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Author Topic:   The Book of Revelation--God's Wrath
Ami Anne
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posted September 26, 2012 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From my understanding of your position, you do not separate the Bible and God, for you they are intrinsically linked, your position is

1: God exists.

2: Is never wrong.

3: By the act of (1) and (2) the Bible is never wrong.

This is my position 1000%
I can't see your reasoning here with Neb. I will have to study your post a bit.

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juniperb
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posted September 26, 2012 03:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for juniperb     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whispers, how intriguing. A Discordian and a Born Again Christian discussing the Bible and God.

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We dance around the ring and suppose, but the secret sits in the middle and Knows
Robert Frost

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Ami Anne
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posted September 26, 2012 04:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok Lei
I just read this. This does not disprove the Bible, at all. Neb was brought against the people( Israel/the Jews) cuz they disobeyed God. Better go back to the drawing board, Friend

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Ami Anne
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posted September 26, 2012 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is that ALLLL you can find

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katatonic
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posted September 26, 2012 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
ami your blinders are working overtime.

the prophecy was more than nebuchadnezzar coming to the gates...it was about him destroying tyre

which he did NOT do

hence le-kuei's "fail"..i won't argue with your faith even when i disagree with it...but play fair!

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Ami Anne
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posted September 26, 2012 07:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
ami your blinders are working overtime.

the prophecy was more than nebuchadnezzar coming to the gates...it was about him destroying tyre

which he did NOT do

hence le-kuei's "fail"..i won't argue with your faith even when i disagree with it...but play fair!


Where did it say "destroy"? I don't see that word. You have to use the right meaning of words.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 26, 2012 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
. . I am going to bring against Tyre Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon . . ."

". . . He will ravage your settlements on the mainland . . ."

". . . he will set up siege works against you . . ."

". . . He will direct the blows . . ."

". . . with his weapons . . ."

". . . His horses will be so many . . ."

". . . when he enters your gates . . ."

". . . The hoofs of his horses will trample . . ."

". . . he will kill your people . . ."

Where does it say "destroy"

Damascus, Syria will be RUBBLE. Rubble is destroy.
You got to do better than this? Is this all you have? Man, you guys are easy

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Ami Anne
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posted September 26, 2012 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Lei and Kat
Get you back to the Bible Saith Ami Anne

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Lei_Kuei
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posted September 26, 2012 10:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, Blinkers ye have, Blinkers ye not even know ye have...

Ezekiel - Chapter 26 - The God That Failed!

[KVJ] ~ http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&c=26&v=1&t=KJV&sstr=0

And it came to pass in the eleventh year, in the first [day] of the month, [that] the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken [that was] the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished, [now] she is laid waste:

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up.

And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

It shall be [a place for] the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken [it], saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.

It shall be [a place for] the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea: for I have spoken [it], saith the Lord GOD: and it shall become a spoil to the nations.

And her daughters which [are] in the field shall be slain by the sword; and they shall know that I [am] the LORD.

For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee.

And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.

By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach.

With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground.

And they shall make a spoil of thy riches, and make a prey of thy merchandise: and they shall break down thy walls, and destroy thy pleasant houses: and they shall lay thy stones and thy timber and thy dust in the midst of the water.

And I will cause the noise of thy songs to cease; and the sound of thy harps shall be no more heard.

And I will make thee like the top of a rock: thou shalt be [a place] to spread nets upon; thou shalt be built no more: for I the LORD have spoken [it], saith the Lord GOD.

Then all the princes of the sea shall come down from their thrones, and lay away their robes, and put off their broidered garments: they shall clothe themselves with trembling; they shall sit upon the ground, and shall tremble at [every] moment, and be astonished at thee.

And they shall take up a lamentation for thee, and say to thee, How art thou destroyed, [that wast] inhabited of seafaring men, the renowned city, which wast strong in the sea, she and her inhabitants, which cause their terror [to be] on all that haunt it!

Now shall the isles tremble in the day of thy fall; yea, the isles that [are] in the sea shall be troubled at thy departure.

