posted May 02, 2007 11:55 AM         

Self-pity is indeed a morass, but, when we observe the profound excess to which present day Western Civilization has run in pursuit of its deification of the human will, individual autonomy, etc., we can see very easily how a person can be brought to such a condition. The western mind is very fond of quick fixes, and easy answers. The western mind's idea of a truly great proverb is something like, "Just do it," "Deal with it," "Get over it," and "Let it go,". We are a culture of insensitive extroverts, and anyone who stops to look at the flowers, or nurse a sprained ankle, or a sprained psyche (and, god forbid, asks or insists on his need for help, rather than use his almighty "free will") is promptly kicked to the curb. "Lead, follow, or get out of the way,". That's our brave new world for you. And God Bless it, right? Wrong. God has no relevence in this society.

Its ironic to me that the only conclusion you can come to about this "its so hard to be me" tendency is that it is "unproductive". That is, after all, the measure of all things, in our present society, is it not? What is productive is true, and what is unproductive is false, because, after all, - what makes us feel good is always true, and what disturbs us is false, right?

The next point you make, pressumably to support your case, is that your own experience as a Scorpio was not paralyzing. As if all Scorpios are the same, and your experience proves or disproves whatever may be said about Plutonian energies. First of all, having the Sun in Scorpio doesn't make you an expert on these energies. Taking other chart factors into account, it would be plain to see why these energies are not overwhelming to you. I suggest that if, like me, you had Sun/VenusRx/MC/Uranus in Scorpio, Pluto square the Ascendant, AND your chart ruler in the 8th house, you might be singing a different tune. And, if you were me, you would indeed be singing a different tune, as I am.

Now, we can debate the possible existence of free will for hours. You can tell me that a person can transcend their birth chart, and, no doubt, you will cite examples of things in the birthchart which they have learned to work with, and you will probably think that this proves your point. I could point out things in the birthchart which made that "transcendence" both possible and inevitable, and you would ignore them and point to some abstract free will, which neither you nor anybody else can define...

I could then tell you that I've spent the past twelve years of my life studying this question in-depth, and that I've dedicated the majority of my talent for concentration and abstract thinking to the consideration of this very problem. I could tell you that I've analyzed it from many angles, repeatedly. I could set before you dozens of rational arguments showing categorically that free will is either impossible, or, if it is possible, is only possible outside the boundaries of everything we hold to be within reason.

I could site hundreds of quotes, from Buddha, to Solomon, to Jesus, to Rumi, to Voltaire, to Schopenhauer, to Tolstoy, to Einstein, and others who have examined this matter closely (rather than just accepted the popular opinion of the day, or grabbed the first argument that seemed to support their emotional inclination to believe in free will; whether out of pride, complacency, or in fear of not being in control).

I could speak to you of the doctrine of necessity (called "necessitarianism" in Islam), which is at the heart of all world religions, and which unlocks the interpretation of countless verses in the scriptures of the ages.

I could use purely scientific arguments to illustrate to you the irrefutability of the inter-connection, and inter-dependence of all things, including human behaviors. I could show you that, the closer you look at something, the more clear it becomes that every cause is itself an effect, inexorably linked to a (presumably infinite) antecedence of other "causes". The closer you examine any thing, the more its boundaries disappear, and the clearer it becomes to the observor that so-called boundaries are mere surface appearances, which do not reflect the actual nature of perceptual objects; which really only appear separate on account of their relativity to a very specific, utterly conditioned, and near-sighted point of view.

But you probably wouldn't hear me,
and I would just be wasting my energy.
So, I'll leave it at that.

posted May 02, 2007 12:14 PM         

I understand what you are saying fairly well.

But it is a paradox.

If nothing is wrong, nothing is wrong.

You can't have it both ways.

I am in being as surely as Tolle is in being.

My awareness, or lack of awareness, of that is also in being.

The journey is the destination.

But, knowing this does not negate the journey or the destination.

What you are trying to articulate is well beyond words.

There is nothing to say, nothing to do.

As it is, so shall it be.

To be in the conflict, but not of it,...

