posted August 11, 2010 12:58 AM            

Rounding Errors

* Birth time rounding errorsIf your birth time is given accurately to one minute (final digits 1...4, 6...9), assume a rounding error of plus/minus 2 minutes.
* If the last digit of your birth time minutes is a 5, assume plus/minus 5 minutes of rounding error.
* If the last digit is a 0, assume a rounding error of plus/minus 10 minutes.
* If the minutes are 15 or 45, assume a rounding error of plus/minus 15 minutes.
* If the minutes are 30, assume a rounding error of plus/minus 30 minutes.
* If the minutes are 0, assume a rounding error of plus/minus 1 hour.
* Add plus/minus 5 minutes of a possibly wrong clock on top of all those rounding errors.
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I was in another forum and I posted a reply about introverted Leo's..
Some one approached me about my chart and said that since my Asc was at 0Aries that maybe my time was wrong on my birth certificate.. What if the doctor rounded off your time of birth..
My birth certificate says I was born at 9:40PM. This person explained to me that since it was in an early degree's I forgot the word (ascesion)humm spelling) that the asc changes every 3 mins..

So I did another chart for myself and when I changed the time from 9:40 to 9:37 my Asc changed to 29Pisces... So the house's are pretty much the same, only the points changed from 0cardinal to 29 mutable. Another reason why I question the time, is because I was a preemie, born a month early. My mom was in labor for 3 days (yeah I was hell even then..) So when I was born did they even look at the clock right away?? My time could be really off....

G... We talked about me being introverted before and you said it was because Makemake was conjunct my Leo Stellium, which alters the Leo.. Could this be another reason??

I have read both and to be honest both fit. shrug....
I think the main difference would be the Cardinal T square verses a Mutable T square in.
I know you can't say if the time is correct or not, Im just wondering if my asc changes would that explain why I am introverted?
Oh I guess it also would change the chart ruler from Mars to Neptune/Jupiter...
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posted August 11, 2010 01:46 AM            

Stop worrying. When you truly think about it, NO ONE can actually be 100% sure of their birth time by someone telling them. The point is - you have no control over actually knowing this except for testing the angles (ASC, IC, DESC and MC) of your chart for events corresponding to Transits, Progressions and Solar Arcs.

In European medical facilities it is the norm for doctors, nurses and assistants to round up or down to the nearest 5 or 10 of a time span. This is not real life for astrology. The best way to confirm your birth time is to have a professional astrologer RECTIFY your chart. I do it everyday, but I no longer do it for free. Lara from this site hired a great astrologer who rectified her chart expertly so her astrologer is another option for you.

Glaucus and IQ are exceptionally skilled astrologers. I don't know if IQ ever mentioned that he does rectification but I know that Glaucus is perfectly capable of testing the angles of a chart but you'd have to ask them how they handle it meaning for free or to charge.

Last but not least, people worrying over their birth times has been the number one NEUROTIC worry and waste of time in all of astrology through out the HISTORY OF THE WORLD! There are bigger things to worry about, your birth time is probably correct and if it's not, a matter of a few minutes isn't going to ruin your life.

posted August 11, 2010 04:48 AM            

My mum remember me having been born at 7.07 a.m. Some years ago I had insight in my birthcertificate and actually the same time was being noted there: 7.07 a.m.

So in my case it is certainly not a rounded time; I do get a little bit suspicious with very smooth times though, but then again there ARE people who have been born exactly at 6 o`clock I guess.

posted August 11, 2010 11:17 AM            

I don't do rectifications. I am even skeptical of them.

I remember getting my chart rectified back in 2005, and he did it with the hypothetical transneptunian objects that are used in Uranian Astrology. Uranian Astrologers are very much into rectifying charts. However, their use of transneptunian objects makes their rectification techniques very questionable in my opinion.

I was born a month early after 23 hour labor.

According to my birth certificate, my Midheaven is in 11'14 Gemini. The Sabian Symbol for it is "The Negro Girl Fights For Independence in the City"

The Midheaven fits me to a T. I am part Black African. It also fits into equal rights and advocacy.

I have a conjunction of Africa in 11'15 Aries and Africano in 12'38 Aries sextile the Midheaven putting more emphasis on my Black African ancestry.

