posted October 01, 2003 09:17 AM              

First of all Zoka, it's not enough to be a good interpreter of astrological charts and symbolism. Part of being a good astrologer is knowing how to present things and learning HUMILITY. All astrologers, even the best of them make mistakes. While the planets are out there and unchangeable, the interpretation is human and therefore prone to mistakes.

I've been studying astrology for the past 3 years only and still a novice but if there is one thing I've learned it is the fact that this is a very complex art. Every planet and every aspect can manifest itself in a multidude of ways, some good some bad ,some mixed. The end result is unpredictable. At least it's not with 100% accuracy or even close to it.

I have a few of Hitler's aspects and some other aspects of serial killers. I also have aspects of genious. Let me tell you - I'm none of those things, lol.

Nackie, I've been looking a little at your son's chart. Seems to me you are a very strong influence in his life. All you can do is try not to be extra protective or dominating (Sat square Moon) while being encouraging and setting limits.

Your child has many "charm aspects" so I could see how he would charm ppl off their feet. He also has that introvert aspects and placements. Nothing wrong with them. Could actually work in his favor.

You will do well to strengthen his self esteem while at the same time instilling limits and values. The same chart I see can very well make him famous and successful southern hemisphere emphasis, Venus on MC, Sun and Moon in 11th).

Your child seems unusual (Ur ruller of Asc conj. Asc.) So what? That can be a very good thing.

Be careful of the image/perception of women you give him. (an advice that is good for ALL women with sons regardless of the charts those boys have).

Ultimately, you know your child best because you brought him into the world and you're the one that raised him.

Final remark - Noel Tyl, the famous astrologer always says -"A chart doesn't make a person, nor does one aspect, or two or 5. We work WITH the chart". It's a potential. It's not carved in stone.

posted October 01, 2003 12:14 PM              

I am not sure I should even response to your post, as I do not think YOUR post has any nice meaning or good wishes. You are just upset because I didn't gave you the intepretation you wanted about your fertility - and that is how your 'genious' aspects manifest itself: you do not listen! I never said you WON'T have kids, just to check your overall health, as the VIth AND the VIIIth AND XIIth house are aspected by squares. And they are not connected with the life-style, but with your health. And the mutable squares tend to react in a different way than cardinal or fixed squares - the health issues will be easy to cure (if any!). But there is another thing you can do to check this out: look what happened to you during the transit od Saturn through your VIth house - if it made your place of work change, or your pet died ... or even problems with services - then you just react in some other way. There must have been a siginifcant change in you mother's life - I hope she is well and has ni problems with her bones or depression.

You do not have the aspects of a genius: it requires mostly the IIIrd, the IXth and the XIIth house with a strong Aquarius - not Gemini or Virgo. I won't deny the fact that you are VERY smart and probably have a high IQ. You should be good at mathematics and do comprehend very quickly too. You do not have Hitler's aspects either: to become someone who is agressive (rapist, killer etc.) you need to have a Mars/Pluto/Saturn square, opposition in violent signs. In astrology, violent signs are Scorpio, Aries, Taurus (to my suprise) and Leo. Mostly, you will see heavy aspects of the inner planets with the outer planets - Pluto/Neptune and Uranus are squared. The Moon void of course and the Sun in a angular house (text book stuff, never met someone with such aspects.)The Moon must be in Leo or Capricorn, a total lack of water and many other things ...
You have the strong intellecatual signs - no Hilter, nor an agressive person in no way! Yes, the ruler of your rising sign is in his fall, but nothing alarming (watch your head, though).

You did not check the mother's chart enough: see the strong T-square? All the planets in cardinal signs, either in the placement of their domocile or exile? The Vth is connected too (Pisces, last degrees, the degree of tears) and the planets conjunct some heavy fixed stars (I do not knoe if your astrology tutor has explained them to you, or if you did any solo research). I first thought that the child lived somewhere else (notice the Neptune Rx, the Mercury Rx in VIIIth with the Sun) or that he is sick (South Node conjunction with the ruler, directional South Node marched over Mercury etc.) Neptune and Pisces tend to hide, alter and lie and during the time of William Lilly this could show a child who is conceived out of marriage or whose father is not known. The child has the worse Mars/Saturn aspect (this aspect is a MUST if you want to know who a bad person is) and the planets are where they should not be. This can cause a major life crisis during some point of his life - but you told correctly that this must not be. On the previous page you should look at the mother's info: she will have a great deal of trouble with her kid; but I would just like to add, that this might happen even if the child is too introvert and the parent wants a happy child.