Is niether in our power nor out of it.

Enlightenment is the product of the work of countless lifetimes,
just as it is nothing but the abdication of that work.

I can say no more about this.

love to you,
s

posted May 02, 2007 12:26 PM         

"Forgiveness, compassion and peace will come from the realization that I can never know her past, I can never feel her pain, I dont know what she is thinking... so I am unable to judge her from my place.."

This is true, and very profound. However, I think you missed something. You are right when you say that these things can not be known. But the point Tolle is making is not dependent on whether or not these things may be known. What is essential here is the apprehension that those things do indeed exist, with which you have agreed. The awareness that another person has a perspective which is distinct from your own is all that is aimed at here. With that awareness comes the refusal to make moralistic assumptions regarding another person's choices and behaviors.

On a deeper level, and what I believe you are rejecting here, is the conclusion that, if we have a perspective, unique to ourselves (as it must be, for no two bodies can occupy the same time and space), our behavior is necessarily determined according to that perspective. I ask you to consider, what else may we base our choices and actions upon, if not the objects of our consciousness? And what dimensions may these objects assume, if not the dimensions accorded them by our particular point of view when we perceive them? And, if you believe that it is in our power to determine our point of view, I would ask only that you consider what point of view we have recourse to, in making such a distinction.

hsc

posted May 02, 2007 12:57 PM         

I have a stomach and digestive problem that plagues me almost on a daily basis. Some days are worse than others and it can be very painful all day long. It is another one of those things in which the cause is unknown by medical science so there is no effective treatment and definitely no cure. I have problems in my life like everyone else but no specific emotional problems. Actually, I am not estatic and would like to change some things but I am quite content with my life on the whole.

I reject any philosophy such as this:

quote:

---

But I believe very strongly that Kurt's stomach (Cancer Moon) and intestinal problems (Virgo Ascendant/Pluto/Uranus) had their source in his profound emotional sensitivity. It is widely accepted, especially outside of the cabal of Western Meicine, that emotional problems frequently manifest in physical symptoms, and that one of the most likely places in the body to be affected, if not the most likely, is the stomach. I do know that, when I was going through my worst periods of depression, I was plagued by some of the most horrible stomach pains I've ever experienced, and that, on a daily basis.

---

I reject it because when someone is suffering from anything the worse thing anyone can do is to in some way put the blame off on the person suffering with stupid theories such as this. It's bad enough to suffer any ailment ( and we all suffer from something at some time in our lives) without telling the people who are suffering that it is in some way their own fault. No compassion at all in doing that.

I deal with it and go on with my daily life in spite of the pain and discomfort. I may at times take some over the counter drug to ease the distress but I don't drink and I don't do drugs and I don't wallow in self-pity over it. I just deal with it and go on with my life as best I can.

I have a responsibility for myself and my family and other responsibilities in my life that does not allow me the time to be self-indulgent and moan and lament over my troubles in life. Kurt Cobain obviously had way too much time on his hands and obviously thought about no one but himself and his own problems in life. When he blew his face off at home he certainly wasn't thinking about his young child who now has to deal with that her whole life. Nor was he thinking about his wife, who herself was a mess.

I agree with Tink in that we are supposed to work at overcoming the negative aspects in ourselves due to our charts, our childhood or whatever causes it. Same thing applies to whatever ailments we may have that might make life a little rougher for us. Not wallow in pity and succumb to it or use it as an excuse for our bad behavior. Doing so is called taking responsibility for ourselves.

You are not exactly tripping alone, HSC. Not when you put in posts like this on a pubic forum. Nor are you "tripping alone" when at Yellow Wax, as moderator, you, at your own whim, delete an entire thread without any explantation for doing so and just ignoring it when questioned about the thread. People took time and effort to give their thoughts on that thread. Time they may have had to take in an otherwise busy day and even when they might have been suffering from some kind of illness that causes pain. If you decided you didn't like your poem on that thread you could have just edited it out. Instead you deleted the whole thread wiping out everything that others said as well. That's rude but what is even more rude is not giving those people on that thread any reason as to why you took that action. Perhaps it was because the conversation took a turn that you didn't like. Who knows? And that is no reason for deleting an entire thread. The rest of us may have liked the conversation even if you didn't.

