posted December 12, 2007 03:40 PM         

Here's a quote for the "Osho quote thread".

quote:

---

"Laughter is prayer. If you can laugh you have learnt how to pray. Don't be serious; a serious person can never be religious. Only a person who can laugh, not only at others but at himself also, can be religious. A person who can laugh absolutely, who sees the whole ridiculousness and the whole game of life, becomes enlightened in that laughter." - The Art Of Dying

---

posted December 12, 2007 03:42 PM         

Very wise, interesting answers.

Thank you for sharing.

posted December 12, 2007 03:45 PM         

Anyone can laugh,
and shirk the world.

To laugh,
and to do what must be done, -
that requires true strength.

~ Heart-Shaped Cross

posted December 12, 2007 03:47 PM         

"Laugh and shirk the world"?

posted December 12, 2007 03:57 PM         

The zen quote is similar to the story recounted about Shams and Hezrat Molana (RA).

Shams burned all of Hezrat Molana's books. In another account he threw them all in the river.

The popular interpretation of this is that "books are not necessary". This is the justification for the ignorant to remain ignorant. The actual meaning however, was that

"When you have mastered the knowledge contained in the books, there is no need to retain the shell"

Shams woke Hezrat Molana to his own accumulated wisdom. Books and study in the way we understand it was no longer needed.

In the popular understanding, the zen story is an excuse to avoid developing discernment. If Gold and Dung are interchangable then why should one strive to discern the difference?

The actual meaning of the zen story is that, once you have mastered zen, it, as a concept/notion/idea, has no further use/beauty/attachment for you. The inverse is also true. Gold will also loose its hold on your attention. But first you must learn the properties of gold and dung so that you can transcend both.

posted December 12, 2007 03:58 PM         

"Here the ways of men part:
If your desire is for happiness and peace of mind, believe.
If you wish to know the truth, inquire."
~ Nietsche

posted December 12, 2007 04:02 PM         

Will you be my guru?

posted December 12, 2007 04:05 PM         

quote:

---

We have something in commone then. What would you have me show you? I can point to dung and say it is dung, and I can point to a rose and say it is a rose. I can show you any number of things. What I cannot do is prove it to you.

Everything can be shown, not everything can be understood. That is the heart of the problem.

---

Thank you.

posted December 12, 2007 04:07 PM         

"The actual meaning of the zen story is that, once you have mastered zen, it, as a concept/notion/idea, has no further use/beauty/attachment for you. The inverse is also true. Gold will also loose its hold on your attention. But first you must learn the properties of gold and dung so that you can transcend both."

That is what I thought the meaning of it was.

posted December 12, 2007 04:16 PM         

quote:

---

Jesus wasn't christian. Buddha was not buddhist. The first sufi wasn't sufist

---

what a sufi thing to say!

posted December 12, 2007 04:37 PM         

When you are pulled towards Kabir, Nanak, Buddha, you have a strange feeling. The feeling is that you are being pulled towards them and at the same time you are being pulled inwards -- a very strange paradoxical phenomenon

at the closer you come to your guru, the closer you come yourself. The more you become attracted towards the guru, the more you become independent. The more you become surrendered to the guru, the more you feel that you have freedom you never had before.

posted December 12, 2007 04:37 PM         

I respect sufism because its not islam. Its not mainstream. It is deep

I love gnostism for the same reasons. But I only find fundamental christians around here.

Well you guys already anwered my response regarding dung and perfume. Hahaha nice analogy.

posted December 12, 2007 04:42 PM         

>>>I never respond to anything that I have not followed closely.

I know you believe you understand what you think I said; but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant

posted December 12, 2007 04:43 PM         

Wash away all truths that you don't think makes sense, discard them. A new learning will be put in to you.

posted December 12, 2007 05:05 PM         

Well you can't understand him. So perhaps my response will also not make any difference.

You guys didn't understand me. I often told I was a chaos and look I already found this genious Osho speaking the same words that I choose. It was a natural discovery. My parents didn't force it on me. My friends didn't make fun of me.

A mystic can sit in a corolla or royce with the same bliss. It is your understanding of him that is absurd.
A mind can kill a mind. But a mystic is already dead. Now you will ask explain? I can't you have to experience it. The disciples wanted to give him 365 rolls royce, one for each day. To silence the government who was constantly bugging him. I played the game of ego with you thinking perhaps you will understand.

Perhaps a scorp cannot understand a Saggi , because saggi is the next evolution for him.

Didn't Jesus fool 1 billion people on earth? Did he gave them the brain to think? He gave them blind beliefs. He encouraged blind faith. And belief "son of God" and all that crap.

More buddhists are enlightenend than christians, in its true sense. Look what catholics did to St Francis.

