posted May 18, 2010 09:35 AM         

I am giving you some keywords for the symbolism of the planets / asteroids:

Valentine:
IQ called it "true unconditional love"; even though this often is true, I also found instances where it was more "romantic love" with the ability to really charm another person.

Asc:
the physical manifestation of your Self. Your appearance, body, energetic essence.

Sun:
Self, temperament

Eros:
erotic love; creation / creativity; transformation through love, which will create "new life" (could be a creative project or a love affair)

Mercury:
rational mind; communicative skills and style

Psyche:
vulnerability, soulfulness, psychic ability

Union:
union; connection

Moon:
emotional core; woman as a wife or mother; caring and nurturing; receptiveness

MC:
calling; public image, social expression of Self

Venus:
love style; relating style; creative and artistic expression / potential; "the ideal woman as a lover"; "the perception of feminity"

Neptune
dissolving energies; spirituality, compassion, spiritual reality as well as dreams and illusions

Destinn
destiny

Juiter:
Growth, expansion, philosophical attitude in life, optimism

Mars
energy, style of assertion, desire / wanting, "the ideal man as a lover", "the perception of masculinity"

The tropical placements describe the physical manifestations of these energies, which you can observe easily in the surrounding world; the Draconic placements are on a more subtle level, internal, they impact one`s soul.
They are also indicative of past life experiences; at least those past life experiences, that had such a great impact, that their traces stayed in one`s soul (and therefore became a part of the Draconic).

So if you have a Draco planet before you, add something like "soul`s/ internal / past life" to the interpretation.

Conjunction and oppositions just act as direct triggers; the opposition maybe tends a bit to the "friction / tension" side, whereas the conjunction is completely neutral and just acting as "bringing together" the two planets, which are connected through conjunction.

posted May 18, 2010 10:05 AM         

funkastrology is a top site regarding the four LIliths. Marina`s articles on Lilith were an absolute eyeopener for me.

In summary I think it is like this:

asteroid Lilith (1181 on astro.com):
represents the struggle for equality; maybe even sexually charged battles about equality in relationships

Dark Moon Lilith (h58):
the Shadow side; demon; buried and suppressed rage rearing its ugly head, if not channelled wisely

Mean Black Moon Lilith:
the instinctual, primal feminity; powerful sexuality; magic; but in a more stable, fermented form

True Black Moon Lilith, also called oscillating Lilith (h13 on astro.com):
similiar to mean BML, but in a more unpredictable way

http://funkastrology.co.uk/lilith-astrology-triple-moon-goddess/

posted May 18, 2010 12:14 PM         

Seems we are at approximately the same place.

Yet, Uranus and Saturn are not touching my ASC-DESC axis.

posted May 18, 2010 12:27 PM         

But just looking at your Progressed chart... we have a lot of connections going on now. I have been researching about prog to natal aspects and how they work as windows for the start of relationships (any type of relationships)..

posted May 18, 2010 01:40 PM         

Anyway, I saw that iQ was talking about the Astroid "Angel" and, so, I thought I would throw it in my chart and see were it lands. Well, it's exactly conj my NN. (which I thought it was Ironic since we have been talking Drac and I looked at the guy I was interested in...

posted May 18, 2010 01:53 PM         

My Angel is conjunct my NN, too!
And it sits exactly on my ASC.

My Draco Angel of course is conjunct that guy`s tropical ASC and Draco BML (the one that will just not leave my mind, no matter what I do).
My Angel is conjunct his Draco Chiron.
his Angel conjunct my Draco SAturn with 00°02!
his Dr Angel conjuncts my Draco Moon and my tropical ASC and opposes my Dr Mars and Dr Angel.

And I think that means we have a DW of Draco Angel-ASC/DESC.

posted May 18, 2010 02:33 PM         

I didn't look at any of the other connections since it seems like where my Natal NN is, is a hot spot for him and I.

