posted July 20, 2006 11:33 AM         

the poor child starts suppressing his naturally exuberant, affectionate nature & grows up confused, which is a real shame!

You said it. I am still confused, but I've been unraveling this knot for awhile, and I'm really starting to give myself some slack. Words of encouragement from folks like yourself are so helpful in speeding up this process, and I know that, so I am very grateful. You are right (again!) when you say that the people who teach us these repressive patterns are only perpetuating what they themselves have been taught. I can even see it in people, that, when they challenge me, they really want to lose, lol! - they really want me to prove to them that it is okay to be this way; to be human, to have feelings, to emote, to show love, to be passionate, and that we can trust ourselves to be passionate, and the world is not going to go to hell because of it. I sense that a lot. I think, when people oppose things like love, openness, etc., it is almost always because they subconsciously see love, etc., as a threat to their false beliefs, and they really want to be proven wrong! The more you show it, the more people show up to oppose you (just as more other people show up to encourage you), and you can just see it in their eyes, - they are saying to me "Please convince me, PLEASE convince me, P-L-E-A-S-E!!!" LOL And its my pleasure to try.

Have you ever heard the word "bodhichitta"? It is a buddhist word, which signifies a process, or a practice, whereby one learns to open the heart, rather than close it, in response to sufferring. Pema Chodron wrote a great book about it, called "The Places That Scare You". Sounds like you and your Pisces guy understand this concept pretty well. I like what you said about sensitivity being manly. My Aqua girl has the same attitude. I was very suspicious and doubtful of this, at first, but I am seeing how true it is, and, all I can say is, "Thank You, Jesus," lol! I think the most attractive men I have ever known/seen combine qualities of ruggedness and profound sensitivity. It is almost miraculous to see these qualities meet in one man. I'm the first to admit that I'm not especially rugged, but, if I have to be one or the other, I'm glad to be sensitive.

I once found a baby bird on the side of the road, injured, and unable to move. I carried him/her in my hand for half a mile, or so, before he/she died. I probably should not have picked him/her up, and I probably just scared him/her to death, but it was really beautiful, just the same.

It is indeed a wonderful feeling to be understood and appreciated for these qualities. Thank you for saying I deserve it. I know you will be reunited with your Pisces soon. You must believe, try to remain patient, and continue to take those steps that bring you closer to that day. The reunion will be that much brighter, on account of this long vigil.

LOL, he is quite the charmer. Yes, I'm sure you do have an unfair advantage. I know just how he feels. I'll be sure to flutter mine, when I need that extra edge.

posted July 20, 2006 11:54 AM         

Thank you so much. I have learned to really appreciate this talent of mine for putting things into words. Experience has proven to me that almost every person I meet feels and understands far more than they are often able to express. I am reminded of the humble eulogy given by Mark Antony in Shakespeare's Julius Caesar (act 3, scene2):

"I am no orator, as Brutus is;
But, as you know me all, a plain blunt man,
That love my friend; and that they know full well
That gave me public leave to speak of him:
For I have neither wit, nor words, nor worth,
Action, nor utterance, nor the power of speech,
To stir men's blood: I only speak right on;
I tell you that which you yourselves do know;
Show you sweet Caesar's wounds, poor poor dumb mouths,
And bid them speak for me: but were I Brutus,
And Brutus Antony, there were an Antony
Would ruffle up your spirits and put a tongue
In every wound of Caesar that should move
The stones of Rome to rise and mutiny."

Marc Antony speaks plainly from his heart, and, to his own surprise, his words have more power than anyone's. All he needed was the boldness of will to try to speak, which the death of his friend brought up to the surface. It is amazing... Some people can weave a wonderous tapestry of words, but, even a few simple words, when spoken from the heart, can produce an unparalleled effect. Words that come from the heart, go straight to the heart. And that is the truth of it. Your words have gone straight to my heart, and I thank you for speaking them.

Thank you.

posted July 20, 2006 01:55 PM         

I feel expressing your fears in this situation was a way to release them..to realize they have no power..only the power you give them..
we reach a point when there is no fear..instead there is knowing and LOving and LIght...
A Delight..of the you-of-you..the core..
thy cup runneth Over..eternal divine flame. ...

Have you ever read, The Life and Times of Marc Antony, by Arthur Weigall..?
he also wrote one on Cleopatra..but not one on Ceasar..great historical information in them..led me to the Syblline Oracles. ...

There is no need to Fear..it is a waste of time..listen and follow your Heart and Soul...
The Truth will be told
revealed to each and everyOne. ...

posted July 20, 2006 07:16 PM         

The ultimate challenge is, of course, to follow my own advice.

