posted May 31, 2007 05:59 PM         

Look, I know I'm mostly repeating what others have said, but I will be brief.

I think its a subtle issue, and its good that we are discussing it and sharing our opinions. I appreciate that Dean is assured in his own mind that he did the right thing. That is important. He has thought about it carefully, and presented strong reasons for his decision, and I cannot fault him for that. I do think, if he was determined to take action, he ought to have edited the posts he found to be in violation, and posted a note to that effect, rather than delete the entire thread.

Dean's reasons are formidable, and it is true that we create the energy here. At the same time, although we create a specific energy her at LL, there is still just One Energy in the world, and, if we are not working to transmute it here, what are we doing exactly? Just taking it back with us into the world. Speaking for myself (and I realize I am just one member of this community), I want LL to be a place where we can bring our darkest visions, our gravest doubts, our deepest fears, and, God willing, transmute them, together, into something pure.

In a way, I feel almost as if censoring these things would be denying the darkness, sweeping it under the rug, and creating a more or less artificial environment, an illusion. Meanwhile we would all be carrying around this ugly stuff inside, all looking to find our own personal means of exorcising it. But I thought that was what LL was for? I think we ought to aske ourselves, what kind of energy are we creating by making darkness taboo? I am inclined to agree with Lia that it is superficial, subtly repressive, and not quite what Ms. Goodman had in mind.

It seems to me that if we cannot affirm God's Universe in spite of the very darkest parts of it, our affirmation is a papertiger, a fraud. To close the thread, rather than answer these concerns as they stand, naked, disconcerting, even horrifying, doesnt sit right with me. I think, by looking them directly in the eye, together, and going into that small, dark place, safely, to explore and bring something up for purging, we are fulfilling Linda Goodman's highest vision.

The Sun is a brilliant light,
but light must be carried underground,
and only a candle can serve.

Love to all of you.

HSC

posted May 31, 2007 06:52 PM         

On the high-rise estate
What's at the back of your mind ?
Oh, a three-day debate
On a high-rise estate
What's at the back of your mind ?

Two icy-cold hands conducting the way
It's the Eskimo blood in my veins
Amid concrete and clay
And general decay
Nature must still find a way
So ignore all the codes of the day
Let your juvenile impulses sway
This way and that way (this way)
This way and that way (this way)
God, how sex implores you
To let yourself lose yourself

Stretch out and wait
Stretch out and wait
Oh ... let your puny body, lie down, lie down
As we lie, you say
As we lie, you say
Stretch out and ...
Stretch out and wait
Stretch out and wait
Oh ... let your puny body lie down, lie down

As we lie, you say :
Will the world end in the night time ?
(I really don't know)
Or will the world end in the day time ?
(I really don't know)
And is there any point ever having children ?
Oh, I don't know
What I do know is we're Here and it's Now

posted May 31, 2007 06:55 PM         

Now, Mirandee, I can understand your frustration, and apologise for removing this opportunity for your daughter. Excuse my ignorance, but who are DFD and LakeDance? I can't recall seeing either in UC. I understand your point regarding communication, but you should always choose your words carefully. You're the one clicking the submit reply button. You have a responsibility to abide by the guidelines here. If you do not abide, then actions may be carried out - some people have been band for their words and passion. This is after warnings though.

Stephen, I am not saying to make "darkness taboo", but to refrain from using graphic imagery and language. Using the word rape is a hard word, but it is not graphic. I guess it's difficult to draw the line at what is graphic and not, or what is acceptable or not, but as the mod, I did make a decision. This is why you can't get a program to do this, but also why actions like this will rock boats. I apologise to you for not confronting you directly, but did not want you to think that I thought you were in the wrong. I just did not want content like that to continue being raised for new comers. I was (and am) highly offended by it, but that's OK. That's me. Who am I to impose on you how I feel about something as trivial as words? Thanks for your honest opinion. Would you advocate having such a discussion with small children? My mum is a nurse, and occassionally tried to enforce in me how the world can be cruel, and while it had its place in growing up to know what the world is like, I can't help but feel that children whould be protected for as long as possible. Once they start asking questions, and pay attention to the news, then you may explaing how these things can happen, and to be careful, etc. In the end, graphic matter is not good for children (in my opinion). I don't feel any actions should be brought against you. I guess you could consider this a warning. I do not want every thread to have graphic matter or language. It's very easy to do for people to go nuts and try to spite LL, which of course, I do not want. However, if people were to do so, then yes, I guess Randall would take actions. You can always get new names and do the same, at which point Randall would have a problem, and maybe need to change the name from Lindaland to Graphicland. Anyhow, I don't mean to offend you by seemingly blaming you for everything that happened. It's just one of those things. In the future, I will try to give a timeline or something (if I see the offensive material) and if no actions are taken, then maybe I will take some, or whatever. The point is, that your words need to be accountable, and you should ask before clicking "submit reply" that "would I mind if my child read this post?" The fact that you don't know the age of LL's members, or the hundreds of people that read here without signing up should be enough for you to realise that a young audience is a definite possibility.

