posted June 28, 2007 05:19 AM         

Tell me LTT..how often do you speak to him on the phone? Never mind.. I know....

Ironic.. is that what you call it HSC?

Is it IRONIC... a woman that posts on a Military forum just lost her husband. SHE is the widow you speak of. Do you really care for her? Do you really feel her pain?

She wrote how much her husband believed in what he was doing in Iraq. He gave his life to make a better place for the women and children that were treated less than animals.

Have you seen the footage of the Iraqi people praising the US Soldiers for what WE have done to make their lives better, rebuilding the infrastructure, saving the lives of those that had their family members tortured for speaking out against Saddam?

What about the story of the US Soldier that was wounded and then cared for by an Afghani family because they WELCOMED our forces for freeing them from an oppressive Taliban government?

Nope.. you forget those things because they to not make sense in your world of anger.

Please do not tell me that you care about my husband and his fellow Soldiers. IF you did you would be like others here that may not support the war, but they care about our men and women in battle. THEY do NOT post the pics that you have posted, making our Soldier's look like mindless fools.

LTT.. you need to simmer down. You are his mouth piece and you change stances like the wind. I feel sorry for you. I hope you can find peace on your own without having someone to "show" you the way.

So, while people like you and HSC pretend to care, many of us actually do. I live this fight, I know this fight, I counsel the women who have lost their husbands because of this fight.

Thank God they don't belong to LL, because if they did their hearts would be shattered.

But hey, as long as you all get to live the self righteous BS you think is "magick- enlightenment" go ahead.

For me.. I will keep counseling and holding my fellow Military wives, husbands, mothers and fathers that have lost our loved ones, despite your BS.

I hope you are proud of yourselves. Unfortunately, the way KARMA works... you will be in a similar position....

posted June 28, 2007 05:28 AM         

But PLEASE, PLEASE don't call me 'his mouth piece'. This is something I never am. I had hoped to sound without prejudice. I speak for MYSELF. I am detached from others. I have NEVER spoke to HSC on the phone....I am not that close to anyOne on LL because I don't have the Time to visit here as often as some.

posted June 28, 2007 05:37 AM         

Have a great life. I hope it all works out for you and may YOU never have to experience a thread showing those you love as monsters.

------------------
Welcome back from the Sandbox Bear...I love you...Forever and a Day....

www.IMWITHFRED.com

posted June 28, 2007 05:40 AM         

I just posted this, below, in another thread. It sums up what I have been trying to say here.

And by the way, as far as those I love, I feel we should try and love everyOne....disprove by all means but never hate the soul.

I have also been thinking, that to abandon the ego (if that is the right way of putting it).....I'll re-phrase it.....To keep the ego balanced we need to keep a balanced view of things. If someOne pays a compliment to another, I feel it is important for the person who receives the compliment not to let it feather the deceptive nest of vanity (lol, right now I couldn't think of another way to put it!)

The important thing to remember is that we all have our strengths and weaknesses, our positive and negative.
We all have it in us to be selfish as we do self-less; if one was completely selfless, however, they would get burnt out and this would be self-defeating.

THE QUESTION IS- HOW do we find a BALANCE?

It is important to remember each of us has within us. This is seeing the bigger picture.

And THIS I feel, folks, is the basis that forms all the drama we see here in LL. We are not seeing the bigger picture. It is an endless battle of the fight for energy....someone gives a compliment....someone takes a compliment...they feel energized by this....later on, someone gives criticism, someone reacts to it.....as a result people start to feel DRAINED of energy.....

posted June 28, 2007 05:53 AM         

I will NOT post to you again on this thread. I have my suspicions about you, but I will keep them to myself.

Good luck in your life, and again, may you never find yourself in a position where those you love are dying and you have to comfort widows.

------------------
Welcome back from the Sandbox Bear...I love you...Forever and a Day....

www.IMWITHFRED.com

posted June 28, 2007 05:54 AM         

quote:

---

It is time you finally stopped getting involved with something that has nothing to do with you.

---

Point taken. Maybe. But if I went out of my way to rescue a being in distress, for EXAMPLE, an injured animal.....Then I am getting myself involved in another living being's business.....

This is what everyOne seems to be doing, getting involved, in one way or another. Notice that I say everyOne. We are One.