(I just took another stand against another person... I'm 3 for 3 today...LOL)

posted May 18, 2010 03:26 PM         

today you are giving it to them with full hands, aren`t you?
What did they do to upset you that much?

posted May 18, 2010 03:31 PM         

I understand being indecisive but you got to be put into action sometime...

posted May 18, 2010 03:56 PM         

And yes, I read what you wrote on that other thread.

posted May 19, 2010 12:22 AM         

Just for the record I checked me and my ex husbands Dr chart and here are some of the aspects we had.. (maybe it will show marriage)

In synastry DR to DR

My Destinn,Neptune conj his DC,Saturn,and Chiron
My mars conj his Union
Ny Ic/Venus opps his moon/Jupiter
My DC,Pluto,Vertex opps his Juno/Karma

His Dr to my Natal
his Venus,destinn conj my Venus
his mars,angel conj my saturn
his neptune conj my DC
his Dr Asc is in my Sun sign (wide orb)
Also what I found interesting most of his personal planets fall in my natal 4th

My Dr to his Natal
My venus conj his mecury,sun
My Chiron conj his Ceres
my jupiter conj his vertex (4 orbs)
my valentine conj his destinn
my juno conj his union
my saturn conj his venus and psyche

Again this is just for your research

I just looked at conj I didnt pay to much attention the to trines or opps.. Cause I got a headache thinking about him ...LOL

I did notice that he has alot of Pisces and Cancer, and my Eros is in Pisces my venus is in cancer ... I have mix of Scorpio and Sag and Cap...

Oh and just for the record he chased me, I really didnt like him at first.. It took along time for him to grow on me... I really didnt like him at all....

posted May 20, 2010 12:16 AM         

"Maybe there is an exceptional intensity of experience on both levels, on the soul`s and the more physical ones?"

DD, that rings very true...

It would be great to hear of other people with natal = draconic.

posted May 20, 2010 01:21 AM         

quote:

---

On feeling the Draconics (including Transits):

The Draco transits and aspects will be felt INTERNALLY; and it will be the Draco Person who feels them on a deep soullevel; sometimes the other person is not even aware of how much they affect the Draco person, but it depends on the other person`s sensitivity, too.

---

I used to look at it like that, but now I'm thinking it's the Tropical person who FEELS the aspect. Feeling, in the way that we experience it as perception/sensation/conscious awareness, is a function of the Tropical self. We are living on the Tropical level, feeling its contacts. (That last sentence was phrased like an LOLcat. "I'm in your Tropical, feeling your life." lol)

The Draco person feels the aspect internally, but really, really internally. So internally that the experience is in a whole different dimension. I think that dimension is spiritual and lacks a personal self in the sense that we think of one. The Draco person feels their Draco level being touched, so the synastry feels important and fated to them. But unless their Draconic planet hooks into their own tropical, they may not "feel" their specific d. planet in a way that they can consciously perceive.

Example.
With someone who hurt me in a sexual way:

~His d SUN cnj my t CHIRON (0*02!!) and opp my t VENUS/MARS mp (0*)
(Natally I have Chiron = Venus/Mars.)

~His d CHIRON cnj my t VENUS/MARS mp (0*13)
and opp my t CHIRON (0*)

As the tropical person, I very much *felt* my Chiron and Venus/Mars mp. It didn't take much sensitivity on my part to feel my tropical.

~My d SATURN cnj his t NN (1*)

He can absolutely feel this experience impacting his life path in the here and now, from the event forward.

In the Draconic dimension, my Saturn was involved. In the tropical dimension, my Pluto was involved, since my d.Saturn hooks into my tropical through Pluto. (They oppose).

I'll look at more examples. This is the one that made me question the old way I viewed Drac/Trop synastry. Thinking about it, this way makes more sense to me. The Draco is a level that doesn't feel in the human way, since it's something too spiritual to experience contact in so earthly a way.

posted May 20, 2010 01:48 AM         

you`re right.
Actually I am surprised how I could miss that, as I always stress the importance of connections to tropical planets as an "anchor" in our reality.

so it makes completely sense.

posted May 20, 2010 03:12 AM         

Doh! I thought we could finally disagree about astrology.