Even more people could have been enlightened if buddha didn't allow woman in his minister. Buddha said that. He said his life of ministry will be halved because of the risk he took. But still he chose to go ahead with having woman in his congregation. And if we look back in history, he was right. An enlightened being is not wrong.

Never mind. You are one pointed. It is good. Thats what Zen teaches you. But your one pointedness is in the wrong place.

Whom am I to break the image you have of your masters? If you are happy you won't be here to listen to others. You will simply be radiating joy.

Have more to say. Perhaps later.

And Osho did write on many mystics. He did an excellent Job in my opinion.

posted December 12, 2007 05:29 PM         

You were always ready to listen. But I was never ready to say.

OK. They say that Buddha was hostile towards Mahavira. But he used to praise him in privacy of few disciples. When they asked him "How come?". He replied "His teachings are different than Mahavira". If he tells everyone go practice what Mahavira teaches then what he found during enlightenment would not spread. Perhaps he believed his means for realization to be more than that of Mahavira. Buddhas teachings were indeed revolutionary those times. Unlike the hard tapas that people were performing. Perhaps he had a reason. Same with Osho perhaps. I don't think he is a fool. He has 3 planets in the eight house. That speaks something about him. I am attracted for a reason to what he said. He has opened a new dimension for us to experience unlike never before.

And he is critical of western pscychologists. If you remember I am too. Make a enlightened being stand in front of Freud and Freud can never understand him. He spoke all that non sense theory of 'son wants to sleep with mother', etc etc. Sick mind.

Bravo to my own Master who awakened me. And Bravo to Osho to confirming my truths.

More to say. But invest your life and money and time. The truth is infinite out there waiting for your discovery. Cheers!!!

posted December 12, 2007 05:43 PM         

You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to
your grandmother.
-- Albert Einstein

--------------------------------------------

“ Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike.
Take life as fun - because that’s precisely what it is! ”
~ Osho

<

"Fools despise correction."
~ Proverbs

--------------------------------------------

He must be very ignorant,
for he answers every question he is asked.
-- Voltaire

--------------------------------------

From the movie "Walk The Line":

johnny cash: It'll work itself out. It always does.

june carter: Wrong, John, It doesnt always work itself out.
People work it out for you and you think it works itself out.

--------------------------------

-----------------------------------

I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the highest
complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if
it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which
they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly
taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the
fabric of their lives.
-- Tolstoy

-------------------------------------------

"During the time I was in analysis with him, Fromm's technique changed from one that was extremely influenced by his then recent exploration into Zen Buddhism with D. T. Suzuki to one which emphasized a more systematic investigation into the patient's character and psyche."

Erich Fromm wrote a lot about the mother complex, and the feelings of mystical freedom linked to regression back to an oceanic state of awareness associated with the womb. He ultimately concluded that the true vocation of human beings is to strive with the use of the individual will to outgrow this complex. Astrology also shows the movement of development from lunar to solar consciousness, and from East to West. Nietzsche spoke of man as a "bridge", necessarily suspended between to points; not an end, but a means. Since then we have seen Chiron, often called "the bridge", grow in importance, with its themes of earthy wisdom, being in the body, and working with things as they are. Dane Rudhyar has called Chiron a possible Higher Moon.

-----------------

"Fixation to the mother is frequently found in clinical practice. In order to better understand this phenomenon, Erich Fromm's theories on the pre-oedipal attachment to the mother, maternal love and biophilia/necrophilia are presented... If one of the limits of matriarchy is that of not encouraging the process of individuation in children, the resulting fixation to the mother is not, however, malignant. Malignant forms tend to develop when the mother is hostile and cold towards her children, who are almost magnetically attracted to her in a necrophilic way. The myth and the two clinical cases also have in common a male figure who is immature or inadequate."

- Romano Biancoli, Ph.D.
"Mother Fixation and the Myth of Demeter"

Otto Rank was one of the first to extend psychoanalytic theory to cover creative production. Defining will as the integration of self-concept, he made it a central issue in the ego-psychology which he developed. Rank saw man as moving through existence from the trauma of the womb to the trauma of the tomb, beset with two fundamental fears-fear of life, and fear of death. Fear of life is fear of differentiation, of separation, of being oneself. Since it is the fear of independence, it causes regression to symbolic union with the mother figure. Fear of death is fear of integration, of joining with others, of having one's personality lost. Fear of life drives man to union with others; fear of death drives one to an assertion of oneself. Rank saw the measurement of development in an individual as the degree to which he achieves a constructive integration of these two polar opposites in his nature.
- http://www.csun.edu/edpsy/Gowan/intro1c.html

---------------------------

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a
faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant
and has forgotten the gift.
-- Albert Einstein