I am glad that I was wrong and that the child is OK. and that there are not any other major troubles with him! The chart is unusual, as there is only one quarter of the chart occupied - the XIIth house is strong - he couls use it to his benefit - research and other stuff, but he lacks intellectual signs and water. The first trouble will be when he hits 16 (directional Pluto over the Sun, progressions confirm it too).

By the way, I am practicing astrology for 10 years now, 5 of them in schools, 2 semesters as a student of an Astrology College in Italy I am currently finishing the last course of one school and I know what I am talking about: this child has potential, but a strong will. If focused right - he should be able to lead a normal life. I just think he does not want to lead an 'ordinary' life and will walk alone through his life. He is just not the child Nackie wanted (carmical birth) and she does not understand him. The second child will be more 'childish' and easy to handle. She will be a happy mother with the second kid. We will have to wait and see - I will keep his chart in my records and I hope to hear some day that he is a happy person.

posted October 01, 2003 12:17 PM              

At least I'm not shaking anymore lol I couldn't wait for him to get home safe from school today!

posted October 01, 2003 12:22 PM              

Nackie contacted me and explained the whole situation with her boy and her family. I was right and Duality was right - the boy is unique and his birth is ... a little mistery and has it's own story. My chart was good, just a bit too harsh - most of the stuff I mentioned the mother knows of and controls it well. The problem is taken care of and I was able (just a bit) to help Nackie!

Thanks for the reminding about some aspects Duality - almost forgot "the whole picture"

posted October 01, 2003 01:52 PM            

I had one more quick question. Do you work more from the rectified birth chart or the actual time. I noticed that the reading you gave me was for the rectified time. My birth certificate states: 11:45 pm Pacific time (or 23:45). Which would you recommend using?

Thanks,

posted October 01, 2003 06:15 PM              

Telling someone their kid is all wrong, might end up a criminal, be dead or disappear from their parents' lives is IRRESPONSIBLE! Obviously, you were wrong about at least some of these things. That's why I say you have to be careful and not so definite about things no matter how long you've been pacticing.

As for the fixed stars - Some believe in them, others don't. The same applies to that "degree of tears". I just read a few things about it and some say that the general meaning of things is that things might be delayed or not turn out the way one expected them to. That isn't necessarily BAD!

quote:

---

I first thought that the child lived somewhere else (notice the Neptune Rx, the Mercury Rx in VIIIth with the Sun

---

None of these things is rare even in combination.

Nackie's son has two distinct influences in his chart - A very developed inner world and great sensitivity which might manifest in withdrawel on the one hand but on the other hand he has many "charm" aspects and influence on ppl - many ppl.
Have you considered the possibility that these traits exactly might make him a great actor or artist????

Yes, Saturn hard aspects especially to Moon and Mars can be difficult. I've seen ppl succeed with them and other's miserable. I've seen the other side of the coin too- Easy Saturn aspects that make for a boring, uneventful, unmotivated and ultimately unsatisfying life.

Most ppl don't get "the kids they expected" or at least some of them aren't.

posted October 01, 2003 07:27 PM              

Thanks. I'm not saying Zoka doesn't have a gift. I'm convinced she has. When I started getting into astrology, I never imagined how complex it is. How many layers and possible outcomes there are to each placement or aspect. That's why it's difficult to predict with certainty how it will play out. All we can say is that there is a "tendancy" one way or the other which might or not manifest itself.

A certain aspect in a chart might "overide" all the rest and dominate a person's life and it might be the one we least expect.

Take identical twins as an example - Many of them lead different lives and actually have different characters and preferences. Every pair of such twins I've met were very different from one another (inspite of their identical or almost identical chart and life circumstances).

Another thing - Years ago I saw a documentary about males having an extra "Y" chromosome, if I remember correctly. The interesting thing they have found was that these men ended up being either criminals or surgeons and athlets. The same common factor actually produced opposite outcomes.