There is no 'WE' and 'THEM'

Yes

There is no 'WE' and 'THEM'

posted June 28, 2007 06:47 AM         

Sorry for not making any sense.

posted June 28, 2007 11:08 AM         

quote:

---

Well, it doesnt concern you in the least, anyway,
so, if it bothers you, you are free to walk away.
You have my blessing and my envy.
No one is dragging your name through the mud,
and this isnt about you.

---

EXCUSE ME!!!! This does concern me as one of the moderators at FFA, HSC. When I volunteered to be one of the mods at FFA I stated that if I became a mod I would do all I could to stop this kind of thing. It concerns me that I have gotten emails from people saying that they are either leaving LL of thinking of leaving and your name came up as their reason why.

I know that you love this kind of thing, HSC but other people at FFA do not come here to watch you flex your intellectual muscles in arguments by attempting to get the upper hand and outwit your opponent. In the last disagreement you stated at Yellow Wax to a friend, and this is not an exact quote " You should have seen my last post. I was shining more than ever."

This is about me. It's about everyone here at FFA and LL because it pollutes the atmosphere around here. People are getting tired of your stuff, HSC.

LTT I know you mean well, but when others in their attempts at peacemaking intervene in disagreements it only serves to keep the argument going.

I have no objection to the intent of this thread. It's the right of all here to voice their dissent against the war. It's the right of all those here who support the war to voice their opinions. Pid did not say you had no right to voice anti-war sentiments. She gave her objections about some of the pictures posted here. It is her right to do that and due to the fact that her husband is in the military and was until recently serving in Iraq anyone with any sensitivity can understand why she objected to some of those pictures.

I am anti-war but not anti-military. Every country needs a military. I am very much against the Iraq war and certainly anyone who goes to GU knows this and knows that I am by no stretch of the imagination a fan of Bush and company. However, I do agree with Pid that some people go way too far to the extremes in their anti-war protests. They go too far when they blame the men and women who serve in the military. They go too far when they call them "murderers." Blame Bush. Blame the corporations who are making billions of dollars off the war but the men and women serving are not to blame. They are doing the job they were trained to do. They did not ask for this war nor did they start it. If they had their choice they would much prefer to be home with their loved ones.

I do not think that all the people serving in this war are in agreement over the purpose of the war. However, there are many who do believe that their purpose is to bring democracy to Iraq. Those people are no less following their conscience and their values and principals than we are who oppose the war. They just view it differently. Their right to do so. It's far easier for we who dissent against the war by signing the petitions, attending peace rallies etc. than it is for those serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. One could say they sacrifice more. They sacrifice by being parted from those they love. They put their lives on the line on a daily basis. We who protest the war have it easier as our lives are not on the line.

Do soldiers kill people? Yes, but I'm certain they don't enjoy doing it. I'm certain that it haunts them and will for the rest of their lives. Yet, who here, if put into a situation like that where it is your life or the other persons's life not pull the trigger?

That's why war is so horrible. The troops don't start the wars, the innocent peoples of the countries at war don't start it, governments do. Politicians and corporations who are making billions of dollars off wars are the one who start it and will continue to do so, one corporate war after another. The people of all countries just want to live their lives in peace and that is why governments lie about their reasons for war and invent incidents to sell the war to the people. Blame them. Blame the military/industrial complex. Not the troops who have to fight the wars.

HSC, if you had refrained from being sarcastic to Pid as soon she protested some of those pictures posted here by telling her that you knew she would show up here the argument wouldn't have began. It was a given that Pid would voice her opinion here because her husband serves in the military. You knew that when you began this thread so there was no reason to be sarcastic with her when she did voice her opinion.

Just as all the peoples in countries want to live their lives in peace so do the folks who come here to FFA. If they wanted to sit around all day arguing and discussing the war and politics they would go to GU to post.

How dare you say that this does not have anything to do with me or others here at FFA, HSC. This is not about you either. It is about all who come to LL as this a public forum. LL is not your personal blog site.

The argument with Pidaua either stops now and we get back on topic or you can consider yet another thread you were involved in closed. That is my decision as one of moderators at FFA to make in order to keep the peace here at FFA. So it is not I who am free to walk away, HSC. It is you who are free to walk away or have this thread closed. Make your choice.

posted June 28, 2007 11:13 AM         

Anyways, all for one and one for all (quoting LotusHeartOne) - easy said than done, and the bane of our world will always be polytricks!

