posted May 04, 2007 01:22 PM         

Thanks for clarifying that. Me was wondering what you had said to him about me. However, it only p!ssed me off for a minute or two because I know that in spite of our differences and at times those differences colliding as it is with all kids and parents, we can talk and work it out and always have. I know what our relationship as mother and daugher truly is , so I figured that what you told him was not that bad and as it turned out, I was right.

Yes, the anger is there when you are hurt, but I am glad that you understand it is not directed at you and your feelings or sensitive nature, but like it is with any mother, anger over what may have caused that hurt. It's kind of a protective reflex that I have as a mom. A compassionate and empathetic reflex as well as I have been hurt many, many times in my life. I think all moms want to protect their kids from any kind of hurt that we may have had. Even though we realize that is impossible.

I want you to know that I do keep in mind the good qualites about Steve. I have mentioned on this thread to him that I do like him and I do feel that he has a good heart. It is often overlooked on these threads that even though I am a Taurus sun, I do have that Pisces moon and Cancer rising. Due that Pisces moon and the asc. water sign of Cancer, I am very intuitive and due to my caring and interest in other other people, very intuitive into them. I also have read a lot on the subject of psychology and that is an interest of mine. I intuit people by their actions, their words, the way they phrase things on internet forums, and I pick up on feelings even on the internet. So yes, I intuit Steve's compassion and all his good qualities as well as other things and I don't overlook those things at all. If that were not the case I would have just written him off as nothing more than just another run of the mill jerk. But I know from what I intuit that he is not a jerk by nature, just that like all of us he can be at times.

As, I stated in my last post, regarding how I and the others here are speaking to HSC directly and honestly, I don't question the methods for the reason that I gave. Some folks just have to at times be hit on the head with a hammer to get it. God doesn't always deal us the way we expect he will.

Even Jesus was not always gentle with the Pharisees and Scribes. He called them at times a "brood of vipers!" and directly told them when they said God was their father, that their "father is the father of this world who was a murderer and a liar from the beginning." Even Jesus knew that sometimes people have to hear the hard truth. They didn't accept it from him either and fought back. Jesus was crucified for his honesty and directness in bringing them the truth. Why then, would it be any different for any of us? Not that I feel I am being crucified. But neither is HSC. Telling HSC what he wants to hear and speaking to him in gentle tones has not worked for him on these threads. Maybe, just maybe, God felt it was time to bring out the hammer. Whether or not that serves HSC any useful purpose is purely and simply his choice to make.

Who knows? Maybe Steve will resist and dimiss all that has been said and hate me and everyone here and feel abused but down the road, years from now, he may be ready and will recall it. Or not. Whatever. It's his choice.

posted May 04, 2007 03:31 PM         

~BLUEBIRD~
anagram
I BURBLED!
(with happiness! As in.....bluebird of
happiness!)

posted May 04, 2007 03:54 PM         

quote:

---

Lately, I am seeing a side of Mirandee which all but eclipses the other sides I have seen. It is very hard to recall the soft words she has spoken in the past, when she is still busy screaming cruel words in the present. I happen to know I'm not alone in this (not as alone as she appears to be in her furor against me, at least). When she is in possession of herself, I enjoy reading what she has to say and communnicating with her. But, once she gets worked up with a cause, there is evidently no reasoning with her, or appealing to her better nature, and, at that point, I've just got to walk out. There are things not to say, and ways not to say them, and, when she is p!ssed (as she so often is), she is unmindful of both. I cannot reason with a person in that condition, and I will not exhaust myself trying to do so. The wisest thing I could do is exercise the self-control not to respond to her (for she takes every unflattering word as a provocation to raise her voice louder and louder, and talk longer and longer - mostly just repeating herself, and emptying her arsenal of insults until its time to go reload), and not even to read her posts; for I myself am far too easily tempted at that point to give her a piece of the darkest part of my mind. And that is as unhealthy for me as it is for her.

---

Thanks for making my point for me, HSC. My point was that you readily see the flaws and shortcomings of others but you fail to see them in yourself. You don't see that you do exactly what you have accused me of doing here.

