posted November 20, 2015 01:51 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by wheresthemoon:
Some very generous. But the whole thing just seemed too weird to me until probably last week when someone offered me a dollar amount to meet them and I took it.

We met and he spoiled me the whole time. Took me to a nice restaurant, took me shopping, and gave me the promised money. The whole thing just seems surreal...that someone would give me money just to spend time with them. And that's truly all it was, other than a small kiss. He wants to have an "arrangement" where we do this a few times a month.

What in the natal chart or by transit would indicate someone being willing to do this, or this happening to someone just off the top of your head? tJupiter is trine my natal Venus and sextile my natal Pluto, which stood out to me.

---

I ask out of curiosity, not an interrogation...

Do men usually pay for your way when you go on dates, or do you normally go dutch? If he normally pays your way, then why does this feel weird to you? And what motivated this change to use such a site?

If you normally go dutch (or "cheap dates"), did that bother you? Did you think the man should take you on fancy dates and pay your way because it makes you feel like a beauty queen, and this way he does?

From an astrological perspective, I think your motivation is what matters. Of course it could just be you like novelty, and this is the latest form, and that would be reflected elsewhere in the chart.

And same for the men involved. Some like giving money because to them it gives them power, you are obligated, and if you become dependent on it then he can threaten to take it away. Others just love to give, they want to be Santa Clause who makes you smile, it gives them the warm fuzzies (funny thing about Santa, scramble the words and it spells "satan" ). And others still like to be humiliated by being the fool (it's a fetish called "financial domination," AKA "findom"), that is he would view you as a type of dominatrix. His motivation, more than his action, is what I'd want to know if I were to look for it in his chart.

posted November 20, 2015 03:34 AM            

If anyone is interested… (Women especially).

I wrote an essay on SPITR that examines some of these issues about a similar topic with regards to Beauty+Power in a Corporate Environment.

SPITR 18s+ : Grimoires of a Geisha

posted November 20, 2015 07:42 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by athenegoddess:
As I already mentioned this isn't a moral job that is looked down from God with admiration. A normal job is exchanging your skills for money. What skills is she exactly exchanging here? Is it something that is actually hers to give?

She is exchanging her 'looks' for money. If she was unattractive would this man be interested?

Likewise if he didn't have money would she be interested?

She is exchanging her gift of feminine beauty for money that was given to her by God to go to her true love.

This isn't true love. In the end someone will get hurt.

---

I didn't realize I was speaking to God's mouthpiece😱 please just stop. I 100% don't care what your thoughts are on the morality of what I'm doing. The question was and remains about astrology.

posted November 20, 2015 08:21 AM            

However it does irk me A LOT certain posts made here evoking the name of "God" and "evil". Such apparent high moral comments and are the first ones to judge someone. I don't think God judges anyone, in fact He and She loves everyone equally no matter how different we are and no matter how different our choices are, yet spiritual inflated egos tend to use the word God to mask their own arrogance.
And if there was a God that is judgmental and discriminating, I certainly would not care much about such deity.

wheresthemoon, I am not going to defend you nor condemn you, I will keep my personal opinion to myself.

Astrology wise, Pluto seems to be doing it, he is the God of the Underworld and related to everything who is taboo (as well as 8th house).
You said yourself in your first post "tPluto is exact with my eighth house ruler (Uranus)"
Uranus also empathizes what is different, out of the norm and possibly shocking.

Pluto is in Capricorn and it is bringing you resources and a certain status through 8th house matters; other peoples money more specifically here.

posted November 20, 2015 08:32 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Yes, it is. Selling your professional skills and time is one thing, selling your sex (gender) in personal contexts is a form of prostitution and a downward spiral.

---

I don't believe in "forms of prostitution" really. You are either a prostitute or not.

Women sell their gender all the time.

Modelling, for instance. Please don't tell me that's a skill.

posted November 20, 2015 08:33 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by wheresthemoon:
I'm about to say something weird but...
I love you❤️ Lol

---

posted November 20, 2015 08:36 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by athenegoddess:
So you are putting a price on your time and you cost money to spend time with?

