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Author
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Topic: Friendship is more important than Romantic Love
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ueharaa
Knowflake Posts: 784
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted March 07, 2013 12:15 AM
  
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
I do understand where you're coming from.
But why do you feel differently with guys?
I mean... if it was a woman you wouldn't want things to be romantic.. right?
So why is it different?
What if it is a guy who you get along with great and are close to - but who you are not sexually attracted to?
Because I've been in this situation an things had a bitter end for me. I've been best friend with a guy for over ten years. I cared for him and was "emotionnaly" close to him but I was not sexually attracted to him. I could never ever picture us being togetehr in that way.
But I still loved him as a person. To me it wasn't romantic love but well I adored him.
The thing is as years went by, I realized guys (and honeslty most people are like that) just can't love a person without it implying something else, both go hand in hand. Usually if a guy cares and feels emotionnally close to you then chances are rocket high he plain and simply wants to be with you.
I just feel like I can't ask much from a guy friend, I can't ask them to listen to my problems, to support me and such because I know they won't do it since they're not involved with me. I used to do so for guy friends though.
So I felt like I was left with a choice, either distancing myself and simply enjoying guy's company, or being the one who provide the most in the friendship while I feel like they don't consider me as such. I don't know, maybe it's my moon conjucnt my descendant but reciprocity to me is a huge thing in any type of relationship. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 11833
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 12:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by ueharaa:
Because I've been in this situation an things had a bitter end for me. I've been best friend with a guy for over ten years. I cared for him and was "emotionnaly" close to him but I was not sexually attracted to him. I could never ever picture us being togetehr in that way.
But I still loved him as a person. To me it wasn't romantic love but well I adored him.
The thing is as years went by, I realized guys (and honeslty most people are like that) just can't love a person without it implying something else, both go hand in hand. Usually if a guy cares and feels emotionnally close to you then chances are rocket high he plain and simply wants to be with you.
I just feel like I can't ask much from a guy friend, I can't ask them to listen to my problems, to support me and such because I know they won't do it since they're not involved with me. I used to do so for guy friends though.
So I felt like I was left with a choice, either distancing myself and simply enjoying guy's company, or being the one who provide the most in the friendship while I feel like they don't consider me as such. I don't know, maybe it's my moon conjucnt my descendant but reciprocity to me is a huge thing in any type of relationship.
you are right. most guys dont invest alot of time and emotions unless they like the girl in a romantic way IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 6513
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 12:25 AM
quote:
I can't ask them to listen to my problems, to support me and such because I know they won't do it since they're not involved with me.
But that's bad. They should support YOU. My hetero guy friend - I just mentioned (even more so than my gay friend) listens to absolutely everything in my life and gives me advice on everything (He has a Scorpio Moon sextile mine).
And my ex - Libra with Cap Moon.. was also like this with me for about three years after our break-up before he moved overseas and we drifted. Maybe we just attracted the things we have in natal or something.. I don't know.
My Libra ex also has Sun in the 11th.. and my friend has Venus in the 11th. IP: Logged |
ueharaa
Knowflake Posts: 784
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted March 07, 2013 12:25 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
Yeah... most.. I guess.
It is not my thing at all to prioritise in this way.
I care about whoever needs me most at the time...
For example, if I was married I would never put dinner with my husband before - say... visiting a male friend at the hospital after his car crash.
And obviously -- vice versa ^^ if it was my husband who was in the crash.
Well, people who have you as a friend must be very thankful. You sound like an awesome person altogether. I think once people start being in a relationship and get serious, personal friends get "filtered". They are those who would become friend with your partner and eventually their family becomes friend with your own. And there are those who somehow remains on the side. It's often easier for a couple with or without kids to keep their friends that are in a relationship than keep those who are single.
Ths has nothing to do with the initial subject but in the situation you described, I'm sure people would prioritise that way. IP: Logged |
12muddy
Knowflake Posts: 2526
From:
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted March 07, 2013 12:28 AM
cap sun n venusThis is a tough one. To me, both are important. Now that I'm married I have to devote more time for my own little family, but it doesn't mean that I ignore my friends completely. They still can count on me when they need me. We just don't hang out as frequently as we did. I think the partner's attitude is important too. Luckily, mine is very understanding. I am able to balance between friends and love, thanks to him. But in extreme situations where I could only choose between my friends and my other half, then yeah I'd choose my other half. So yeah, at the end of the day, love is still a bit more important than friendships.
