posted July 31, 2015 01:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sven555:
I made it a double vodka and cranberry, just for you!

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posted July 31, 2015 01:58 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
I love you LeeLoo!! Even if disagree at times I still think your amazing!
I know your heart is huge and I totally see how your anger was incited due to what appeared to be going on, how she was being hurt. I see how you reacting was because you feel so much and want to help.
But toning it down would probably help the people that don't know you as well, it will give them the chance to see your big heart and deep care and concern first, before they see the roar! Lol

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Thank you, Gabby, this is so sweet! I love you too! I know you are right and that I will be better with what you say, I will try to learn the lesson you give me here. You know, I have told you before and saying it now once again, you are a model to me on how you can advise people and yet be very compassionate and tolerant at the same time

posted July 31, 2015 02:07 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Thank you, Gabby, this is so sweet! I love you too! I know you are right and that I will be better with what you say, I will try to learn the lesson you give me here. You know, I have told you before and saying it now once again, you are a model to me on how you can advise people and yet be very compassionate and tolerant at the same time

Thank you, Confused-Libra for your words I too am sorry if I offended you.

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Thank you so much LeeLoo!
I think it's our synastry that allows us to learn so much from each other, Sun/Moon conjunct in my 12th/your 8th that's a lot of subconscious understanding between us!

posted July 31, 2015 02:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Sorry, but I have to say something here, for the sake of those reading this thread at some point, especially very young people.

Calling a guy and offering yourself as desert after dinner is not an act of courage and mastery in relationships. What he thought was: she's pretty desperate and/or crazy about me, I told her I am busy this period and tonight having dinner with my parents, yet she is insisting I come over, she wants me pretty badly. This kind of thought is not helpful for successful relationships.

In this particular case, the guy thinks the girl is at his disposal, any time he feels like it. He already knows she is crazy about him.

So I find this little hippie party here with zen quotes irresponsible.

Things are very simple in relationships, actually: Men are territorial and competitive. When a man wants a woman, he will make everything possible to secure her for himself, to make her his and remove the competition.

when he is not doing that, he is not that into you, you are just a temporary distraction in his mind

if he comes and goes, he is not that into you, you are just a temporary distraction in his mind

if he accepts a FWB relationship, he is not that into you, you are just a temporary distraction in his mind

also, conversations about the relationship and sharing feelings do NOT make a man want a woman

their process of deciding if and how they want you is quite quick, after knowing the person a little bit, sometimes the fixed idea is there from the beginning, a quick evaluation. it's mostly an instinctive process men have developed over millions of years as an adaptation for them needing to choose and go after a mate and then secure them and quick reflexes were/are needed for that.

this process is also rather compartimentalized, at least much more with men than with women, and for a large part of men, not all, but many of them: this one is gf material, this one is fwb material, this one is ONS material, this one is friend material etc. As I said, it's not a result of cynicism, it is a million of years adaptative useful mechanism.

Based on how they behave with you (not what people answer when you ask them or the amount of little heart emoticons they send you on facebook, that's booty grooming) you can see the category you are in.

It's very simple to determine which man is into you (and no amount of conversations about feelings replaces that), because he does what Odette and Sunnya and Solar Leo Queen and Ail and Florence and Soujiro and Belage and Teasel and Theunknown and Sven (and sorry if I am forgetting anyone) described: he CARES about you every day and he is trying to make you his.

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I am not sharing an opinion on the OP.

Relationships are a deep interest of mine, in a psychological sense. I just wanted to say it was very refreshing to read this post. Gender differences, no matter how small or relative they may be, are really in force at the crossroads of commitment.

That is when I have seen all the behaviours that are regarded as undesirable in men and women, right at that point of potential.

Also, the post about fear was great to read, because I believe it is fear that strikes right at this point of "will we/won't we".

Anyway, great reading Leeloo and Hypatia, really resonated with what I have found through experience/study.

OP, I have experienced a similar situation that you are. In the end, even if we were "friends", I didn't want a friendship, I wanted more. What I wanted was not being offered to me, and my behaviour clearly indicated I wanted more. I wasn't what he wanted (friend) and he wasn't what I wanted (more).

So, I severed all ties. For my own peace of mind, and also because I wanted to spend my time in ways that were right for me. It just seemed like an awful waste of energy in the end.

Sure, I cried, and pined. But at the end of the day, when I severed that tie, if he did want me, he would come for me.
He texted occasionally, but nothing more than before, so I had no reason to re-initiate contact - nothing had changed.

It is easier to move on when you see things more coldly and =perhaps selfishly: "Am I actually getting what I want here, or am I settling for less, selling myself short?"

posted July 31, 2015 02:15 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:

Some healthy narcissism can help

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posted July 31, 2015 02:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
I am not sharing an opinion on the OP.