That's kind of evil.

---

You have to be the rudest member here.

Honestly.

posted November 20, 2015 08:56 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I don't believe in "forms of prostitution" really. You are either a prostitute or not.

Women sell their gender all the time.

Modelling, for instance. Please don't tell me that's a skill.

Even in the corporate sphere, it's a big factor. Did you know pharmaceutical companies actively recruit college cheerleaders? Everything women do can be sexualized or "tainted" with a bias towards beauty.

---

"Prostitution" in a more general sense. It's not restricted to the genitals only.

Everything women do shouldn't be sexualized, if we don't consider ourselves a sexual object only.

So faking relationships with people, faking emotions, interest, attraction, love, on both sides, because they are rich and buy you a tote, or a bike, or a house, or a car, or a life is OK?

I'm quite puzzled by this conversation.

posted November 20, 2015 09:01 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Odette:
It depends on how quickly the work is available.
You could leave an abusive marriage with your two kids and be on the streets eating from bins - in the middle of winter.

^ I'd prefer that person to find a sugar daddy.

---

Sorry wheresthemoon I don't have much to say about your situation. I just want to pop in and say that I agree with Odette here.

I worked in cases where people were wrecked with poverty. By "poverty", I mean third world country, not a piece of fabric on their backs. "Work" isn't always available, the pay isn't always enough to make a living.

posted November 20, 2015 09:28 AM            

Yes. We would have to agree to disagree.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I don't look down on people.

---

I did see your comment in that way, at the beginning when I replied to this thread.

I'm sorry for thinking that way. I see now that you don't.

posted November 20, 2015 10:02 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
"Prostitution" in a more general sense. It's not restricted to the genitals only.

---

I don't get it.

To me, that's like saying "murder" in a more general sense...because you can kill one's spirit, or kill the dream, or feed them junk food and that is also murder....

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Everything women do shouldn't be sexualized, if we don't consider ourselves a sexual object only.

---

True, but is all sexualization bad, if there is a monetary compensation?

Then women would be in trouble. Frankly most women in the public eye are expected to be sexy. Actresses, newscasters, TV chefs, athletes, lawyers...I already mentioned the sales reps for Big Pharma.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
So faking relationships with people, faking emotions, interest, attraction, love, on both sides, because they are rich and buy you a tote, or a bike, or a house, or a car, or a life is OK?

---

Whoever said anything about that? We are talking about making commercial agreements in an explicit sense. There is no cunning when both people know the terms.

But really, if a guy took you on a shopping spree and treated you like a princess would you have to fake kindness in return?

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I'm quite puzzled by this conversation.

---

Me, too.

I think, because we are not familiar with the concept of men paying a woman just to spend time with him, we try and understand it by comparing it to other things we know more about and have fixed judgments about. But it's not the same as those other things. It's new and different.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
How can be selling yourself as a girlfriend, wife, companion, friend, shopping display, sex object be OK? How does this promote self-esteem, respect and freedom in women? (and also men)

---

Well, all of those are different matters, and I have not addressed them here. And they are off topic.

But, let me just ask you: how does it promote freedom to say women cannot use their beauty for money? If a woman can make herself beautiful, is skilled with cosmetology and hairdressing, wardrobe and presentation, why are these lesser skills than other things she might do artistically, and reputably?

posted November 20, 2015 10:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by 12muddy:
In the time when they can't find work, and have nothing but their body, then selling themselves isn't something that should be looked down upon. It's the last resort - a way to survive.

---

posted November 20, 2015 10:18 AM            

Why would it be OK for a human being to pay another human being for personal company (personal relationships?, sex or no sex, it doesn't matter)

I am not talking about massage, learning a foreign language etc.
You can't compare personal relationships with professional relationships. I mean you can do it, but why would you?

Buying personal relationships = faking them.