You don't feel the need to take any responsibility for your actions so you just ignore others and give no explanation for your actions.

You weren't tripping alone when you deleted that entire thread for no apparent reason. There were no insults, no arguments at all on that thread. No reason at all to delete that thread except at your whim. Or on your trip and that is hardly "tripping alone." It was just another one of your self-indulgences. My advice to you, HSC, is to grow up and start taking some responsibility for yourself and more importantly, for other human beings on the planet. I hate to shock you but the sun does not rise every day just because you woke up and got out of bed.

posted May 02, 2007 01:36 PM         

Sometimes it shows more love to tell someone what they might need to hear instead of what we think they want to hear.

posted May 02, 2007 01:52 PM         

"'m a scorpio and I can't say I've found it particularly difficult. I've found it quite useful actually and I can't say I look forward to relinquishing i"

Just because you haven't found it particularly difficult doesn't mean others won't. Just because your life is a certain way doesn't mean others should be. Where were you when the compassion and understanding was handed out? Probably at a GOP or NRA convention I'm guessing.

I greatly appreciate the way in which HSC draws attention to himself. He puts himself out there, allowing for some very deep dialogue to take place. If this is something you cant' appreciate TINK, maybe you'd be better off listening to Rush.

posted May 02, 2007 01:57 PM         

quote:

---

It's bad enough to suffer any ailment ( and we all suffer from something at some time in our lives) without telling the people who are suffering that it is in some way their own fault. No compassion at all in doing that.

---

I agree 100%, but I cannot for the life of me see how you arrived at the conclusion that I was blaming Kurt for his emotional problems. On the contrary, if you are paying any attention at all, it ought to be quite clear that nearly everything I have said in this thread has been directly contrary to such a position.

However, it is clear to me this is exactly what you yourself are doing when you say something like this:

quote:

---

Kurt Cobain obviously had way too much time on his hands and obviously thought about no one but himself and his own problems in life. When he blew his face off at home he certainly wasn't thinking about his young child who now has to deal with that her whole life. Nor was he thinking about his wife, who herself was a mess.

---

I feel a little sick and guilty even repeating comments like this. You are placing blame on a victim. The fact is, everything you can say about Kurt, he knew, and said more articulately and emphatically than you could ever do. But you dont see the half of it. And you definitely don't see the other side of the coin.

quote:

---

Same thing applies to whatever ailments we may have that might make life a little rougher for us. Not wallow in pity and succumb to it or use it as an excuse for our bad behavior. Doing so is called taking responsibility for ourselves.

---

Again, you are just relishing your ability to look down on anyone with a truly great cross to bear. You don't get it. You don't see that there are mental afflictions which are just as real as physical ones. Would you say that a cancer patient is being "enabled" if he/she is not given a firm kick in the pants, and expected to assume all the responsibilities common to healthy people? Are they selfishly abandoning their loved ones when the cancer overcomes and kills them? If you think that is essentially different from mental and emotional afflictions, it is only on account of your own superficial point of view, which is unable, or unwilling, to penetrate beneath the surface of things, and accept the reality of mental disorders. Your point of view is truly archaic. It is a throwback to the stone age and a stumbling block to the evolution of human conscious everywhere. Read a book.

I was indeed tripping alone when I posted this thread in an attempt to reach out for a hand to hold. I'm glad you were not the first to respond, because you would have given me a firm slap me on the wrist, and I might have found myself in a hell which you probably cannot imagine, unless you have had a bad trip.

Please, hold your horses and your army of unflattering speculations, accusations, and assumptions about that Yellow Wax thread. I had never deleted a thread before. The box I checked said "delete this post". My post was very negative, and I wanted it deleted. I had no idea it would delete the thread, and when I tried to undo it, I could not. I wish you would have asked me about that before you entertained (and posted) three paragraphs full of your negative speculations, accusations, and assumptions.

quote:

---

You don't feel the need to take any responsibility for your actions so you just ignore others and give no explanation for your actions.

