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Author
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Topic: "Who are you calling a b!tch?"- Kate Figes
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merry_sherry
Knowflake Posts: 25
From:
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted February 09, 2007 12:52 AM
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/women/story/0,,1999060,00.html I wonder if you, especially the women among you guys- would agree on everything Ms Figes said in that article. Certainly not me. Interesting, though. IP: Logged |
Mirandee
Knowflake Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted February 09, 2007 01:50 AM
quote:
Given all its negative connotations, it is not surprising that women fear being called a ***** . In fact, though, it is something that we should embrace. Why? The US feminist magazine ***** explains it like this on its website: "When it's being used as an insult, ***** is an epithet hurled at women who speak their minds, who have opinions and do not shy away from expressing them and who do not sit by and smile uncomfortably if they are bothered or offended. If being an outspoken woman means being a ***** , we will take that as a compliment, thanks."
Having been called a b!tch more than once here at LL for just the same reasons she states in the quote above, I tend to agree with what she says. Though I disagree that men mostly call women that for being outspoken, I find it is most often other women who do that. Don't know the psychology of that but I tend to think it is due to the fact that while they feel it is okay for them to be outspoken they don't like getting it back.  IP: Logged |
merry_sherry
Knowflake Posts: 25
From:
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted February 09, 2007 07:17 AM
Hi!Well-said, Mirandee  IP: Logged |
Bluemoon
Knowflake Posts: 4456
From: Stafford, VA USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted February 09, 2007 09:43 AM
Welcome, Merry Sherry!IP: Logged |
Gemini Nymph
Knowflake Posts: 2216
From:
Registered: Jul 2004
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posted February 09, 2007 11:24 AM
Yeah I pretty much agree with her. The word has many connotating, but I agree that it's often used ot insult people who are aggressive or assertive in ways that society (men) find threatening. It's meant to to put us in our place, to uphold the double standard and I've long grown to ignore that as an insult, but see it more as as an admittence by the other person that they are threatened by me.However, there's are other, less nice uses still around, when it's much more of a dergeading insult. But if someone calls me a b*tch just for speaking my mind, well then, thank you. IP: Logged |
Mirandee
Knowflake Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted February 09, 2007 12:22 PM
Thank you merry sherry and yes, welcome to LL.  GN, I agree with what you and the article said about giving a thank you to anyone who calls me a b!tch for speaking my mind and giving my opinions. I have noticed that you are a very honest outspoken woman and I truly admire that in you as I admire honesty in any one, man or woman. IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna
Knowflake Posts: 4598
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted February 09, 2007 12:24 PM
I actually take it as a compliment when someone calls me a biatch.  IP: Logged |
silverbells
Knowflake Posts: 1506
From: The second star to the right (which shines in the night for'eer)
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted February 09, 2007 02:33 PM
I don't know that I take it as a compliment if I am called that, but some boys over the age of 18 do like to use that word as well as wh*** and s**t even in non-sexual situations when you are doing/saying or not doing/saying something and it upsets them. So while I do not take it as a compliment I am generally pleased (even if a little hurt) when some over-grown boy says that to me. He feels the need to reduce the woman, in his mind, because she is formidable and he can't handle it; that is generally good to know. In certain situations there are just some things that only real men or guys on their way to manhood can deal with, if the person in question does not qualify they usually respond with the aforementioned crudiness or something similar. If they respond badly to you having preferences/standards/requirements/a personality then you know who you are dealing with and can easily get rid of them, (boys are not difficult to get rid of.) You can congratulate yourself on your close-call escape. And in work situations you can feel superior because you are.(if that floats your boat). So sometimes that word is good as it can be used to seperate/identify the weak from the strong, the backstabber from the benevolent, your future victim from your future beneficiary. 
Women who call other women bitches are usually either jealous, telling the truth or have nothing better to do with their time but to waste it acknowledging mean people who are beneath them.But a compliment - no. There is a difference between strong women and women who are bitchy. There are no classes of "bitchiness". Strong women are considerate of others and themselves and have real integrity, and don't mind letting it show. "Bitchy" women are just women who go on rampages and then pathetically justify it by saying that they are outspoken and honest. ------------------
...Loneliness makes you strong, only Love makes you free - Michael Franks IP: Logged |
Mirandee
Knowflake Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted February 09, 2007 03:03 PM
quote:
There is a difference between strong women and women who are bitchy. There are no classes of "bitchiness". Strong women are considerate of others and themselves and have real integrity, and don't mind letting it show. "Bitchy" women are just women who go on rampages and then pathetically justify it by saying that they are outspoken and honest.
What you said here is very true, silverbells. Some people get assertiveness mixed up with agressiveness. There is a vast difference between the two and you explained those differences very well. IP: Logged |
eatbooks
Knowflake Posts: 619
From:
Registered: Dec 2006
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posted February 09, 2007 03:12 PM
Interesting stuff here ladies, Ive been called a b1tch in the past, but its usually been people I've spoken my mind to and had no qualms of doing so.I esp like this part: quote:
There is a difference between strong women and women who are bitchy. There are no classes of "bitchiness". Strong women are considerate of others and themselves and have real integrity, and don't mind letting it show. "Bitchy" women are just women who go on rampages and then pathetically justify it by saying that they are outspoken and honest.