My point was that you feel justified in all your actions due to your vast intellect and passion yet you do not tolerate the passion in other people. You don't even acknowledge it in fact. You insulted me first, mister on the Yellow Wax thread. Lest you forget that. You slung unfounded accusations at me first on that thread. Okay for you not okay for me let you know that I didn't like the insult and the unfounded accusations. Truth is you would have forever ignored my POLITE inquiry regarding what happened to that thread at Yellow Wax if no one else had responded to it and also questioned it and you know it. Truth is you neither thought of it affecting others who took their time to post on that thread nor did you care. And you know that too.

I speak with passion because I am a passionate person. Go to astrology and look at my chart that I posted there. Sorry, but you are not the only poetic soul or the only passionate person with convictions, principals and morals on this planet.

You place certain standards on others, HSC sometimes unrealistic standards that you DO NOT apply to yourself. Because, well, because I guess it is due to you feelings of just being so damn special and specially graced with gifts that no one else has.

It's not a matter of breaking any arrows or burying any hatchets. There is no unfounded reason for my anger and I will not allow you or anyone else to invalidate my feelings. People feel things for a reason. All feelings are valid. Even when it might be just be an misunderstanding. I WILL NOT ALLOW YOU TO PUT IT ALL OFF ON ME, HSC!!! There, now I really did yell. So kiss my butt if you don't like it.

My anger was due to you deleting a thread without having the courteousy to even explain why to the people at Yellow Wax and especially the people who posted on that thread. "Oh, I did it by mistake and I don't have to explain that goof up to these people. Being so much beneath me anyway they don't deserve an explanation or for me to even acknowledge it. And how dare they question me." That is precisely your attitude, HSC.

That was the only reason for my anger. You can try to present it as something else if you want but that's your problem not mine and far from the truth and reality.

posted May 04, 2007 06:58 PM         

y tu, brutus?

i didnt even know i was quoting you when i said "everybody hurts",
it is not about you,
and i'm sory if i missed a post you directed at me,
i didnt see my name on it.
again, not about you.
i could only read half of your post just now,
i dont understand the need for all this abuse.
i thought we were cool with each other in YWAA.
this is kind of out of left field.
i dont know what you want from me.
Your posts arent perfect either.
So I have an ego. so what?
would you be so offended if you didnt have one yourself?
who cares anyway.
let the baby have his bottle,
and let me have my ego,
which is, by and by,
big as a mountain,
and small as a gnat.
life is a trip, let me have mine.
seriously, who cares?
message board politics and bones to pick.
this stuff is so petty.
oops, are my high ideals showing again,-
oops, i mean, my ego?
who even cares.

posted May 04, 2007 10:39 PM         

I would be doing my best to ignore your existence.

posted May 04, 2007 10:56 PM         

quote:

---

life is a trip, let me have mine.

---

Hey TINK, I wanna do a cliche too Live and Let Live

posted May 04, 2007 11:12 PM         

It takes two to endlessly debate.

And what's so wrong with debate, anyway?

If people cared more about finding and understanding the truth than they do about guarding their present beliefs, they would welcome debate as a means to reform their beliefs, so that they will be fortified by a profound understanding of the truth; then no holes could be poked in them.

I welcome debate. What I object to are complacent and superfical statements of beliefs. And the rabid judgmentalism that seems to be the common defense against anyone who calls their apathetic self-satisfaction with their beliefs into question.

posted May 04, 2007 11:18 PM         

Didn't say there was anything *wrong* with debate (many Libran Suns LOVE debate )..... but perhaps excessive or *unwanted* debate is where I was going with that..... personally, I'd rather have my own little belief system and find my own meandering trudging little way without anyone feeling compelled to "set me straight"..... just wishful thinking.....

posted May 04, 2007 11:23 PM         

If you dont like my questions and answers, you are "free" to go on ignoring them. That is your choice. But dont imagine that the fault is mine for having a voice which is not sympathetic to your agenda.

posted May 04, 2007 11:31 PM         

quote:

---

If you dont like my questions and answers, ignore them. That is your choice to make. but dont imagine that the fault is mine for having a voice which is not sympathetic to your agenda.

