweetpeas
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posted January 22, 2002 03:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweetpeas     Edit/Delete Message
When I picked up my book to start reading today it finally hit me Linda was gone.
She decided to leave us on Oct.21,1995.
That is almost seven years ago.
My heart was filled with SADNESS.All the secrets she promised to pass along in later books gone forever?
I started reading Canto Four and my heart started swelling with GLADNESS.
SHE DID NOT LEAVE! SHE IS STILL HERE LIVING IN ALL OF OUR HEARTS!
Maybe all the secrets she hinted at are just hidden in her words. She was here on this earth to teach us her wisdom but she never said she would spoonfeed it to us.
We have to learn it on our own.
She helped us take off the training wheels. We have to learn to hold our own balance.
The discovery that Jesus in an earlier incarnation was Moses' ancestor Abraham is definitely food for thought.
Who is responsible for the Original Sin?
Linda teaches us to be tolerant of others convictions. A lesson from the wise child we still need to practice today.
Linda has taught us so many lessons so far we should of started a thread to keep track of them.
Oh and what about Aunt Sallie and Uncle George's house in Indianapolis,Indiana.
Linda gives such a beautiful discription of the house I could almost hear my footsteps as I walked from room to room.
I work in Indianapolis. If anyone knows the address of this house let me know.I will go and see if it is still there.
It has probally been torn down to make room for a Walmart Super Center.
Canto Five is so beautiful.
We grieve along with Linda at the funeral of the gentle sister in the soft blue robe.
Our heart goes out to her as she searches for her lost blue and silver rosary the gentle sister gave her.
You can feel the tears freezing to her cheeks.
THE LOST HAS BEEN FOUND!
You know the durids found it and put it at the foot of an oak tree where she would be sure to find it.
Mary Alice,where-ever/who-ever you are I HOPE YOUR HAIR IS CURLY!!!!!!!!!
P.S. ONCE A BROWN OWL ALWAYS A BROWN OWL!

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Randall
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posted January 22, 2002 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
Those words about hoping her hair is curly and once a Brown Owl always a Brown Owl brought tears to my eyes. Thank you, for sharing such beautiful words with us Snowpeas.

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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gooberlily
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posted January 23, 2002 01:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gooberlily     Edit/Delete Message
I am ready to join in the discussion, I'm sorry for bumping in here...which Canto are we up to? Seven?

I hope you get the soon for a copy of Gooberz Spiritua, I'd send you mine, if you wouldn't mind the fact that the book is virtually tattooed with my own scribblings. If you need the book, I will part with it

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Randall
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posted January 23, 2002 11:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
Technically, we are on Canto Four (seven days for each). I just got carried away. But we would be perfectly willing to talk about Canto One or any others. No formal structure needed with this timeless book!

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"It is never too late to become what you might have been." George Eliot

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sweetpeas
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posted January 23, 2002 12:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweetpeas     Edit/Delete Message
AMEN!

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Spiritua
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posted January 23, 2002 10:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spiritua     Edit/Delete Message
Things have changed. I will have enough money shortly. I was only afraid that we wouldn't be able to talk about previous cantos. Now that I k-NOW we can, I am not worried. Gooberz will come to me when it k-NOWs I am ready.

Gooberlily, thanks very much for your offer, but I must decline. The uni-verse works in mysterious ways, and I do not want Gooberz until I am ready. Even so, thank you! I appreciate it.

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gooberlily
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posted January 24, 2002 12:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gooberlily     Edit/Delete Message

When I started re-reading Gooberz right before Christmas, I had to stop at Canto Four strange enough, because of a short trip I had to take to New York City.

Re-reading that Canto, well, first off it's affected me this time around because Linda talks about her friendship with Judith in "Choosing the Chosen":

"her name was Judith,
And she was Jewish."

It brought back bittersweet memories for me, of this past summer, when I dated someone very special...you could say,

"His name was Moshe,
And he was Jewish."

Anyways, I had a new appreciation re-reading that little part of Canto Four.

One of my favorite parts of her Judith story, is when Linda throws herself head-first into the faith of her friend, embracing it and loving it, but still wondering whether she would be committing some sort of "desertion to the enemy camp" I could only put myself into her shoes, and think of what I would do in the situation...what I might think as a young adolescent.

...she rationalizes it this way:

"Yes, I would join the Jewish Synagogue
and dedicate my whole, entire life to making the Jews see
that Jesus had come to set them free."

I couldn't help laughing out loud at that part, being able to see of course what would logically happen next.

Her use of the word "Gehenna" by turning it into "you can just GEH-EN-DRED!" as a creative way to say "go to h-e-l-l" I thought was really interesting, too.

Next, in "One Summer" where she speaks of Aunt Sallie and Uncle George, it reminded me so much of my own childhood. The things that stand out in your mind, your memories as a child of visiting friends of the family. How little things in the house can seem magical, if only seen in the right light. I kind of got the impression that she loved the house itself more than the people (except for Cousin Bob, of course)...there was some sort of loneliness about that, like she felt like she was always being shooed away. A house full of "dyed-in-the-wool Republicans" and here was this little girl, only trying to have some fun, have some human contact.

Poor Linda though...Cousin Bob. That part made me so sad, because I think many of us can relate to having a crush on someone when we're younger and you just know...it's not going to work out so well. And that whole conversation with her Nana...one sided, mostly, when Linda was on the way to the train...Nana seems so cold, without meaning to be, of course. Linda didn't tell her Nana that she was crying because of Cousin Bob...Linda felt replaced, and wanted to see him so badly before she left. I get this vision of this older lady fussing around a young girl, trying to get her off to the train on time, and all the while the little girl just stares blankly, and doesn't say a word, her eyes bloodshot from crying, but her tears dry. It's so sad.

I don't know...that whole Canto I felt for her, I felt as if her intentions were so good, but she was misunderstood. Her friendship with Judith that didn't work out so well because they were both young, and couldn't talk about their differences, and embrace them in each other...and Bob, how she felt he felt something for her, and she felt something for him, but again, she was too young to be taken seriously, and he had a girl his own age.

I have a place in my heart for those Cantos, because of the way she was able to explain her innermost feelings, and she tried to bridge two major caverns, but she couldn't do it by herself...so she kept it to herself. Judith probably didn't know how much Linda admired her and her faith, and Bob didn't know how much Linda felt for him at the time.

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sweetpeas
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From: Plainfield, IN
Registered: Sep 2001

posted January 24, 2002 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sweetpeas     Edit/Delete Message
Canto Six
after high school was over
there were no more Knights in any kind of armour
shiney or dull- riding horses or donkeys
except for one
years later
except for just one..
who helped me catch
a bunch of baby druids
though three of them flew away
I wonder if she is talking about her children who died in infancy or Bill,Jill and Michael her surviving children.

he was forever trying to reach a star- or ring a far away bell
like the Carnival Bill,from Carousel
his last name rhymed with apple-cider...and he loaned me
his name-and his hand-and his heart
as we tried very hard to play love's Brownie game
Here she is talking about William Snyder her first husband.
Carousel Bill is also the father of her two oldest children Sarah(nicknamed Sally) and Bill.
who's lonely?
these are raindrops,not tears..on my cheek

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