posted May 31, 2007 07:18 PM         

Fayte

posted May 31, 2007 07:42 PM         

Apology accepted. I sympathize with you, in that you were offended by the image I presented. I was deeply offended by it myself, which is why I found it worthy of acknowledgment.

"Thanks for your honesty."

You are welcome.

My honest opinion about children, and I know this is somewhat radical, is that, in order for them to develop a realistic view of the world, they ought to be exposed to these things while they are still in (what is properly known as) their formative years. The problem is not with these images, but with the suppression of them. The only difficulty that arises is, when the child is encouraged to question further, he or she may be met with dismissive, cursory answers, and cold shoulders of denial. And that can be dangerous. But, always, the problem is not the truth but the suppression of it. And the problem goes unnoticed because it is subtle and insidious in its work. It is exactly what Simon and Garfunkle have called the Sound of Silence, and it is deafening. But when the truth is allowed to speak and breathe freely, and to be the truth, then greater love is the response. What is graphic is not synonymous with truth, but it does belong to truth. When we speak about these things, we allow them to come into the light. We can deal with them, and not be dealt with by them. That is my understanding.

For myself, in the 4 or 5 years I have been posting here at LL, I have never felt inspired to use language as graphic as I did in this instance, and it may well be another 4 years before i use such language again. But it makes me feel safe to know that I have the freedom to speak that way, if I feel inspired to at some point. In this case, I felt it was warranted, as Blue Roamer had raised the issue, and I intended to communicate my sympathy in no uncertain terms. Blue Roamer and I both have strong Scorpio and Sagittarian energies, so there is an inclination not only to exagerrate the darker aspects of life, but, also to demand that the depths, and all that inhabit the depths, be brought into the light of absolute truth, and, moreover, that what is darkest in us may be transformed and redeemed by "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth". This is the message that we have to share. Between what we have to share, and what you have to share, there is the spirit of LL. And we want the spirit of LL to be pure, but we must not pretend that it is purer than ourselves. What is in us, is in this place. All that is in us. And when we hit "submit reply" we bring what is in us, all that is in us, into the light. And that is where the magic happens.

Love to you.

posted May 31, 2007 08:30 PM         

Cheers Silverstone,

Dean.

posted May 31, 2007 10:13 PM         

quote:

---

Excuse my ignorance, but who are DFD and LakeDance? I can't recall seeing either in UC.

---

quote:

---

sesame
Moderator

Posts: 1346
From: Oz
Registered: Nov 2003
posted September 08, 2006 05:48 AM Click Here to See the Profile for sesame Edit/Delete Message Could you please not swear D? I truly hope you find peace soon. Ever try meditation? Read any books by the Dalia Lama or Osho? Thought about possibly changing your name numerologically? I knew a girl who was an 8 and 4 who I advised to change her name, but I believe she wanted to go through everything, as we do choose our names before birth. Anyow, I hope you figure some stuff out.

Heaps of Love,
Dean

---

I just want to put all this crap in the past.
I left for nearly 1/2 a year hoping the games would stop. But then in my absence my friends became the target of the main trouble makers.
But it seems until it is all put in its proper place it will all keep rearing its ugly head.

posted May 31, 2007 10:43 PM         

God bless you, Lia.

posted June 01, 2007 12:36 AM         

When I first saw the thread was closed, I just felt that a discussion was needed to understand why and that if it wasn't addressed that it might cause more longer-term tensions or misunderstandings, that's all. It was an innocent inclination, actually I didn’t pre-think what might come from it, I only felt urged and hoped for Grace. I never meant for it to be an attack on you, which is why I tried to take care to construct my posts in a calm, questioning way, rather than irrationally judgmental or accusatory.
I can see how in your position that it might have been difficult not to feel like you were being interrogated, even if that wasn’t the case. I might probably have felt the same.
I appreciate your understanding and the obvious care you took to think about things through from different perspectives. As a mod as such a high-traffic site, I admire your committment and I’ve always liked the way you’ve joined us in discussion...sharing and learning with us.

