posted June 14, 2013 02:21 PM            

Trying to deconstruct your chart makes sense if you are trying to isolate certain feelings or behaviour, so I get that. But to say that one part of a person's chart is more important than another doesn't make any sense to me.

Think of it like this - you have body, mind and spirit/feelings. They all function together, at all times and although you might be able to separate them to isolate certain behaviours or feelings, you cannot say that your body is more important than your mind. They work together.

You could say that you are ill and this makes your body hurt but having a sick body will, at some point, also affect your emotional self - your mood, your feelings, etc. It might also affect your mind - your attitude, perspective, etc. This is because they are all connected.

When you place too much importance on your body and neglect your mind or feelings, those neglected aspects suffer which will eventually cause the body to suffer.

I would agree that we might each identify more strongly with either the Sun, Moon or ASC but I would also argue that not identifying with those other parts of yourself might simply be an act of disowning those aspects of your character or at the very least downplaying them. Or maybe, as an example, you find that you can more easily identify with the ASC earlier in life and then embrace your Moon qualities as you age.

Whatever the case, I think that all three are equally important though a different weight might be given to the influence they have over you throughout the different stages of your life. If you remove just one of them from a chart, you lose a vital part of reading and understanding that chart.

posted June 14, 2013 02:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Actually the Sun sais: Who am I?
Period. Who am I when you strip away everything external.

The ASC sais: Who am I in relation to my environment?
(what shapes our reactions to it? What gets our attention? How do we express our core "Who am I" externally? Who am I when I am put into a physical existence?)

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This is a good way to think of it.

I think the ASC has more filter and fluff thrown in....who are you in a room full of people? Sun is more unfiltered, raw - who are you when you're in the shower alone?

I have so many people say "oh, I just KNEW you were an aquarius, i can tell!" or my closest friends who will read the Linda Goodman description of an Aquarius woman and say "Wow, this is your perfectly!" - not that many people would say that I'm aries or fire-y. Even my moon comes across more prominent in my personality.

posted June 14, 2013 03:48 PM              

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Originally posted by RunAroundScreaming:
I did say the asc was how you approach the world. That is the same thing you're saying. I don't think there's anything wrong with calling it a mask. It is your outer shell, and your defense against the world. It's your mask.

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posted June 14, 2013 03:50 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Sorcha:
Just stopping by and thought I would post.

Trying to deconstruct your chart makes sense if you are trying to isolate certain feelings or behaviour, so I get that. But to say that one part of a person's chart is more important than another doesn't make any sense to me.

Think of it like this - you have body, mind and spirit/feelings. They all function together, at all times and although you might be able to separate them to isolate certain behaviours or feelings, you cannot say that your body is more important than your mind. They work together.

You could say that you are ill and this makes your body hurt but having a sick body will, at some point, also affect your emotional self - your mood, your feelings, etc. It might also affect your mind - your attitude, perspective, etc. This is because they are all connected.

When you place too much importance on your body and neglect your mind or feelings, those neglected aspects suffer which will eventually cause the body to suffer.

I would agree that we might each identify more strongly with either the Sun, Moon or ASC but I would also argue that not identifying with those other parts of yourself might simply be an act of disowning those aspects of your character or at the very least downplaying them. Or maybe, as an example, you find that you can more easily identify with the ASC earlier in life and then embrace your Moon qualities as you age.

Whatever the case, I think that all three are equally important though a different weight might be given to the influence they have over you throughout the different stages of your life. If you remove just one of them from a chart, you lose a vital part of reading and understanding that chart.

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posted June 14, 2013 03:52 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by bluegreyeyes:
This is a good way to think of it.

I think the ASC has more filter and fluff thrown in....who are you in a room full of people? Sun is more unfiltered, raw - who are you when you're in the shower alone?