Relationships are a deep interest of mine, in a psychological sense. I just wanted to say it was very refreshing to read this post. Gender differences, no matter how small or relative they may be, are really in force at the crossroads of commitment.

That is when I have seen all the behaviours that are regarded as undesirable in men and women, right at that point of potential.

Also, the post about fear was great to read, because I believe it is fear that strikes right at this point of "will we/won't we".

Anyway, great reading Leeloo and Hypatia, really resonated with what I have found through experience/study.

OP, I have experienced a similar situation that you are. In the end, even if we were "friends", I didn't want a friendship, I wanted more. What I wanted was not being offered to me, and my behaviour clearly indicated I wanted more. I wasn't what he wanted (friend) and he wasn't what I wanted (more).

So, I severed all ties. For my own peace of mind, and also because I wanted to spend my time in ways that were right for me. It just seemed like an awful waste of energy in the end.

Sure, I cried, and pined. But at the end of the day, when I severed that tie, if he did want me, he would come for me.
He texted occasionally, but nothing more than before, so I had no reason to re-initiate contact - nothing had changed.

It is easier to move on when you see things more coldly and =perhaps selfishly: "Am I actually getting what I want here, or am I settling for less, selling myself short?"

Some healthy narcissism can help

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posted July 31, 2015 02:20 PM            

quote:

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I'm not changing the portrait. Because I said we didn't have sex that changes the portrait? Well we DID NOT have sex... and I never said we did... you just assumed.

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posted July 31, 2015 02:22 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by stillatlarge:
[QUOTE]

I'm not changing the portrait. Because I said we didn't have sex that changes the portrait? Well we DID NOT have sex... and I never said we did... you just assumed.

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Made my day, Girl. )

posted July 31, 2015 02:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by confused_libra:
Thanks. I understand what you are saying. My issue is that I have not expressed I wanted more. We both kind of express it in our own, subtle ways and then kind of step back. If that makes sense.. But I need to directly tell him I want more, and if he agrees, then awesome. If not, then that's still good because I've spent 4 years wondering and I'm sick of it! Although 4 years ago I expressed I wanted to be with him, and he agreed, and we dated for a few months. But I broke up with him because it was long distance at the time and we were really immature. Now that we are close in proximity again, I think we should give it a real shot and see what happens.

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posted July 31, 2015 02:36 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by confused_libra:

I'm not changing the portrait. Because I said we didn't have sex that changes the portrait? Well we DID NOT have sex... and I never said

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See it's things like this, which lead to misunderstandings.

confused_libra, if you told anyone you know; that you slept with an individual of the opposite sex. 95% of the time, they'll think you had sex too. Maybe point out the smaller detail in future better. Seeing as you are very into this guy, anyone even me assumed you had some action too.

I hope everything works out for you!

posted July 31, 2015 02:42 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Sven555:
See it's things like this, which lead to misunderstandings.

confused_libra, if you told anyone you know; that you slept with an individual of the opposite sex. 95% of the time, they'll think you had sex too. Maybe point out the smaller detail in future better. Seeing as you are very into this guy, anyone even me assumed you had some action too.

I hope everything works out for you!

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Sorry for the misunderstanding. I guess I just didn't really think it mattered? Sex or no sex, you're still getting something out of being around a person. So I just get confused when people think he's using me if we have sex, but if we don't have sex, then he's not using me? But isn't everyone using everyone? Because we all get something out of friendships/relationships that we like and we keep coming back for, whether that be sex or cuddling or affection or good conversation or fun, etc.etc. Even people we consider our best friends, aren't we "using" them because we get happiness out of their company?

posted July 31, 2015 02:54 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by confused_libra:
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I guess I just didn't really think it mattered? Sex or no sex, you're still getting something out of being around a person. So I just get confused when people think he's using me if we have sex, but if we don't have sex, then he's not using me? But isn't everyone using everyone? Because we all get something out of friendships/relationships that we like and we keep coming back for, whether that be sex or cuddling or affection or good conversation or fun, etc.etc. Even people we consider our best friends, aren't we "using" them because we get happiness out of their company?

Sorry to get all philosophical I just don't understand the notion that if you are hanging out with someone who then sleeps over, if they have sex with you, they are "using" or "taking advantage"; but if we don't have sex, it's all good? I don't know. Hope this makes sense.

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Lol, I see where your coming from when you say that!!
To an extent yes, you could call it using others when you get your emotional needs met by them but the difference is in the give and take.
If your giving and he's not giving back your being used. If he's giving and your not giving back your using him. If your both giving and giving back...that's feeding each other and healthy.