Why would a stranger, a man, if it's not someone very close, family, a friend who just won the lottery, my boyfriend (in which case I like to do the same, spoil him the same way one day, we take turns with that) invite me to shop on his account? But here, it is not just about that, Santa Claus, it's about selling your company.

What kind of relationship is this, from the personal relationships POV?

I may be wrong, but I know prostitution in English is not related to sex only, as term, It also refers to selling parts of yourself which are not for sale (such as your personal company, as a friend, girlfriend or substitute) and generally doing unhealthy, or dubious, or anything, for money. The generalized, metaphoric term of prostitution.

I am an anti-prostitution "militant', I am against excessive materialism, obsession for money, shopping, things, it's best to have less than have it in shady conditions. The issue of selling one's soul for money, goods, favors DOES exist (not religiously of course, geez, no, gaah), but psychologically, practically and energetically. I am not going to encourage it or treat it casually as a a form of "diversity" and "tolerance".
I also have strong opinions against people buying other people or people selling themselves.

posted November 20, 2015 10:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Faith, my dear, why are you so provocative with me and twisting things so much?

---

Because I love you. You always exasperate the one you love.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Why would it be OK for a human being to pay another human being for personal company (personal relationships?, sex or no sex, it doesn't matter)

---

Because people are interesting. They have all kinds of things to offer. If you are busy and can't make time to sit across from me, and let me watch all the curious movements of your face, take interest in how you eat, hear your laugh, see if I can get a genuine laugh out of you....maybe I can make it worth your time by paying you? And then you are not my prostitute, you are my entertainer, my therapist, my aromatherapist if you wore your particular, haunting scent...you are my school as I learn from you about people like you...as I learn from you what I like and what I don't, through close evaluation.

I'm talking to you as if you are Tom Hardy.

Your birthdays are close you know.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I am not talking about massage, learning a foreign language etc.
You can't compare personal relationships with professional relationships. I mean you can do it, but why would you?

---

Why would I want to get paid to be me?

Why wouldn't I??

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
...it's about selling your company.

---

*rubs fingers together and dreams of wealth*
Honestly people have told me my company IS worth money. They say, I could be a counselor. A listener. If I were a beautiful listener, and there is commercial potential in it....

Oh god I really AM such a Capricorn.

Forgive me, Lee.

Hugs.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
I may be wrong, but I know prostitution in English is not related to sex only, as term, It also refers to selling parts of yourself which are not for sale (such as your personal company, as a friend, girlfriend or substitue) and generally doing unhealthy, or dubious, or anything, for money. The generalized, metaphoric term of prostitution.

---

I think some people's company is worth money and I would pay for it. I do. I throw dinner parties.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Besides, you're totally romanticizing this story and I don't know why. Neptune strikes or what? For some reason, you seem to believe that man just wants her company, and that this is something new and cool, while it dates 40,000 years back.

---

Why can't he just want her company? Why is that impossible to you?

He may just want to take her time. (Great song.)

posted November 20, 2015 11:07 AM            

EDIT: sweet song thank you!

posted November 20, 2015 11:49 AM            

I also have a friend who turned to prostitution to survive when she was younger. She's the sweetest person I know, and she speaks out against it.

posted November 20, 2015 11:50 AM            

Thanks kids.

Neptune just turned direct yesterday and it's already winning.

posted November 20, 2015 12:09 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by teasel:
I've never encountered a situation where sugar babies weren't expected to have sex with the guy.

---

Actually it's extremely common to have situations where the guy is paying for a lot, and expecting sex (eventually) in return. That's the old fashioned way things were done. So...should we look at that?

posted November 20, 2015 02:39 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
Actually it's extremely common to have situations where the guy is paying for a lot, and expecting sex (eventually) in return. That's the old fashioned way things were done. So...should we look at that?

---

No. I'll read the rest of your post in a minute, but I've had the discussion numerous times on another forum. The comparison of dating to prostitution, as well as marriage - no.