Another thing is that astrologers have done rectifications during times when certain objects haven't been discovered.

Rectifying charts have been done before the TransSaturnian objects were discovered.

Vedic Astrologers rectify charts without them because they don't use those objects in Astrology like most Western Astrologers do. They also use hypothetical points, Gulika and Mandi to use for rectification. There are other hypothetical objects that have been used in Vedic Astrology too.

Transneptunian dwarf planet Pluto has been used in rectifying charts. Now there are 3 other transneptunian dwarf planets and other big transneptunians that have been discovered after the turn of the 21st Century.

I have 2 of them in major aspect to my Midheaven. Haumea in 11'17 Virgo square my Midheaven. It conjuncts my 13'27 Virgo Ascendant,and so I have Haumea Rising. Eris in 12'15 Aries R sextile my Midheaven.

There is also transneptunian dwarf planet candidate Ixion biquintile my Midheaven with 10 minutes of arc. My Ixion is only 5 minutes conjunct my Sun which biquintiles my Midheaven with 5 minutes of arc.

I also have Eris/Node midpoint square Midheaven with 8 minutes of arc. That's from my Eris being sextile the Midheaven and North Lunar Node and my North Node trine the Midheaven.

If astrologers rectified my chart before the 2000's, they wouldn't have done it without knowing that Haumea and Eris are majorly aspecting my Midheaven.

Asteroid Dwarf planet Ceres hasn't been used much by mainstream astrologers because it's an asteroid. Now astronomers have made it Pluto's equal. I can't help think that Ceres should be Pluto's equal in Astrology which would make sense to use Ceres in rectifying charts if you use Pluto to rectify charts.
I have Ceres parallel Midheaven with 8 minutes of arc.

I think that everything happens for a reason. I believe that the certain time written on my birth certificate happened for a reason. The Midheaven placement and its aspects fit me.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted August 11, 2010 11:59 AM            

My favourite method, though, remains working with the Sabians. If you'll look into them, you will find some connections. I am certain of my birthtime because even the house cusps' Sabians have a message that resonates with me.

Another way to get more insight into this is looking at dwads. For instance, if your Asc is 0 Aries, your dwad Asc is also in Aries (because the first 2,5 degrees of any sign have the most characterisitcs of that sign). That would make you 100% Aries Asc. If, however, it is 29 Pisces, your dwad Asc is in Aquarius, so your Asc would be Pisces with an Aqua flavor. http://koti.mbnet.fi/neptunia/dwads.htm#dwads

I hope all of this wasn't too confusing. Don't hesitate to ask more questions if it is.

posted August 11, 2010 12:47 PM            

Not sure if it matters or not, but I do know I was conceived in California. (2 Hour time difference)You can say Los Angeles area

My Moon is at 15LEO

posted August 11, 2010 01:43 PM            

quote:

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If, however, it is 29 Pisces, your dwad Asc is in Aquarius, so your Asc would be Pisces with an Aqua flavor.
===========================================
Wouldnt it be Pisces with an Aries Flavor?

---

Nope.
0 - 2deg 30min Pisces is in Pisces dwad.
2deg 31min - 5deg 0min Pisces is Aries dwad
5deg - 7deg 30min Pisces is Taurus dwad
...
27deg30min-30deg Pisces is Aqua dwad.

posted August 11, 2010 01:49 PM            

Im not sure about the GMT-5 times..

Its Central time in the US..

posted August 11, 2010 02:00 PM            

Your probable time of birth is 21:35:37.
Your prenatal Asc was 15 Aqua, in opposition to your natal Moon.
Your prenatal Moon was 29 Virgo, in opposition to your natal Asc, which is 29deg 09 PISCES.

In the Aquarius dwad.

posted August 11, 2010 02:02 PM            

If you list me the dates of at least 15 important life events, I can test your Ascendant for accuracy using Solar Arcs and Transits?

posted August 11, 2010 02:22 PM            

Winged Leo... Thank you also.. OMG u guys are all soooo sweet...
I can try to come up with 15. It will be out of order as I can think of them..