I dont get offended if someone calls me a b1tch. It doesnt happen very often, coz I try to be civil with people. I am continually learning the art of diplomacy, but also maintaining to never be stepped on or pushed around. IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna
Knowflake Posts: 4598
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted February 09, 2007 03:56 PM
Whoa Silverbells, what I said was a bit tongue in cheek. Not like I haven't been called a biatch before but the instances I have been called so were when I wouldn't play the doormat (as I have played in the past)...that's why I said that.IP: Logged |
aquaspryt69
Knowflake Posts: 1567
From: Arizona
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted February 10, 2007 08:42 AM
I've been called a biotch and a wh*** since the 6th grade just because I had a large chest and wouldn't sleep with them. Not to mention a nasty personality.
Now I am simply a nasty old cu**. I am one of those "types" silverbells mentions getting rid of.
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Scorpionic Web
Knowflake Posts: 513
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted February 10, 2007 08:58 AM
B*tch magazine, Bust magazine, and others of the like, all go beyond "being opinionated". They epitomize sexism, and any woman who is a sexist is indeed a b*tch.It goes past opinionation, falling into the realm of lower human evolution. Women who follow those magazines are sadly unenlightened individuals. Many of them are bitter over men for breaking their hearts in the past... well, its all a part of life to have one's heart broken, often broken repeatedly. I've been mistreated by women, but I don't marginalize the entire female population because of it, as these magazines are doing to men. IP: Logged |
MysticMelody
Moderator Posts: 3521
From:
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted February 10, 2007 11:43 AM
"Far more unites men and women than divides us, but when it comes to negative stereotypes, women win hands down. Girls are "bossy" and grow into women who "nag", while boys of all ages are "authoritative" and "natural-born leaders"."This is the first line. I had to read it. 
Decent article. IP: Logged |
silverbells
Knowflake Posts: 1506
From: The second star to the right (which shines in the night for'eer)
Registered: Apr 2003
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posted February 10, 2007 03:06 PM
Thank you, Mirandee and eatbooks.  Women who have to learn to take a compliment is the next topic that we should discuss. Sweet Moon  , I was not saying anything to you in particular I was just weighing in, on the compliment versus insult thing, which was one of the article's underlying main themes as well as a highlighted quote from the author. aquaspryt69  I never said anything about getting rid of "nasty old c*** types" Scorpionic Web, I've never heard of B**ch or Bust magazines, they sound like porn titles, are they actually male bashing publications? ------------------
...Loneliness makes you strong, only Love makes you free - Michael Franks IP: Logged |
aquaspryt69
Knowflake Posts: 1567
From: Arizona
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted February 10, 2007 04:27 PM
silverbells~
Sorry, I was in a funky mood this morning and I shouldn't have said what I said. I just took something I've been called before and ran with it. This is what I get for missing too many meetings. I went to one before work and am in a better frame of mind. Again, I'm sorry silverbells. IP: Logged |
Mirandee
Knowflake Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted February 10, 2007 05:59 PM
Playboy and Penthouse both epitomize sexism too, Scorp Web. What's Hugh Hefner's excuse? IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna
Knowflake Posts: 4598
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted February 10, 2007 06:06 PM
quote:
B*tch magazine, Bust magazine, and others of the like, all go beyond "being opinionated". They epitomize sexism, and any woman who is a sexist is indeed a b*tch.
It goes past opinionation, falling into the realm of lower human evolution. Women who follow those magazines are sadly unenlightened individuals.
Many of them are bitter over men for breaking their hearts in the past... well, its all a part of life to have one's heart broken, often broken repeatedly. I've been mistreated by women, but I don't marginalize the entire female population because of it, as these magazines are doing to men.
And I seriously wonder if you have the same words for all the chauvinists and misogynists out there. Its really as simple as 2+2: no a$$holes=no bitter women...end of story. So go and berate and insult them if you have a problem.
Anyways, Silverbells: sorry about that. For some reason I thought that post was directed at me...my bad.