On adifferent note or not so different - I was reading a thread about homosexuality or bi sexuality indicators in one of the drawers here. I was quite surprised to find a multiple of those in my own chart yet I am not gay or or bi sexual. And no, I'm not in denial, lol.

So I guess I'm trying to make a point - Things CAN and DO play out in multiple ways and then there is what you said - FREE WILL or none of this would be worth a dime or life in general for that matter.

posted October 01, 2003 10:28 PM              

Ps, Always thought i'd have 4 kids and I am not there, and dh feels too old to have more. (state of mind)

Side note, when I see people who can grasp the meanings of the charts, I wish I had the knowledge as well.

posted October 02, 2003 02:25 AM              

Thanks to you, too, Duality (you're a gem too?) for putting another spin on things. I would much rather my son turn into an actor than a criminal! I try my best to bring him up to be an independant (he is already) and good adult, I think it's working...so I'm crossing my fingers here. You said those aspects can make him either withdrawn or a "charmer"...he's very much the charmer, and loves to be around people, although I notice in a group (classmates) he tends to stay off to the side, which I always found odd because he is really liked within his class. It also seems to me that he is just more interested in how the others interact with each other than being a part of the group. Although it bothers his teacher ("he doesn't 'bond' with the other kids"), it doesn't seem to bother him, so I don't make an issue of it.

This Nackie hopes she's doing good as a mother, that seems to be up to debate here as it is in my gemini head lol I'll let every know in 9 years when he is 16 (start of difficulties) and I'm starting to go insane lol I really just hope that it's because he is strong-willed about the good things in life, and not just about becoming a criminal :O

Thanks again, you guys! Had a very interesting day yesterday!

posted October 02, 2003 02:12 PM              

I didn't mean he has to become one or the other. A hermit or a total society animal. HE can be BOTH. That's one of the reasons I said he could be an actor. He has the charm and influence on the one hand and the inward looking trait on the other. It's wonderful that he's an observer too. I am both and I love it. I need both sides of my personality and wouldn't want only one or the other.
He really is young and kids change. I changed a lot. Got over my natural shiness. It can be done. Encourage his social skills w/o pushing him too hard. I really don't see onmnious signs in his chart. The outer planets make good and harmonious aspects.

You might also want to encourage his dramatic and artistic traits. It might give him an opportunity to shine and succeed and interact with others. I think his chart supports it.

Just a remark - I've looked at many charts of successful ppl (in many fields) and 90% of them had T-squares in them!!! As I see it - T-squares are essential or in fact crucial to succees. To having a motivation to do and achieve ANYTHING in life.

posted October 02, 2003 04:34 PM              

As long as he's happy, I'm happy. I guess that sums up about every mother's goals for her kids. I don't care if he's a dentist, carpenter, street cleaner, whatever. Just happy