---

I didnt know anyone was upset about this. I havent been back to Yellow Wax in the past 24hrs to witness the outcry, if there is one. And as for your objections, I just saw them, and I just answered them.

take care of yourself,
hsc

posted May 02, 2007 02:21 PM         

No, unproductive is not the only thing. Not at all. Certainly is a start though. Call me hopelessly Victorian, but I appreciate productivity. The purpose of incarnation is to learn from and enjoy material existence, everything else has proven to me to be a waste of time and energy. Please don't misunderstand. I agree vehemently with your Siggie quote. Anything experienced or observed can be a catalyst for growth ... if taken consciously advantage of. I prefer consciously but one could make a case for unconscious growth as well. Or you can throw up your hands and blame the stars.

That wasn't a point really. It was a simple statement of fact, just throwing my experiece into the communal pot. If there was any point in there to be had it was only that, as you said, not all scorpios are the same. Blaming our woes on a scorpio sun is certainly anyones perogative though. You're quite right btw, I'm no astrological expert. For the record, I have sun, merc, venus, neptune, and jupiter all in scorpio. I also have pluto on the ascendent. Have no idea about the ruling house thing. I'm not sure if that earns me access into your scorpio inner sanctum, but there it is.

Yes, yes, yes you can quote and you've studied, and blah blah blah. I've read them all too and I'm older than you so have studied longer. yada yada. Again, your intellect neither intimidates nor impressess me. This is not an attempt to hurt, merely to save time.

quote:

---

I could speak to you of the doctrine of necessity (called "necessitarianism" in Islam), which is at the heart of all world religions, and which unlocks the interpretation of countless verses in the scriptures of the ages.

---

posted May 02, 2007 03:29 PM         

Studying is overated, I think. Have you heard the story of the Hezret Molana student and the donkey? I think HSC has.

Juni btw makes me feel stupid damn near every time I talk to her. I enjoy it. I's good for the soul. Eleanore's a marvelously clear, humble and unbiased thinker too. I've learned a lot from both of them and could stand to learn more.

posted May 02, 2007 05:57 PM         

Many of you people do this all the time at LL. Whenever someone says something about the behavior of others you put the blame on them and ignore what the other person did. I hate to inform you of this but that IS enabling and co-dependent behavior. Whenever you condone bad beahvior of any kind you are only enabling that behavior to continue and in fact, encouraging it. I notice none of you are condoning and enabling what you may see as my bad behavior in pointing it out. Instead you, BR, are looking for some other ulterior motive as for my pointing out the deletion of that thread. Something besides my reaction at HSC's actions and even asking him where the thread went before jumping to what he sees as unfounded accusations. Something really stupid and petty in fact.

I don't mind HSC or anyone else putting personal things out on the threads here at LL. I also like to see that. What I don't like to see is threads being deleted for no apparent reason and without any explanation. I did have the courtesy to put in a post inquiring of HSC what happened to the thread before I "jumped to unfounded conclusions and made unfounded accusations." There was no response to that inquiry. Not until I posted here today anyway. And then not even an apology but instead insults to me by HSC.

HSC said it was a mistake at Yellow Wax. Maybe it was a mistake made while he was "tripping" but he has been here long enough to know what the edit option means and to know those buttons on the bottom are given only to moderators. And if he realized the mistake he could have at least explained it and apologized for having made it. So I am not buying his excuse. That is his excuse in order to put it off on me and attempt to make my being upset over a thread being deleted like that as me being the bad guy. It's manipulation on his part to do that.

You told BR in a post that what you need is a mother. You have a mother, HSC and in spite of what you may feel about her and how she raised you, you are never going to work that out with some other woman as a mother replacement. You will never succeed in that effort to make your childhood come out "right" or the way you want it to be. No other woman can do that for you because she is NOT your mother. It's your mother that you have to work it out with or not. I am being honest in telling you that it is a futile attempt on your part and you only hurt others in trying to find what you see as that "perfect mommy." You can't change the past. You can't change the way things were with either of your parents and make it come out right or the way you want it to be. You might get lucky and in talking to your mom work things out between you. Then again she may not be open to that or want to hear it so you can't. That being the case you just have to forgive and let go of the past. Otherwise you will forever be trying to work it out on some hapless woman and getting no where.