Cheers to the Journey, my friend. *clink*

posted July 21, 2006 11:10 AM         

You're welcome. Yeah, I know what you Pisces girls can do for the ones you love, and its no small feat. I agree, the Universe is always preparing something just for us. You sound like my Aqua - she has the same view about how these things have always been there, as dormant or unacknowledged parts of myself, and its just a matter of getting in touch with them. I think thats a beautiful and wise way to look at it. Its remarkable what a sweet-natured and patient girl can do to make a man feel proud; to coax him out of his shell, and into the light, where we all belong, to claim our birthrights as beloved, shining children of God. Every day, its another miracle, another rebirth, to higher levels of self-understanding and acceptance. But one mustnt stop at "hopefully". The fast track has "definitely" written all over it. Just believe it, and you WILL see it.

thank you, sweety bird

posted July 21, 2006 11:16 AM         

How often I struggle with what to express, and what to let go of. I dont want to repress anything, but I dont want to give my fears undue attention either. She makes me feel safe to share them. I see them float away and pop like soapbubbles, every time. She says, "You never have to worry, Steve. Nothing bad sticks to me. I have one of those anti-radiation showers, like in 'Silkwood'"

You give me such hope.
You speak from a place of knowing and incorruptible positivity.
It's the most ancient and reverent of songs,
and how lovingly we learn to sing it.
Thank you.

I haven't read that, no. I'm not much for histories or biographies. I'll have to google "Sibylline Oracles" now.

No Fear.

posted July 21, 2006 11:29 AM         

Thank you.
"The ultimate challenge is, of course, to follow my own advice."
I hear you. It's not easy, at first.
We are painstakingly trained in habits of self-denial.
Just be patient and always gentle with yourself.
Practice self-love and acceptance.
It gets easier and easier.
Pretty soon, its the easiest thing in the world.
You are an angel in the world.
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

Cheers! *clink*

(Thanks for the explanation. I wasnt sure how Neptune came up, but I never made any assumtions. I know your heart is a rare treasure, always noble and pure. God tests Her champions with the greatest fears. The heros are not those who never falter, but those who never stay down for very long. You are always understood. No worries.)

posted July 21, 2006 11:54 AM         

The Sibylline Oracles

posted July 21, 2006 12:25 PM         

thanks for your kind words Heart--Shaped Cross..they mean the World to me. ...

posted July 22, 2006 02:13 AM         

thank you, Steve.

(#1,534 )

(think you know just how much what you said meant to me just now. )

posted July 22, 2006 06:01 AM         

An angel of love to help you on yer way

posted July 22, 2006 09:22 AM         

>>>I am with you on that bit.
Illogical and just does not personally compute to me. I CAN see what others mean, but I see such a thing as a waste of time and energy.

HSC
It would be interesting to compare our charts.
I think we have similar placements but are so different in some ways.
I am November 3rd. Scorpio.
I really have no real idea what all this means; being an astrology unlearned one; but here I am:
SUN Scorpio
Moon Aquarius
Mercury Scorpio
Venus Scorpio
Mars Aquarius
Jupiter Cancer
Saturn Scorpio
Uranus Cancer
Neptune Libra
Pluto Leo
True Node Capricorn
Chiron Capricorn
Ascendant Capricorn

posted July 22, 2006 10:15 AM         

So I would imagine it may be something to do with the Moon sign...Aqua. My husband has this, he isnt jealous at all and can stand apart from his emotions...and can detach easily and be objective.

posted July 22, 2006 10:38 AM         

That's very beautiful.
And that makes one more for me; Thank you.

(think you know just how much what you said meant to me just now. )

I know everything, lol.
Well, not EVERYthing.

Sue g,

Wow, they are lovely. Thank you.

Fayte,

If I may repond to your comments to juni...
Did you see my reply to her?
As a Scorpio, you must know that emotions, especially emotions like jealousy, are not logical, and do not make any claims to being logical (nor should they, nor need they). I've quoted it before and I'll quote it again: "The heart has reasons which reason can never know."

I do not believe there is any such thing as a waste of time and energy. I suspect, rather, that nothing in the universe is wasted, but all things serve a higher purpose, even if it must remain mysterious to us. I suspect that, when jealousy has served its purpose, we will cease to put time and energy into it, but not before then. To suggest that this is an entirely conscious choice, to me, denies the inherent lack of division between the conscious and unconscious mind; in truth, there is no such division, - only a vast grey area where the two become one. When we speak of them as two, it is merely for convenience. For the same reason, and when it is necessary to be precise, there is also a time to speak of them as one.

