posted December 10, 2007 02:31 PM         

quote:

---

We miss the shots we don't take.

---

I wouldn't have learnt about him if it wasn't for you and other beautiful souls here.
And I believe you are ready to preach (*added later* or shine ) Zen/Tao now after all those silent years

People are very opinionated and have a certain idea about enlightenment, meritorious students, beautiful woman, ideal spouse or girlfriend, etc.
I love Osho because he refutes the absurdity in them and in that process frees you of the things that brings both joy and misery.
I could go on and on. But HSC has an inbuilt quality of being argumentative and I already told him that
when he silences perhaps I can share some more with him and he with me.
Perhaps he is not the guy we can imagine to be sitting in a lotus position
What do you think will make you find your center, Steve? Any attraction to a specific technique? I am just curious.

Perhaps when HSC and Mystic melody and everyone else who understood how Jesus was conceived they too could laugh out loud.

Like I am laughing now
I am not being insecure, am I? LOL

posted December 10, 2007 03:01 PM         

I am actually making a complete ass of myself.

No, my feelings are not hurt. I do not hold to any claims. It was HSC who seemed shaken as I could see from his agenda. He promised to follow up every post of mine about Osho with a mug shot of Osho. And I will balance it with a good posting about Osho as a balancer
Isn't a sixth of the world following the religion of an arrested Jesus. Help me out , whats so different here? Atleast the latter was convicted and got capital punishment and the former was acquitted. Does the world need another crucified teacher?

Perhaps that is the only way HSC will understand how Osho got all those Rolls Royce

posted December 10, 2007 03:50 PM         

There is a strong sense of Contradiction at work in the current situation. It may be a matter of opposing viewpoints -- persons who are working at cross purposes to one another or an inner duality that brings indecision. You must now gain an understanding of these divergent forces and better accord yourself with the times. Great achievements are out of the question, since they cannot come about without complete co-operation and alignment. Only small endeavors and gradual influences will meet with good fortune.

In spite of the Contradiction presented by opposing ideologies in political matters, there is a possibility for ultimate unity. In fact, the kind of unity that develops from contrasting forces is often more significant than allegiances that occur casually and without forethought. Therefore this existing polarity may very well create the ideal conditions for unanimity. Do not become impatient or reactionary. Instead, make gradual attempts to overcome political estrangement. A little diplomacy can now go a long way toward eventual order and co-operation.

Business or social strategies may appear ineffective, as they are neutralized by equal but opposing forces. Ambitious goals must wait for a more supportive atmosphere. Your best course of action now is to affirm friendly relations. Avoid being drawn into any questionable schemes. Do not make a grab for position. Use the existing polarity to emphasize the need for more co-operative vonditions or for far-sighted differentiations. This will help you organize well-ordered, working systems.

The Contradiction that exists in family life and personal relationships is classic in form. The divergent wills of siblings, for instance, are in a state of opposition. Naturally, in the larger cycle these blood ties will become the basis for union, but for the present they are opposed. There now exists an atmosphere for misunderstandings or estrangement between men and women. Their inherent polarity is at its peak as they retreat into their own individual natures. Bridging the gap that is now present is a profound moment in relationships. It is the eternal dance of the sexes, the prerequisite for significant union. Such contradictions only highlight the pleasant possibilities of exchange. Use small, influences now to bring about this mutual accord.

This is a time when you may meet with the dualism in your own nature. You may appear indecisive or equivocal to others as you weigh contradicting viewpoints. Never before have you been able to see both sides so clearly. Arbitrary predispositions such as patriotism, clannishness, fixed ideas of principle or class prejudice may become less important in your life as you begin to see things in the larger overview. The struggle between good and evil, life and death, and all such opposites may appear to be simply the natural interaction of the great forces in the universe, as you develop the perspective of a sage.
This sense of oneness or wholeness in a world of Contradiction can bring you great depth of character and peace of mind.

~ The I Ching Workbook by R.L.Wing

posted December 10, 2007 04:29 PM         

I've thought so much this past year about Conduct and how important it is to live the integrity of one's Soul, cogniscient of how delicate our interactions are on our journeys....cogniscient of how profoundly challenging our interactions can be to all we better know and feel we have learned. Each moment, no matter how small, like a test.
Do we remain unshaken in principle, ever strengthening ever expanding our potential or in emotion become vulnerable and fall back?
And even so, isn't everything in its realness, in its moment in time, a potential small trip regaining (revealing) greater stride?