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Odette
Moderator Posts: 6513
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 12:30 AM
OMG lol
Now I'm embarrassed. Well thank you for saying that haha
Although maybe my husband would hate me for it LoL quote:
t's often easier for a couple with or without kids to keep their friends that are in a relationship than keep those who are single.
I've heard so many stories along these lines. I couldn't imagine doing that, because I really don't care what anyone has to say about it - if I have a connection with someone.. and we've been friends for ages.. then they are a part of my life.
If my family or husband has an issue with them - good luck with that! LoL IP: Logged |
ail221
Moderator Posts: 6648
From: Hanging Gardens of Babylon
Registered: Feb 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 12:31 AM
I can't see myself being close to someone who doesn't express any sort of empathy or compassion towards one another in bad, stressful or otherwise difficult situations male or female. Romantic or sexual feelings shouldn't be qualified between two people in order to feel empathy or compassion. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91
Moderator Posts: 11833
From: Wankety Wankerson
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 12:35 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
OMG lol
Now I'm embarrassed. Well thank you for saying that haha
Although maybe my husband would hate me for it LoL I've heard so many stories along these lines. I couldn't imagine doing that, because I really don't care what anyone has to say about it - if I have a connection with someone.. and we've been friends for ages.. then they are a part of my life.
If my family or husband has an issue with them - good luck with that! LoL
no i dont hate you for it, but you better not cheat on me, my moon opposite pluto is watching.
IP: Logged |
ueharaa
Knowflake Posts: 784
From:
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted March 07, 2013 12:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
But that's bad. They should support YOU. My hetero guy friend - I just mentioned (even more so than my gay friend) listens to absolutely everything in my life and gives me advice on everything (He has a Scorpio Moon sextile mine).
And my ex - Libra with Cap Moon.. was also like this with me for about three years after our break-up before he moved overseas and we drifted. Maybe we just attracted the things we have in natal or something.. I don't know.
My Libra ex also has Sun in the 11th.. and my friend has Venus in the 11th.
Like I said, I don't blame them. I understand. Emotional connection is a huge part of romantic relationship. Trusting someone with how you feel, listening to the advice thye give and beign there for each other are the things couple do for each other. And in the long haul it is all that matters. But you're right maybe, people with a strong 11th house emphasis are more prone to this than any other. They're after all friendship oriented.
Also social conditionningand education while growing up may also play a part in people who don't view relationship and the way we go about forming them as it is described in media. IP: Logged |
Pisces-Sweety
Knowflake Posts: 789
From: unknown
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 12:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
Agree or Disagree?
Please explain why, and post your Venus - sign/house/aspects.. (and anything else you think is relevant)
:edit: when I say "friendship" I am definitely not referring to people of the same sex as you, only.
This is not a "same sex" vs "opposite sex" question.
umm.. I wouldn't go as far as this. I think both are equally important. We all need someone to love.. If not now, later in life. Friends just like relationships also come and go. My Venus is in Aquarius
IP: Logged |
Jessica2407
Moderator Posts: 5151
From: Saturn
Registered: Sep 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 01:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
Agree or Disagree? Please explain why, and post your Venus - sign/house/aspects.. (and anything else you think is relevant) Thank you  :edit: when I say "friendship" I am definitely not referring to people of the same sex as you, only.
This is not a "same sex" vs "opposite sex" question.
Nope.Romantic love is more important/significant for me. Venus in leo H7, sextile pluto,conjunct mercury exact,conjunct saturn,inconjunct mars,trine neptune,sq uranus. neptune in 11H sag. IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 7407
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted March 07, 2013 03:06 AM
Definitely friendship. And it's very difficult for me to be attracted to someone who isn't a friend already. Venus in 3H Libra. Btw, I'm very surprised by many of the comments here saying how important friendship is, even putting it above relationships (though I suspect many are ACTUALLY saying they have to click with someone personally rather than just "lust" which wasn't how I understood the question, so maybe I misunderstood one way or the other), but if it's so common then why are songs about friendship so rare (not counting where a lover is also a "best friend") while songs about love and crushes (and just plain old lust) a dime a dozen?  I burned a CD for my BFF of friendship songs and I had to restrict myself mostly to KIDS songs because it was so hard to find them for grownups, as if adults didn't value friendships anymore.  IP: Logged |
Swift Freeze
Moderator Posts: 720
From: Dreams
Registered: Nov 2009
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posted March 07, 2013 03:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Odette, I am just going to be completely honest with ya,my opinion is that women who are in relationships cant be true friends to a guy in most cases. the reason being that most women prioritize their romantic relationships and obsess about their boyfriends while completely ignoring their guy friends. most of the time they only think of their guy friend when things are going bad with their boyfriends. so they think "hmm, he is a guy, maybe he can give me advice." so they begin blowing up the guy friends phone until they patch things up with the boyfriend and then they get quiet all of a sudden. so when a guy like me heres a woman say"lets be friends or i only see you as a friend." we think"oh *** ! she wants me to be her relationship therapist." but if a girl is actually a friend and doesnt make herself a stranger we dont have a problem.