posted October 03, 2003 06:55 AM              

This board is excellent and I thank mainly Duality, but also everybody else for responding. My whole learning was connected to teachers (who were screaming at me for not paying enough attention) and friends who wanted to know stuff. There are some other students, but not too many and we finished the same school, so I am very grateful to hear another point of view or opinion. Duality mentioned fixed stars and how some astrologers don't believe in them. Good choice of words: belief. The believing and the holy stuff belongs to the church and to religion and it's place is not here. Astrology is about learning, mathematics and formulas. It is about pure calculation, not a about system of belief. And of course, like in every other area of the life, there are students with more or less talent. Someone will master a chart in 5 minutes, another needs 5 hours. But the result should be the same: the psychological, personal, physical and every other evaluation of the person in question. Julia Ormond is considered to be an actress with no talent, but she compensated it by learning, practicing even failure etc. There is nothing you can not learn.
And there is the problem with truth: as astrology is able to tell you many unpleasant things out of your life - yes, we are people and make mistakes and stupid stuff and sometimes even think terrible thoughts - you will find out that some people deliberately hide some important things about themselves. Neptune in the Vth, bad aspects, Venus in the IXth in conjunction with Lilith, perhaps a lovely square or two. Mars in Scorpio in the XIIth - opposition with the Vth and the ruler of it. "Did you have an abortion?" "Uhm ... no!" "Are you sure?" "Well ... yes ... I don't know ..." The fact that girls get pregnant by the time they are 13 and then carry out the pregnancy, leaving the child for adoption is nothing unusual these days. And people hide it, out of shame, anger and hurt and just won't tell. Those are the "confusing" charts.
As you will get better with you learning, some person on the street is going to be an amusement for you for trying to hide their little errors and flaws, presenting themselves in a perfect way although you know exactly what is going on in their heads. But most people are 'normal' and tell you stuff. It is easier for an astrologer to know whether you were married or not, not out of curiosity, but as a need: Your second marriage is the IXth house and the interpretation will be different. Yes, you can leave it to the astrologer to find out, making him/her calculating 1 or 2 hours. And there is a problem with the retrification time, but that is another story.
But how will you know whom you are talking too and what the person is like? In Italy, my professor told me to watch out for 3 things: the Mercury, the XIth and the IIIrd house and the aspects of their rulers and planets in it. Why? Who cares about those stupid planets and houses, what about Mars or Venus, the Vth? Well, they do matter and although I thought they are useless, it seems to me now, that those are very important areas of our lives.
First of all, we are all HUMANS, and humans are ruled by Mercury. So you have the "human being" in the chart. How the person THINKS. This is connected to the IIIrd house too, the way he/she thinks. If you have a Mercury/Saturn square or opposition, this usually shows lack of intelligence and someone who is slow. But the good aspects show a thinker who studies the material he is interested it. Mercury/Mars is the brutal, sharp mind (mind like a rapier) and the fast speaker and thinker. This is the aspect you are most likely to find in the chart of criminals. Mercury/Uranus shows a genius mind and speed, but a lack of structure. Mercury/Neptune a lier and confused brain, but gives excellent intuition and Mercury/Pluto someone who curses - a lot and has VERY bad thoughts. That is the person who sees the deeper and darker side of everything. As you see, you can have all sorts of thinkers. But if the person IS going to do something, that is connected to the XIth house (house of plans), the Sun (will) and strength (Mars). And there you have it. A strong IIIrd, but weak XIth will show a person who has a zillion ideas ... but no actual plan. A wicked XIth will show bad plans, an evil person ... but a strong Saturn/Mercury square will show he/she lacks intelligence to plan it; a bad aspect with Neptune that he/she will blurt everything out or get caught - the bad Mars aspect? To aggressive and quick. The Uranus shows a Genius, but I will show you later the chart of a real serial killer - the fact that he killed almost 100 women, took their nipples to make jewelry for himself and collected their vagina was original, no doubt in that. I don't think anybody appreciated his "genius" aspects.

You have people who are good ... and you have people who are bad. Unfortunately. In order to say that someone has a good chart and is considered a good person, you must have a bad chart to compare. Sure, most charts will be OK. with the same amount of good and bad aspects, sparing us from the worse in people. And you will have one or two bad charts, with the possibility of a person to turn bad. Very bad. Will something happen? Not easy to tell, but not because you can't; most astrologers just don't bother, as it requires time and patience and calculating and calculating and calculating. Look at the separating and the applicating aspects. The ruler of your VIIth has a square with Uranus in Libra? Divorce? No if the aspect is leaving: if your Venus is in Cancer on the 26th degree and Uranus is on the 25th - your husband will be a divorced or just left his partner (not family, as Libra is here for husbands and wives, not children). 2 degrees? 2 Years, weeks or months. Cardinal signs are the fastest, the fixed slower and the slowest the mutable (God knows why!). An application shows something that WILL and MUST happen. And here we have the famous "astro-healing" which tells us WHAT to do. Have the aspect? Don't get divorced, do something better - move out of the house! Uranus indicates separated living and great space between the spouses, so you have an easy solution. When the aspect is precise, don't even call your partner and leave him be. And in no time you will be the family you once were. This applies to everything. The Venus/Uranus square is quite hard to handle, as Uranus loves everybody and Venus loves somebody. Venus is nice and gentle and warm; our Uranus is mean and tends to kick your b..t when least expected. Do you have a partner with that aspect? Remember the time he/she told you that he/she hated you, wanted their freedom and stormed out of the house? No reason, just jumped out of the chair and left. Don't worry - he/she will be back (most of the times) as Uranus is quick, but not long lasting and will leave Venus alone after a few hours. And what is Venus going to do without her beloved one? So, back home. Those aspects do not confuse the owner, they confuse EVERYBODY else. One minute you love me, the next you hate me; now you need space, now you don't ... oh, hell! I am leaving this crazy house! And there you have a divorce. Uranus and Venus are sitting and looking at each other, they didn't do anything wrong. Those are good planets and the last intention was to hurt anyone.