Here's another chance :

quote:

---

On the other hand it is the other person`s Draco, that triggers our tropical aspects, so it would probably be a very subtle energy.

---

The Tropical is the portal that allows the Draco dimension to be made consciously felt. So I don't think this synastry is subtle in the sense of the Tropical person registering only a whisper of the Draconic person, or the Tropical person feeling their own planet subtly. I think the aspects feel just as real and intense for the Trop person as they do in standard Trop-Trop synastry.

Instead of the intensity, I think what's subtle in an otherworldly sense is the Draco person's motivation for being who they are with the Trop person and their awareness of their own Draco self. They feel their Draco self, but only through the Trop person responding to them (barring their own draco-trop aspects).

The Trop person may not understand how they understand the Draco person as deeply as they do.

posted May 20, 2010 09:56 AM         

"The Tropical is the portal that allows the Draco dimension to be made consciously felt."
Yes, I agree with that.
It`s the tropical that makes us gain consciousness / access to our soul / spirit.
For example:
natally I have Draco Moon exactly conjunct DESC. So it is probably through relationships that I access my deeper seated emotions.
But if some other person for example had tropical Sun on that degree (7 Gemini), I would not only feel him in regard to my DESC, but he also would stimulate my Draco Moon.
But since this Draco Moon is so deeply inside of me, it could be that I do not consciously am aware of what is happening? Is that what you want to say?

So what does it mean for synastric comparisons? That the Draco person feels *something*, but can`t really grasp it? Almost like something that is rumbling underneath?

And from the other perspective:
The tropical person would see / feel my Draco Moon, my inner feelings clearly, maybe even more clearly than I am aware of them myself?

Now, we experience everything through the tropical, it`s kind of our "filter" of what and how we perceive things. So it would make sense to think that whatever touches us evokse a more immediate / direct response in us, when touching the tropical, as it is our "natural" perception mode.

But now the question is, if the Draco person is not even aware of their own unconscious motives (Draco), what reaches the tropical person?
I think it depends on if we believe that

1. a person is triggered by the manifestation of another person`s being, usually their behaviour and how they act, talk, how they communicate themselves with the world, what they show from themselves.

2. people are not only reacting to the outward manifestations of each other, but also by some kind of "energetic pattern", that every person has; not just the conscious energies, but also those things that rest in the subconsciousness.

If we believe the 2nd statement is true, then I think a tropical person would definitely feel a strong response to the Draco person (just as strong as the tropical "glasses" are). It would mean that every person has some kind of "antennas" for another person`s psyche; at least to these parts that aspect their tropical.

"They feel their Draco self, but only through the Trop person responding to them (barring their own draco-trop aspects). "
Let`s say, someone has a strong aspect in Draco`s (as well as in tropical), for example Moon-Pluto-conjunction, but let`s say this Draco conjunction has NO aspects to one`s own tropical, and then someone comes along putting their tropical Sun and ASC on that Draco connection, couldn`t that leave to some sort of "dependancy" for the Draco person?
Like they can only FEEL that part of themselves with the tropical person, and let`s say they really CRAVE for that experience, couldn`t that evoke the feeling of a strong NEED for the other person?

EDIT:

How would you interprete my Draco Pluto and Draco MC being on someone`s tropical Venus?

posted May 20, 2010 11:08 AM         

Her dMercury opps my dVertex 0*

My dSun & dMerc opps her dJupiter both less than a degree

Her Draco to my Natal:

Her dSun conjunct my Natal Moon less than 3 degrees.
Her dMoon trine my nVenus less than 1 degree
Her dMercury conjunct my nUranus and trine my nJupiter less than 1 degree.
Her dVenus conjuncts my nMars 3 degrees and nAsc less than 2 degrees.
Her dMars sextiles my nSun
Her dJupiter conjuncts my Sun
Her dVertex conjunct my Sun less than 1 degree.

Is this woman part of my soul family? (there are more aspects, I just didn't have time to list them)