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Yes, that is how I meant it.
But even when you are in a room full of people, you are still you. It`s not a mask in the sense that it is just something you cover your face with,t hat has nothing to do with you.

posted June 14, 2013 05:38 PM            

okay here is the final decision!!!! your sun and ASC is a blend!!!! there, there equal lol

posted June 14, 2013 06:33 PM            

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Originally posted by foxxyxo:
yes jessica i agree with you definately

okay here is the final decision!!!! your sun and ASC is a blend!!!! there, there equal lol

id have to disagree eith the ASC only being a mask, i defintely feel my ASC, its what makes me act and initiate things, i have aries asc so i feel fiery and impatient naturally, i definately dont "fake" this

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Ascendant is much, much more than a mask and I even wonder if it is really that? It covers the cusp of house one, house of Aries the sign of self which rules this house traditionally. This is why I think it is the most important part of the chart. Furthermore, sun is always exalted in house one no matter what is on the cusp so it has a special relationship with the ascendant no matter what sign the sun is in.

posted June 14, 2013 06:44 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sorcha:
Just stopping by and thought I would post.

Trying to deconstruct your chart makes sense if you are trying to isolate certain feelings or behaviour, so I get that. But to say that one part of a person's chart is more important than another doesn't make any sense to me.

Think of it like this - you have body, mind and spirit/feelings. They all function together, at all times and although you might be able to separate them to isolate certain behaviours or feelings, you cannot say that your body is more important than your mind. They work together.

You could say that you are ill and this makes your body hurt but having a sick body will, at some point, also affect your emotional self - your mood, your feelings, etc. It might also affect your mind - your attitude, perspective, etc. This is because they are all connected.

When you place too much importance on your body and neglect your mind or feelings, those neglected aspects suffer which will eventually cause the body to suffer.

I would agree that we might each identify more strongly with either the Sun, Moon or ASC but I would also argue that not identifying with those other parts of yourself might simply be an act of disowning those aspects of your character or at the very least downplaying them. Or maybe, as an example, you find that you can more easily identify with the ASC earlier in life and then embrace your Moon qualities as you age.

Whatever the case, I think that all three are equally important though a different weight might be given to the influence they have over you throughout the different stages of your life. If you remove just one of them from a chart, you lose a vital part of reading and understanding that chart.

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When you place too much importance on your body and neglect your mind or feelings, those neglected aspects suffer which will eventually cause the body to suffer"

This would kinda make sense to me because I have Mars on my Ascendant (Virgo) and am VERY fiery and sporty to the point where I neglect myself only to achieve physical "gains". This is just this year starting to backfire and I am physically AND emotionally drained. Also, I have a Stellium incl Sun in 11H and that has made me put too much emphasis on my friends and that has me drained as well. I am currently in the midst of restructuring myself a little bit..which coincidentally happens somewhat naturally with tPluto conj my nMoon, square my nPluto and opposite that Stellium in 11H.

posted June 14, 2013 06:50 PM              

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Originally posted by Pisces-Sweety:
I wouldn't know. I'm a pisces sin with a pisces rising.

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posted June 14, 2013 07:00 PM            

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Originally posted by charlie:
This is so sad. Virgo is my chart ruler and Mercury is my highest ranking planet and also most afflicted. Also have a pAsc in Virgo plus a Stellium (incl Merc) in Virgo. I am probably more Virgo than most Virgo Suns or Moons....so sad...*cries*

My Asc is also trine and/or conj and/or sextile Moon, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, Jupiter, Uranus, Ceres, Chiron.

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Every time I see a post from you saying that you don't like your virgo placements, I just want to smother you with virgo hugs. muhahahaha.

quote:

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Originally posted by Sorcha:
Just stopping by and thought I would post.

Trying to deconstruct your chart makes sense if you are trying to isolate certain feelings or behaviour, so I get that. But to say that one part of a person's chart is more important than another doesn't make any sense to me.

Think of it like this - you have body, mind and spirit/feelings. They all function together, at all times and although you might be able to separate them to isolate certain behaviours or feelings, you cannot say that your body is more important than your mind. They work together.

