posted February 21, 2005 02:45 PM              

I am from a background where people of diverse faiths and cultures have learnt to live and accept each other inspite of their differences. And over the years, it has been revealed to me that religion is nothing but faith in the human heart expressed through stories and symbols passed through generations. True faith is the celebration of humanity and the love, tolerance and compassion He blessed us with, perhaps more than any other species in the world.

And it saddens me to see brave, honest and sensitive souls like 26 being harassed and pointed to just because they defend the ideals and people they love. However, this is not a reason to give up on the good and wonderful magic that lives in LL. 26, you are one of the most sane, humane and loving souls here. And I will NOT accep you giving up on your true friends just because a few people choose to express their insecurities abt their faith and its true lessons of love and compassion.

posted February 21, 2005 08:23 PM              

I thought we were all allowed to express our opinions here? Maybe that's only acceptable when it falls in line with the majority?

I thought pixel and 26 were open-minded sorts, willing to respect (or at least calmly tolerate) the opinions of others. Now I'm left wondering if that's true.

"harrassed and pointed to just because they defend the ideals and people they love" Odd that you would say that, maya. I don't suppose you're catching the irony of that statement?

I never said anyone was sick and I never said I was sickened. I said that the jokes were sick. And I'd even be willing to debate, in a CALM fashion, the merits of that opinion. But if you all would rather hold a witch trial, then by all means start stoking the fires. But don't expect me to be a part of it.

Please remember that I called into question something that was said, but you have attacked me. There is a vast difference.

I'm very sad and angry and disappointed about this. This feels like Holier-than-thou, mob mentality type hatred and the fact that it comes from people I honestly thought were nice and decent sorts is a real sad surprise.

posted February 21, 2005 11:03 PM            

Speaking of old threads ... "I try to call on God, my angels for help but it seems to go unanswered.""

Yes, now we do too.. so to say you weren't being judgemental is sort of scewed.
I know that the things that went on after the initial judgement were real enough to 26Taurus that she felt the need to leave.
THAT burns me....
and I think it is because.. Of course, we don't all agree on everything, what kind of a world would it be if we did.. I don't even want to know.. but people ( You and Juni) who I know I respect, tried to lay a guilt trip on people for supposed wrongs.. or something that YOU perceived as 'sick'.
We did not, and when she tried to defend, in a very diplomatic way, you attacked her on a personal level. Go ahead and express your opinions, but you know when someone who is a good person, and doesn't need to defend that, feels strongly enough about something, don't you think maybe you are seeing it the wrong way? Or.. could you expand your consciousness of her feelings, to allow your way of thinking may be different from hers.. but not any reason to make her feel small or like it is impossible to argue a point, as no one is listening as they are too busy judging?

It's funny Tink, as you said~
"This feels like Holier-than-thou, mob mentality type hatred and the fact that it comes from people I honestly thought were nice and decent sorts is a real sad surprise."

And that is exactly what I meant.
How are we each seeing judgement?
How can we fix this?

posted February 21, 2005 11:51 PM            

Let's just forgive each other.

Whether offenses were real or imagined, intentional or unintentional, lets just let them go.

We are all trying to be good people here. The rest is just confusion and debris.

Everything has a right to exist;
Words, thoughts, emotions...
We let them arise in us,...
We let them have their moment,...

Let's let them go their way.

And when the surface of Lindaland is smooth again, only then will it reflect our true natures.

"Pray for your enemies. Bless them that persecute and abuse you."

posted February 22, 2005 09:48 AM              

One more time ... I commented on the inappropriatness of mocking a Holy Man. I didn't say anyone was sick or bad.(And for the record, Randall, I would had done this had it been Mohammed, Lao-Tzu, Moses, the Buddha or even Osho.) And in return I was told I was a "vigilante" and "the Jesus police" and "the judgement police", of "sickening" people, of "harrassing" 26, of having "insecurities abt my faith" and finally, all out "war" was declared on me. That sort of extreme reaction is waaaaay beyond my comprehension. I can't imagine where it would come from and I probably don't want to know.

At any rate, as a couple of you know, I've felt increasingly uncomfortable and unwelcome since the whole magidivision drama, where I and others were accused of being a "cult peep" (thank you btw for all coming to my defense back then ), and I suppose this is just the final judgement from on high. I've been here for 2 years and I've seen so many people leave under this sort of circumstance. I'll try to take comfort in knowing I'm not the first ... and no doubt not the last.

posted February 22, 2005 12:02 PM              

This is a great thread - a true eye opener.