---

posted May 05, 2007 12:17 AM         

"Angry as she often does" get. I only get angry with reason. I never have just out and attacked anyone on these threads without provocation just for the hell of it. You find one post here where I did and show it to me and all of us. I retort. I may retort in anger. Yes, I agree with that. Anger is a normal human emotion like any other emotion. I just love it when people p!ss you off and then tell you that we are not supposed to get angry. LOL I never do anything but try and get along with others unless they first insult me and attack me as you DID at Yellow Wax and have continued to do on this thread after every post I make even when I am attempting to be nice to you in the post.

If you are going to run away from my retorts to your insults and false accusations like a puppy dog with his tail tucked under his legs, then stop coming at me with the insults and accusations. Actually you aren't giving up as you stated. You keep coming back with them. So you can just can the "poor me I am being picked on by the mean lady" routine. You hurl the insults and expect what? Me to just take it because you feel I should? Good luck with that!! I have too much self-respect to do that.

You flippingly justify your betrayal of my daughter's trust in confiding something to you. Not surprising at all. I am sure from what I have seen here about your double standards regarding yourself and other people that if she laid out some of the things you confided to her in private conversation on the threads here at LL in your mind there would be nothing that could justify it. It would be seen as betrayal coming from her whereas in your case it is not betrayal of trust, because you, of course, had your reasons for doing it not once but twice to her!!!!!

Also in reference to what you said about me having a "cause." Since you brought it up, yes, I have many causes. You flatter yourself if you think you are one of them. My causes deal with justice, peace, the poor, etc. They deal with people who truly do need and want help. I gave up a year of my life to serve my country and my community in AmeriCorps Vista to do just that. Yes, I do have passion for those causes. I served as a Vista in shelters for abused women. Went into homeless shelters. Guess that is why I lack patience for whiners or people who put in posts saying send me your "stupid" phone number because I am bored and lonely.

What are your causes, HSC? What have you given of yourself for those causes? Helping children might be a good way to start to apply some of your passion and come outside yourself and see what suffering there truly is in the real world.

Now lets see how you twist that into my bragging as you did me using my older son and his drinking and drug problem as an example that people can change but only if they want to and admitting there is a problem is the first step. You twisted that example into my bragging what a perfect mom I am so you could betray my daughter's confidence and twist a trivial thing she said, omitting the rest of what she said, into my kids not thinking I am good mother. I know better. Me thinks I am not the one here with the hidden agenda.

Unless you sling some other insult or false accusation at me, HSC I am done with you. Good luck with your life. I wish only the best for you as I do for all people.

posted May 05, 2007 12:46 AM         

At Yellow Wax on a thread of yours just about a week or so ago, Fayte came in and gave her thoughts and opinions on the subject.

You came back at her and said, " Fayte, you should start your own thread. Better yet, you should start your own religion." That is truly how open you are to debate or opinions that differ from yours. You are rude to people who don't think and believe as you do.

Let's be honest here because you are telling Fayte something to her face ( so to speak ) on this thread when she knows otherwise. I know otherwise too because I read that thread. That seemed to hurt Fayte and she told you that she would get off your thread. She said she could take a hint. You just went on spouting off your great, wise thoughts and opinions and did not even notice that she was hurt nor did you apologize for your rudeness to her.

That was another one of your threads that I ignored because I have learned where they go and I have learned how open you are to debate.

quote:

---

If people cared more about finding and understanding the truth than they do about guarding their present beliefs, they would welcome debate as a means to reform their beliefs, so that they will be fortified by a profound understanding of the truth; then no holes could be poked in them.

---

Who's truth? Your truth? Honestly, Steve, just so you aren't a hypocrite all of your life, no one guards their present beliefs more than you do. Just what you said here has holes in it so large I could drive a friggin big rig through it. No one enters into a debate, least of all you, with the intent of having their beliefs reformed. They debate their beliefs, they give their thoughts and opinions and say why they believe as they do. Any changes to belief systems comes about from within people and their dialog with God and their life experiences that might give them new revelations. Beliefs are formed through time. Not because someone who fancies himself as a sage tells them otherwise.