I am telling you this from my own experience of wasting a lot of years of my life trying to make things from my own childhood come out right in regards to my dad. It is futile and it is unkind to drag others into that. I hurt people in my life doing the same thing. I am telling you this because in spite of the things that you can do that may annoy the hell out me, HSC I do like you. I think you have a very good heart.

Bluemoon, I know you that you have a good heart and are a very compassionate, caring person. People like you can get hurt easily. I know that too from experience. Been there, done that. I don't get dragged into it any longer as I realized we cannot save other people or change them. Only they can do that for themselves.

Truth is I can be just as tough on my own kids as I have been with you, HSC. In fact I have been with my oldest son. I did that out of love for him and not wanting to see him wreck his life. His drinking and drugs began to get him into trouble and he was bringing it home and upsetting the family. He told me at that time he hated me. I told him that I would rather he hate me now than come back in his 30's or when his whole life was ruined and ask me why I didn't care enough to do anything or say anything. He subsequently stopped drinking on his own and stopped doing drugs. Not because of me but because he wanted to change. We are on loving terms today.

I forgive you for the mistake of deleting the thread. I will accept your explantion for it even if I may question whether or not it is true. But I had a right to be p!ssed off about it and question it. I refuse to have my feelings invalidated with some really stupid logic of "moderator envy." Give me a friggin' break, BR. You are smart enough to come up with a better reason than that for invalidating my feelings.

posted May 02, 2007 07:36 PM         

I did click on the edit button (I dont know what you are talking about when you talk about words on the bottom of the screen), and the safe thing to do would have been to just edit my post and say that i decided to delete my poem. What I did do was click on the box that said "delete post", I guess, because I was a little power mad with my mod status, and I supposed for some reason that when i checked the box that said "delete post" the result would be that my post (and not the entire thread) would be deleted. Hard to believe, huh? Anyway, I had not been here long enough to know that. I only just learned it yesterday, and I'm sure a lot of people don't know that. It is not a ruse to manipulate the situation and gather allies against you, Mirandee (that and a dollar will get me a ride on that bus with you; no thanks). If I may repeat something someone said to me earlier today, "It is not all about you,".

That's all I have to say for now.

Oh, and thank you for tempering your brutal words with a few nice ones. I appreciate that. I'm glad you still think I have a good heart, despite all the horrible and manipulative things you unfairly accuse me of.

posted May 02, 2007 07:49 PM         

Thank god.

posted May 02, 2007 08:47 PM         

quote:

---

It's just TINK that you come off as some sort of god like source of knowledge. Are you really as high and mighty as you project?
I would think that if you had studied as much as you claim, that you would project more humility in your posts. All I detect is superiority and arrogance. But this could simply be my perception.

---

I think I'll print that one out and leave it where I can see it for those moments requiring a full belly laugh at the purely absurd. Thanks, BlueRoamer!

******

Perceptions and assumptions and accusations, regardless of how many veils are tossed on them. We always end up back here. I'm glad my chair is comfy.

******

HSC

Well much could be said but what else could really be conveyed? Is it useless or is it not?

******

Highly_Inflammable

Well, I'll agree that "if" is not a place of reality but I disagree that no one lives there.

In many ways, most people live there.

They could be happy or at peace

IF

they had more money

they were healthy

they were famous

they had more knowledge

they were more spiritual

they had more land

they had more things

they had a good relationship

their parents hadn't done this or that

they hadn't experienced this or that

One of the sources of greatest suffering for individuals is their longing for "IFs", many of which never were, are or will be.

As such, using an example of an "IF" is not beyond the bounds of reason considering how well acquainted people are with their "IFs".

However, his example of that IF is not of something we will or even want to experience, at least not precisely. The point is not imitation ... it's empathy. And it's not justification for someone's actions, either. Just understanding and the forgiveness that flows from trying to put your Self in that person's situation. It isn't about non-judgement as that is not forgiveness, compassion or peace.