You could say that you are ill and this makes your body hurt but having a sick body will, at some point, also affect your emotional self - your mood, your feelings, etc. It might also affect your mind - your attitude, perspective, etc. This is because they are all connected.

When you place too much importance on your body and neglect your mind or feelings, those neglected aspects suffer which will eventually cause the body to suffer.

I would agree that we might each identify more strongly with either the Sun, Moon or ASC but I would also argue that not identifying with those other parts of yourself might simply be an act of disowning those aspects of your character or at the very least downplaying them. Or maybe, as an example, you find that you can more easily identify with the ASC earlier in life and then embrace your Moon qualities as you age.

Whatever the case, I think that all three are equally important though a different weight might be given to the influence they have over you throughout the different stages of your life. If you remove just one of them from a chart, you lose a vital part of reading and understanding that chart.

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Very nicely said and summed up.

Someone mentioned that they think sun trumps moon and rising and put a whole bunch of examples (I have no opinion on this yet, I'm a noob). And it kinda got me thinking, what happens when people often guess a sign that's not your sun, moon or asc? I get pegged as a libra a lot and idk if I should just think everyone is wacky or something may be going on in my chart. I literally got into a semi-argument with a guy in the store who was asking questions in line and kept telling me "you cant be a virgo, you have to be a libra" (first time it happened. he thought i was lying ). Personally, I think my face looks cancerian (and thats it) and I act pretty mercurial but third party perspective sometimes disagrees *shrugs*.

posted June 14, 2013 07:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by themischievousone:
Very nicely said and summed up.

Someone mentioned that they think sun trumps moon and rising and put a whole bunch of examples (I have no opinion on this yet, I'm a noob). And it kinda got me thinking, what happens when people often guess a sign that's not your sun, moon or asc? I get pegged as a libra a lot and idk if I should just think everyone is wacky or something may be going on in my chart. I literally got into a semi-argument with a guy in the store who was asking questions in line and kept telling me "you cant be a virgo, you have to be a libra" (first time it happened. he thought i was lying ). Personally, I think my face looks cancerian (and thats it) and I act pretty mercurial but third party perspective sometimes disagrees *shrugs*.

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Be nice.....

posted June 14, 2013 07:39 PM            

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Originally posted by Kerosene:
I'm in the same boat -_-..

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That would make you a double and it just means the sun is more of a focal point in your chart because it is either in house one or near the ascending degree in twelve and the ascending degree comes closest to "self" in the natal chart because this is traditionally the beginning of the sign Aries, sign of self and ruler of house one.

posted June 15, 2013 12:38 AM            

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
I can see why some people think the sun is the most important thing but what about the way the ascendant sets the entire chart by determining what sign and degree is on the eastern horizon at birth? It just seems like it is the most important thing because it determines where everything in the chart will go, including sun, moon, planets. So, I can see why someone would say it "is" what you are, because it determines what rules each house and these are all you.

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posted June 15, 2013 01:19 AM            

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Originally posted by Jkitty:

However, keep in mind that it is the position of the SUN that determines what degree and sign will be "rising"! Mid-heaven is exactly that. If you're born at sunrise, your sun will be conjunct your ascendent, at sunset it will be conjunct your descendent. I think this is why the SUN is the most important; because without it, you couldn't determine a "rising" sign! The SUN determines EVERYTHING, including what the ascendent will be.

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Sun does not determine the generational planets, does it??

And I definitely don't think Sun is the most important in the chart. The planet that is dominant in the chart would be very important. The person is supposed to learn lot of lessons regarding that planet.

I have a highly aspected ascendant and chart ruler so I can identify more with my ascendant than sun and moon. My sun and moon are also in 4th and 8th. People rarely see my moon in me and a 4th house Sun does not shine much. So what people see in me mostly is my ascendant and planets in my first house. If a planet conjuncts the ascendant, people see it in you along with your ascendant. You can't dismiss that as a mask.

posted June 15, 2013 02:10 AM            

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
^^^ The ascendant is determined using exact time of birth and longitude/latitude. Without the time you wouldn't have the ascendant. It just happens the sun moves across the sky throughout the day but at night you can't even see it. This is why you must have an actual time, not just the position of the sun in the sky.