I didn't want to cause divisions~ the opposite.
alanabelle, I think you misunderstood me...it was only consideration for your voice, nothing more.

I’m strongly Sagittarian/Scorpion influenced too (SilverStone is too btw) Like Stephen described, with this combination, you come to realize the benefits of growth and trasmutation that come from exploring in naked honesty, the deeper mysterious recesses of existence, by purging the depths (and heights), whether through communications, relationships or life experience. There’s great urge to plunge, experience, explore...inspired from fascination for mysterious undercurrents. This might seem a bit intense, but, for me anyway, my spirit cannot deny that that’s how I’ve grown the most. It’s most often how I’ve more understood, learned, broadened my perspectives and come to feel more understanding and compassion for others. It’s not for anything as superficial as shock-value, it’s always with a Sagittarian idealistic vision of betterment. I don’t know if you could have this astro combination highly pronounced and not be able to foresee the Beauty of the potential that awaits in Every thing, nor the Beauty in what some might consider negative or unsightly.

BlueRoamer, your last post exactly. I didn’t mean for it to be personal....I will always be a rebel for freedom. Thanks for understanding.

I'm happy we can have discussions like these, learn from them and move on with renewed hope.

Fayte, I love you too. Even without the Sag, the stuff I wrote above could have described you too. I know your heart is always caring and aimed for betterment too.

posted June 01, 2007 01:20 AM         

Fayte, yes, all you say happened here.
When I recently confronted DFD in FFA or Astro (can't remember where now), it was only to bring about awareness. Because I was concerned about others and my conscience wouldn't let me look away, if anyone might be unknowingly harmed.
It wasn't to dredge up the past...or condemn her eternally. Nor because of bitterness or because I hadn't forgiven or let go...and it wasn't without compassion for thinking about the need that compells her or compassion for thinking that it might be beyond her control.
After the awareness, I remained silent. Because all that can be done from there is let go and hope for the best (for everyone, including her).
So...I understand your intentions are not how they may be taken and that you might be feeling the same about it.
Awareness, then hope.

posted June 01, 2007 01:31 AM         

Words are for me too in letting you know how much I love you as a friend and appreciate you. You are a wonderful person, a wonderful friend and the only woman I ever met who can do plumbing. I admire you for all you are but am in awe about the plumbing. LOL

HSC, I truly liked your post. Liked all that you said. Keep speaking from the soul.

Mannu, my memory is lousy these days but it probably was at GU where you predicted that about Bush. His latest move is sickening, and May 9 may have been the day that democracy in the U.S. died. Especially since once again the media is playing deaf, dumb and blind along with the Democrats in Congress.

Fayte, thanks for clarifying to Dean who I was talking about. I should have said D for Defiant instead of DFD in my post as Dean may only have recognized who I was talking about by her whole screen name. I did say in my post though that LakeDance is her new user name.

But I am cool with all that. I only mentioned it as an example. I don't want to hold LakeDance to the past by holding any grudges and not letting it go.

Again, thanks for explaining your position, Dean and even if I don't entirely agree with all of it, that's okay, it was your choice to make and you seem very sure of it. You have to follow what is right for you as we all do. I do agree with what you said in that moderators have to call them as they see them.

posted June 01, 2007 01:48 AM         

You know the why of what that means to me.

sometimes the things we say are only a small fraction of a much wholer (holier) truth. I've wanted to tell you that.

posted June 01, 2007 05:43 AM         

And when I read your posts, idk. I just *get* it. Unlike any other person/poster/Knowflake here...Probably the Scorpio/Sagittarius in me. Haha.

------------------
"I eat success for breakfast-- with skim milk!"

posted June 01, 2007 08:41 AM         

As to DfD/Lake...
she has been going about deleting new attack posts and replacing them with nonsense. She also has gone through and replaced old attacks with nonsense or silliness to try to make herself look good I suppose. But it takes everything she did out of context to replies to her nastiness, and does not show she has truly changed, but wants to hide the viciousness she spewed in the past and recently as Lake.

posted June 01, 2007 11:08 AM         

I made a response to your comments on Lake Dance
in the Aquarius thread in Yellow Wax.
I think you, and anyone who feels inclined right now to judge LD,
might benefit from reading what I wrote.

