posted November 20, 2015 07:15 PM            

Just one of the things I wonder about (and I mention it because of how that video ends) on the side (as I can't know by searching myself, and I know better than to ask others who could say as they're rarely able to be honest about it or have never thought about it enough to articulate it) is if Christian Grey in 50 Shades of Grey got away with a lot of outrageous behavior (far worse, downright felonious in the bestselling novel) not only for his looks, but also because he was raining down over the top (and even difficult for billionaires to get) gifts down on Anna/reader (even if he'd like sell her old car before buying her a new one without telling her), that is perhaps the ultimate sugar daddy. (I'm certain that if Grey was some lower class guy who looked like Homer Simpson but otherwise acted the same, that it would be considered a horror story rather than fantasy.) Such an observation was made here:
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-daum-50-shades-of-grey-20150212-column.html

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The question of whether the South is kinkier than the rest of the country is not one for which there's a great deal of hard data. But we do know it's the poorest region in the nation, with Mississippi and Arkansas consistently ranking at the bottom.

More important, though, readers of "Fifty Shades of Grey" (as opposed to those who comment without reading, which admittedly was me until recently) know that for all the libidinous hype, the book is ultimately less about sex and power than about money and power. For every reference to handcuffs and inner goddesses, there are even more nods to Christian's incalculable wealth.

Christian gives a lot of spankings, but he also gives his submissive lady love a MacBook computer, rides on his private jet and several cars. For his part, when he's not being chauffeured in an Audi Q7 SUV, he's driving his Audi R8 Spyder or squiring Ana around in his helicopter. Oh, and we're told he earns $100,000 per hour. Which at this point may put him in the ballpark of the book's author, E.L. James.

Are you aroused yet? If you already have an Audi — or any reasonable hope of someday acquiring one — it's easy to roll your eyes. But if you're a PTA mom moonlighting as a stripper, you might be downright weak in the knees by now

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There is an element of fantasy there common to many, but it has always struck me as a natural outgrowth of being told to expect the Prince (even if he comes in the form of a Beast first, who must be endured to prove your worth, or if in more sophisticated romance stories the heroine/reader "doesn't care about his money" and yet by the end he's rich as he marries her) ever since a little girl. Heck, when I was growing up girls were told it was "just as easy to fall in love with a rich guy rather than poor guy" (not really true when you consider the social dynamics involved) because one should aspire to wealth. The point being that we're encouraged to incorporate that into our romantic ideals, and though a sugar daddy isn't exactly the same thing (though that's what Christian Grey strikes me as), such a man who has money to throw around for a fling rather than investing in his future (mother of his children) doesn't seem an unlikely fantasy.

I'm thinking of watching Pretty Woman (another hit at the box office in its day) just to explore the appeal of it now.

posted November 20, 2015 07:25 PM            

Pixie, I love how you underlined the romanticized (and more than often unrealistic) Prince/Pretty Woman ingrained archetype, so brilliant! I just hate it when someone comes and says previous posts are worthless and derailed while making a very similar post.

GeminiBlues, Saturn square Neptune brilliant!

posted November 20, 2015 07:34 PM            

But what I do remember from the aforementioned modern masterpiece which could be useful to this topic is when Pretty Woman's friend (see, I can't remember her name) goaded Pretty Woman into believing that the whole situation is something worth believing in... Pretty Woman says - "Gimme one name" and the friend goes "Goooood, a name... The pressure of the name... Cinda-fukcing-rella!"

The quote I believe ties in well with your observations, PixieJane, and with that of the OP - regarding the societal context and acceptance ... And OP's astrological situation, obvs:

posted November 20, 2015 09:02 PM            

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Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:

It's disheartening to see so many people encouraging a person to "sell themselves", their gender characteristics, in a personal context. (not professional, such as modelling)

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Hi LeeLoo,

I did not imply that geisha is "beautiful" in any such way. I brought this example up to counter other's claims that the OP was expected to have sex.

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A man paying a woman for her company IS a sexual favor (+ domination trick). Why not paying for a man then? They can be great company for a guy, much better, lots of entertaining refreshing guy talk.

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Many Europeans and Americans confuse geishas as a form of prostitution. Japanese are pretty adamant that it is not the same. They are expected to perform (with dancing and music) but not in a sexual manner. There are also male geishas, but generally females are better known.