Well avoided the whole issue. Anyway, it works both ways. And to give a perspective, all of my friends that have girlfriends, I don't really see them anymore. Genuinely if I was to invite them to go do something, the majority would say, Oh i'm sorry I'm spending time with <insert GFs name here>, and that is okay, I totally understand that. I know it definitely works both ways, because I have several female friends who do the same thing. Sometimes both Men and Women laugh about how they use it as an excuse to get out of things as well. Again I can completely understand this. As far as my experience goes, when it comes to committed relationships of a long term nature. It is men who seem to suffer in the friendship area. They may have a core group of friends they see every once in a while. It completely depends on the individuals involved as to whether they keep in touch and see each other regularly. However, I feel that Women keep in touch with their friends better, and spend more time with them also. When it comes to friendship Vs Romantic Love. It depends, how long will they both last? If you find the right person for a long term commitment, then romantic love is more important to me. There are things you share in romantic love, that you will never share with your friends, there is an emotional closeness, and acceptance of all that you are, on a level that your friends will never share. I'm not sure why this is. Even if you shared these things with friends, it is highly likely, it would only be one friend. Maybe it is the intensity and fear of being seen as unacceptable if you completely opened up to too many people. Obviously being emotionally close with someone, you are very vulnerable, and we all tend to take good care about making ourselves too vulnerable.
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
But that's bad. They should support YOU. My hetero guy friend - I just mentioned (even more so than my gay friend) listens to absolutely everything in my life and gives me advice on everything (He has a Scorpio Moon sextile mine).
And my ex - Libra with Cap Moon.. was also like this with me for about three years after our break-up before he moved overseas and we drifted.
Tell me if you please Odette, how would you feel if you started to date a new beau and you liked him enough that you were in a relationship, and at some point you found out that he is still emotionally close with his ex-girlfriend and talks to her pretty consistently, listening to her problems, and giving her advice and support. I know I would find that very tough. If I was going to emotionally invest myself in my partner, I would find it difficult to see them talking with and emotionally investing themselves on quite a deep level with an ex-partner. So I have Venus & Pluto in Scorpio, maybe that colours things a little. However, Romantic love is generally something we only share with one person at a time. Friendship is important, but I want something more. So I will choose Romantic Love. - Chris ------------------
Learn lots. Don't judge. Laugh for no reason. Be nice. Seek Happiness. Follow your dreams. IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 6513
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 04:32 AM
quote:
I know I would find that very tough.
I honestly wouldn't. I would only be in a relationship with that man if I trusted him and if I felt we had something.
If I had reasons to distrust him ^ I wouldn't bother.
The fact that he is in touch with his ex and talking to her about her problems would be perfectly ok from my perspective.
But if he *lied* to me to hide that he is talking to her.. and I would later find out as you put it - I would wonder why in the world he'd lie to me. The lying would upset me.
But if he was open about it - I wouldn't care. IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 6513
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 04:42 AM
Personally... I think that when you feel bad or jealous about someone's behaviour.. it is not so much the things they are doing (like being in touch with their ex) - but EVERYTHING they are not doing enough of, daily - to make you feel appreciated and loved. Because if you felt like he really loved you, you wouldn't be jealous.This has been my experience anyway ^ I've only felt jealous in -crappy- relationships.. But I now wouldn't even get involved in such a relationship at all. If there is no trust - no thanks. IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 6513
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 04:42 AM
quote:
no i dont hate you for it, but you better not cheat on me, my moon opposite pluto is watching.