"I for my part prefer the precious gift of doubt,
for the reason that it does not violate the virginity of things beyond our ken."
- C.G. Jung

There is another from Jung which I just came across,
and think you might find illuminating:

"We can accuse Christianity of arrested development, if we are determined to excuse our own shortcomings, but I do not wish to make the mistake of blaming religion for something that is mainly due to human incompetence."

(from "The Religious and Psychological Problems of Alchemy")

You will find my chart in the signature of this post. I would be curious to examine yours, as well. (I think you know where to find my email, if you wish to send me your chart, or, if you are comfortable, you could post it here at LL, - in any case, it is infinitely more helpful to know the degrees of those sign placements.) I'm only slightly more educated in this science than yourself, but I will try to offer some insights, if you wish to hear them. I agree, we appear quite different in some ways, and similar in others.

as lotushearone says,
"love to all",

Steve-Shaped Heart

posted July 22, 2006 10:43 AM         

------------------
"Advice is not for lovers.
This is not the kind of mountain stream
You can build a damn acrosss."
- Rumi

posted July 22, 2006 11:26 AM         

You asked:
Fayte, do you have moon in the first?

How do I tell?

I will look and see what I can figure out.

Yes this is very intriguing indeed!

posted July 22, 2006 11:33 AM         

Planetary positions
planet sign degree house motion
Sun Scorpio 10°42'17 10 direct
Moon Aquarius 08°17'32 01/2 direct
Moon is technically near the end of house 1 and is interpreted in house 2.
Mercury Scorpio 00°37'16 10 retrograde
Venus Scorpio 28°26'54 11 retrograde
Mars Aquarius 08°41'38 01/2 direct
Mars is technically near the end of house 1 and is interpreted in house 2.
Jupiter Cancer 29°38'49 07 direct
Saturn Scorpio 11°55'02 10 direct
Uranus Cancer 27°42'26 07 stationary (R)
Neptune Libra 26°21'10 10 direct
Pluto Leo 26°38'32 08 direct
True Node Capricorn 07°10'45 01 direct

House positions (Placidus)
Ascendant Capricorn 00°29'34
2nd House Aquarius 09°41'39
3rd House Pisces 21°31'16
Imum Coeli Aries 25°03'06
5th House Taurus 20°08'03
6th House Gemini 10°43'32
Descendant Cancer 00°29'34
8th House Leo 09°41'39
9th House Virgo 21°31'16
Medium Coeli Libra 25°03'06
11th House Scorpio 20°08'03
12th House Sagittarius 10°43'32

Major aspects
Sun Square Moon 2°25
Sun Square Mars 2°01
Sun Conjunction Saturn 1°13
Moon Square Mercury 7°40
Moon Conjunction Mars 0°24
Moon Square Saturn 3°37
Mercury Square Jupiter 0°58
Mercury Square Uranus 2°55
Mercury Conjunction Neptune 4°16
Mercury Sextile Pluto 3°59
Mercury Sextile Ascendant 0°08
Venus Trine Jupiter 1°12
Venus Trine Uranus 0°44
Venus Square Pluto 1°48
Mars Square Saturn 3°13
Jupiter Conjunction Uranus 1°56
Jupiter Square Neptune 3°18
Jupiter Quincunx Ascendant 0°51
Uranus Square Neptune 1°21
Uranus Quincunx Ascendant 2°47
Neptune Sextile Pluto 0°17
Neptune Sextile Ascendant 4°08
Pluto Trine Ascendant 3°51
Numbers indicate orb (deviation from the exact aspect angle).

posted July 22, 2006 11:46 AM         

"We all agree that jealousy serves no purpose in our lives."

I agree, too.
It serves no purpose in YOUR lives.

For others, for those who are jealous, it serves a purpose. Even if all they are learning is to release jealousy, well, (I'm sure you would agree) that, in itself, is a valuable lesson. Perhaps you have already learned it, and, so, it serves no purpose for you. Do you see what I am saying?

Just to clarify where I am at...

When I get jealous, I say, "I feel very jealous right now. I want to trust you, but I am insecure, and I just feel very threatened right now." The worst I will say is, "perhaps you would be happier with him... Perhaps he is more your type," or something like that, which is just an expression of my fears. I do not say mean things.

Love,
S

posted July 22, 2006 12:01 PM         

I totally understand what you mean. The rational is logical and your exploring the feeling is not wrong. For me personally it serves no purpose.
I am glad you are able to look at it. Some folks never do.
What you are describing is not what I would call jealousy though. But then there are many definitions of jealousy. This sounds more like insecurity than possessivenes. To me true jealousy is a push me pull you kind of destructive control thing, not wariness or trust issues. If I cannot trust someone, I let them go.
Very interesting topic my friend.