posted November 07, 2011 06:45 PM            

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posted November 07, 2011 09:11 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Wait a minute. It does not touch Mars. I had the Mars at the wrong degree. YOU have another of my fave aspects--mars conjunct mercury. You can and will say what is on your mind in a bold and honest way! is this true

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posted November 07, 2011 09:12 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
OK, so Chiron sextiles the Sun in the 10th house, bringing your inner pain in to your career or somehow having pain touch your career. I think we could say that.

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posted November 07, 2011 09:13 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Chiron in Pisces in the 12th oppose Uranus in Virgo in the 6th house (exact). The exact aspect is always the more powerful one.

Uranus in the 6th will shake up everything the 6th house rules. It rules service of a practical nature, work of a practical nature and health. So, you will be shaken up in some of these areas. You have been shaken up with health, the genetic issues. Right there, Uranus put a huge shock on you. Uranus is the planet of shocking things and abrupt stops and starts.

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posted November 07, 2011 09:20 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Chiron opposing this would make you go back and forth between deep and hidden pain, on one hand and shock and huge changes in health things, you could say. I thik this fits. You were terribly shaken up and you had terrible hidden pain . The opposition makes you see saw back and forth between two poles. You have felt you had to hide this deep wound, so that is classic Chiron in the 12th house.

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posted November 07, 2011 09:24 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Chiron opposes Pluto in the 6th house(4 degrees). Health issues again made a tidal wave impression on your life. I think Pluto shows this, most of all.

As far as service, PERHAPS, you will do some very unusual service with your pain. The Chiron trine NN makes me think of this. I am feeling you have some thoughts on this. Do you? Is there some 'way out" service thing you always wanted to do? Has it been a passion that you thought would never come to be? Is it related to your children, somehow? I am thinking it is of a practical nature,too, like meeting practical needs of people, somehow. Am i right?

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posted November 07, 2011 09:25 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
I am gonna let you answer before I go on.

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Jesus helped the sick and needy first. Since I was a little boy, the goal has been to be "like Jesus."

posted November 07, 2011 09:38 PM            

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posted November 07, 2011 09:51 PM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
My Goodness, Ian. I did not know you had that dream. What I see from your Chiron is that you will use your pain for service. You will touch people from your loss and what it birthed in you. The loss of a child changes you in to some sort of an alien, different from everyone, BUT, that difference is something precious, not that you would have chosen it, but God can use it because you are forever changed, more tender, more vulnerable, more loving!

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And growing up, I always identified mybirthday with that of Jesus. I never had dual celebrations of birthdays three days apart. I always requested a birthday cake to have candles but also a big one for Jesus. My parents humored me.

posted November 08, 2011 04:11 AM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:

I had a separate discussion on this issue with anongrl10, and I mostly agree with her about codependency being hideous.

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Ian, perhaps you mis-read that post of mine. I wrote (verbatim): "Codependency is insidious."
Not "hideous" ! LOL

posted November 08, 2011 04:13 AM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
I'm being attacked in Astro 2 and I really don't appreciate it.

I guess I have to learn to just ignore.

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Sorry to hear. Some people feel safe under the anonymity of online boards to exercise their "right" to be rude and verbally abusive to complete strangers.
Yes, best to ignore them. :-/

posted November 08, 2011 05:21 AM            

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posted November 08, 2011 05:31 AM            

About the birth time change. I never fit my chart. I had it done 3 times,in my life and they were talking about someone else. My old chart showed me to have a charmed life, where everything came easily to me. It showed me to be a rather superficial person . That is not me, at all. I never could get any traction on who I was with that chart. People would tell me the same thing when they looked at it.

A man who knew me well and who was an astrologer changed my birth time and there I was. It was so wonderful. I,finally, had myself, my blueprint. It was such an incredible gift to me. Every placement fit. Every planet fit in to it's house. The ASC fit perfectly. The angles fit, perfectly. This new chart showed the loss of my son which will ALWAYS show in a chart. The other did not.

To me, if the chart does not fit the person, I will try to change it until it does, based on my experience. That is just me and what I have been through. I think the chart should fit as a hand in a glove. If it does not, something if off. The chart is our blueprint from God, our guide to ourselves, the owner's manual to who we are.
One should feel one has found "home" when one looks at one's chart. An accurate chart will have that feeling for a person.

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posted November 08, 2011 05:38 AM            

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Originally posted by anongrl10:
Ian, perhaps you mis-read that post of mine. I wrote (verbatim): [b] "Codependency insidious."
Not "hideous" ! LOL

anongrl10[/B]

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Hahaha sorry anongrl10

posted November 08, 2011 05:47 AM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Yes, Ian, you are MUCH smarter than I am. It took me 2 years of fighting every,little comment someone made to me, such as was made in that Astro 2 thread.I would argue on and on and on and on. I did not KNOW that you simply could walk away. You must have learned that somewhere along the line.

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Sun Tzu, from the The Art of War. "For them to perceive the advantage of defeaing the enemy, they must also have their rewards."

In ghetto speak, there is no upside to this debate. Kick the brick wall and you'll have a bruised foot.