1. Move to Calif Feb 79 (no date)
2. gave birth 5/12/92
3. married 7/22/00
4. gave birth 4/23/02
5. Started job 4/14/94 (still working for company)
6. offered promomtion Dec 28,2000
7. started new job Jan 3, 2000
8. promoted/ started job feb 16. 2004
9. May 30, 2008.. husband was taken taken away temporaliy..
10. Feb 3, 2009 Husband was permantely taken away.
(I dont want to explain publicy)
11. 7/26/10... Work load changed... more work added to me, a counter part was transfered. my days off were changed. I'm really upset over this.
12. Nov 14 and 15 2009...
Two seperate guys showed in interest in me.. (these are guys that I have known for years..... but never showed any interest... both are very important in my life..

Thats the dates that I can rememeber right now... I will try to come up with a few more...
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added

posted August 11, 2010 03:06 PM            

It's of ultimate importance to add some strong events from CHILDHOOD. Lioness, you seem to start from early adulthood experiences. Some of the strongest life development events occur in our childhood. Please try to remember. Did you have any strong health issues, did one of your parents leave the household in any way through divorce or death, illness, addiction issues, etc. These are incredibly important when testing the chart for rectification.

Do you have brothers or sisters, grandparents? If your grandparents not alive, did they die when you were a child? What did your parents do for their professions? Were your parents military people, thus forcing you to move around a lot as a child? How many schools did you attend? When was art or aesthetics introduced into your life as a child? Were you an athlete? Were you ever abandoned by one or both parents for a short period of time? Did you have a stepparent(s)?

These are just a few of the very important questions from childhood that will help to focus the chart.

And Lioness, if you're interested in my pricing you should email me privately. Good luck.

posted August 11, 2010 03:22 PM            

I am an only child. I never met my father. It was just me and my mom.. My grandfater died 2 years prior to my birth. My grand mother still alive. I moved from Kentucky to Ca in Feb of 79. Just me an my mom.. The rest of my family still lives in Ky, so I dont really any memories of them. I was very lonely as a child and also a latchkey kid.. I went to 3 elementry schools. and 3High Schools.. I was kicked out out high school sometime in 11th grade.. I know it doesnt help... LOL.. (sent to another school)

We did move around alot when I was a kid, but I dont rememeber dates.

posted August 11, 2010 04:32 PM            

I'm not letting you off the hook that easy. I think you should try it. The first thing you want to do is test the time that she was actually given. I have a big hunch that her birth time is correct. Not to insult Lioness or anything, but many of us get so deep into learning astrology that we read every article and decide to believe everything we read. Don't automatically assume that your birth time is wrong just because it is on the hour or the 10 or the 5. Your birth time may be exactly correct.

Another thing that proves that it's best to consult with someone face to face or over the phone is to get clarity as quickly as possible. From Lioness' first response to your questions, she incorrectly lead us to believe that the first time she ever moved was in February 1979 when it was completely untrue. Then to have you try to rectify her chart (which is not an easy task even with all of the CORRECT information) is really not fair to you, the astrologer. Upon asking her again, she revealed that she moved around a lot as a child. That gives us a tremendous amount of information right there that we didn't have the first time we asked her.

Real rectification takes too much time, effort and energy for the client to take it so lightly. Now that we know she moved around a lot as a child, you may want to check to see if she has a slow moving outer planet very close to one of her angels. At some point in her life that slow moving planet will transit that angle several times, it will retrograde over the angle a few times and go direct over the angle several times, thus signaling several geographic relocations. This can also happen when one of those outer planets is tightly square an angle as well.

It was also very important information for us to know that her father was absent from her early home life. It's also important to ask if there were any strong "father figures" in her life. Without even seeing her chart my guess is NO. I guess this because she talks about instability in elementary schools and then being kicked out of high school 3 times. Where is the anchor in her life in those early years? No matter how good or bad a father is, the father is usually the anchor. The future projection of this could be the suggestion of instability in her own marriage or relationship which she already mentioned by telling us that her husband was finally "taken away for good". I don't know what that means, but I would check on her 7th cusp (an angle) at this time and also the planet that rules that angle.