And I also hope you have not forgotten this button:

posted June 28, 2007 11:21 AM         

Sattvic, No, I have not forgotten and we crossed posts but in my post I told HSC as much.

posted June 28, 2007 11:29 AM         

Twinkle Stars. Thank you for sticking with the topic.

posted June 28, 2007 11:45 AM         

To be fair, Mirandee (lovely Mirandee).....it sounds as if you are siding with Pidaua as I did with HSC (because I FELT things were unfair).....This business- of TAKING SIDES- is only fanning the flames of the fire, once more!!!

I do laugh at times as I listen to the verbal acrobatics of others as they fight, but I only because I have a sense of humor....and certainly not with spite in my heart....It must be said however that I am not laughing now....the whole thing has left me feeling drained and sad

posted June 28, 2007 11:47 AM         

TWINKLE TOES!!!!

CUTE, BUT MAYBE TRUE?????

Maybe Twinkle Stars, have Twinkle Toes!!!!!

posted June 28, 2007 11:49 AM         

Do I welcome you to the Asylum or to Utopia? hahahahaha

posted June 28, 2007 12:05 PM         

This is why I totally adore you. You have a way of taking the worse situations in life and brighting them up with your humor and gentleness.

You always manage to bring me back to center, to my core.

You're a gem and I am blessed to be able to call you a friend.

posted June 28, 2007 12:45 PM         

Pid is a friend of mine but I intend as a mod to not let my friendships interfere with my decisions. Which is why I requested that both Pid and HSC edit their posts regardng the privacy of the woman being discussed here.

It may appear that I am taking sides but actually if you go back and read the beginning of this argument you can clearly see that it was HSC's sarcastic remarks to Pid when she voiced her disapproval over some of the pictures here that began the argument. If it were Pid who started it all I would have said so.

Sure Pid had a choice as to react to his remarks or not. We all have that choice under the circumstances. It does take two to make an argument and keep it going so Pid is part of it. I am not denying that at all and I'm sure that Pid would be the first to admit her part.

You may not know this but Pid and I were not always friends. We have been debating politics for nearly 3 years at GU and we have gotten into some real cat fights in the past being on opposite sides of the political spectrum.

Pidaua is a very forgiving person and does not hold grudges. I am a forgiving person and I do not hold grudges. For that reason we both were able to overcome the past, let go of it and bridge the gap between us to become friends. I highly respect Pidaua for the person she is. We still don't agree politically and that is fine as long as there is understanding and respect and the ability to have heated debates without actually hating the other person. Pidaua is passionate in her beliefs. So am I. We are both passionate by nature. So things can heat up when we disagree. The thing is we are not out to change the beliefs of the other person, we instead respect those beliefs and realize we are both equally passionate about them. We both have a point and we both have some truths to add to the story.

I am not a perfect human being so I am not going to make a perfect moderator. I will make mistakes. My concern here is not with taking sides with either HSC or Pidaua. It is in maintaining the peace at FFA.

You are damned if you do and you will be damned if you do nothing so you may as well follow your own conscience and do what you deem right. I am trying to be fair and as objective as I can be.

posted June 28, 2007 01:10 PM         

We are not disagreeing, it seems to me, on the war and the part played by the soldiers. You say I should not refer to people who kill innocent civilians as "murderers", simply because they are only doing what the corrupt higher-ups tell them to. That is your opinion. In my view, all murderers are pawns, subject to forces which pervert their reason and misdirect their wills. The difference between a soldier and Bush is vast, but not so vast. Bush also thinks he is doing what is right. His heart is too small to embrace people who are different from him, so, he does not see it as wrong to murder them. His conscience is underdeveloped, but he does not go against it. No one ever does, really. We only reach the limits of our consciences, and slip over or around them, without seeing.