In the doctrine of mutually assured destruction, and also in the classic economic/mathematic model of prisoner's dilemma, a show down of two equal and intransigent parties yields the predicted outcome of no resolution.

I work in an industry that could be best described as a shark pool. If we don't learn to just put down our swords and walk away, everyone will be slaughtered and the arena would be a pool of blood.

posted November 08, 2011 05:49 AM            

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Ian, that is really beautiful how much you, always, loved Jesus!

About the birth time change. I never fit my chart. I had it done 3 times,in my life and they were talking about someone else. My old chart showed me to have a charmed life, where everything came easily to me. It showed me to be a rather superficial person . That is not me, at all. I never could get any traction on who I was with that chart. People would tell me the same thing when they looked at it.

A man who knew me well and who was an astrologer changed my birth time and there I was. It was so wonderful. I,finally, had myself, my blueprint. It was such an incredible gift to me. Every placement fit. Every planet fit in to it's house. The ASC fit perfectly. The angles fit, perfectly. This new chart showed the loss of my son which will ALWAYS show in a chart. The other did not.

To me, if the chart does not fit the person, I will try to change it until it does, based on my experience. That is just me and what I have been through. I think the chart should fit as a hand in a glove. If it does not, something if off. The chart is our blueprint from God, our guide to ourselves, the owner's manual to who we are.
One should feel one has found "home" when one looks at one's chart. An accurate chart will have that feeling for a person.

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I've got a home in Glory Land that outshines the Sun.

posted November 08, 2011 06:05 AM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Hahaha sorry anongrl10

OK. I must admit that I feel it is insidious, and it can get quite hideous

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posted November 08, 2011 06:09 AM            

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Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Sun Tzu, from the The Art of War. "For them to perceive the advantage of defeaing the enemy, they must also have their rewards."

In ghetto speak, there is no upside to this debate. Kick the brick wall and you'll have a bruised foot.

In the doctrine of mutually assured destruction, and also in the classic economic/mathematic model of prisoner's dilemma, a show down of two equal and intransigent parties yields the predicted outcome of no resolution.

I work in an industry that could be best described as a shark pool. If we don't learn to just put down our swords and walk away, everyone will be slaughtered and the arena would be a pool of blood.

Wise man says... its easier to just be diplomatic, scoff at the opposition in disdain and walk away.

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(Applauding)
That's a fantastic way to put it.
I always wondered if this strategy is effective. Isn't putting down the swords equivalent to letting the other side win?
I'd love to hear your further thoughts on this, Ian.

posted November 08, 2011 07:10 AM            

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posted November 08, 2011 07:17 AM            

I feel we have found "you" with this Chiron placement. Do you?

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posted November 08, 2011 07:27 AM            

Nurture that dream of helping children, It was put in there by God. It will be a helaing balm for the loss of your child,too, and an honor to your child. I try to live my life to honor my son. I am very flawed,as I try to be the first to admit, but that is my desire.

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posted November 08, 2011 07:33 AM            

This is the only really hard part of your chart,as I can see, but it is VERY hard. Your pain seems to be concentrated in this area--the 12th/6th house axis. Do you feel that way?
You have struggles in groups, but not this deep level of pain. Saturn is struggles and the overcoming of things, but Chiron is deep, deep pain that will never heal but can be transformed. That seems to fit what you endured.

I am thinking your dream to help children is from your own pain as a child. Again, you can transform Chiron's pain, but it never fully goes away.

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posted November 08, 2011 08:55 AM            

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Originally posted by anongrl10:
(Applauding)
That's a fantastic way to put it.
I always wondered if this strategy is effective. Isn't putting down the swords equivalent to letting the other side win?
I'd love to hear your further thoughts on this, Ian.

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Hello anongrl10,

The fundamental assumption is that the opposition is rational. Otherwise, its clearly a sign of suicidal tendencies and so there is no reasoning. Don't lay down the sword and move in to slay the enemy.

Otherwise, there is an economics/mathematics concept called Nash Equilibrium. Remember the movie :A Beautiful Mind" with Russell Crowe? The movie is centered around the theory developed by Princeton professor John Nash.

Ina two by two matrix with fight vs. don't fight, then there are four possible outcomes. In the quadrant where you fight, there are two possible outcomes: you win or you lose. Therefore, the probability that you fight and win is one-eighth or 12.5%. Similarly, the probability that you fight and lose is the same 12.5%. On teh other hand, the probability that neither party wants to fight and therefore walk away is 25%.

If one party fights and the other doesn't, then the party that doesn't clearly loses, as in your example, and the party that fights has the motto of the British SAS: "Who Dares Wins." Given two such quadrants, the associated probability is 50%. Assuming both parties are equally matched and rational, they would stare each other intently, and in all likelihood, such a situation would not occur.

Back to my illustration of fight vs. don't fight. Its clear that the outcome of don't fight and don't fight yields no victories, but also draws no blood. In a sense, both parties walk away unscathed and therefore its an outcome favorable to fight and lose, again given ceteris paribus that both sides are equally matched and any fight outcome can occur. The probability is 25% draw vs. 12.5% fight and win.