Anyways, this is not the topic of the OP's thread.

posted November 21, 2015 02:15 AM            

Of course, there is a certain mystique of femininity male fascination in it, if you insist, but it's mostly about objectification and serving. Many had sex with their customers, but it's less important, what they did is part of sexual favors anyway (female entertainer for male customer).

In the early stages of Japanese history, there were female entertainers: saburuko (serving girls) were mostly wandering girls whose families were displaced from struggles in the late 600s.[6] Some of these saburuko girls sold sexual services, while others with a better education made a living by entertaining at high-class social gatherings. After the imperial court moved the capital to Heian-kyō (Kyoto) in 794 the conditions that would form Japanese Geisha culture began to emerge, as it became the home of a beauty-obsessed elite.[6] Skilled female performers, such as Shirabyōshi dancers, thrived.

Traditional Japan embraced sexual delights (it is not a Shinto taboo) and men were not constrained to be faithful to their wives. The ideal wife was a modest mother and manager of the home; by Confucian custom love had secondary importance. For sexual enjoyment and romantic attachment, men did not go to their wives, but to courtesans. Walled-in pleasure quarters known as yūkaku (遊廓、遊郭?) were built in the 16th century,[7] and in 1617 the shogunate designated "pleasure quarters", outside of which prostitution would be illegal,[8] and within which "yūjo" ("play women") would be classified and licensed. The highest yūjo class was the Geisha's predecessor, called "Tayuu", a combination of actress and prostitute, originally playing on stages set in the dry Kamo riverbed in Kyoto. They performed erotic dances and skits, and this new art was dubbed kabuku, meaning "to be wild and outrageous". The dances were called "kabuki," and this was the beginning of kabuki theater.[8]
18th-century emergence of the "geisha"
Ukiyoe depicting a Gion geisha, from between 1800 and 1833
Ukiyoe print by Yamaguchi Soken of a Kyoto geisha

These pleasure quarters quickly became glamorous entertainment centers, offering more than sex. The highly accomplished courtesans of these districts entertained their clients by dancing, singing, and playing music. Some were renowned poets and calligraphers. Gradually, they all became specialized and the new profession, purely of entertainment, arose. It was near the turn of the eighteenth century that the first entertainers of the pleasure quarters, called geisha, appeared. The first geishas were men, entertaining customers waiting to see the most popular and gifted courtesans (oiran).[8]

The forerunners of the female geisha were the teenage odoriko ("dancing girls"):[9] expensively trained as chaste dancers-for-hire. In the 1680s, they were popular paid entertainers in the private homes of upper-class samurai,[10] though many had turned to prostitution by the early 18th century. Those who were no longer teenagers (and could no longer style themselves odoriko[11]) adopted other names—one being "geisha", after the male entertainers. The first woman known to have called herself geisha was a Fukagawa prostitute, in about 1750.[12] She was a skilled singer and shamisen-player named Kikuya who was an immediate success, making female geisha extremely popular in 1750s Fukagawa.[13] As they became more widespread throughout the 1760s and 1770s, many began working only as entertainers (rather than prostitutes) often in the same establishments as male geisha.[14]
Rise of the geisha
Tokyo geisha with shamisen, circa 1870s

The geisha who worked within the pleasure quarters were essentially imprisoned and strictly forbidden to sell sex in order to protect the business of the Oiran. While licensed courtesans existed to meet men's sexual needs, machi geisha carved out a separate niche as artists and erudite female companions.[15]

By 1800, being a geisha was considered a female occupation (though there are still a handful of male geisha working today). Eventually, the gaudy Oiran began to fall out of fashion, becoming less popular than the chic ("iki") and modern geisha.[8] By the 1830s, the evolving geisha style was emulated by fashionable women throughout society.[16] There were many different classifications and ranks of geisha. Some women would have sex with their male customers, whereas others would entertain strictly with their art forms.[17] Prostitution was legal up until the 1900s (decade), so it was practiced in many quarters throughout Japan.