I have felt the desire to leave LL on account of petty disputes like the one between pid and I as well, I have just not written to you, and expected any disciplinary action to be taken on my behalf. Some people walk away, some people appeal to the authorites to silence others, and some people stick up for themselves. I'm not saying what is the "right" thing - we are all different, - but this is my way of dealing. Mystic Melody has expressed her own discomfort here, and I believe your name came up. I've personally been a private audience to many complaints against a variety of posters, but I would not assume the complaints I hear are the only ones, and, if I were a Moderator, I would not assume the right to silence people for offending a select few. Pid and I have kept this dispute localized on this one thread. Those who are involved are those who chose to get involved. If people don't like it, they don't have to open the thread. That is called "taking personal responsibility". Blaming me, or pid, or whoever's names came up besides mine (which you did not mention, in your impartiality, although I could mention quite a few) is not the answer. We are all on somebody's sh!t list. That's life. Randall has been very clear about what he sees as worthy of censorship on LL. These disputes are not one of those things, provided they do not devolve into obscenities or the airing of personal information. But, if you were to close this thread, it would not bother me. As long as Pid is not on this thread, dumping on me, I will not feel a responsibility to dump her own stuff back on her. I have tried to walk away several times and she continued to dump, so I defended myself and, yes, told her what I think of her.

My comment was not what started it. Pid's comment, "How sad. That is all I can say. How very horribly sad. Some people make changes by getting involved, while others simply post cartoons," came first. And my comment, "I was wondering when you would show," was a sincere one, and not degrading, as hers was. Please explain to me where you see sarcasm in that? Was I NOT wondering when she would show? My comment implied that the disrespectful tone she took, in communicating her offended feelings, was only to be expected, and was a mere speedbump to my efforts, which I had already anticipated, and so, was not too jostled by. If you read on, you would have noticed that I said I came back 5 minutes later to edit out that comment, not because I thought it was inherently wrong, but just so as not to rile her up. In that time, she had already managed to respond with a nasty assumption about my motives, and two insults. I corrected her assumption by telling her that I would rather not hear from her, and I said nothing about her insults. She persisted, and I proceeded to compose a thorough response to her, stating the facts of the case and my personal thought, feelings, and suspicions. She refused to debate the real issues, and, instead, reponded with a smug, evasive, passive aggressive response and comment on my "issues". I did not even acknowledge or respond to this bait of hers in the least way. I left it alone until she continued to badmouth me in another post, or two, or three. Only then did I get back involved to defend myself. If you are indeed fair and impartial, you will take these things into account, and address your authoritarian rebukes to her at least as much as you address yourself to me.

I understand how she could be offended for the sake of her husband, and for the people she knows personally, who are suffering on account of this war. I understand because I am offended as well, not by the messenger, or by the message, but, by the ones who are actually responsible for these crimes, and responsible for my duty to speak out against them. My compassion embraces Pid, Bear, all the soldiers, and all the widows and their families. But I go further. Because my compassion embraces all the people being victimized by this debacle, and because I see the entire thing as a pointless mess, I'm going to offend some people who want to believe that it is all happening for a solid gold reason. It is not. It is for nothing. I know it hurts to hear that. Don't blame me. Blame the government, and blame your own naive servility to those in positions of authority, who tell you where to go and whose lives and limbs to pulverize when you get there. I am not arguing that these soldiers are not brave men, making unimaginable sacrifices with the best intentions. That is a given, but it is not the whole story. These men and their families were lied to, and are still under the delusion of a lie. All their heroics are to be admired, but the fact that they are heroically slaughtering innocent people and children is not. History will prove me right on this. In the meantime, there is dissent and debate, and offended feelings on all sides. So be it.

I'm happy to return to the issues at any time. I am, after all, the one who raised them. Pid made this personal, not me. I'm just glad this thread is getting so much exposure, and that so many more people will get to see these pictures thanks to Pidaua, who we have to thank for keeping this thread alive.

HSC

[edited to add:]

I just went back to page 3 of this thread, and in the very post where Pid avoided the issues I raised, claiming she didnt want to get too involved (lol), she edited it to add all this stuff about my relationship with you-know-who. She surrepticiously added all sorts of slander, which I didnt even see until now, and may never have seen. Seriously, if the things she is saying are not my personal business, I don't know what is. Editing out this person's name, when everyone knows who we are talking about, is ridiculous, especially when you leave in all the slanderous things she is saying. Edit that bullsh!t out, or I am starting a thread with Randall's name in the heading.