You will have to look ate the Moon too. Those are not only are deepest feelings, but this planet represents "the other people". How come you have demonstrations in one country, with half of the people sitting ate home and the other half on the street, although the subject concerns all? The Moon will give you the answer. From the VIIth to the XIIth house you will have a person who does not follow everybody around. If the Sun is angular, then the person will participate ... but if he/she is the leader of those demonstrations or revolution.

The fixed stars are VERY important, just the points of exaltation or fall or the Arabic parts. Ever heard of the "critical point"? The "Wigenthil" aspect? The "equidistant points"? If anybody who claims to be an astrologer claims that those are irrelevant things ... then this person is a total quack and does not know anything about astrology.
They just require time and patience to master and can be sometimes overlooked. One of the worse fixed stars is the "Head of the Medusa" or Algol on the 25th degree of Taurus. This is really bad, every dictator had it, every criminal has something on that degree. And Aldebaran (I think) on the 8th degree of Sagittarius. And on and on.

Here is something interesting for you all.

Human signs: Aquarius, Gemini, Virgo, 16-30th degree Sagittarius. Every other sign (except the object Libra) is an animal sign.
Double signs: Gemini, Cancer, Virgo, 0-15th degree Sagittarius and Pisces. (f.e. will I have 2 marriages?)
Fertile: Cancer, Pisces, Scorpio.
Infertile: Aries, Gemini, Leo, Virgo and Aquarius.
Beautiful: Gemini, Virgo, Libra, Aquarius, 0-15th degree Sagittarius.
Ugly: Taurus, Cancer and Capricorn
Aggressive: Aries, Scorpio, Capricorn, Sagittarius
Violent and dangerous: Aries, Scorpio, Leo, Aquarius.
Silent: Pisces, Cancer and 16-30th Sagittarius
Strong: Leo, Aries, Sagittarius
Weak: Cancer, Pisces, Capricorn
Music: Sagittarius, Libra, Gemini, Taurus and Aquarius
Artistic: Aquarius, Virgo, Libra, Sagittarius and Pisces
Occult: Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces, Virgo, Sagittarius, Capricorn
Magic: Scorpio and Capricorn
Spiritual: Gemini, Aquarius, Libra, Virgo, Capricorn
Philosophical: Aquarius, Virgo, Capricorn
Pedagogical: Leo, Virgo, Libra
Melancholic: Earth signs
Phlegmatic: Water signs
Choleric: Fire signs
Sanguining: Air signs