I would also check on the ruler of her 3rd House cusp, the 3rd house is the house of early education and I'd bet that the ruler of that house is stressed or that the planets residing in that house are stressed.

Other important question: Did Mom have relationships while you were living at home? What were the nature of those relationships?

posted August 11, 2010 05:21 PM            

In Feb 79 I moved from Kentucky to Ca..
1. Move to Calif Feb 79 (no date) at the age of 6

I moved around alot in childhood after I was in Ca.. Im not sure about while in Ky.

My mom did have "boyfriends".. Two lived with us (at seperated times) One I didnt like and one I did like.. The one I didnt like was around age 11 and the one I did like was around age 15..
Pluto conjuncts my DSc line
Saturn is in my 3rd house.

posted August 11, 2010 05:51 PM            

With the original birthtime that Lioness gave, her Pluto aspects all her angles

Pluto in 00'15 Libra in 6th
oppose/conjunct Asc/Desc in 00'56 Aries/Libra
square MC/IC in 00'31 Capricorn/Cancer

To me, that configuration alone could indicate the many changes in her environment.

also

Pluto's fellow transneptunian dwarf planet Makemake aspects all her angles too
sesquiquadrate/semisquare Asc/Desc - '01
sesquiquadrate/semisquare MC/IC - '23
(Makemake oppose Asc/MC midpoint)

so Makemake is aspecting the most personal,time-sensitive midpoint in the chart

Her Makemake in 15'55 Leo in 5th
conjunct her Sun in 16'36 Leo in 5th
conjunct her Moon in 15'09 Leo in 5th
conjunct her Mercury in 14'23 Leo R in 5th

She has the strongest Makemake chart that I have ever seen.

any of the big transneptunians aspecting the angles could be transformations,evolutionary intensification involving her environment

I have one of Pluto's fellow transneptunians aspecting my angles

Haumea in 11'17 Virgo in 12th
conjunct/oppose Asc/Desc in 13'27 Virgo/Pisces
square MC/IC in 11'14 Gemini/Sagittarius

I can relate to a lot of what she said including especially my not knowing my biological father. I had stepfather who was a stable but restricting father figure which I believe is indicated by the Sun quincunx Saturn.

------------------
Raymond Andrews,
President,Executive Director of Developmental Neurodiversity Association
Supporting the Neurodiversity Movement

posted August 11, 2010 06:13 PM            

I'm wondering what would be the difference if the Asc changes to 29Pis?

Just wanted to say this is not me, thinking that my time was wrong.. Someone else brought this to my attention, saying my time may be wrong which could explain why I am an introverted Leo.. Especially with so much fire in my chart..

Since Im a truth seeker... now I wanna know either way...

I have spent so much time looking into all my angles, that now I wonder if everything is incorrect...

Geo I will send you an email explaining about my husband... I prefer to do it privately, maybe then you can let Winged know what to look for.... Or IDK Winged do you want me to tell you also, If you want to give your email address...
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Added

The main reason I want to know if my time is correct is because my Asc is at 0Aries, so a one degree change changes my chart ruler, and changes the ruler of all four of my angles.. These are the most crucial points. If my asc was say at 14Aries. It also changes my Cardinal T square to a Mutable T Square. I think that one degree is critical in my case. Especially since its changes within 3 mins of my time given.

posted August 11, 2010 06:39 PM            

Lioness, you didn't include your birth information on this thread so I don't even have your chart to look at. If you can just type out the birthday, year, time and place of birth, that's all I need. No need to post the chart. Also, you don't need to explain your husband and the situation, I'll be able to read what I need to know in the chart. Also, my email address is in my signature at the bottom of some of the posts I've written on here.

Glaucus,

Thanks for letting me know that Pluto closely aspects all of her angles. It certainly makes sense with all of geographic relocations. And I would definitely call you a professional astrologer whether you accept payment or not. Not only are you capable of doing everything that I do, which is being hyper-focused on the basics and psychology, you are taking astrology deep into the future with your study and research into new astronomical and astrological discoveries - beyond where I am even willing to go. Even beyond where many of the "famous" big name veterans are willing to go and you do it with strong clarity and while striving for and achieving accuracy. Your astrological skills floor me, they literally bring me to my knees.