And I'm not sure of your age but yes, typically when you say he stayed the night or slept over it's assumed sex happened. That's probably more of society's issue programming us to think SEX is all that matters and what must happen when 2 ppl get alone for a night...that's unfortunate for us as a society because we take the innocence and beauty out of a potential friendship and the ability to feed each other's souls without sex and replace it with something primal and if not treated correctly cold and harmful.

posted July 31, 2015 03:16 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Lol, I see where your coming from when you say that!!
To an extent yes, you could call it using others when you get your emotional needs met by them but the difference is in the give and take.
If your giving and he's not giving back your being used. If he's giving and your not giving back your using him. If your both giving and giving back...that's feeding each other and healthy.

And I'm not sure of your age but yes, typically when you say he stayed the night or slept over it's assumed sex happened. That's probably more of society's issue programming us to think SEX is all that matters and what must happen when 2 ppl get alone for a night...that's unfortunate for us as a society because we take the innocence and beauty out of a potential friendship and the ability to feed each other's souls without sex and replace it with something primal and if not treated correctly cold and harmful.

I would say next time, maybe, specify a little bit more so those of us who's brains automatically go to the negative side of "staying the night/sleeping over" can have enough information to understand what your describing with better accuracy.

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I am 23. So, I get it. I mean, yes we have had sex in the past but not recently. We are still affectionate. He cuddles me all night, strokes my hair, and kisses me goodbye which I love.

posted July 31, 2015 05:15 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Voix_de_la_Mer:
I am not sharing an opinion on the OP.

Relationships are a deep interest of mine, in a psychological sense. I just wanted to say it was very refreshing to read this post. Gender differences, no matter how small or relative they may be, are really in force at the crossroads of commitment.

That is when I have seen all the behaviours that are regarded as undesirable in men and women, right at that point of potential.

Also, the post about fear was great to read, because I believe it is fear that strikes right at this point of "will we/won't we".

Anyway, great reading Leeloo and Hypatia, really resonated with what I have found through experience/study.

OP, I have experienced a similar situation that you are. In the end, even if we were "friends", I didn't want a friendship, I wanted more. What I wanted was not being offered to me, and my behaviour clearly indicated I wanted more. I wasn't what he wanted (friend) and he wasn't what I wanted (more).

So, I severed all ties. For my own peace of mind, and also because I wanted to spend my time in ways that were right for me. It just seemed like an awful waste of energy in the end.

Sure, I cried, and pined. But at the end of the day, when I severed that tie, if he did want me, he would come for me.
He texted occasionally, but nothing more than before, so I had no reason to re-initiate contact - nothing had changed.

It is easier to move on when you see things more coldly and =perhaps selfishly: "Am I actually getting what I want here, or am I settling for less, selling myself short?"

Some healthy narcissism can help

---

Thank you, Voix Sorry for that experience

posted July 31, 2015 05:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by stillatlarge:
Kinda makes sense with that nutty 'they're most turned on when you're not' thing with them.

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posted August 01, 2015 08:35 AM            

Yes I remember the Sex in the City episode and the film which amusingly went back on it's own premise, because that concept IS a premise and not a reality.

I've been pursued in that way. I call it stalking, I have had men become obsessed and email me constantly, or phone me everyday, turning up where I am all the time. Strangely enough I haven't found that attractive at all. Interestingly I have found that those men didn't care one iota about me, only winning the race.

When a man loves you he doesn't push or press you, he smiles when he sees you, he gets nervous when you unexpectedly walk into a room. He remembers what you say to him, teases you about your quirks, listens to your deep beliefs and finds out what really matters to you.

I've had two relationships which worked beautifully and both were with men who didn't pursue me and I didn't pursue them. Things just fall into place when they're meant to because your thoughts are aligned so each step of getting together is a waltz.

Libra - I say please do try to focus on yourself and being the best version of YOU, you can be. We always find the right person appears when we are shining our truest selves. Until you get this guy out of your system you shouldn't be with another. Who knows what the deeper message is here, maybe you've been together in other lives and there is karma to work out. If you've both loved one another *actually* then that love won't have gone away. If he really was in love with you a part of him will still be. I've never met a man with a great heart who has a duplicitous heart.

What do you want for your life? Do you want a family and marriage? Or do you want to explore everything? Are you on a spiritual path, or are you living on a more earthy career based life?

If you want children soon, then sure do what most people do. Find a man who ticks all the boxes and is predictably stable and settle down. If you don't care so much, explore your soul, feel the real love and who cares about time or outcomes. Most people don't ever experience it at all!!