For thus saith the Lord GOD; When I shall make thee a desolate city, like the cities that are not inhabited; when I shall bring up the deep upon thee, and great waters shall cover thee;

When I shall bring thee down with them that descend into the pit, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit, that thou be not inhabited; and I shall set glory in the land of the living;

I will make thee a terror, and thou [shalt be] no [more]: though thou be sought for, yet shalt thou never be found again, saith the Lord GOD.

---

What you are doing Ami is clinging to words such as they, and we, and ignoring anything to to with He/Nebuchadnezzar;

Tyrus, and will cause many nations to come up against thee, as the sea causeth his waves to come up

And they shall destroy the walls of Tyrus, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her like the top of a rock.

This is your fall back to saying the Bible was 100% correct, because Alexander The Great, did conquer Tyre, Tyre did fall!

[H O W E V E R]

He/Nebuchadrezzar; Please note where He is mentioned;

For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will bring upon Tyrus Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, a king of kings, from the north, with horses, and with chariots, and with horsemen, and companies, and much people.

He shall slay with the sword thy daughters in the field: and he shall make a fort against thee, and cast a mount against thee, and lift up the buckler against thee.

And he shall set engines of war against thy walls, and with his axes he shall break down thy towers.

By reason of the abundance of his horses their dust shall cover thee: thy walls shall shake at the noise of the horsemen, and of the wheels, and of the chariots, when he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach.

With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword, and thy strong garrisons shall go down to the ground.

-------

Nebuchadrezzar - FAILED COMPLETELY!

He negotiated PEACE!

If you truly choose to ignore that fact...

-Shakes head-

Houston we have got a problem!

I aint got an issue with the "They" being Alexander the Great!

However, contemplate this...

At that time in History, Neb had just conquered Judea, and it looked like he was going to take Trye [Hence the Prophecy]. If he succeed, You would [NEVER] even thought to consider what the "They" meant, you would automatically assume, and rightly so.. that the "They" meant Nebuchadnezzar & Army!

You is just back peddling!

So, at the very least Aim, that section of the Prophecy is completely wrong in relation to Neb!

Rendering the Bible to be a very human and fallible book working under human-subjective-reasoning, that is frequently wrong, and anything but 100% correct!

I don't need to take the position of saying the Bible is 100% wrong to be satisfied,

However, Your Ideology of:

1: God exists.

2: Is never wrong.

3: By the act of (1) and (2) the Bible is never wrong.

Absolutely does require it to be 100% true!

Yet Ive clearly shown, beyond all doubt, that the Bible being 100% true to the last line = FALSE;

I stand firmly by:

Lei_Kuei 2 : Yahweh 0;

Any rationalists left in the world who agree with me?

Hath I slayeth the God of Judea with my mighty deduction? Surely that which is truly a God, could not be defeated by such an unholy fiend like myself

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~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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Ami Anne
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posted September 26, 2012 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I still don't think you have a case as Neb attacked them, but did he make them RUBBLE. You have to go back to the Hebrew and see the exact meanings of words.

With all due respect, this is a dumb example.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 26, 2012 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you want to study the exact Hebrew words, that is fine. If not, find another example, as this one was **** poor

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Lei_Kuei
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posted September 26, 2012 11:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

Ive shown beyond doubt, that lines in the Bible are FALSE, rendering it fallible...

Such puts your Ideology in check,

When he shall enter into thy gates, as men enter into a city wherein is made a breach.

With the hoofs of his horses shall he tread down all thy streets: he shall slay thy people by the sword

NEVER HAPPENED!

Case Closed.

You just haven't allowed yourself to contemplate that fact... yet

Someday you will

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~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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Ami Anne
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posted September 26, 2012 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ned did invade it. The Bible did not say he destroyed it, utterly, which you are claiming is a Biblical error.

This is frankly ridiculous. If anyone wants to talk about something that has merit, I am game. No offense to you personally, Lei, but it is a dumb argument.