I will say that Osho came to me at such a critical time that aligned so significantly with my spiritual journey...so meaningful was it, that that grace given will never be lost to me.

I always noticed contradictions in things he said. Is there a Being or Belief that is stately immune from contradiction? I see them in everything. When I notice them of myself, its awakening...it's humbling.

I was surprised to read the claims of things he'd done. I didn't know, I'd never heard.
Although, drug use doesn't mean good or bad to me, or the loss of sage, the rest (dictatoring, molesting innocence, poison )although I remain open and skeptical simultaneously, such things are significant enough to cause pause and leave my eyes a bit more open.
Everything comes in time for a purpose.
Perhaps this revealment has its purpose as well?

I've always believed a man's actions are more significant than his words.
For the intuitive, who strain their ears to truly listen to what is most meaningful...

the wisdom, the love is there where we know it and feel it. True Spirit, True Grace.
Exuding Energy of Soul even in its most quiet, unglorified emissions.

I don't know.
I wait and listen.
NOthing is lost once gained,
but what may still be gained for even more
broadening possibilities presented?
Is something here?
I haven't read all of Osho's work.
I would still read, open to wonder, only perhaps with an even more discerning eye.
Perhaps with even more conviction to make it a focus to follow through on all I believe.
Probably for the better.

posted December 10, 2007 05:10 PM         

Damn. I could have read him all these years and I didn't because of all those controversies surrounding him.

If Osho is guilty because of his disciples act then I believe Jesus is equally guilty for the sexual perversion by catholic and other priests throughout the world. No exception.

I have always believed 'people were chaos'. And it appears that truth will stay a long time before that too passes.

Whether Osho or Jesus. They all were human beings who walked earth. Perhaps their lessons will help me in my own future. We have to be in the 70's , and 80's to understand the ambrosia then. I am sure it was spectacular. Not the sad and gloomy environment that Jesus had at his time and still hundreds of people still do standing in pulpits every sunday Geez. Osho is right on about the hyprocrisy of society and government. He has passed, but his jokes continues to work on peoples mind.

He must be given the Nobel prize for peace one day.

posted December 10, 2007 06:41 PM         

quote:

---

If Osho is guilty because of his disciples act then I believe Jesus is equally guilty for the sexual perversion by catholic and other priests throughout the world. No exception.

---

Interesting way to think about it.
I don't know if Osho is guilty of anything or not. I just said I'd be even more discerning.
(I'm always discerning,lol)

Because the Wisdom I'd gathered was so meaningful, I don't believe there still isn't wisdom to be discovered through him. (why I mentioned not having read all his stuff yet).
Every man has the potential for Divine Insights.
What he does or carries onwards from them, rather Osho himself, or you or me or anyone, is his/her choice. Another moment altogether from the insight. What will he do with it?
What shall he create?

Osho's gift (I believe) was the ability to give rise to Insights into One Self and all Creation. To me they stand Pure in their space and time, as Divine Madness. (a very good thing) If he was corrupted rather than asailed from his own gift (as others are and have been), I find it very sad and it's something else to consider; perhaps learn from. I just don't see the value in dismissing it.

Reading Osho, I often thought his greatest contradiction to his loftier visions, was his hostility towards Christianity and organized religion. It never felt or sat right with me. It seemed to limit a possible much broader all-compassing and compassionate, non-judgemental way of Being.
A way of Being, that all elsewhere he strove to inspire.
Although I'm a great believer in seeking Your own Religion, like he taught....that Doubt brings about truer Faith, etc.

I just felt this extreme Division of thought; either this or that. Religion or No Religion...
was oddly contrary and restrictive to the very Freedom of spiritual exploration he was defending and non-labeling he encouraged.

But none of that takes away the Jewels.

posted December 10, 2007 07:35 PM         

Have you and 26T both lost your hats?

And why aren't any of you posting on my Winter Holiday thread? Bunch of Scrooges.