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Scorpionic Web
Knowflake Posts: 513
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted February 10, 2007 07:09 PM
Mirandee- Sexism is maliciously conceived discrimination. Magazines like Playboy are closer to a celebration of women. Like Jerry Seinfeld said in an episode of his show regarding racism: "If I LIKE their race, then how can I be a racist?!?" Besides, literary remarks in men's magazines are intended as low-brow jokes driven by the obvious and harmless humor behind sexual stereotypes, never with the negativity that some women's magazines are continually directing towards men. As far as I'm concerned, B*tch and Bust are just "preaching to the choir". If women want change, and men are the enemy, then women should realize diplomacy will get them further than mud-slinging. If some women are convinced that men hoard the power, then why would they insist to segregate themselves and push men further away with discriminatory comments and maligned publications? Seems counter-productive to me. I ONLY WANT UNITY!!!! (So when I saw a sexually inflammatory thread, I had to get involved) I LOVE women, so don't attack me IP: Logged |
BlueRoamer
Knowflake Posts: 3944
From: Calm Blue Ocean, Calm Blue Ocean
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted February 10, 2007 11:35 PM
The B word is definitely sexist.I only use it on rare occasions when it actually fits. It's not about being outspoken, I use the word when someone is bringing harm or malice to my world or a friends world. A B!tch is a harmful woman. I use A$$hole for men. ALthough B!tch is very commonly used among gay males to describe eachother. IP: Logged |
BornUnderDioscuri
Knowflake Posts: 2560
From: Never Never Land
Registered: Oct 2006
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posted February 10, 2007 11:56 PM
I dont know it seems immature to call someone a ***** because they are outspoken. But there also is a BIG difference between being outspoken and attacking everyone and everything that disagrees with you, jumping to conclusions and being beligerant. quote:
There is a difference between strong women and women who are bitchy
Most definately quote:
B*tch magazine, Bust magazine, and others of the like, all go beyond "being opinionated". They epitomize sexism, and any woman who is a sexist is indeed a b*tch.
Exactly...I used to be a feminist before my women and religion class. After that I closed the door. These women take it TOOOOO far. quote:
Playboy and Penthouse both epitomize sexism too, Scorp Web. What's Hugh Hefner's excuse?
True but there is a subtle difference. Women in those magazenes get paid a horde of money and choose (and usually really want) to be there. Thats different than publishing articles about how horrible men are. When they carry some truth, thats okay but there is such a thin line between truth and propoganda. quote:
Its really as simple as 2+2: no a$$holes=no bitter women...end of story.
Haha how true is that!!! quote:
Magazines like Playboy are closer to a celebration of women.
I wouldn't go that far. I wouldnt call it sexism and I wouldnt call it a celebration. There are far better ways to celebrate them. quote:
Besides, literary remarks in men's magazines are intended as low-brow jokes driven by the obvious and harmless humor behind sexual stereotypes
There is no such thing as a harmless stereotype. quote:
As far as I'm concerned, B*tch and Bust are just "preaching to the choir". If women want change, and men are the enemy, then women should realize diplomacy will get them further than mud-slinging.
THat i will agree with./ IP: Logged |
BornUnderDioscuri
Knowflake Posts: 2560
From: Never Never Land
Registered: Oct 2006
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posted February 10, 2007 11:57 PM
quote:
B!tch is very commonly used among gay males to describe eachother.
Hmmm i find it more effective to us B*** on a guy than a chick. IP: Logged |
Mirandee
Knowflake Posts: 4812
From: South of the Thumb - Taurus, Pisces, Cancer
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted February 11, 2007 02:56 AM
A celebration of women??? I hardly see how sexual exploitation of women is in any way a celebration of their femininity. Looking at women as nothing more than sexual objects to be displayed for the gratification of men is hardly celebrating womanhood. It's sexism. Playboy and Penthouse is hardly art. lol I look at men and women not by their gender but as fellow human beings. We all have the same hopes, dreams and aspirations. I don't think it is right to exploit either gender or treat each other as anything less than equals. Playboy and Penthouse and those types of magazines in general are solely for the purpose of exploiting women as sexual objects for men. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it is probably a duck, Scorp Web. No matter how you might want to present it otherwise. I like men too but that doesn't mean that have to see them naked to appreciate them for all they are as a person. edited to add that in my post I stated it is my experience that mostly women call other women b!tches. I have never had a man call me call me a b!tch for any reason. And yes, feminists do go too far many times.
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Scorpionic Web
Knowflake Posts: 513
From: Pennsylvania
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted February 11, 2007 08:41 AM
I still don't understand how a magazine aimed at appreciating a woman's physical beauty makes it sexist. ("If I like their sex, then how can I be a sexist?!?")I know as many women who enjoy those magazines, porn, etc, just as men do. Are these women sexist to their own gender, for enjoying other women as sexual objects? Be careful here, because if your answer is "No", then I believe you're treading on a double-standard. The women who pose for those magazines obviously aren't trying to be appreciated for their minds. Maybe they want money, a chance at fame, or simply to show themselves off. These magazines wouldn't exist if women weren't getting naked for them. It all starts with her. So, Mirandee, it has nothing to do with appreciating them "as a person". Obviously, no reader knows who they are as a person. It does make them a sexual object, and as such it is indeed a celebration, brought to us by all of the women who like to publicly celebrate their bodies. Again, it all starts with her. As long as there is a woman who wants to get naked, there will be a man who will appreciate it. Its only thousands of years of human nature. To get angry at men for enjoying a naked woman, is to get angry with God for making us exactly as we are. Don't blame men. Blame nature. P.S.- As for enjoying women for their minds- Hillary Clinton in 2008!!! She has my vote.(Lets get another Scorpio in the White House!!!) IP: Logged |
Dulce Luna
Knowflake Posts: 4598
From: The Asylum
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted February 11, 2007 08:59 AM
You mean people are seriously wondering how magazines like PlayBoy and Penthouse are sexist? Well lets see, besides the fact they are degrading to women, where else should I begin? 
And Yes BUD, its as simple as 2+2.
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