If you were her then you would be her. If she were you then she would be you. And behind that simplicity is the idea that there is something that unites us all ... there is something in me which is her and vice versa. It makes as much sense to be unforgiving or uncompassionate towards another as it does to be that way towards yourself ... which is none at all. And once we forgive and have compassion towards everyone, ourselves included, then we achieve "inner" o personal peace. And if we all did that, then there would truly be Peace.

Just my take anyway.

******

posted May 02, 2007 09:28 PM         

In the first place I was referring to the quote you put in here about ailments when I was giving my opinion and thoughts about blame.

In the second place, who is to say who's cross is heavier to carry or worse than someone else's cross? You would never see me doing that or saying that. Our crosses are our crosses. We deal with them. Same applies to other people's crosses. Who is to compare which cross is worse? Mine is enough for me to deal with. We are in real sad shape if go around comparing our crosses to other people's crosses. It is our responsibility to pick up and carry our own crosses. That is all. Either we do that or we buckle under the weight of our crosses. We allow those crosses to determine our actions and behavior. If Jesus fell 3 times under the weight of his cross on the way to calvary then it is okay if we fall under the weight of our crosses from time to time. However, if you noticed each time Jesus fell under the weight he got back up. The last time he fell someone helped him to carry his cross. An example of what we are supposed to do for each other.

What I stated about Kurt Cobain (and you can see that as lack of compassion for him on my part if you choose to believe that) is true. His drug addiction may have been initially caused due to the pain he experienced but the suicide was his choice. Kurt Cobain was a victim by his own choosing when it came to the drugs and how he carried his crosses in life. There are those people who will pick up and carry their crosses in life and there are those who will refuse to carry their crosses. Ultimately the choice is ours to make. I do not judge him for his choice. I do feel sorry for him. But I don't idolize or make a hero out of him because he committed suicide. I don't make a hero out of him because he suffered from a stomach ailment or was a depressive type personality either. It would of been in how he dealt with that suffering, how he overcame it and went on to live a productive and creative life that would have made him a hero to me. Everyone suffers something. Life is rough in some way for all of us. It's what we do in spite of it or because of it that make us heroes. It's sad when someone takes their own life. But it's even sadder and my sympathy lies more with those they leave behind. They are the ones who now have a cross to carry through life that he passed onto them. Which is what we do when we refuse to carry our crosses in life. We pass it onto someone else or the world to carry for us. Because all of our actions have a ripple effect on those around us and the world. Anyone who doesn't see that and know it has no concept of the oneness of the universe and all of creation.

I do not blame Kurt Cobain. But I do not idolize him or see him as some kind of heroic martyr either. I see him as someone to be pitied. My mother, due to a housefire when I was 3 years old, lived her life from that day on with a scarred face. Yet she carried that cross well. She lived a productive life. She raised 3 children and still went to parties and enjoyed life. She was sometimes treated unkindly and cruelly by people. To say I have no compassion for the suffering of others after growing up with my mom's suffering is a judgment call on your part that is not validated by my life experience, HSC. What I have is only pity for someone like Kurt Cobain who I do not see as heroic in carrying his cross in life while I have the example of my mother and her strength who carried her cross very heroically who is and will always be a heroine in my eyes. She was a Sag by the way with a Leo moon just like my daughter, Lialei. I see the strength in Lia as I saw in my mom. Indominable strength.

Those are the things I admire and see as heroic in other people. Those are the things that I romanticize in other people if I romanticize others at all. Not suicide. Van Gogh cut off his ear and sent it to a woman. He lost an ear and still didn't get the woman. So self mutilation did nothing to help his cause. Neither does suicide.

posted May 02, 2007 09:37 PM         

quote:

---

I dont really want to bring your kids into this, Mirandee, and I dont think you do either (you know I've been backstage). Suffice to say that I know they would agree with me that your parenting methods leave something to be desired, and, anyway, you are not my mother.

Thank god.

---

That was cheap and low. No parent is without mistakes. Sometimes it is easier than at other times. When you raise some children you might find this to be true for you too.