World War II brought a huge decline in the geisha arts because most women had to go to factories or other places to work for Japan. The geisha name also lost some status during this time because prostitutes began referring to themselves as "geisha girls" to American military men.[18] In 1944, the geisha world, including the teahouses, bars and geisha houses, was forced to close, and all employees were put to work in factories. About a year later, they were allowed to reopen. The few women who returned to the geisha areas decided to reject Western influence and revert to traditional ways of entertainment and life. "The image of the geisha was formed during Japan's feudal past, and this is now the image they must keep in order to remain geisha".[18] It was up to these returning geisha to bring back traditional standards in the profession, though with increased rights for the geisha

I think apart from what Pixie describes, the archetype of the Prince/ hot Santa Claus savior, the archetype of the female being a hostess, escort, the hordes of half-naked pretty girls serving as props and status symbol (such as the supermarket promotions, videos, lots of advertisements - such as the hot babe at the car show) is still so much ingrained in the public's mind as being natural and normal, that its origin of female objectification, serving and the extension of what sexual favors mean seems to go undetected, which leads to occasionally romanticizing gender biased societies symbols (historical, such as the geisha, or not).

posted November 21, 2015 08:45 AM            

Thanks for the article, it's interesting that men were the original geishas.

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the archetype of the female being a hostess, escort, the hordes of half-naked pretty girls serving as props and status symbol (such as the supermarket promotions, videos, lots of advertisements - such as the hot babe at the car show) is still so much ingrained in the public's mind as being natural and normal, that its origin of female objectification, serving and the extension of what sexual favors mean seems to go undetected, which leads to occasionally romanticizing gender biased societies symbols (historical, such as the geisha, or not).

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I think America is different from Europe with this. Possibly because of America's "puritanical roots" and lingering Christianity.

I know beer commercials and posters tend to have mostly-naked women...but beyond that? I can't think of anything that gets promoted with explicit female sexuality here (apart from the sex industry itself.)

My German friend told me that half-naked women are all over the auto parts catalogs over there.

posted November 21, 2015 10:29 AM            

[quote]

Usually I would agree with you, but I don't think it is a matter of putting down one gender over the other. The meaning of geishas changed once Japan was forced out of isolation, because people who weren't familiar with the culture related them to courtesans / prostitutes. It's primarily an art performance, and according to the same logic, female pop stars and movie stars who play up to certain archetypes or use their beauty are being objectified as well.

posted November 21, 2015 12:17 PM            

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Originally posted by Piscean Tigress:
Where is your Lilith Asteroid and what is aspecting?

And your Neptune is prominent? A strong Neptune tends to project other's fantasies.

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posted November 21, 2015 07:25 PM            

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Originally posted by Nine:
Venus.

Libra, Taurus, & Capricorn.

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posted November 21, 2015 07:43 PM            

If you like his personality and actually want to spend time with him, then maybe you should - let him know - you're happy to be friends, without any financial agreements.

If he bothers you and makes you uncomfortable so you would prefer not to spend time with him - then it's probably best you leave this situation.

Based on the synastry only - imo - the best way to use this relationship for personal development... is to *learn* from him, and take his advice in your future career... not to place him in a "sugar daddy" role.

Quite apart from any ethical issues that anyone has mentioned... you do have North Node in Capricorn!
Ruled by Saturn in Aquarius.

So, in this lifetime - it's part of your spiritual journey to move from being financially dependent to being financially independent - and from the "homemaker" role (Cancer SN) to the career-oriented role (Capricorn NN/6th house).

It's always easier to stay with the South Node, because that is our comfort zone... You also have a Cancer Mars (which is joined by his Cancer Moon and Mars in synastry).
So there is a big pull here towards - past life comfort... that may feel nice enough, but that is still not good for you - and does not lead to soul growth for you.

His earthy placements - the Taurus stellium and Jupiter in Virgo - could be great for you to keep as a "connection".
These placements can help you move towards your earthy North Node.

You should learn how he made his wealth in life, and what steps he took in his career. Having your Mars signs conjunct, his advice on 'how to get ahead' and make a fortune - could be just perfect for you.
And it would be much more useful to you longterm, than this "sugar daddy" arrangement.

Also, instead of asking him for something like beautiful jewellery... perhaps you could ask him to help you out by funding a new business idea you have?
That's the sort of thing I have in mind for your relationship - based on the synastry.
And of course he would get his own share of the profits (to keep things fair and square, and non-sugardaddy-like)

In a nutshell:
Stay friends only! Tell him to keep his money!
Then... use him... as a business and career connection.

posted November 22, 2015 01:39 PM            

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Originally posted by wheresthemoon:

What in the natal chart or by transit would indicate someone being willing to do this, or this happening to someone just off the top of your head?
Please no judgment! This is just my life right now.

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