I think it would be VERY sad if any of you were to leave like this. Everyone has disagreements in families and often, relatives dont speak for a while but NO ONE leaves a family - you cant leave when you belong and when you are related ... as someone just recently very beautifully reminded me, the prodigal son always has to return, but only after he learns to truly love, himself as much as the beautiful myriad souls surrounding him.

posted February 22, 2005 12:32 PM            

The stone recoils on the head of the thrower. -Elizabeth I

Sometimes we all need to take a little step back and realize what we're saying... words, tricky little buggers.

Pix-Pix and 26,

posted February 22, 2005 12:37 PM            

Tink is entitled to find the joke in bad taste, and 26T is entitled to disagree, and hell, people are even entitled to get personal and nasty, it's a free world. Sticks and stones people...c'mon....surely everyone here who loves the two of you, outweights that bad taste in your mouths at the moment?

posted February 22, 2005 01:31 PM            

quote:

---

Tink is entitled to find the joke in bad taste, and 26T is entitled to disagree, and hell, people are even entitled to get personal and nasty, it's a free world. Sticks and stones people...c'mon....surely everyone here who loves the two of you, outweights that bad taste in your mouths at the moment?

---

PLease stay.. just seeing your name over there in the left corner makes me smile.
That goes for everyone.

posted February 22, 2005 03:47 PM            

Pixie asked, "How can I defend when it involves all people I adore?"

I'd like to answer that one, if I may.

Defend the truth.
Falsehood exists in all of us,
nobody is exempt, or immune.
But, if you are skillful in your diagnosis,
and genuine in your concern for all involved, you will prescribe truth every time.

So, what is truth?
Thats what Pilate asked Jesus.
And Jesus answered in silence.

Who can speak the truth?
Truth is not the property of any one of us.
It is above and beyond our own perceptions and experiences of it, but it does not contradict them; rather, it contains all of them, and reconciles seeming contradictions by virtue of its profound and ubiquitous inclusivity.

So, how do we defend the truth?
Sometimes, by listening, rather than speaking; by listening to more than a person's words; by listening to their heart.

And by seeing that a person's judgment or cruelty - or what we experience as their judgment or cruelty, - is precisely that evidence of their pain, their unrest, and their profound spiritual need to be loved, which should most bestir our compassion.

And, when every cry for vengence is heard as a cry for help... only then we will have truth in mind.

Everyone here is so beautiful.

"When a man contradicts me, he arouses my attention, not my anger. Agreement is utterly boring." - Montaigne

"True friendship is opposition." - Goethe

"I came not to bring peace, but a sword of division... And a man's enemies shall be members of his own house." - Jesus

On a personal note:

I want to apologize for not prefacing my initial post somewhat. I forget that, because my own ideas are so unorthodox, they often require some additional explaination.
It was never my intention to mock Christ,
but, rather, to express the stark ambivalence in my own soul, wherein the religious and pseudo-religious life are curiously, and sometimes adamantly, opposed.

One man's blessing is another man's curse.
I tried to bless with this thread.
But, "The path to hell is paved with good intentions."
I am reminded of Paul's exhortation (in the 2nd epistle to the Corinthians, I think), that it is good to possess the gift of prophecy, but, unless one learns to interpret, one always "speaks in tongues", and will not be understood.

posted February 22, 2005 04:11 PM              

Even though I am not a religious person, that doesn't mean I don't take offense when someone pokes fun at a religious leader!

If I didn't know better, I would say that this is blasphemy!

posted February 22, 2005 05:24 PM              

I completely agree and was never looking for anyone to agree with me, only expressing my own opinion. I really dont want to see either of us go Tink. You are just as loved here as I am. I was never upset because of your opinion or was trying to stop you from expressing them. This would be a boring world if everyone agreed on everything. I was upset because I though you and Juni were my friends and I felt attacked, stabbed in the back and ganged up on. But Isis is absolutely right. People are also entitled to get personal and nasty. All I know is I was hurt and I know you are too now. I think we should let this go. And you have just as many friends here as I do.

I understand your opinion on the original content of this thread. I dont feel the same way but I dont hate you because we have differing opinions. Neither of us is right or wrong. I only felt that I needed to say where I was coming from before the thread spiraled into something worse. And honestly it rubbed me the wrong way when someone said we needed to be forgiven for it. I think that is asinine.

There is still room for the both of us here. I cant find it in me to hold grudges. And I know very well you are a good person. I'd love to see this whole thing resolved. It's really not worth it and makes me feel sick as well. I havent been able to eat anything in two days. That's hard for a Taurus.

If it makes you feel any better, in the original silly string I made a couple of cracks at Osho as well. My sick humor knows no limits. Dont let it bother you.

There is alot to be learned from this whole thing. Mainly, not to take things so seriously. Something I dont often do. Especially something like this. It boils down to the fact that this whole thing is just silly and stupid, from beginning to end. Find the humor in everything. It's always there!

"Blessed are they who can laugh at themselves, for they shall never cease to be amused."