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Time is calculated based on the movement of the earth in relation to the sun. At midnight the Sun would be on the IC. Just because you can't SEE the Sun during the night hours doesn't mean that it isn't used to calculate time. Longitude/latitude are also based on relationship of Sun to the earth. The tropic of Cancer (23 degrees North of the equator) is the northernmost point at which the Sun can appear directly overhead in the Northern hemisphere (during the summer solstice) and the Tropic of Capricorn (23 degrees South of the equator) is the southernmost point at which the Sun can appear directly overhead in the Southern hemisphere (during the winter solstice). Longitude correlates with time zones, also based on the apparent movement of the Sun, whether visible in the sky to an observer at a particular point of the earth or not.

posted June 15, 2013 02:19 AM            

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Originally posted by anonymidarkness:
Sun does not determine the generational planets, does it??

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Since the position of the Sun in relation to the earth determines the ascendent and the ascendent determines which houses the generational planets inhabit, then YES the Sun could be said to determine, not the sign, but the house. To have planets aspecting your ascendent, you have to be able to determine the ascendent in the first place.

posted June 15, 2013 02:50 AM            

Maybe it's an ego thing? Prominent suns have more a sense of ego so the person appears more important since, sometimes, big egos convince others.

posted June 15, 2013 04:18 AM            

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Originally posted by foxxyxo:
still with what everybody said i still think ASC is most important....not sun...ASC determines where your sun goes. so if ur cappy sun but ur sun falls in 5th house
its not going to act very cappy

come on people just give up, ASC is what your are!!!!!!! my aries rising mars sagittarius explains exactly why ive lived theough what ive lived and what kind of person ive become

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I don't think Sun is very influential in every chart but Sun's position does determine your ascendant and only then ascendant determines the position of the sun in your chart otherwise we would have had same time for all the ascendants throughout the year.

posted June 15, 2013 04:44 AM            

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Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme:
I see your point, Jkitty, it still doesn't convince me the sun has the same importance in every chart. In some charts I agree, it is very important because of where it is placed by sign or house, conjunctions it makes, other strong aspects, all hint at the sun being a focal point in that particular one but not every chart is like that.

Maybe it's an ego thing? Prominent suns have more a sense of ego so the person appears more important since, sometimes, big egos convince others.

There is nothing in my chart that convinces me the sun is that important. No conjunctions, it isn't dignified by house or sign, no oppositions. It is in a Succedent house, conjuncts the cusp of a Cadent one. It has one trine to Saturn. A Trine is considered to be pretty weak compared to conjunctions and oppositions. So, I just can't see this sun having the same importance in my life as that of someone like Jessica with a Leo sun involved in many strong aspects. Her sun is the focal point. Mine is not. How can you even compare the two?

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So do I have a big ego?

I scooted over to my chart again. Gosh my sun is on fire.inconjunct moon exact,conjunct mercury,sq uranus 1 degree,chiron exact,sextile Jupiter,trine neptune,conjunct saturn,conjunct ceres & psyche & Atlantis exact,trine Angel,opp ASC,sq MC! I have two perfect hosts in my chart that goes around shaking hands with everybody that's my Sun and my chart ruler Saturn.

I don't believe the ASC is ONLY a ''Mask''. For me it's our front door. The door we have to open to get into the house.If we have the wrong code to the alarm we don't get in. Once we are in,we get acquainted to the internal decor that represents the core self of the house, and then gradually we get to now how warm and comfortable this lovely home is.The three rising sign,Sun and Moon ( The Trinity) works together to make up the whole personality of the person. The rising sign determine how the rest of the chart is laid depending on each karma and dharma. The planet that it aspect the most represents a focal point to the person. So each chart is unique,our blue print so to speak,that goes back in time to pinpoint where we come from and to where the soul has to evolve.