And now something for Duality. The formula for infertility: VE 90 SA, NE in a sterile sign; JU, NE 90 MA in the Vth house. The ruler SA in Sc on the Asc (slow semen); SA 0 LI in Sc (mostly in the IXth). SA in Ge, Le, Vi in the VIth, VIIIth or XIIth afl. VE, MO. SO Asc Le, SA Sc, Li. MO in Co, Le or Vi 90 NE, UR, PL ... I have not written down the entire thing, just the first few aspects. This has nothing to with seeing etc. it is about learning. You have about 100 formulas like that and it is just a matter of practice. Duality mentioned the little boy being an actor or artist? Never! Actor: VE in the Vth or a lot of planets in the Vth. SA fast, JU Rx in the Xth (MC). Fixed signs (ta-opera, sc-tragedy, or ar-comedy etc.) The little boy has the Scorpio in the Xth house. Scorpio is the mute sign and does not speak. The ruler of the Xth is in the XIIth, so he will be working behind the scenes. Lack of the VIIth house (public) and so on. Art: Asc or the Xth VE 120 UR, NE. ME li 60 VE (the Mercury/Venus sextile makes excellent singers, especially when in Pisces, Taurus, Libra or Libra), VE in IIIrd 120 MO, SO, JU, UR or the Asc. Weak Mars. I did not give you the precise formulas for writers, poets, painters and composers. If you are interested, I will post them for you or e-mail them. I have read you found somewhere the aspects for being a bisexual or lesbian? I have not: Stronger Pi, Ca and VE in the VIIth in afl. with SA; VE in VIIth and SA in the IVth, the Vth or the VIth; VE on the Desc 90 SA; MA 90 SA in Ar, Co; MO 120 VE, NE around the 8th degree of Gemini (8th degree of every sign); MO 0 Hades. UR or NE in the Vth, aspect with MO or VE. A lot of planets in the XIth or Aquarius and the MA and with the Asc. Stronger MA 90 SA or MA-MO - an active lesbian. Those are not all the formulas, just a few. Duality is NOT mean or ungrateful (Moon in Pisces, strong VIth house). She has a "combusted" conjunction of her major planets involving mostly the Mars/Mercury and Sun. Uranus 90. She needs to verbalize her thoughts with speech or writing and needs to say (type) everything NOW. Her brain is too quick and demands immediate reaction. Uranus wants it. And I can't blame you, as you have a lot to say.

I think I need to explain my way of saying things, and why I will continue doing so. Every time I see a good chart (natal, composite, horary, electional ...) I will say so. And if I see a bad chart, I will say so too. A few years ago my sister got pregnant after a few years of waiting. She is a Scorpio lady with the most beautiful baby chart and loves children. And I mean love. She got pregnant with her husband and I did her year chart again, just for fun, to see how the pregnancy will go. Mercury and Pluto were around the VIIIth, attacked by Mars. Neptune was connected to the ruler of the VIth, Uranus had bad aspects. Mercury and the ruler of the Vth were in such danger, mostly from Saturn and Neptune and Mars (I think a conjunction), I did not know how she got pregnant in the first place. I knew something was wrong. I suspected that the ultrasound was incorrect and that there was something they did not tell her. The transits were awful. The directions even worse. I consulted my mother, telling her something is wrong and that we should make her see another doctor (every time Neptune is around the VIth house, you will be misdiagnosed and should check up everything twice). My mother slapped and accused me for being a morbid, jealous and horrible person. That I was a pessimist seeing always the dark side of everything. I have a Jupiter with the best aspects ever: I am a good and fair judge. But I have a strong Cancer, so I do not speak up very often. During the 8th month of my sisters pregnancy we got a call from the hospital. My aunt was crying. One of their friends - an OB gyn - took a quick look at the ultrasound and she was in the hospital the next second. Her baby had hydrocephalus (too much water in the brain (Mars-Neptune-Jupiter I think), his spine was undeveloped, the limbs missing. The doctors refused to do a Cesarean birth and decided to induce labor. She demanded NOT to see the baby after giving birth to it, but the nurse forgot that. She was in labor for 10 hours and the spine of the baby was so positioned, that it teared up her womb. She won't be able to have children ever. After the birth the nurse put the baby on her chest and she saw the most horrible creature on earth: her monstrous child. An over-sized head, no arms and legs. A deformed spine. She screamed an fainted. The child was dead.
My sister is OK now, after the birth her thyroid went mad and she gained 40 lbs, and is still fat. Her husband is a great support and loves her deeply. But she suffers. She still walks through the park looking sadly at other children and ... at mothers. She often cries.
Now, I know I should have told her. The second doctor would have terminated the pregnancy during the 1st trimester and she would have gotten pregnant during the next. The Jupiter through her Vth transit manifested itself as a passion for gambling and eating. It was my fault. The ruler of my progressed (or directional) IIIrd house was in Scorpio, the mute sign. I did not speak.

BTW, with all respect for Nackie's privacy, I will share just this: she told me everything about her life and we both were able to find the "missing" of the child and the "death". I was right in an ironic way

posted October 03, 2003 08:20 AM            

Such a trauma for your sister Zoka Healing lite for her and family.

juniperb

posted October 03, 2003 10:05 AM              

Personally, I respect each person's view of Astrology and how they choose to interpret it as their own. We each own and speak our wisdom and the audience always has a choice to accept or decline. Dismissive comments never achieve an opposing person's respect, and do not acknowledge their views as a presence of themsELF.