What you said here only further convinces me that your whole purpose in debates is to force your beliefs on other people which is why you get so defensive when people disagree with you. Even attack them as you did with Fayte on that thread.

posted May 05, 2007 01:01 AM         

HSC.....
I more often than not.....express my opinion or put out a theory....
NOT for discussion, but food for thought. I do not care if one believes it or not.
I may not buy said theory any more than what another has presented.
But I will often present an alternative to what another has said....
Especially when they tout what they believe as the absolute truth, without any empirical evidence to back it up.
What I come closest to actually believing, not simply theorizing;
I have not mentioned to anyone but those closest to me in my offline life.
I shall not even consider presenting such as absolutes until
I know beyond any doubt and have proof.
You speak to Zala and Mirandee as if they are foolish ignorant children, incapable of understanding your magnificence!
I have learned much from them both.
I continue to learn from them.
You said:

quote:

---

What I object to are complacent and superfical statements of beliefs. And the rabid judgmentalism that seems to be the common defense against anyone who calls their apathetic self-satisfaction with their beliefs into question.

---

posted May 05, 2007 01:22 AM         

quote:

---

The secret of contentment is knowing how to enjoy what you have, and to be able to lose all desire for things beyond your reach. { Lin Yutang}

---

posted May 05, 2007 03:49 AM         

The sad thing about it is that Steve does have a lot of interesting things to say. I do listen to him as I do everyone else and consider his thoughts and opinions. He has said many things that I have agreed with. But I don't agree with everything he says and that is only natural with all of us.

Like you, I just give my thoughts and opinions based on my own belief system and people can take it or leave it.

What is sad is that it gets to the point where you are leary of giving an opinion or your thoughts on his threads because you don't know when he is going to insult you or what. It's like walking on egg shells. Like Tink mentioned here on this thread. The mood swings are hard for anyone to deal with.

I have stated that I won't argue about religion because we all have our own journies and there is so much that we don't know about God etc. that arguing over who is right and who is wrong when it comes to religion is futile. Chances are we are all a little right and a little wrong. Besides that, I respect the beliefs of others, even if my beliefs may be different and would like the same consideration in return.

Discussions should be based on give and take. Mostly giving our opinions our thoughts and giving each other things to think about. Whether we come to accept that opinion or dimiss it is up to each of us. Doesn't make us dense just because something in our spirit tells us that just does not ring true.

quote:

---

I welcome debate. What I object to are complacent and superfical statements of beliefs. And the rabid judgmentalism that seems to be the common defense against anyone who calls their apathetic self-satisfaction with their beliefs into question.

---

1. It's only your perception that the statements are complacent and superfical. A judgment you make about the opinions of others.

2. Who has the right to call the beliefs of others into question? Who gave you that authority to question the beliefs of others while holding your beliefs to be "truth?"

3. I am satisfied with my beliefs but still searching and still learning. It's judgement call on your part regarding others as being complacent in their beliefs.

All that you said in those statements, Steve is "rabid judgmentalism" on your part. Big hole, giant hole! Does anyone else see that enormous hole as well?

Hopefully it's equally okay for us to also poke at the holes in Steve's thoughts and point them out. But I won't go to the bank on it.

posted May 05, 2007 05:06 AM         

and well, i'd just like to say.....

i love you man!

posted May 05, 2007 08:11 AM         

I have never had a bad trip...though that might be cos Ive only tripped about 4 times.
Or it could just be me and my beautiful pysche
I get out into nature and have a blast.
I fall in love with all of nature.
And all of nature falls back in love with me and shows me wondrous things I never saw before.
I see greens like greens are meant to be seen.
And the roses blossom just that bit more under my appreciative gaze.
Its magnificent...and natural.

Ive been wanting to trip now for a while but alas since they made 'shrooms illegal...its been kinda hard to find.
HSC, you dont have to trip alone.
I'll trip with you.
I imagine the conversations would be beautiful.
With you soaring to those heights only eagles dare soar.
And I , along for the ride, soaring just as high as you dare...though my bare feet remain firmly rooted to the ground.
Allowing us back down, to gather our composure, reflect....only to run andsoar again once more.