I am open to your finding another or anyone else may do so.
Take care, Lei! xx

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Lei_Kuei
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posted September 26, 2012 11:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Farewell my dear, clingeth tight to thy Human Book!

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~*~ Did you know that a circle is round? ~*~ - Tautology
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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Ami Anne
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posted September 26, 2012 11:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lei_Kuei:
Farewell my dear, clingeth tight to thy Human Book!


OK You are a high quality person whom one can talk with and both people can remain respectful of each other. It's all good

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RegardesPlatero
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posted September 27, 2012 06:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for RegardesPlatero     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Please keep it civil and respectful. Thanks!

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Ami Anne
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posted September 27, 2012 09:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We are, RP.
If anyone asks questions, I will be back.I outlined the whole thing but people found it confusing, so I started with Israel becoming a state in a day. We can start there, if you are interested. xx

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Faith
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posted September 27, 2012 10:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My favorite commentary on the Book of Revelation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9IfHDi-2EA

People believe what they want to believe. It's just that sometimes the teacher arrives before the student is willing.

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katatonic
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posted September 27, 2012 03:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
from lei kuei's quote..

". . . when he enters your gates . . ."

". . . The hoofs of his horses will trample . . ."

". . . he will kill your people . . ."

this does not describe a seige but an invasion and destruction. the destruction may not be total (as in turning it to rubble) but then we are not talking damascus, are we?

and the damascus prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. so let's stick with the prediction that nebuchadnezzar did not invade or slay the people of tyre.

as to the antichrist, if he is so definitively described why are people always wondering if so-and-so is he?

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Ami Anne
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posted September 27, 2012 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by katatonic:
from lei kuei's quote..

[b]". . . when he enters your gates . . ."

". . . The hoofs of his horses will trample . . ."

". . . he will kill your people . . ."

this does not describe a seige but an invasion and destruction. the destruction may not be total (as in turning it to rubble) but then we are not talking damascus, are we?

and the damascus prophecy has yet to be fulfilled. so let's stick with the prediction that nebuchadnezzar did not invade or slay the people of tyre.

as to the antichrist, if he is so definitively described why are people always wondering if so-and-so is he? [/B]


This does not say Rubble which is total destruction.

If anyone wants to go to the original Hebrew and look at every single word, he can do it. If not, I am going to move on.

The Anti Christ will be clearly known as he will be the one person in all of Israel's history to sign a peace treaty with her that will keep her safe from all her neighbors. This peace will be 3 and a half years.
This person will be the Anti Christ. His background may be partly Jewish as one Scripture alludes to this. However, this singular event will bring the AC on to the world scene. If you see this, you will see him.

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Ami Anne
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posted September 27, 2012 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I bring out Damascus cuz it is an easy prophecy to see as it has the same name, today, as in Biblical times, which not all places do, so that is easy to see. It has never been rubble before, so there is not Double fufillment which happened with Babylon( Iraq) which made it more complicated.

It is just an easy one to see. ALL will come true but some are a harder study than others.

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PixieJane
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posted September 27, 2012 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For anyone interested this guy examined Revelations and came to realize how much heaven (and God's Wrath) resembled the Borg from Star Trek:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/heaven.htm

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Ami Anne
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posted September 27, 2012 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the days of Noah, people laughed until the flood overcame them *sigh*

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PixieJane
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posted September 27, 2012 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We don't know if Noah even existed, but it's easy to see that people thought they were the "last generation" since the days of St. Paul. If your local library hasn't gotten rid of them you can probably find books saying the End Times would happen before 2000. And one guy showed me a vid of Impe (love that name for a televangelist!) saying if the rapture didn't happen in the 90s then it wasn't happening (though he's still on the air waves predicting the rapture, but hey, I'm sure it pays just as well as it ever did).

And as for Noah and the flood...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIp6fjQCzpY

"Noah's Ark is a problem."

(And IMO, Firefly is so much better than Star Trek!)

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Ami Anne
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posted September 27, 2012 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Every person has a choice, Pixie. That is the whole point of why I offer this. There is the choice to laugh at it, as you are.
Blessings

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