Have a nice debate. I thought there were supposed to be Osho quotes on here... what does the cad have to say?

Hi Lia

posted December 10, 2007 07:41 PM         

"Surrender and I will do the rest"

(MWAHAhahahahhahhaaaaaaaaa)

"-- The wise 'con' man known as Osho" <Mannu

hehe

just kidding

posted December 10, 2007 09:37 PM         

Anyway...

MysticMelody, Please dont hesitate to say anything to me ever. Your thoughts are always welcome here!! I just found it humorous that it seemed HSC and i were hurting each other because i didnt feel or see it that way at all. I know you meant well and I appreciate that. Thank you for commenting and trying to help the situation.

p.s. I lost my hat a long time ago. Please let me know if you find it.

posted December 10, 2007 09:40 PM         

Anyway, I was angry for a while,
desperate, erratic, confused, and self-despising.

But my mom talked to me about how her father liked to debate, when he was younger, and how he was very smart but he never graduated high school, and he felt like he always had to prove himself, and he had to be right, and to convince you, and he wouldnt leave anything alone, or "agree to disagree". All I knew about him is that he is a Taurus and a sweetheart; funny and soft-spoken. She says he mellowed out a ton, and he used to be really difficult to live with. She says it runs in the family.

There's just so much I could say. My mind is prolific. My passions are like a firehose at full blast, and I can't believe I am expected to hold this thing all by myself. How can I possibly direct it in the right directions all the time? Who could do that? Its not easy for a Scorpio with an afflicted Pluto to control himself.

I understand about your Sagittarian generosity of spirit,
having infinite faith in people... I wish I had as much at times.
Mostly I think I have to save everybody all the time.
And I get so frustrated I lose sight of whats important.
"Why do they hate me, I'm trying to love them!?!?"
Smotherly love. Angry smotherly love.

Sorry guys.

I love you, Lisa.

You really do amaze me with your composure and good sense.

I love you more and more.

I'm sorry.
I'm sorry if I disapponted you today.
I am so tired of disappointing myself.

I'm so sad.

I want to die,
but I've read the Bardo.
That is a contradiction, lol.

So, I can also laugh.

And I know a secret.

There is no last laugh.

posted December 10, 2007 09:41 PM         

Pssst... Osho never apologized.

Okay, Okay, I'll drop it.

Thank you, Melody.
Scarecrow, I'll miss you most of all.

Lisa, dont be jealous.
You dont get to be Scarecrow this time.
This time, you get to be the Story;
the Rainbow and the Yellow Brick Road.

You are all so cool.

Except you, Mannu.
You aren't cool.
I dont like you.

Okay, Okay.

Sorry.

I'll go play somewhere else,
but let me take Jesus with me.
You can have Osho, I wont badmouth him.
But no more slandering Jesus.

He wasnt as somber as the rest of us, Mannu.
He turned water into wine at a wedding,
when they had run out of wine.
He knew how to have fun.
But he also knew how to start a revolution
in the heart of the Western World.

I'm going to go read about the demon Ravana now.
Some Indain woman, a disciple of Osho's
said he was an incarnation of this demon.

"The devil has power to assume pleasing shapes."
~ William Shakespeare

"One may smile and smile, and be a villain."
~ Shakespeare

Okay, Okay...

posted December 10, 2007 09:45 PM         

I have a lot of respect and love for him and dont want fight or argue with him. In fact, i dont think it's possible. Even if it were, i would choose not to.

Love to you, S.

posted December 10, 2007 09:53 PM         

Thank you Steve.

posted December 10, 2007 10:06 PM         

Utimate Faith in You, Always.

posted December 11, 2007 02:03 AM         

We are just good as we are. Simply living our choices. We can be better in whatever we are doing and thats what Zen is about. Zen means dhyana. The only science that has stood the test of time and will stand the test of time anywhere you go. And thats why Osho sounds egoist or arrogant and what not. When I see him from my lens he is none of it.

Leave your anxiety about how enlightened ones should or should not be like? I have the privelege of watching 2 beings from close quarters. I better get enlightened this lifetime LOL.

