posted December 08, 2007 11:18 AM         

"But Gordon has also emphatically and critically written (in a book-excerpt published in Utne Reader in March/April 1989): "Rajneesh... failed to live what he knew and taught. He ignored what he did not care to deal with in himself, tried to silence or obliterate people or situations or points of view that threatened or contradicted him. From the time he broke his 'silence' in October 1984, he said again and again, 'I am just an ordinary man... ordinariness is blessed.... Gods are projections.' But every day he continued to act more special, more controlling and godlike, more removed from the flux of life and from his own and others' ordinary humanity. In the end, Rajneesh became the kind of man, the kind of religious leader, he had always derided. If indeed his ego had once dissolved and melted like a drop into the ocean, it seemed over the years to have renewed and enlarged, and in his isolation it grew gross with his attachment to power and luxury and position. He became more power-hungry and more deceitful than any of the politicians he attacked,... more sanctimonious than the saints he derided. On his [Oregon] ranch, surrounded by armed guards, dressed up and doped up, imperious and imperial, he resembled Jim Jones far more than Buddha or Krishna or Jesus. He was unwilling to learn or change, or to admit that there was anything to be learned or changed.""

"pressured sterilizations of female disciples"

"physical, emotional and verbal violence"

"Ramana Das visited Rajneesh’s Poona One ashram in Oct.-Dec., 1978... Ramana Das was/is no prude, nerd, or scold, but was a traveling singer of Hindu devotional bhajans/kirtan, and later himself a practicing left-hand tantricist."

Ramana Das:
"Although I came to Poona with a generally positive feeling about Rajneesh from some exposure to his tapes and books,... the reality that confronted me here caused me to totally reassess my previous experiences after two or three days.... I found out that in order to speak with Rajneesh, one must already be a sannyasi or be ready to become sannyasi. In other words, one can only speak with master if he is part of the master’s group, or anxious to join it.... the "meat and potatoes" of most groups were sex, sensuality, fantasy, repression, anger and violence—his leaders, his groups and his ashram all reflected this approach to enlightenment. As for unselfish, unconditional love, it was a quality and a vibration noticeable only by its lack of manifestation."

"[Ramana Das goes on to speak of his idyllic times at Ramanashramam and at a 10-day Buddhist vipassana meditation course at S.N. Goenka’s Igatpuri center, and meeting in early 1979 a true “living master,” of spiritual wisdom, Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj of Bombay. In implicit contrast, he also notes how everything is free at Neem Karoli Baba's ashrams, at Ramanashramam, at Igatpuri, and around Maharaj—all unlike the case with Poona One and Rajneesh.]"

"Calder's essay has some pertinent information on Rajneesh:

posted December 08, 2007 11:21 AM         

It goes on and on like that,
with Calder's essay, it seems,
repressented in full.

I have nothing more to say.

Except:

You're welcome.

quote:

---

All right so I decided to go with a negative mind in looking for Osho in my own way

---

I never told you to go with a negative mind,
so that part definitely is your own way.
I do think it takes courage to look into the shadows,
and I commend you on mustering it up.

quote:

---

in my own way

---

After I pointed you in the right direction,
you went your own way. Okay.

quote:

---

and this is the article I bumped across initially. It kind of sums up my own views of Osho so far.

---

So, you've had a change of view.
That's great!
It takes courage to admit when you are wrong, too.
I'm proud of you, Mannu.

posted December 08, 2007 02:38 PM         

And I don't hate anyone not including Osho. In fact I love him because he is crazy

And I have repeated it often, I am visiting his garden and building a bouquet of flowers that I think will help me. I don't have to pluck all flowers. Why can't you admit that? Although I tell you people who can't discern must not read him. Perhaps give them midschool teachings stuff they teach in the church.

You never replied "Will you stop going to church if one of the priests is sexually pervert?"

Osho was not well physically perhaps and cud be on medication, who knows. Also I told you avoid taking drugs before enlightenment. Osho has every right to take drug after his enlightenment. One day you will admit to that. And besides I never tell people don't do this. Osho is so similar to me. If you tell people don't, thats the first thing they will do.

And believe it or not I have started disliking the character Jesus of the bible and his current earth ministry. Perhaps its just a important phase of my life. Will explain some day later.

posted December 08, 2007 02:47 PM         

quote:

---

while many of these persons will openly admit as true all the serious flaws and foibles pointed out by his many critics (such critics—including James Gordon, Julian Lee, and especially Christopher Calder— are quoted at some length at this webpage), these faithful disciples nevertheless still express tremendous gratitude and appreciation for all that they learned and received from Rajneesh over their months or years with this "gifted" and "remarkable" man, as several of his devotees have described him in their emails to me.