Best,

posted October 03, 2003 10:14 AM              

Zoka ;-)

I don't think anyone here is in any doubt over your obvious talent for reading and interpreting astrological data; rather, I would say the problem is with how you articulate your findings. Your apalling experience (and it was truly awful to read. I am so sorry) seems to have made you very subjective in regards to your present method of astrological interpretation and presentation. This is not helpful, especially when one is dealing with potentially vulnerable people. Also, as Duality mentioned, there are no absolute truths and there will always be exceptions to the rule. For example, reading your list of formulae re: intelligence, you mentioned Saturn in aspect to Mercury as an aspect representative of a 'slow brain'. My son (Zoka , you would probably be quite horrified by his chart :-)) has a Saturn/Merc opposition..... He's a Maths/Science genius! Not only that, transiting Saturn was conjuncting natal Merc and opposing natal Saturn during an important academic period of his life.... and he came top of his year for Maths and Science. He won a prize :> )

Just one example, but you see the point I'm trying to make.

Zoka, your words make for fascinating reading and I've been scribbling notes down like crazy; but be a little more measured in you responses to any birth data that people trust you with. A post-reading panic on the part of the 'client' will not be conducive to the forming of a /recovery/solution-forming/positive-outlook result; and all good astrologers/counsellors should have the mental and emotional welfare of their clients as a number one priority.

TanyaX

posted October 03, 2003 10:34 AM              

By all means, if you can post the artistic aspects, I'd be grateful.

Again, ppl are not equasions. That's why it's so hard no matter how many charts one has seen to determine with certainty the final outcome. There are just too many "variables". Even when a person has seen 2000 charts, that's a VERY small part of the total population.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this for the sake of being argumentative or to doubt your ability. I do believe in astrology and it has helped me understand many things.

You said:

quote:

---

Astrology is about learning, mathematics and formulas. It is about pure calculation, not a about system of belief

---

Take Aristotal as an example - A great HUMAN mind, a genius according to most views. Some of the things he said were downright stupid. Things he said about conception, sex and women are considered ridiculous today and actualy many of his views were based on misogyny and prejudice. Many beliefes in astrology are based on ancient BELIEFS superstitions, ignorance and the personal perspective of the mind that produced them.

I can't tell you how horrified I am of hearing about your sister. I hope she will be ok and maybe even find a way of having a child by surrogacy or adoption if possible. I can only wish the best for her.

I imagine that you blame yourself for "not doing everything" you could have done but I'm afraid that is after-the-fact wisdom. This is exactly one of life's great dilemas that we judge looking back and "know" what we could have done only because of the outcome.
I really wish you the best.

posted October 03, 2003 12:28 PM              

Mercury/Saturn bad aspects indicate a slow thinker - not a stupid child. This shows someone who wants structure in his thoughts and to analyze everything. If the Mercury has an aspect with Uranus, he will be able to comprehend everything new. The Pluto aspect will give him deep thoughts and the concentration ability. Is there a prominent equidistant point between those two planets? Is the Jupiter (knowledge and higher wisdom involved). Aquarius, Capricorn and Virgo like mathematics and science. Mercury in the IIIrd, IXth or XIth - domicile or the position of exaltation etc. A strong IIIrd house with Mars in it? I would like to see your boys chart - I love extraordinary people and I congratulate on his achievment. Sun and Mercury MUST have an aspect, this gives the WILL to learn. You must be a proud mom (Moon in Leo or in Capricorn?)!

Duality, I will make a list of aspects for the 'artistic' talents and the most prominent fixed stars (yes, we do not need all 100 of them) and post them here. Than we should all have a discussion HOW those aspects manifested in our lives. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and wisdom with me - it is great to be among intelligent people.

Although you are all right, the middle path is the best and we should try to balance everything in life. Even words.

posted October 03, 2003 12:36 PM              

if your kid has something on the 13th, 15th degree (or around it) of Cancer - there is no doubt he is a mathematician. The 15th degree of Cancer is the exact degree of mathematics. If Saturn is in Capricorn ... he is SMART and he is not afraid to study ... a lot!