I have said it before. I and other enlightened ones dislike Jesus for doing so many miracles. If he didn't , he would have lived longer and preached for more than 3 years and people would have documented him better. He is an idiot in my opinion also.
Perhaps Mohammed was a natural need on planet earth after Jesus.

Also you said
>>>> Some Indain woman, a disciple of Osho's
said he was an incarnation of this demon.

False. Its all imagination of people. Ravana already lived 2 other reincarnation before returning to his master vishnu.

You said Osho didn't apologize? When?
When a superior man hears of the Tao, he practices it. An ordinary one ignores it. An inferior man laughs at it.

Osho is a superior man. He can't apologize. LOL. Nietzsce says : didn't jesus sound superior when he asked people to turn other cheek? Giving him the other cheek means you have reduced the man to a worm. Its insulting.

And in my opinion, it was a tradition in the jewish not to hit your slaves with the back of your palm. So turn your cheek means you are telling your master, please complete what you are doing. I am a human too as you are. See it does not appear inferior nor inhuman. Its all perception.

Nietze says didn't Jesus insult people by calling people foolish. Did he give them the dignity of knowing what they are doing? "Father forgive them for they know not what they do?". LOL.

Humility and arrogance are the same thing except different temperature from a Zen perspective.

Mysticmelody : I will try to post from the zen book what is surrendering. Its beautiful and deep. Perhaps tomorrow.

Lialei - I will also post from that book on why he was against organized religion. He goes in to a flow and it falls in to 2 pages. I have to type all that. Will try tomorrow.

Goodnite folks.

posted December 11, 2007 02:12 AM         

I love happy endings.

Oh wait, Mannu just posted...

MeloGy?

I know what surrendering spiritually means, Mannu. I just thought it was weird that he said Surrender to ME.

Know what I mean?

posted December 11, 2007 02:17 AM         

I think you have to read it yourself. Its beautiful.

He is dead now. Perhaps it was meant more for his close disciples. Perhaps he wanted his message to go across several intelligent people after his death. When a guru dies he needs disciples or friends to document/spread his teachings that is so unique and revolutionary as per the needs of those time. J K krishnamurthy was different in that regard. He didn't wanted any followers. But he ended up getting them LOL. What an irony.
I think its impossible not to have followers.

I don't know much on Osho. On what he has to offer. Perhaps how to be silent and not feel asleep out of boredom I gather he had an interesting tip on how to experience silence. I just started studying him. I can't type everything here can I? Invest your time,money and life folks.

One always has to surrender to the energy called guru first before he surrenders you to God. If you can surrender yourself to God, you don't need any guru really.

And a teacher never dies. He is always available if you need him.

Of what I read, he does not care if we come to him or go to old religious folks or new ones. He just equips us with truths for our own salvation, I think.

posted December 11, 2007 02:58 AM         

I would rather say perform some meditation of some sort for your inner development. It always helps where ever you go. And thats what I meant by experiencing silence and making it your friend.

And also read and imbibe as much as you can about quality people , perhaps you will remember what they said as you travel on.

quote:

---

Sitting silently , doing nothing
The spring comes
And the grass grows by itself

No method ever helps . How can a method help? A method can help to create something unnatural. Nature has not to be created -- it is already there. It has to be lived, enjoyed, danced, sung. It is already there! You need not do anything. The grass is already growing. The spring has come! But you cannot sit silently. You have so much restlessness -- that restlessness needs methods. I give you methods, not because through methods you will become enlightened, but through methods you will come to know how stupid you are -- and that is great enlightenement! - Osho - Zen and the art of living

---

posted December 11, 2007 10:31 AM         

:fireworks:

Dec. 11, 1931
5:13 PM (11:43 GMT)
Kuchwada (Gadawara)
Madhya Pradesh, India
23N16, 77E24
22:09:30 LST

quote:

---

My trust in existence is absolute. If there is any truth in what I am saying, it will survive... The people who remain interested in my work will be simply carrying the torch, but not imposing anything on anyone...
"I will remain a source of inspiration to my people... I want them to grow on their own - qualities like love, around which no church can be created, like awareness, which is nobody's monopoly; like celebration, rejoicing, and remaining fresh, childlike eyes...

"I want my people to know themselves, not to be according to someone else. And the way is in."

- Osho

---