---

And that Rolls Royce episode is a beautiful story please read his books and you will agree with me on that one, I hope.

posted December 08, 2007 02:49 PM         

This prick didn't come in Jesus's name. His former disciples came to him without dropping Jesus's name. Hahah....These folks can't drop the sunday school teaching thats imbedded in them looks like.

Jesus said don't abuse the holy spirit and this guy has the courage to say the holy spirit ****** Mary

Must I interpret what he meant? When you are spiritually developed, automatically you will laugh. Didn't you cry one day when you saw Jesus on the cross?

posted December 08, 2007 02:56 PM         

All of us are actors wearing a mask for our own pleasure/displeasure.

posted December 08, 2007 04:13 PM         

quote:

---

"Will you stop going to church if one of the priests is sexually pervert?"

---

I'll stop going to that priest.

quote:

---

people we hate are the part of ourselves that we hate.
Perhaps you are not ready to learn that lesson not yet.

---

I could say the same to you.
You reject my posts, as I reject Osho's books.

The difference is that I speak from my heart,
and what I say is full of insight and eternal truth, -
while Osho lied intentionally, spreading harmful disinformation,
and committed all the crimes which you see fit to overlook.

For the record,
I never said anything about "hating" Osho, or anyone.
But you are labelling well-meaning dissenters as "losers" and "pricks".

You have a foul air of condescention, Mannu,
and I find many of your posts and comments
as disagreeable as you find mine.

You've mentioned your boycott of my posts before, -
evidently, you were bluffing because here you are.
Contrary to what you may think,
it wont break my heart if you dont respond.

posted December 08, 2007 05:11 PM         

Does that mean I cant learn from their mistakes?

Am I denying a part of myself, Mannu,
when I reject "Mein Komph" and take "The Dhammapada"?

No.

I am creating myself.

"The gentleman advances,
because he leaves this, and takes that."
- Chuang Tzu

posted December 08, 2007 07:49 PM         

I meant Osho never came in Jesus's name.
I am calling him prick out of respect.

I finally got a book of Osho called "Zen - the art of Living". All right later.

posted December 08, 2007 08:00 PM         

quote:

---

I said:>>This prick didn't come in Jesus's name
I meant Osho never came in Jesus's name.
I am calling him prick out of respect.

---

Thanks for clearing that up.

But you did say "losers", no?

Out of disrespect?

Anyway, you are right:
He didnt come in Jesus' name.
Instead, he took the name "Bhagwan",
and took a sh!t on Jesus' name.

posted December 08, 2007 08:10 PM         

So yeah I called him loser as per any Zen understanding

posted December 08, 2007 08:22 PM         

Why do you compare yourself with Osho?
And why do you want me to believe you?
Of what I know of you, your truth is relativistic.The day your truth will speak to many people as if you are exclusively talking to them, you will be known as the enlightened one. keep trying. learn humilty. its the first step to wards it.

We are all on different paths we are attracted to each others teachings based on our own level in the spiritual ladder.

Some one told me the other day that they post here and sometimes wonder if people read them. Its like asking for a reward for a job you are doing. The west is born with that mentality. Give something to take something. Krishna has taught exactly this: Do not expect any reward "just do it" and leave the consequence to me. Jesus in a parable often spoke of how God invites people to his banquet. My understanding is this: Everything you can imagine is kept on the table. And he is waiting for you to begin eating. Because of our conditioning including , we think how can we without Gods approval. God as a host enjoys only when the guest enjoys.

Perhaps you are distanced from Osho because you are not ready to hear him.

A rose is a rose is a rose - another talk by Osho.

BTW, he said this in a video - a marigold and rose cannot compare each other , its important they realize that they are flowers.

And for the record : I told many times, I only enjoy listening to truths of enlightened ones. May be I am biased yes. But when did I ever hurt unenlightened ones? I am fortunate to have a master who is enlightened. He himself never told me don't listen to this or don't do that. Whatever time I do get to spend in his presence, I grow.

I don't read any ones posts or books on spiritual master because it does not come from experience. It may come from heart. I care about it coming from the being. To know about this 'being' is the way to Zen.

And who knows when will I drop Osho on my way. I don't worry about the future, I am trying to live in the present. Is it too much to ask?

posted December 08, 2007 08:49 PM         

In the end Rajneesh wanted people to know him as Osho (in japanes - it means, the whole man).

Is God complete with out the existence of Devil?

Don't you recite Jesus's prayers?