You still haven't learned the difference between private emails/conversations and public forums I see.

Guess what. Everyone has problems. No matter what it is, life can be hard, and a pile of dung sometimes. Sometimes you get dumped on by life. Sometimes you don't. How you deal with it is up to you.

If you're going to trip, guess what, you always do it alone, even if other people are there, cause no one else lives inside your head. How else do you expect to learn anything? It's not a toy you know. They're called tools for a reason.

posted May 02, 2007 11:21 PM         

I dont think it was out of bounds. Yes, every parent has faults, but not every parent holds up their parenting methods as a public service announcement. If you hold something up for public scrutiny, you had better be ready to have it scrutinized.

Mirandee's tough love is flawed as hell, and she has the life experience to prove it; or, rather, her children do. You may think that is unfair for me to post, but I disagree. Some social boundaries are only there to protect our vanity and our bullsh!t. Mirandee tried to use her own life to illustrate her point, and it struck me how absurdly selective she was in what she told us. I am not about to air her dirty laundry, no matter how many insults she levels at me. But I am willing to drop a hint or two when I know she is full of it.

"When you raise some children you might find this to be true for you too."

HA! I dont have to raise kids to learn that one. I learned it from having parents. And I know it better than most grandparents do. Which is why I probably will never have children. At least, not until after studying about it as much as a medical student studies to become a doctor. That's how important I think it is. Not everybody is fit to practice medicine, or raise children. That's how seriously I take this. And, if I did have a kid, I would almost certainly adopt. The population problem is growing every day, and there are countless children out there who need love. I think it is selfish, if not stupid, to bring a soul into this world (especially if you are not a wealthy, saintly genius in a very healthy marriage) when there are souls already here who need your love. ((No doubt, I'll make a few enemies for expressing that one.))

quote:

---

Guess what. Everyone has problems. No matter what it is, life can be hard, and a pile of dung sometimes. Sometimes you get dumped on by life. Sometimes you don't. How you deal with it is up to you.

---

It would be funny, if it were not so tragic, how often this kind of insensitivity is paraded around like it is some kind of earthy wisdom. I know everyone has problems. Unlike you, I do not begrudge people the opportunity to vent their frustrations. What you see as my whining, is a brave act of vulnerability. I know I leave myself open to attacks from people like you, who cant stand the sight of someone who asks for help; when they themselves are, perhaps, obsessively stoic, occupied with hiding all their pain, and pretending that everything is hunkydory with them. I mean, "Everyone has problems; mine aren't special and neither are yours, so let's not talk about it and draw attention to ourselves; let's just bottle it all up inside and die a little every day, until we are able to walk around all numb like the living dead; - or, if we must vent it, lets agree to do it by being insensitive to people, rather than showing our own sensitivity; because everyone knows that showing insensitivity is more respectable than showing sadness - oops - i mean, showing everyone what a whiny little b!tch you are,". I don't know what your ways of "dealing with it" are, but this is mine; I express it, I talk it out, and I thank profusely anyone who shows me the slightest tenderness, without judging me for showing my pain in public. If you every asked for a shoulder to cry on, you would be hard-pressed to find a softer, warmer one than my own. But you might not find me so ready to offer it, now that you've offered such a stone-cold shoulder to me.

I disagree that tripping is always done alone. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it involves everyone present, everyone you know, and the whole world besides. But that is another thread entirely. I think, if you go into yourself, without going out of yourself, that's probably not tripping. Maybe you need a stronger dose? I agree, it is not a toy, and it is a tool, but, it is not really something you can be prepared for. If that were the case, it would not be what it is. You simply "Buy the ticket, take the ride," (-hunter s. thompson). Sometimes its bumpy, sometimes it ain't, but if you come out the other side, you come out with something worth sharing.

posted May 02, 2007 11:37 PM         

It looks like it fits here!!!

"Give your difference, welcome my difference, unify all difference in the larger whole -- such is the law of growth. The unifying of difference is the eternal process of life -- the creative synthesis, the highest act of creation."

-- M. P. Follett