Self respect is about listening to who you are and NOBODY else where it comes to your journey.

posted August 01, 2015 08:40 AM            

Most people aren't intending to be malicious, they're just doing the best they can to get through.

posted August 01, 2015 01:09 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by waxlobster:
This is the modern view:
"If a man is into a woman he pursues her until he wins her, if a man doesn't do this then he's just not that into her."

Yes I remember the Sex in the City episode and the film which amusingly went back on it's own premise, because that concept IS a premise and not a reality.

I've been pursued in that way. I call it stalking, I have had men become obsessed and email me constantly, or phone me everyday, turning up where I am all the time. Strangely enough I haven't found that attractive at all. Interestingly I have found that those men didn't care one iota about me, only winning the race.

When a man loves you he doesn't push or press you, he smiles when he sees you, he gets nervous when you unexpectedly walk into a room. He remembers what you say to him, teases you about your quirks, listens to your deep beliefs and finds out what really matters to you.

I've had two relationships which worked beautifully and both were with men who didn't pursue me and I didn't pursue them. Things just fall into place when they're meant to because your thoughts are aligned so each step of getting together is a waltz.

Libra - I say please do try to focus on yourself and being the best version of YOU, you can be. We always find the right person appears when we are shining our truest selves. Until you get this guy out of your system you shouldn't be with another. Who knows what the deeper message is here, maybe you've been together in other lives and there is karma to work out. If you've both loved one another *actually* then that love won't have gone away. If he really was in love with you a part of him will still be. I've never met a man with a great heart who has a duplicitous heart.

What do you want for your life? Do you want a family and marriage? Or do you want to explore everything? Are you on a spiritual path, or are you living on a more earthy career based life?

If you want children soon, then sure do what most people do. Find a man who ticks all the boxes and is predictably stable and settle down. If you don't care so much, explore your soul, feel the real love and who cares about time or outcomes. Most people don't ever experience it at all!!

Self respect is about listening to who you are and NOBODY else where it comes to your journey.

'Civilisation' has unlearned all my parents generation knew so well about love...

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Wow. Beautiful post. It really uplifted me.

I know it is self-serving, but I totally agree with your thoughts on this. I go by how I feel and what my intuition tells me, not how many boxes I can check off about a guy.

My greatest fear is ending up with someone who checks off all the boxes. I have met certain guys who are attractive, nice, have a good job, stable, etc. but they don't really excite me.

I want someone who mentally stimulates me and ties my stomach up in knots all the time, even though it's been 4 years of this. He makes me feel like I'm in high school feeling all these new feelings for the first time again. Every time I see him, it feels like the first time if that makes sense.

I know he's not perfect and in the past we had a lot of rocky times. But I see how much he has matured in just the past year. Seeing him mature and grow makes me love him more.

Even if it means I have to wonder what he's thinking or what he's doing or when I will next see him, it all ends up worth it when I finally do.

Although, I don't want to go on this way forever. That's why I think it's time to stop being dishonest with him and tell him how I feel and make an effort. It might all come crashing down, but that is preferable than continuing to have my guard up and treat him as if I couldn't care less about him.

He does pursue me, but not in that hard-core stalker way, which I see as a good thing. And I agree, the modern way of thinking that a man must always pursue the woman is ******** . After 4 years, especially. The woman needs to put in work too. Men are human as well, they have their own insecurities. If I were him, I personally would believe I was not interested. I'm surprised he didn't give up on me sooner, considering I've treated him as if I don't give a **** if I ever see him again for the past 2 years. I mean, I've always engaged him in conversation when he initiates and I never really turn him down for a date, but I don't ever ask him out or try to start a conversation. From his perspective, he probably thinks he is bothering me.

So, thanks for your post. I'm going to let my guard down and see what he thinks the next time I see him, which probably won't be for a month since he is out of the country for the next few weeks for work. But I am going to focus the next few weeks on bettering myself (working out hardcore) and getting to a place where I will be able to articulate my feelings in the best way possible.

posted August 01, 2015 05:02 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by waxlobster:
That's all you can do - be yourself, express it and be true to your heart too. I resonate with your reticence because I've experienced similar things but what I do believe it is that love is the most important thing ALWAYS. It's what we're here for, it's the only thing that we look back on when we reflect on our lives.

Our egos and our pride are not what we care so much about, it's about those beautiful people that touch our hearts.... So I wish you all the best with that, and faith in that too and I will dip in here again in a few weeks to see what transpires as I feel this could be a magical venus retrograde outcome.. :-)

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aww thank you!!

on that venus retrograde note, I feel like it's the opposite! I guess I don't know much about venus retrograde but couldn't it mean it's a time for endings and closure? I seriously hope not but I'm not for sure what it means. I feel like we won't talk for a few weeks since he will be overseas although hopefully he will send me a postcard like he said.