Have you missed the wholeness there?

posted December 08, 2007 08:59 PM         

Its normal to disagree.
I often mentioned that I don't like typing.
People here boasts of superior grammar and eloquency. I am just an ordinary person for whom english is a second language. There fore I use words that may appear blunt and condescending. Heh I do have something to learn and worry. I think coming here often has helped me tremendously in my communication skills. But tell me when I use the word 'fanny' and based on your understanding you will relate with it and ask me why I am being condescending to woman. I may not have any evil intent but you may take it as evil. People call Ford the car maker 'Fix Or Repair Daily'. Does it have any effect on the quality of the cars they make? Arent they all peoples imagination. Heheh...

And no, I don't boycott your post. Why should I? Thats the death of me if I do. Thats not what Zen teaches. Actually I don't know even know what Zen is either. All these people talk big big things , give definitions and labels. I am just trying to live honestly and enjoying creation as well. I don't feel its a need to comment on your post at times. It does not mean I am superior. Why must I spoil your fun as you often claim you are having when you share?

I do believe Osho ignited the spark within him and I wanna study him. Perhaps I am already enlightened the same way as you believe you are too, except that I don't believe that I am and you believe that you are. LOL I had an epiphany :Perhaps we must start living as if we are already enlightened. As Kat mentioned - sing , dance, play. Don't even create your belief system. Hehe.... I am glad some one is reading those posts.

Are you complementing me or creating a hinderance for me? You have posted the same thing so many times at every place? Do you think I didn't notice it first time? Or did you expect me to comment on what you posted every time you did? Whats your objective? I still don't get it? Sorry for the miscommunication.

posted December 08, 2007 09:52 PM         

quote:

---

A rose is a rose is a rose - another talk my Osho.

BTW, he said this in a video - a marigold and rose cannot compare each other , its important they realize that they are flowers.

---

Skunk cabbage has a flower too but I won`t grow it under my nose.

Step back and review the Masters Works and deeds then compare to Holy Texts. It is that simple to see which is a flower and which is smelling sweet to disguise the poison it contains.

This thought goes for Osho or any who claims Mastership and their works/deeds are alien to all Holy Text.

I don`t have a horse in the race here but feel it is important one reviews the Master they wish to follow. The master of self/materialism/lust or a higher Master that counsels Spirit over flesh.

My 2 cents for the subject.

------------------
~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted December 08, 2007 10:02 PM         

Zen does not require belief in scriptures. It perhaps is good for christians and islam and other text book religions.

posted December 08, 2007 10:32 PM         

quote:

---

Osho never asked people who already has a savior to come to him and still those losers who wrote that article did.

---

then he said:

quote:

---

Theres a Master - Disciple talk "Only losers can win in this game" by Osho.
So yeah I called him loser as per any Zen understanding.

---

What should I make of this?
Did you really forget that you called Calder a loser?
And replace it with a false memory of calling Osho a "loser"?

quote:

---

We are all on different paths we are attracted to each others teachings based on our own level in the spiritual ladder.

---

And you are attracted to the teachings
of a raving, narcissistic, lying pervert.
Got it.

quote:

---

Perhaps I am already enlightened the same way as you believe you are too, except that I don't believe that I am and you believe that you are.

---

I dont believe I am enlightened.
Please dont put words in my mouth.

I said I was honest,
and that I post a lot of insights and universal truths.
So do many people here.
We are not all claiming to be enlightened.
And I can assure you, you are not enlightened.

quote:

---

You have posted the same thing so many times at every place? Do you think I didn't notice it first time? Or did you expect me to comment on what you posted every time you did? Whats your objective? I still don't get it? Sorry for the miscommunication.

---

I was posting for the sake of all who open those Osho threads,
and only addressing myself, at times, to you.

posted December 08, 2007 11:34 PM         

No he is a loser still in my opinion.

Why is it false ?
You guys haven't read Osho at all and making tall statements. Have you?

I am still laughing at his joke "The holy spirit ****** Mary".

posted December 08, 2007 11:36 PM         

I told you already your truth does not appeal to me. It lacks experience. But then who cares. Perhaps you have a league of your own fans.
I am glad for you and those friends.
Can I have my own freedom please?

posted December 08, 2007 11:38 PM         

I see , so you did have some agenda there. Loser

posted December 09, 2007 12:53 AM         

It has more to do with my Aquarian than Scorpion traits.

Please dont take it so personally.

I'm not trying to manipulate you.

I'm stating my views,
clearly and effectively;
the only way I know how.

posted December 09, 2007 08:41 AM         

BTW I was reading his book that I got recently and Osho is quoted to have said "there was none like him at his time except J K Krishnamurthy , but he was dead."

It is media that wants to spread lies about spiritual people. Or even shun them. But truth shall be revealed.

Anyhow back to reading this genius.