Love to you,
hsc

posted June 01, 2007 11:31 AM         

I'm going to post this here, because I want you to see it, and I dont know what email you are using; you move around so much, and I've already sent email apologies that went unanswered, so, I dont know if you received them. You certainly dont owe me a response, or forgiveness, but I need you to know what it means to me, nonetheless. I sent you one reactionary email, full of insensitive words, and it has haunted me ever since. You responded with things that were equally hurtful to me, but I could not blame you, I understood, and it only made me feel more sorry for having hurt you so deeply as to make you say things which I know you would never say otherwise. Last night I was crying in my bed thinking about you, as I've done a few times since this happened. I got out of bed and put my clothes back on and tried to call you, I felt like I had to speak to you. I'm sorry I called so late, I hung up after 3 or 4 rings. Your opinion of me means more than it should, probably. I just cannot bear to think of you thinking ill of me. I want to beg you not to write me off, or see me as unworthy of your friendship. But maybe I am. I know there is a lot of selfishness and insensitivity in me. And you dont deserve to be exposed to that. I wish I were not me, Lisa. I wish I were only what is best in me. I want only to speak to you from what is best, and I want you to see only what is best. But I know there is a whole. I'm sorry to write this here. I hope it is not out of line. I just want to be sure you see it. Like I said, I do not expect or feel entitled to any response from you concering these things. You can be silent, and I will understand. I just want to know that you have heard me, that I have had my say. The rest is in God's hands, and yours. I just need for you to know that I never wanted to hurt you, and it hurts me to know that I hurt you. You are practically an archetype in my life, by the degree to which you represent so much that is good and true and pure. Offending you is like offending a representative of the gods I most revere. I just want so badly to smooth away the scars, and it hurts so much to know that they are scars, and cannot be smoothed away. What have I done, hurting you? I could forgive myself for hurting anyone other than a child and you, Lisa, because of how innocent you are in my eyes. I guess that's all I want to say. I miss you. I love you. And I'm sorry for the way I am.

posted June 01, 2007 11:43 AM         

Lia

posted June 01, 2007 12:11 PM         

My favorite song for the past 4 months or more. Burned the c.d. because some nice suburban kids got it for a Christmas present. This is also currently my favorite "popular" band. The newly released video everyone's teenagers will be watching soon . Before you get too disturbed, remember that your teens view it like I do... a shocking and even darkly humorous political commentary. They don't view it as a an anthem to evil. There is a four letter word that starts with "s" in case anyone will be overly offended. There is also what I consider a contrived disclaimer at the end, which kids will talk about and make fun of... but still TALK ABOUT, which is good, very good. It is signed by MCR so it will make even the most cynical kidddos think about it, and will result in a positive outcome in my opinion. I've been practicing this one for karaoke, and bugging my buddy to get his band to learn it. I think the adults of these children should be talking about it as well.

posted June 01, 2007 12:26 PM         

Because the drugs never work
They’re gonna give you a smirk
‘Cause they got methods of keepin' you clean
They’re gonna rip up your heads
Your aspirations to shreds
Another cog in the murder machine

They said all teenagers scare
The living sh!t out of me
They could care less
As long as someone'll bleed
So darken your clothes
Or strike a violent pose
Maybe they’ll leave you alone, but not me

The boys and girls in a clique
The awful names that they stick
You’re never gonna fit in much, kid
But if you’re troubled and hurt
What you got under your shirt
Will make them pay for the things that they did

posted June 01, 2007 01:01 PM         

How do you explain, that to except these bad negative things, is to say they are okay, that you condone them?

My girls are going to be 16 and 17 this July, in high school, the herd mentality is, drugs, violence, drinking, smoking, is all okay, it's everywhere, it's accpetable, follow the herd, if everyone is doing it, it must be okay!

The more our children are exposed to the negative dark forces, the more it becomes acceptable, because, hey, everybody is doing it, look, even here at Lindaland it's acceptable. Like, begets like!

Well, it's not okay, it's not alright, and Linda Goodman would be appalled, at how people think today, or lack of thinking, of the Big Picture, every action has a re-action, we are supposed to lead by example, are we providing good examples?

Beware of what you think is acceptable, for your children will lead by your example. ...