tee hee ok hubby!! LoL IP: Logged |
PixieJane
Moderator Posts: 7407
From: CA
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted March 07, 2013 04:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Swift Freeze:
Tell me if you please Odette, how would you feel if you started to date a new beau and you liked him enough that you were in a relationship, and at some point you found out that he is still emotionally close with his ex-girlfriend and talks to her pretty consistently, listening to her problems, and giving her advice and support. I know I would find that very tough. If I was going to emotionally invest myself in my partner, I would find it difficult to see them talking with and emotionally investing themselves on quite a deep level with an ex-partner. So I have Venus & Pluto in Scorpio, maybe that colours things a little. However, Romantic love is generally something we only share with one person at a time.Friendship is important, but I want something more. So I will choose Romantic Love. - Chris
I'm curious, WHY is friendship important to you if one can't be emotionally invested in it at a deep level? (Or are you just saying "not with your ex"?) And btw, I wouldn't find it tough either, because if they wanted to be something other than friends then they still would be. I'd see his being available for her like that as a noble, mature thing that shows he can leave someone while still showing love rather than hate & bitterness, and if he's completely open about it then I trust him (if I didn't for some reason then we wouldn't be together in the first place). I know some do have a problem with it (and I think Venus Scorpio would) but not all do. IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 6513
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 04:56 AM
quote:
shows he can leave someone while still showing love rather than hate & bitterness, and if he's completely open about it then I trust him
 That's a good point.
It would put me off more if he hated his ex gf... mainly if he seemed to have no real reason to hate her, just being resentful etc. IP: Logged |
its_aqua
Knowflake Posts: 836
From: Mars
Registered: Nov 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 04:56 AM
I love and value my friends deeply. I always had trouble with my family, so I think of my friends as my true family.I consider romantic relationships and friendship, two different things. But I never forget my friends when I have a boyfriend and if he says something bad about my friends then I fight for them. I have Venus in Aquarius, 9th house, exact square with Pluto in Scorpio, sextile my Moon in Aries. IP: Logged |
Odette
Moderator Posts: 6513
From:
Registered: May 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 04:57 AM
quote:
I never forget my friends when I have a boyfriend and if he says something bad about my friends then I fight for them.
I'm the same! IP: Logged |
Doux Rêve
Moderator Posts: 9655
From:
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted March 07, 2013 04:58 AM
I agree with ueharaa.Romantic love and friendship are both important but if I had to choose.. hmm well I couldn't really choose lol. I need both but romantic love is higher on the priority list. Simply because it gives things that a friendship cannot, like physical love/affection, and the feeling of being "in love". I definitely need romantic love more than friendship, though..
Venus Libra conj Jupiter (dsc ruler)
Scorp stellium
Saturn in 11th
IP: Logged |
Jessica2407
Moderator Posts: 5151
From: Saturn
Registered: Sep 2012
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posted March 07, 2013 05:08 AM
^^ you don't have to choose one over the other you know 
Friendships are important, but they come and go. If someone says something mean about a good friend of mine that would definitely put me off the person because he/she could say mean things about me once my back is turned. I don't think I would feel the need to 'defend' my friend so to speak. I would probably resort to a biting sarcastic reply.
IP: Logged |
rhia
Knowflake Posts: 63
From:
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted March 07, 2013 05:20 AM
^ I agree with this. Romantic love for me comes integrated with a desire for deep friendship, and the two cannot be separated. The question to me would be romantic love plus friendship vs friendship alone... no contest. I don't mean that I'd neglect/ drop my friends in favour of a partner, but the partner would always have that hold over me because they offer the 'something extra' that no-one else could. I'm not into casual relationships though, so if I was someone for whom romantic love was a crush or fling, then friends would win every time. Venus in Scorpio conjunct Pluto, Mercury, MC, quindecile NN and sextile neptune, trine moon & Jupiter. 10th or 11th house depending on system. IP: Logged |
meissieri
Knowflake Posts: 1418
From: Neptune with Faith, Bella, Muddy and Doux. Commuting between that and Chiron.
Registered: Feb 2013
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posted March 07, 2013 05:27 AM
Choosing friends over a lover/other way around? Wow, that'd be hard! I'd probably try all I can not to have to make that choice. Can't I just not do it?  I'd hate to have a boyfriend who's rude to my friends, though. Friendship - or at least knowing each other pretty well - is so important to me. I can fall for strangers or people I just met, but unless I get to know them, my crush fades just as quickly (and I'm fine with being just friends or acquaintances). For it to be long-lasting, there has to be more. I want to be able to talk to them, trust them, and of course the other way around. Someone who's comfortable with me! Venus in Virgo
trine Moon
square Uranus
square Jupiter
semi-square Pluto
conjunct Juno
quintile Chiron
quincunx North Node
Ruler of the 7th in the 11th house (Mars), with my Sun there as well. I've had the relationship advice thing as well, they do want a female's point of view on things. A lot. IP: Logged |
peregrine
unregistered
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posted March 07, 2013 07:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by meissieri:
I'd hate to have a boyfriend who's rude to my friends, though.
true. i dislike women swayed by her friends but i have gotten partners this way as well. just that in the long run you see it and it's disgusting how they don't have a mind of their own. IP: Logged |
Lindaland
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